Hamas Wins Majority in Elections in Palestine!

[Guest #22]

don't get too upset...Coy is probably not coming back.

[Lawman]

[quote name='#22' post='210066' date='Jan 28 2006, 03:56 PM']don't get too upset...Coy is probably not coming back.[/quote]

[quote]Here is a nice online exhibit about America First and American Involvement.
I realize that we fudge a few things here, but most of what we say is right.
[url="http://holocaustandhumanity.org/chhe_seuss_1.html"]http://holocaustandhumanity.org/chhe_seuss_1.html[/url][/quote]

Pretty Cool, I liked it

The Holocaust in Europe should never be forgotten. But, most americans do not know (care) about the Nanking Massacre. It was very disturbing to comprehend how man can treat their fellow man in those ways.

[Guest #22]

which is precisely why we need to stay out of Iraq. granted, we aren't thowing babies up on bayonets, but we sure aren't making any friends.

[Lawman]

[quote name='#22' post='210136' date='Jan 28 2006, 06:21 PM']which is precisely why we need to stay out of Iraq. granted, we aren't thowing babies up on bayonets, but we sure aren't making any friends.[/quote]

you mean get out , if so I hope we do get out soon. Maybe in a year; but thatcould be wishful thinking.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='#22' post='210136' date='Jan 28 2006, 06:21 PM']which is precisely why we need to stay out of Iraq. granted, we aren't thowing babies up on bayonets, but we sure aren't making any friends.[/quote]

it wouldn't be smart now for anyone to leave w/out the job done... IF you guys were to be right, and things were to spirral downwards, then you guys wouldn't be able to use that for justification, if we didn't finish the job... and then you and others couldn't point to this as a mistake, and have credibility w/ people like me... if we continue to fight, and it doesn't work out, trust me, i will have learned my lesson... although, at this point, i feel we are fighting for a just cause... because if people like myself are right, and this does become a democracy smack in the middle of the middle east, and actually starts to cause a democracization of that area, then everyone will be better off anyways... and it would also be a model for the future... its pretty important to finish imo, for both sides arguements... we are both so dug in right now, that (for instance) i need to see results or lack of results to be sure we are doing the right thing or not... and it seems that its the same for anti-war folks...

what if iraq prospers and succeeds like japan did after wwII? wouldn't that be a good thing for everything, including peace? i think its a war worth finishing, at the very least...

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='209846' date='Jan 27 2006, 11:31 PM'][quote name='Coy Bacon' post='209842' date='Jan 27 2006, 11:25 PM']
[quote name='oldschooler' post='209669' date='Jan 27 2006, 07:25 PM']
[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='209658' date='Jan 27 2006, 05:59 PM']
The U.S. already has dropped a couple of nukes on a country it didn't agree with (I would add that the U.S. had previously backed that country into an attack taht it would have preferred not to have had to make) killing millions.

It's not envy that makes the world loathe and distrust Americans. It's the damned hypocrisy and double standards.[/quote]


Dude are you trying to be a fucking moron ...or does it just come naturally ?

So you`re blaming the U.S. for starting and ending WWll ?

And like it or not...when you`re strong enough to lead...you lead.
You definitely won`t make everyone happy. But you do what
you have to that suits the best interest of your Country, the World and
it`s future generations.




Anyway to stay on topic. Hamas has done more for Palestinians
than their Goverment has. While I can not say the result of
the recent elections please me...they also do not surprise me.

I just hope they don`t think they will gain any support or win
the rights that they want by continuing to go about it the way
they have been going about it. You attract more flies with
honey than with vinegar...
[/quote]

WWII was already started when the US, unable to goad Hitler into attack, used an illegal (as a supposedly neutral country) embargo against the Japanese to pressure them into attack and then left Admiral Kimmel and General Short out of the intelligence loop as the Roosevelt administration watched the Japanese approach Pearl Harbor. Elsewhere, I've posted extensive material on the unneccessary use of nuclear force against Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

All that flowery stuff about leadership is nice - really lovely - although inconsistent with reality - but I'm sure that it makes you feel good.

