America meets the new superpower

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[url="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article358568.ece?=yes "]http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...68.ece?=yes [/url]

America meets the new superpower


The visit of President Hu to Washington underlines the inevitable loss of America's economic supremacy to China
By Clifford Coonan in Beijing
Published: 19 April 2006
When President Hu Jintao of China shakes hands with President George Bush in Washington tomorrow and gives one of his fixed grins for photographers, it will not be just another meeting between the leader of a large developing country and the chief executive of the richest nation on earth.

China is rising fast and is expected to eclipse the United States economically in the future - its gross domestic product is tipped to overtake that of America by 2045.

While Mr Bush has only given Mr Hu an hour of his time for a state lunch, the global balance of power is changing and in future meetings, the Chinese will set the timetable.

The rise of China is posing awkward questions for the US, along with the realisation that its days as the world's economic superpower are numbered.

Some analysts see America entering a period of "managed decline" not unlike that which Britain has experienced since the end of the Second World War and the end of empire.

Since the Chinese economy began to open up a quarter of a century ago, there are 400 million fewer desperately poor people in China. Now Beijing wants the remarkable domestic growth story to count for something in global terms. China has already overtaken Britain and France to become the world's fourth largest economy and Mr Hu's visit to Washington represents a culture clash on a global scale. China, the emerging Asian superpower, is ruled with an iron fist by the Communist Party, which has transformed a once centrally planned economy into a free market one, "socialist with Chinese characteristics".

What China repeatedly calls its "peaceful rise" represents a major challenge for the US economy, for its political position and for its role as global policeman.

China, with its endless supply of goods and its thirst for energy, has contributed more to global growth than America in recent years, and Beijing is well aware of this. Mr Hu's visit to America is about boosting China's prestige, earning respect for the world's fastest-growing major economy and matching some of that financial muscle with real political influence.

Japan remains the engine of the Asian economy but it is not registering anything like the double-digit growth rates that China is seeing every year. What makes the rise of China different from Japan's post-war emergence is that China can match its economic growth with a strong army. China is no defeated nation, struggling out of the ashes; instead it is a proud country which likes to remind others of its cultural achievements over thousands of years.

More than half of all industrial goods are made in its factories. The production and export of these goods, their prices kept low by Beijing's manipulation of the renminbi currency, has generated the cash behind China's growing economic power.

Mr Hu was all business at the start of his tour. Dinner at Bill Gates' house in Seattle, followed by a café latte with Howard Schultz, chairman of the Starbucks chain of coffee shops, then on to the Boeing plant, before moving to the east coast, with an itinerary that includes a speech at Mr Bush's alma mater, Yale.

But this opening has been undermined before Mr Hu even arrives. The Chinese leader is being given full military honours on arrival but Mr Hu's journey is not being labelled an official "state visit" as such, but something further down the chain.

Face matters in Asia, and [b]some are reading this as a loss of face for Mr Hu. A dangerous move perhaps, given the shape of things to come.[/b] For the Bush administration, the key issue is a huge trade imbalance which is turning ever more political. Cheap Chinese exports are flooding the US market and costing American jobs.

And it is ideological too. China is not a democracy, its attitude on human rights leaves a lot to be desired and the Communist Party's treatment of organised religions angers the devoutly Christian Mr Bush. The feeling in Washington is that Beijing needs to do more to stave off the nuclear threat of North Korea and Iran, while China's courting of oil-rich, but politically suspect, countries in Africa and central Asia also rankles. A mixed bag of complaints, and the perceived absence of a clear line on China has angered some US lawmakers. The Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid, said that Mr Bush "still has no coherent strategy for managing this nation's relationship with China".

The war in Iraq or Iran's nuclear ambitions are side issues compared with the question about China's "peaceful rise" and what to do [b]when it decides to flex its muscles[/b]. Keen to keep the spin positive, senior Chinese foreign affairs officials said Mr Hu's visit would "provide an opportunity for Americans to better understand China's policy of seeking sustainable development and peaceful growth".

