The PatternMaster Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1317324735' post='1037710'] I really think people need to keep this whole season in perspective.. I have read some pretty harsh criticisms of Gruden after this loss, and I would like people to think back to the measured and realistic expectations we pretty much all shared before the season started. There has been a lot to be encouraged about. Dalton has shown that the NFL isn't too big for him, and seems to be able to be what we drafted him for. Green has demonstrated the skill and talent that made him a top 10 pick and even our OL has stepped up some from last year. What Gruden is trying to do on offense has pretty much never happened in the modern NFL. Take a rookie 2nd round QB, 2 WR first year starters (one rookie), and install a completely new offense with no training camp on your first stint as an offensive coordinator in the NFL. All this with a team that won 4 games last year. Of course the offense looks 1 dimensional.. It would look that way most likely with a rookie QB even in an established system. We shouldn't expect the offense to be carrying much of a load this year at all because that would be crazy. What's important is that we give our young skill players a chance to learn and grow, while Gruden gains his NFL OC legs and installs more of the offense.. Growth... That's what is important right now. From our rookie players to our rookie OC to the playbook. Hopefully we win some games along the way and have some fun this season... And if by some crazy fucking happenstance we actually make it to the playoffs I thin I would buy a lottery ticket for the first time in my life because some crazy shit is in the works. [/quote] I disagree, this is the time to win games, not let the young figure shit out. Also Gruden helped call plays for TB when his big bro was the HC, he's been around football his whole life, he should know what he's doing by now. To me it seems like he is trying to get too cute and fancy in short yardage situations, although the oline isn't winning many battles without Big Bad Bobbie in there. So far the offense is has a 3rd down conversation percentage of 23.7%, which would make the Bengals the 32nd best team in the league at converting 3rd downs. OC's earn their money on third downs and in the red zone, and so far Gruden is stealing money because the offense dies on 3rd downs and when they get close to the end zone. The NFL stands for Not For Long when you are the OC and your putting up those type of numbers. I was estatic we finally shit canned Brat, I thought it was a long overdue move, but Gruden has to start producing asap. No excuses, if he doesn't feel like a rookie qb can execute his offense then go with only qb to win a game for the Bengals this year, a vet who has experience in the offense. We have the talent to get it done but I don't see the coach putting his players in positions to succeed more times than not, yes the players must execute but the coach has to put them in the position to have success and I don't think Gruden is doing that so far and the stats back up my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1317328549' post='1037719'] I disagree, this is the time to win games, not let the young figure shit out. Also Gruden helped call plays for TB when his big bro was the HC, he's been around football his whole life, he should know what he's doing by now. To me it seems like he is trying to get too cute and fancy in short yardage situations, although the oline isn't winning many battles without Big Bad Bobbie in there. So far the offense is has a 3rd down conversation percentage of 23.7%, which would make the Bengals the 32nd best team in the league at converting 3rd downs. OC's earn their money on third downs and in the red zone, and so far Gruden is stealing money because the offense dies on 3rd downs and when they get close to the end zone. The NFL stands for Not For Long when you are the OC and your putting up those type of numbers. I was estatic we finally shit canned Brat, I thought it was a long overdue move, but Gruden has to start producing asap. [b] No excuses[/b], if he doesn't feel like a rookie qb can execute his offense then go with only qb to win a game for the Bengals this year, a vet who has experience in the offense. We have the talent to get it done but I don't see the coach putting his players in positions to succeed more times than not, yes the players must execute but the coach has to put them in the position to have success and I don't think Gruden is doing that so far and the stats back up my opinion. [/quote] That kind of rhetoric is great motivational material, but in reality doesn't really mean shit.. In reality, there [i]are[/i] such things as mitigating factors. The truth is Gruden is behind the 8 ball.. Show me an example of a first year OC with a rookie QB installing a brand new offense with no off season whatsoever who was more successful than Gruden has been so far.. Scratch that,, Show me [i]anytime[/i] in NFL history where anyone has been asked to do what Gruden is attempting here period. All that rah rah win now shit is fine talk, but the hard truth is that it takes time to put together an NFL offense and get it's various pieces working fluidly. You can't just throw plays at the offense and expect it to produce in them. The fact that I'm sure you don't want to hear is that rebuilding takes some time. There is a reason that the rookie QB success in recent years have all had a few things in common. A good defense and running game to keep the score close, and not put too much on the shoulders of the signal caller. It's not about "well if the rookie can't handle it... ". You also have to have realistic expectations and a plan to bring him along in a way that is conducive to building for long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1317329817' post='1037724'] That kind of rhetoric is great motivational material, but in reality doesn't really mean shit.. In reality, there [i]are[/i] such things as mitigating factors. The truth is Gruden is behind the 8 ball.. Show me an example of a first year OC with a rookie QB installing a brand new offense with no off season whatsoever who was more successful than Gruden has been so far.. Scratch that,, Show me [i]anytime[/i] in NFL history where anyone has been asked to do what Gruden is attempting here period. All that rah rah win now shit is fine talk, but the hard truth is that it takes time to put together an NFL offense and get it's various pieces working fluidly. You can't just throw plays at the offense and expect it to produce in them. The fact that I'm sure you don't want to hear is that rebuilding takes some time. There is a reason that the rookie QB success in recent years have all had a few things in common. A good defense and running game to keep the score close, and not put too much on the shoulders of the signal caller. It's not about "well if the rookie can't handle it... ". You also have to have realistic expectations and a plan to bring him along in a way that is conducive to building for long term success. [/quote] The only that matters in this league is winning, if you can't win you won't be around for long. If Gruden can't win with Dalton than put in Grad, if not Grad, then find a guy who can get it done or it's your ass that will looking for a job. The reality is you don't get a chance to rebuild in the NFL, you get fired. We don't have time, these guys have to get it done now, like two weeks ago. A 24% 3rd down conversation percentage is horrible, no excuse for that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finklestein Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1317331130' post='1037726'] The only that matters in this league is winning, if you can't win you won't be around for long. If Gruden can't win with Dalton than put in Grad, if not Grad, then find a guy who can get it done or it's your ass that will looking for a job. The reality is you don't get a chance to rebuild in the NFL, you get fired. We don't have time, these guys have to get it done now, like two weeks ago. A 24% 3rd down conversation percentage is horrible, no excuse for that shit. [/quote] Where do you think this is, New England?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 [quote name='Jim Finklestein' timestamp='1317331817' post='1037730'] Where do you think this is, New England?? [/quote] You mean the same New England that just blew a 20-point lead to Buffalo? They aren't even in first place in their own division, isn't it about time to get off the Patriot's jock? [quote name='ThePatternMaster']If Gruden can't win with Dalton than put in Grad[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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