In light of Arafat's (dubious fat-ass that he appeared to be) previous allegations about where Hamas was getting its funding, it reminds me of George Orwell's observations about the Spanish Civil War in his "Homage to Catalonia," a book that I highly recommend as an insight into the world of Realpolitik.
[/quote]
I suggest you quit reading fantastical portrayals of the human condition and get out there and experience conflict, whether it be violent or not.
Your Ivory Tower of knowledge, insight and wisdom rings hollow to me.
[/quote]

Hew boy! The only thing that rings hollow here is your weak ad hominem attack. Try again.

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='209923' date='Jan 28 2006, 09:19 AM'][quote name='Coy Bacon' post='209842' date='Jan 27 2006, 10:25 PM']
[quote name='oldschooler' post='209669' date='Jan 27 2006, 07:25 PM']
[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='209658' date='Jan 27 2006, 05:59 PM']
The U.S. already has dropped a couple of nukes on a country it didn't agree with (I would add that the U.S. had previously backed that country into an attack taht it would have preferred not to have had to make) killing millions.

It's not envy that makes the world loathe and distrust Americans. It's the damned hypocrisy and double standards.[/quote]


Dude are you trying to be a fucking moron ...or does it just come naturally ?

So you`re blaming the U.S. for starting and ending WWll ?

And like it or not...when you`re strong enough to lead...you lead.
You definitely won`t make everyone happy. But you do what
you have to that suits the best interest of your Country, the World and
it`s future generations.




Anyway to stay on topic. Hamas has done more for Palestinians
than their Goverment has. While I can not say the result of
the recent elections please me...they also do not surprise me.

I just hope they don`t think they will gain any support or win
the rights that they want by continuing to go about it the way
they have been going about it. You attract more flies with
honey than with vinegar...
[/quote]

WWII was already started when the US, unable to goad Hitler into attack, used an illegal (as a supposedly neutral country) embargo against the Japanese to pressure them into attack and then left Admiral Kimmel and General Short out of the intelligence loop as the Roosevelt administration watched the Japanese approach Pearl Harbor. Elsewhere, I've posted extensive material on the unneccessary use of nuclear force against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. [/quote]



Yeah I know that WWll had already started. What I meant was you`re actually
trying to blame the U.S. Government for getting theirsleves involved ?
Reading from your other post I already know the answer.

So don`t bother replying on that topic anymore...

[quote]All that flowery stuff about leadership is nice - really lovely - although inconsistent with reality - but I'm sure that it makes you feel good.

In light of Arafat's (dubious fat-ass that he appeared to be) previous allegations about where Hamas was getting its funding, it reminds me of George Orwell's observations about the Spanish Civil War in his "Homage to Catalonia," a book that I highly recommend as an insight into the world of Realpolitik.[/quote]


"Flowery" ..."makes me feel good"...."inconsistent with reality" ?

I read that Hamas was getting most of their funding from Saudi Arabia.

They only thing I have read or heard about the PLO funding Hamas
was towards the suicide bombers.

And how`s that working for them ? Are they gaining support in their fight from anyone
that isn`t Arab ? Are they getting the rights that they covet and are warranted ?

I think that the Palestinians deserve their own homeland. And I also think that Israel
has every right to exsist as a Nation. And shouldn`t have to live in fear of being
wanted wiped off the face of the Earth by anyone. There should be a middle ground
that both sides should be able to agree on. But the constant attacks and retaliatons
that come from both sides obviously aren`t working ...and will never work.
[/quote]


Yes, "Flowery." At one time, for what it's worth, Arafat actually accused Hamas of receiving funding from the Israelis and being manipulated to thwart the PLO. Maybe he was just nuts or being disingenuous - he certainly had his issues. I just don't happen to give a rat's ass about the Zionist State. They're documented to be a pretty rotten bunch.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060131/cagle00.gif[/img][/center]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060202/oconnor.gif[/img][/center]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/23.gif[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060203/grondahl.jpg[/img][/center]

[Ben]

[img]http://www.votingpurple.com/images/wbs.jpg[/img]