The trip will also introduce Mr Hu to the world. He remains a bit of a mystery three years into his leadership and little is known about his personal life, beyond the fact that he is frugal with money, likes ballroom dancing and has a photographic memory. When Mr Bush came to China in November, the two leaders reportedly spoke quite frankly to each other but relations could hardly be described as warm.

In the run-up to Mr Hu's visit, the Chinese released a number of key political prisoners; offered an olive branch to Taiwan, albeit one that Taipei cannot accept; signalled [b]better relations with the Vatican [/b] and offered hope that the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama, may visit China.

Rise of an eastern superpower

POPULATION

* 1.3 billion

ECONOMICS

* World's fastest growing economy

* Economy has grown 9.5 per cent annually for 25 years

* GDP quadrupled from 1980 to 2000

* 400 million people have been lifted out of poverty in 25 years

TRADE

* 30th largest US trading partner in 1977; now third

* World's second largest recipient of foreign direct investment

* US exports have grown five times faster than to rest of the world. US corporations have invested more than $50bn in China

* Worker earns 5-10 per cent of an American worker's wage

* 2004: Produced half of all digital cameras and 60 per cent of microwaves, photocopiers and DVD players in the world

POLLUTION

* Has 16 of the world's 20 most polluted cities

* Half of the population has polluted water supply

* Produces 3.7 billion tons of sewage a day

* World's largest consumer of coal; second only to US for oil

MILITARY

* 2005: China says it spent $30bn on its military, the Pentagon says $90bn was spent

* 2000: Estimated size is 2.5 million personnel; 10,000 tanks; 400 nuclear warheads

HEALTH

* 2003: UN estimates 840,000 have HIV

* 17 per cent of people live on less than a $1 a day

* One-third of the world's cigarettes are smoked in China

[TheBZ]

Very interesting stuff...Thanks.

Those 2.5 MILLION soldiers are a bit daunting...Just think of how long it would take playing 'RISK' to whittle that down?

BZ

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='TheBZ' post='252240' date='Apr 19 2006, 09:17 PM']Very interesting stuff...Thanks.

Those 2.5 MILLION soldiers are a bit daunting...Just think of how long it would take playing 'RISK' to whittle that down?

BZ[/quote]

And they don't mind a bit sacrificing their pawns.

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

[quote name='TheBZ' post='252240' date='Apr 19 2006, 09:17 PM']Very interesting stuff...Thanks.

Those 2.5 MILLION soldiers are a bit daunting...Just think of how long it would take playing 'RISK' to whittle that down?

BZ[/quote]

[STRAYCAT]

We won't fuck around with them. It would be our superior missles and fighter againts their theirs. We only have ourselves to blame buying up all their cheap made shit at Walmart and worrying about who the next American Idol is. They may own some paper saying they own shit here but let them try to take it.

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='STRAYCAT' post='252283' date='Apr 19 2006, 10:02 PM']We won't fuck around with them. It would be our superior missles and fighter againts their theirs. We only have ourselves to blame buying up all their cheap made shit at Walmart and worrying about who the next American Idol is. They may own some paper saying they own shit here but let them try to take it. [/quote]


They'll load their missles on Hutchison Whampoa cargo ships meet up at Freeport, then chug up near U.S. shores and launch them with cheap purses bound for Walmart streaming off of them.

[|Bunghole|]

Going from a rice-paddy farmer to earning a buck a day in a smoke-belching factory isn't much of a jump economically, IMHO.
But, they DO produce cheap goods both to our benefit (consumer) and our detriment (outsourced/displaced manufacturing jobs).
Who knows what will happen?
My best guess is that we will strive to maintain the significant military technology divide between us versus them, enough so that they will always have to worry about what we're up to.
I have a sinking feeling though that as time progresses, China will become increasingly intolerant of Taiwan's existence and we will be called upon to militarily aid Taiwan. And then the shit will really hit the proverbial fan....

[DanvilleBengal]

This could be the beginning of the end of the world as we know it....WWIII might be around the corner with China preparing to flex its newfound power and muscle.


Where is Jamie with scripture that could give some credence to my opinion? I know that it say something about that in Revelations.....

[Guest bengaljet]

US has sent many manufacturing jobs overseas and I've heard people in Bush's administration say that it is a good thing. The manufacturer makes $$$,the buyer uses his $$$=who gets economically stronger?-China.