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='209763' date='Jan 27 2006, 10:00 PM']Israel only acquired lands outside their initially drawn boundaries in the 1940's after they were attacked by multiple countries around them, kicked their asses, beat them back AND took some booty (land, like Gaza) for the shits and giggles of it. And now they've given back a portion of it, which puts the Palestinians in a very awkward position, especially now that Hamas has been elected into power....
On a side note, I think I recall you expressing Christian tendencies in another thread. I could be wrong, but if you claim to be so (or are), what explains your low opinion of Israel in terms of biblical references (aka, the Jews as the "chosen" of God)?
And you can't completely blame the Jews as it is in reality. They have fought tooth and nail for every sorry scrap of desert that they currently possess and were "given" by the world at large (UN).
What do you say to that line of thinking?[/quote]

Let's see, the vision of Greater Israel stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates became known to Arabs as early as the 50's. King Saud stated in an interview, for instance, that the Israelis made no secret of it and included it in their school ciriculum. The Greater Israel ambition has been considered with varying degrees of seriousness over time, but it historically was a very serious factor in the development of Arab nations' posture towards the Israelis, threatening as it did Arab territory including the Moslem holy city of Medina. Some have seen a possible revival of the Greater Israel vision now that the so-called neo-cons, who are arguably nothing more than Israeli (Likud) moles, have at least partially succeeded in pushing the United States on a course of further destabilizing the region. The only miracle involved in Israeli military success against the Arabs has been massive military and economic support by the U.S.

The portrayal of Israel as an innocent attacked by its Arab neighbors has been disingenuous. The Israelis invaded the Sinai in the 50's when Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal, and the initiation of the 1967 war has generally been inaccurately presented. Moishe Dayan later reported to a reporter that Israel provoked most of the border clashes with Syria, ordering plowing of disputed territory to advance and not stop until the Syrians became aggravated and started shooting. Then the Israelis would use artillery and air strikes to follow up. The Israelis also provoked Syria by diverting the Jordan in 1964, and then attacked diversion projects built by Syria in response. They shot down Syrian planes and buzzed Damascus with their own planes, and they bombed Egyptian airfields. Israel invaded and captured the Sinai Peninsula and their attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 is believed by some to have been in the interest of trying to prevent the Americans from gaining information about their attempts to capture the Golan Heights.

In reality, the Israelis were "given" that sorry scrap of desert under false pretenses. Contrary to popular wisdom, the Sephardim lived in relative peace along side Moslem and Christian Arabs and other ethnic groups in the Middle East, including Palestine. Where there were clashes, antagonisms were exacerbated by the machinations of the largely Ashkenazi, and also largely non-religious, Zionists. There is the so-called Khazar Question relating to the Ashkenazi, who comprise the vast majority of modern Jews and appear to be descended from the Finno-Turkish Khazars of the Caucasus region rather than from the Hebrews of Biblical fame.

The principle tactic used by the Zionists in fighting tooth and nail for that sorry scrap of desert has been terrorism, which they basically introduced into the proceedings. The target of much of their early terrorist activity was the British. WWII broke out as the Irgun was attempting to wrest concessions from the British to establish the Zionist state. Most of the Irgun sided with the British, but the infamous stern gang, which featured such future Israeli noteworthies as Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, viewed the British mandate as its biggest problem and conducted a terror campaign against the British, even making overtures to the Axis powers, which were declined. The Zionist terror campaing included the famous bombing of the King David Hotel after the war in 1946.

After the UN decision in 1948, which was a poor one, Zionist terrorism even targeted Jews. In places like Iraq and Yemen, where the Sephardim, as previously mentioned, enjoyed relative peace and prosperity, Ashkenazi terrorists bombed synagogues and other targets under false flag to induce Sephardic Jews to feel unsafe in their home countries and emmigrate to Israel. Once there, the Sephardim occupied menial occupations and were harshly discriminated against by the Ashkenazi, being derisively referred to as "Kushim" (the equivalent of "nigger"). I have a friend that lived in Israel for several years and he talked about someone he knew speaking contemptuously of "blacks," which he realized was a reference to the Sephardim. He said that the situation was so bitter that he saw graffiti in Sephardic sections stating, "Hitler should have finished the job."

As conflict with the Palestinians progressed, however, the Sephardim, who are ethnically the same as the Palestinians or other Arabs, Chaldeans, etc., came to be some of the most ardently anti-Palestinian elements in Israel. Mossad has systematically recruited Sephardim to act as sleeper agents among Arabs. The Army war college commented prior to 9/11 about Mossad's propensity and capacity to conduct false-flag terrorist operations and frame Arabs for them. The well-known Lavon affair in the 50's was a case in which the Israelis were busted doing just that when they bombed U.S. run libraries a theater and other sites in Egypt.

Of course, the Zionists also conduct a great deal of terror against Palestinians. The Israelis have conducted numerous massacres against Palestinians since 1948. Many of the victims have been deliberately targeted women, children and old people as well as people engaging in worship. The Israelis want Palestinians to renounce terrorism, but the Israelis started it and have never renounced it. A couple of the more famous massacres are the the massacre in the village of Tantura, which killed upwards of 200 people and the massacre at Dair Yasin in which the Israelis dumped something like 150 corpses, mostly women, children and elderly, in a mass grave. At Tantura, the Israelis lined men up 10 at a time against a wall and shot them and then started killing people house to house, shooting everything that moved. These were just two of several massacres that occurred in 1948, the birth year of the modern Zionist state.
NASER AL-DIN13-14 April 1948

The Zionists in Israel have been so brutal and Nazi-like in their dealings in the Middle East that it has become very difficult to reconcile any of their ostensible Biblical claim on Palestine and supposed protected status with modern reality. Fortunately there are some things to shed light on this. First there is the Khazar question. Then there is the fact that rabbinical Judaism is based on the Talmud, the Zohar and to some extent the Kabalah rather than the Torah or even the prophets. It was largely developed during the Babylonian captivity, under the influence of the Mystery system, and is basically what Yashua (Jesus) railed at the Pharisees and Sadducees about.

In light of or even aside from those two considerations, what I find merciful for me in formulating an attitude toward Jews and Zionism is the fact that there are Jews that vehemently assert that Jewishness and Zionism are not identical. I cannot reconcile any sense of decency, justice or godliness with Zionism as it exists, and fortunately I don't have to. Non-Zionist and anti-Zionist Jews often point out the difference between Talmudic Judaism and the Torah-based faith. They also point to the heavy representation of non-religious and atheistic nominal-ethnic Jews among Zionists.

Some of these Jews take issue with Zionism's claim to advance Jewish security in the world, and the religious among them often take the position that the current Zionist state is NOT the fulfilment of Biblical prophecy regarding a Jewish homeland. They assert that the nature of the current Zionist cause is an act of rebellion that will not stand and only harms the interests of Jews. They also often point to Machiavellian treachery practiced by Zionists against their fellow Jews, particularly during the Holocaust, in the interest of securing their claim to Israel. Another consideration, is the involvement of occultist-leaning Hofjuden figures like the House of Rothschild in the Zionist movement that cloak ulterior spiritual, geo-political and economic motives behind a supposedly Jewish cause. Some of these groups are:

Jews Against Zionism
[url="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/"]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/[/url]

Neturei Kartafrom
[url="http://www.nkusa.org/"]http://www.nkusa.org/[/url]

Jews Not Zionists
[url="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org"]http://www.jewsnotzionists.org[/url]


All this brings to mind the prophetic description attributed to the risen Yashua (Jesus) of those that say they are Jews but are of the synagogue of Satan. I find it quite fortunate that there are those that represent that to be Jewish is not necessarilly to be Zionist. I find the current Zionist state to be a great evil. There are even those Jews that say that it is a counterfeit that should be abolished.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][size=2] Excellent Post Coy ..... [/size] [/b]

[b](you need to apply to my conflict analysis program ... as you seem to have a very intellectually developed and thorough understanding of the conflict .... )[/b]


[quote]The Zionist terror campaing included the famous bombing of the King David Hotel after the war in 1946.[/quote]


[b]yeah the West always seems to forget that the act of using Suicide Bombings in Israel started with the Jews and not the Palestinians.... [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing"]King David - Wikipedia[/url]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/King_david_hotel_bombing.jpg[/img][/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]Also it is my belief that "Terrorists" do not exist .... only tactics. All War is Terror, and the charred body of a young girl takes no comfort in knowing that she accidentally was incenerated by a laser guided bomb from a US Stealth bomber or as a Jewish girl on a Bus in Jersualem blown up by a suicide bomber. What does the West expect Hamas to do ? Man their F16's and take off into the Sky ??? They don't have any ..... Suicide bombing is one of the only means of military combat that they have left ..... and it is no more "terroristic" that shelling a Palestinian city with mortar rounds like the Israelis do ...... [/b]