The guy I work for told me a story last wk about China. A large US company called wanting a specialty machine from him-they needed it badly. He quoted $35,000/1 machine. The company came back 2 wks later and said they'd went to China + bought (2) for $10,000=$5,000 ea. The company said they looked good but weren't sure if they'd work,but "had" to take a chance. Chinese workers get $.06/hr. Our company $14-18 hr(not BIG $$$),but US can't compete vs .06/hr.

Seller(producer) gains,buyer loses financial strength. So what happens when US doesn't produce anything to sell?

My boss "was" a BIG Bush supporter but he has a little different view now. The economy for manufacturing has been bad for 4-5 yrs. Maybe it is a coincidence but under Clinton we were busy and since W it's a "struggle" everyday. I give my boss credit=he's fighting,scratching,doing everything to keep the doors open(seen him work18-20 hrs/day) and I couldn't do what he does. And he says the gov't is no help to "small" business owners.

Manufacturing was important in the US at 1 time--now it's not.Let's see how we pay the bills. How's China getting all their wealth?

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/26.gif[/img] [/center]



[size=3][u][quote]China Mistakenly Called by Taiwan's Name
Associated Press[/u][/size]


WASHINGTON - The meeting between President Bush and Chinese President Hu Jintao began with a gaffe Thursday when an announcer referred to China by the formal name of Taiwan, which China considers a rebellious province.

As Bush and Hu stood at attention outside the White House, an announcer said, "Ladies and gentlemen, the national anthem of the Republic of China, followed by the national anthem of the United States of America."

"Republic of China" is the formal name of the island 100 miles off the Chinese mainland. China is known formally as the People's Republic of China.

Taiwan is a most delicate issue for China. Beijing claims sovereignty over the self-governing island, which split from the mainland in 1949 as civil war ended on the mainland.

The losing nationalists fled the communists and established their rump state on the island and for many years claimed to be the rightful government of all China. Recent Taiwan governments have spoken of trying for formal independence, which China has said repeatedly might be met by military force.[/quote]


[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060420/ap_on_go_pr_wh/hu_visit_gaffe"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060420/ap_on_.../hu_visit_gaffe[/url]

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='252305' date='Apr 19 2006, 10:43 PM']Going from a rice-paddy farmer to earning a buck a day in a smoke-belching factory isn't much of a jump economically, IMHO.
But, they DO produce cheap goods both to our benefit (consumer) and our detriment (outsourced/displaced manufacturing jobs).
Who knows what will happen?
My best guess is that we will strive to maintain the significant military technology divide between us versus them, enough so that they will always have to worry about what we're up to.
I have a sinking feeling though that as time progresses, China will become increasingly intolerant of Taiwan's existence and we will be called upon to militarily aid Taiwan. And then the shit will really hit the proverbial fan....[/quote]


China is working to close the military technology gap in conjunction with the Russians. The Chinese approach is to get better bang for the buck - Americans often blow up structures that cost a fraction of the ordnance used to blow them up. The Chinese are building their economy while relying less on high-tech military solutions - even as they work to develop high tech capabilities. It appears that in their concept of "Unrestricted Warfare," they're committed to employing a wide variety of means to pursue narrowly focused ends. They also have stepped back from the brink of infiltration by the NWO whereas the US has been fully infiltrated and now has a power structure that is divorced from national identity. The NWO leaders may still be able to smite China, but they are as likely to sacrifice the U.S. to do it as not.

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='bengaljet' post='252401' date='Apr 20 2006, 04:26 AM']US has sent many manufacturing jobs overseas and I've heard people in Bush's administration say that it is a good thing. The manufacturer makes $$$,the buyer uses his $$$=who gets economically stronger?-China.

The guy I work for told me a story last wk about China. A large US company called wanting a specialty machine from him-they needed it badly. He quoted $35,000/1 machine. The company came back 2 wks later and said they'd went to China + bought (2) for $10,000=$5,000 ea. The company said they looked good but weren't sure if they'd work,but "had" to take a chance. Chinese workers get $.06/hr. Our company $14-18 hr(not BIG $$$),but US can't compete vs .06/hr.