[size=3][i]I think the following statement accurately describes the thoughts of those Palestinians who turn to using the Suicide Bombings [/i] [/size]


[color="#006600"][size=4][u][quote][img]http://hansbricks.com/images/suicide_bomber.jpg[/img]
You Have Made Me Your Human Bomb
by Edna Yaghi[/u][/size][/color]

[color="#006600"][i]I am the product of your tyranny. You have dissected the leftovers of my country into bits and pieces of shantytowns, ghettoes and concentrations camps. You have cut off my water supply and left me thirsty while you the Israelis bathe in cooled pools not far from where I live. You have uprooted my trees and desecrated my fields making sure I have no way to sustain myself or those who depend on me. You have cut off medical supplies that treat the wounded and at your checkpoints, you detain and humiliate Palestinians and prevent those who are in dire need of medical assistance to pass through causing my people who are your victims to die at your impromptu borders.

You assassinate my freedom fighters while explaining to the world that you are merely defending your own squatters. You shoot to kill little children who in defiance and courage wield small stones in the name of liberty against you the fiercely armed enemy.

You torture the children and resistance fighters you incarcerate and try to bribe or coerce my people into collaborating against one another. You bulldoze homes and you prevent me from earning a living. You kill me by remote control from your US made Apache helicopters and your settlers who squat on what you have left me of my land throw firebombs into my dwellings and on my passageways, attack my children and womenfolk with guns and clubs and hate.

You occupy my land and on my bloodstained hills station your tanks and armored jeeps in order to shoot off one by one little children playing in the streets.

You take over the Orient House, my one symbol of freedom that was donated by a man worth all Israelis, while at the same time you starve the orphans just across the street.

You shoot out my water tanks and you kill off Palestinian servicemen even though at the time of your brutal massacres, these servicemen were patrolling their land or simply eating their last supper. You cut off my electricity so you can assassinate me more easily in the dank shadows of your dark treachery.

You are cowards and you are afraid of little Palestinian children with stones. You never kill them single handedly. You roam in groups like packs of wild dogs and you are just as vicious if not more so.

You leave me and my people without hope and when you have driven me into a corner and deprived me of all that is human, I react with anger and bitterness. I strap explosives onto my body and search for a place to detonate myself. Yes, I kill your civilians, but this is the price you have to pay for taking away my inalienable rights, the rights that all men are entitled to for your demoniacal oppression of my people.

It is really very simple. God created all men equal and no man better than any other. Yet, somehow you have made it your protocol that Jews are better than all others and that you have the right to come to my land committing rape and plunder yet expect me to thank you for doing so.

Just the other day, a young boy was eating lunch. One of your settlers who came from America threw a firebomb into this boy’s house. His two brothers were killed immediately. But the one boy survived horribly disfigured. His name is Amar Emeera. His scars have turned a once beautiful child into a grotesque being that does not even look human. What did this child do to go through life so horribly disfigured?

You shoot babies point blank while swaddled in their parent’s arms in Palestinian cars going to weddings. You slay Palestinian children going to and from school and you slaughter Palestinian children when they fight your armies with their bare hands. One such child, Mohammed Abu Arrar was shot down and killed when he protested your occupation of his land. Palestinian relatives of the boy kissed his body laid out in his coffin before he was taken away to be buried in the Gaza Strip.

You kill unarmed Palestinian fathers on their way to buy school supplies and books for their children. You have even run out of excuses for the atrocities you continue to perpetrate. You shell the homes of Palestinian families, instantly killing the occupants and then claim that the action was friendly fire from the Palestinians even though the homes were far removed from the scene of the battle and even though remnants of your American made shells are scattered about the demolished homes of the innocent.

You collectively punish 3 million Palestinians half of whom are children who reside on what is left of their own land though you know full well that their only desire is to free themselves from your barbaric cruelty.

You tell the world that you want peace yet at every corner, at every instance, you are as far from peace as the earth is from a different universe speeding in an opposite direction.

You speak peace with the forked tongues of your warmongers and then pretend shock when finally a Palestinian human bomb blows himself up.

You will only be free of the threat of human bombs when you seek a just and comprehensive peace and when you end your occupation of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine.[/i][/quote][/color]

[url="http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/yaghi28.htm"]http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/yaghi28.htm[/url]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='213682' date='Feb 4 2006, 11:31 PM'][quote name='Bunghole' post='209763' date='Jan 27 2006, 10:00 PM']
Israel only acquired lands outside their initially drawn boundaries in the 1940's after they were attacked by multiple countries around them, kicked their asses, beat them back AND took some booty (land, like Gaza) for the shits and giggles of it. And now they've given back a portion of it, which puts the Palestinians in a very awkward position, especially now that Hamas has been elected into power....
On a side note, I think I recall you expressing Christian tendencies in another thread. I could be wrong, but if you claim to be so (or are), what explains your low opinion of Israel in terms of biblical references (aka, the Jews as the "chosen" of God)?
And you can't completely blame the Jews as it is in reality. They have fought tooth and nail for every sorry scrap of desert that they currently possess and were "given" by the world at large (UN).
What do you say to that line of thinking?[/quote]

Let's see, the vision of Greater Israel stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates became known to Arabs as early as the 50's. King Saud stated in an interview, for instance, that the Israelis made no secret of it and included it in their school ciriculum. The Greater Israel ambition has been considered with varying degrees of seriousness over time, but it historically was a very serious factor in the development of Arab nations' posture towards the Israelis, threatening as it did Arab territory including the Moslem holy city of Medina. Some have seen a possible revival of the Greater Israel vision now that the so-called neo-cons, who are arguably nothing more than Israeli (Likud) moles, have at least partially succeeded in pushing the United States on a course of further destabilizing the region. The only miracle involved in Israeli military success against the Arabs has been massive military and economic support by the U.S.

The portrayal of Israel as an innocent attacked by its Arab neighbors has been disingenuous. The Israelis invaded the Sinai in the 50's when Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal, and the initiation of the 1967 war has generally been inaccurately presented. Moishe Dayan later reported to a reporter that Israel provoked most of the border clashes with Syria, ordering plowing of disputed territory to advance and not stop until the Syrians became aggravated and started shooting. Then the Israelis would use artillery and air strikes to follow up. The Israelis also provoked Syria by diverting the Jordan in 1964, and then attacked diversion projects built by Syria in response. They shot down Syrian planes and buzzed Damascus with their own planes, and they bombed Egyptian airfields. Israel invaded and captured the Sinai Peninsula and their attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 is believed by some to have been in the interest of trying to prevent the Americans from gaining information about their attempts to capture the Golan Heights.

In reality, the Israelis were "given" that sorry scrap of desert under false pretenses. Contrary to popular wisdom, the Sephardim lived in relative peace along side Moslem and Christian Arabs and other ethnic groups in the Middle East, including Palestine. Where there were clashes, antagonisms were exacerbated by the machinations of the largely Ashkenazi, and also largely non-religious, Zionists. There is the so-called Khazar Question relating to the Ashkenazi, who comprise the vast majority of modern Jews and appear to be descended from the Finno-Turkish Khazars of the Caucasus region rather than from the Hebrews of Biblical fame.

The principle tactic used by the Zionists in fighting tooth and nail for that sorry scrap of desert has been terrorism, which they basically introduced into the proceedings. The target of much of their early terrorist activity was the British. WWII broke out as the Irgun was attempting to wrest concessions from the British to establish the Zionist state. Most of the Irgun sided with the British, but the infamous stern gang, which featured such future Israeli noteworthies as Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, viewed the British mandate as its biggest problem and conducted a terror campaign against the British, even making overtures to the Axis powers, which were declined. The Zionist terror campaing included the famous bombing of the King David Hotel after the war in 1946.

After the UN decision in 1948, which was a poor one, Zionist terrorism even targeted Jews. In places like Iraq and Yemen, where the Sephardim, as previously mentioned, enjoyed relative peace and prosperity, Ashkenazi terrorists bombed synagogues and other targets under false flag to induce Sephardic Jews to feel unsafe in their home countries and emmigrate to Israel. Once there, the Sephardim occupied menial occupations and were harshly discriminated against by the Ashkenazi, being derisively referred to as "Kushim" (the equivalent of "nigger"). I have a friend that lived in Israel for several years and he talked about someone he knew speaking contemptuously of "blacks," which he realized was a reference to the Sephardim. He said that the situation was so bitter that he saw graffiti in Sephardic sections stating, "Hitler should have finished the job."