Seller(producer) gains,buyer loses financial strength. So what happens when US doesn't produce anything to sell?

My boss "was" a BIG Bush supporter but he has a little different view now. The economy for manufacturing has been bad for 4-5 yrs. Maybe it is a coincidence but under Clinton we were busy and since W it's a "struggle" everyday. I give my boss credit=he's fighting,scratching,doing everything to keep the doors open(seen him work18-20 hrs/day) and I couldn't do what he does. And he says the gov't is no help to "small" business owners.

Manufacturing was important in the US at 1 time--now it's not.Let's see how we pay the bills. How's China getting all their wealth?[/quote]

"Isolationist" and "protectionist" have become pejoratives, but that has been the mission of the Council of Foreign Relations from the time that the U.S. Senate recognized the ulterior purposes of the League of Nations - part of the opiated elixur pumped into Wilson by "Colonel" Edward Mandel House on the part of the Rothschild/Morgan crew - and rejected it. "Globalism" didn't just happen; it's not the natural outgrowth of population growth and mobility that people assume. Neither is corporate power and license the natural growth of the economic and political system that people seem to think. Concentrated financial interests have worked long and hard at "controlling the business environment" as they say in elementary management classes.

Social engineering, debauchment of both the moral imagination of the people and the currency, and restructuring of the economy to concentrate wealth and degrade the working class are all part of the infiltration previously mentioned. The powers that be would love for life in the U.S. to resemble life in China as long as they can continue to rule the U.S. and, by proxy, China too. In the end, unless you like the idea of working for $0.06/hr, "Isolationism" and "protectionism" should sound like words of comfort to you. Another term that people ought to get more comfortable with is, "conspiracy."

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='252862' date='Apr 20 2006, 08:37 PM']China is working to close the military technology gap in conjunction with the Russians. The Chinese approach is to get better bang for the buck - Americans often blow up structures that cost a fraction of the ordnance used to blow them up. The Chinese are building their economy while relying less on high-tech military solutions.[/quote]


[b]Great point Coy ....


we are spending billions on unmanned drones and high tech gadgets .... while they are purchasing the good ol Tanks and artillery that win wars. And thus we can never use our superior technology against them .... because they have Nukes ..... hence it is all equalized ..... and meanwhile on foreign fronts .... we sit here with a dwindling 1 million man military lowering our standards to fill quotas ..... and they have a 2.5 million strong army with a reserve force usually quoted at 20 million.

Not to mention they are letting the U.S. develop all of the software and then they simply just purchase it for themselves .... thus no R&D is required .... and instead they are investing in their own nation with large scale projects..... (I read last week that half of all the concrete in the world is used in China each year now). [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img] [/b]

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='252876' date='Apr 20 2006, 09:05 PM'][b]Great point Coy ....
we are spending billions on unmanned drones and high tech gadgets .... while they are purchasing the good ol Tanks and artillery that win wars. And thus we can never use our superior technology against them .... because they have Nukes ..... hence it is all equalized ..... and meanwhile on foreign fronts .... we sit here with a dwindling 1 million man military lowering our standards to fill quotas ..... and they have a 2.5 million strong army with a reserve force usually quoted at 20 million.

Not to mention they are letting the U.S. develop all of the software and then they simply just purchase it for themselves .... thus no R&D is required .... and instead they are investing in their own nation with large scale projects..... (I read last week that half of all the concrete in the world is used in China each year now). [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img] [/b][/quote]


And look at the big steel feeding frenzy that the Chinese went on recently. The American steel industry hadn't seen profits like that in a long time. They were even buying up coat hangers.

[Guest steggyD]

Ok, you all convinced me. Let's nuke China. Now!!!

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]America meets the new superpower[/quote]


[b]then somebody should have woke the old coot up for it .... [/b] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]


[center][img]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/archive/ap/cheney.jpg[/img]

[size=3]= here’s a picture of Vice President Dick Cheney sleeping during Mr. Hu’s press conference[/size][/center]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060427/cam.gif[/img]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [/center]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060427/grondahl.jpg[/img]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/37.gif[/img] [/center]