As conflict with the Palestinians progressed, however, the Sephardim, who are ethnically the same as the Palestinians or other Arabs, Chaldeans, etc., came to be some of the most ardently anti-Palestinian elements in Israel. Mossad has systematically recruited Sephardim to act as sleeper agents among Arabs. The Army war college commented prior to 9/11 about Mossad's propensity and capacity to conduct false-flag terrorist operations and frame Arabs for them. The well-known Lavon affair in the 50's was a case in which the Israelis were busted doing just that when they bombed U.S. run libraries a theater and other sites in Egypt.

Of course, the Zionists also conduct a great deal of terror against Palestinians. The Israelis have conducted numerous massacres against Palestinians since 1948. Many of the victims have been deliberately targeted women, children and old people as well as people engaging in worship. The Israelis want Palestinians to renounce terrorism, but the Israelis started it and have never renounced it. A couple of the more famous massacres are the the massacre in the village of Tantura, which killed upwards of 200 people and the massacre at Dair Yasin in which the Israelis dumped something like 150 corpses, mostly women, children and elderly, in a mass grave. At Tantura, the Israelis lined men up 10 at a time against a wall and shot them and then started killing people house to house, shooting everything that moved. These were just two of several massacres that occurred in 1948, the birth year of the modern Zionist state.
NASER AL-DIN13-14 April 1948

The Zionists in Israel have been so brutal and Nazi-like in their dealings in the Middle East that it has become very difficult to reconcile any of their ostensible Biblical claim on Palestine and supposed protected status with modern reality. Fortunately there are some things to shed light on this. First there is the Khazar question. Then there is the fact that rabbinical Judaism is based on the Talmud, the Zohar and to some extent the Kabalah rather than the Torah or even the prophets. It was largely developed during the Babylonian captivity, under the influence of the Mystery system, and is basically what Yashua (Jesus) railed at the Pharisees and Sadducees about.

In light of or even aside from those two considerations, what I find merciful for me in formulating an attitude toward Jews and Zionism is the fact that there are Jews that vehemently assert that Jewishness and Zionism are not identical. I cannot reconcile any sense of decency, justice or godliness with Zionism as it exists, and fortunately I don't have to. Non-Zionist and anti-Zionist Jews often point out the difference between Talmudic Judaism and the Torah-based faith. They also point to the heavy representation of non-religious and atheistic nominal-ethnic Jews among Zionists.

Some of these Jews take issue with Zionism's claim to advance Jewish security in the world, and the religious among them often take the position that the current Zionist state is NOT the fulfilment of Biblical prophecy regarding a Jewish homeland. They assert that the nature of the current Zionist cause is an act of rebellion that will not stand and only harms the interests of Jews. They also often point to Machiavellian treachery practiced by Zionists against their fellow Jews, particularly during the Holocaust, in the interest of securing their claim to Israel. Another consideration, is the involvement of occultist-leaning Hofjuden figures like the House of Rothschild in the Zionist movement that cloak ulterior spiritual, geo-political and economic motives behind a supposedly Jewish cause. Some of these groups are:

Jews Against Zionism
[url="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/"]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/[/url]

Neturei Kartafrom
[url="http://www.nkusa.org/"]http://www.nkusa.org/[/url]

Jews Not Zionists
[url="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org"]http://www.jewsnotzionists.org[/url]


All this brings to mind the prophetic description attributed to the risen Yashua (Jesus) of those that say they are Jews but are of the synagogue of Satan. I find it quite fortunate that there are those that represent that to be Jewish is not necessarilly to be Zionist. I find the current Zionist state to be a great evil. There are even those Jews that say that it is a counterfeit that should be abolished.
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Thanks for the extensive reply. I'll have to look up some of your info, because if what you say is accurate, then that is...horrible.
I'm not so naive as to think that I won't be open minded when presented with new information that may counter my commonly-held belief.
I've got some homework to do (in between everything else that's going on in my crazy life).