IS RACE AN ISSUE IN KATRINA RESPONSE?

[Guest ONYX]

Race An Issue In Katrina Response

WASHINGTON, Sept. 3, 2005



Victims of Hurricane Katrina wait for food and water and an opportunity to be evacuated in the downtown area of New Orleans. (AP)



"It looks dysfunctional to me right now."
Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif.



(AP) The human suffering from Hurricane Katrina and the images of mostly black hurricane victims and looters have provoked new debates about tough public policy decisions, the nation's troubled racial history and the racial and economic barriers that still separate Americans.

Black members of Congress expressed anger Friday at what they said was a slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

"It looks dysfunctional to me right now," said Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif.

She and other members of the Congressional Black Caucus, along with members of the Black Leadership Forum, National Urban League and the NAACP, held a news conference and charged that the response was slow because those most affected are poor.

Many also are black, but the lawmakers held off on charging racism.

"The issue is not about race right now," said Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, D-Ohio. "There will be another time to have issues about color."

Watson and others also took issue with the word "refugee" being used to describe hurricane victims.

"'Refugee' calls up to mind people that come from different lands and have to be taken care of. These are American citizens," Watson said.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, the most prominent black person in the Bush administration, downplayed the criticism.

"That Americans would somehow in a color-affected way decide who to help and who not to help, I, I just don't believe it," she said. "The African-American community has obviously been very heavily affected. But people are doing what they can for Americans. Nobody wants to see any American suffer."

In conversations at restaurants, homes, offices, on talk radio and online, it's clear that many blacks and whites view the effects of Katrina differently.

Although no group is monolithic in opinion or emotion, many blacks are outraged that so many of their own were left behind in New Orleans with no evacuation plan and no urgent effort to rescue them.

"Black people are mad because they feel the reason for the slow response is because those people are black and they didn't support George Bush," said Ron Walters, a professor of government and politics at the University of Maryland. "And I don't expect that feeling to go away anytime soon."

No one questions that whites have been moved by the suffering of blacks, and vice versa. But amid images of black looters, some sympathy threatens to give way to anger and disdain.

The hurricane's racial conflict took on political overtones Friday, as black leaders blasted the Bush administration's slow response and asked whether race played a part.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson charged that race was "at least a factor" in the slow response.

"We have an amazing tolerance for black pain," he told CNN on Friday. He questioned why the U.S. military couldn't house many of the homeless on unused military airbases, adding that more people will die of starvation and dehydration than from drowning.

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D- Md., stopped short of that, saying that it was the frail, the weak and the sick who were left in need. But in an interview on CNN, Cummings said, "I'm not sure" if racism was partly responsible for the problems.

"All I know is that a number of the faces that I saw were African-American," he said.

*******************************************************************

I was watching "Real Time: with Bill Maher" last night, and he showed 2 photos released from the press.
The first photo was a young black boy chest deep in water with bags of food in his hands. The caption under the picture reads "a boy has looted grocery from a nearby store."
The second photo is a picture of a white couple waist deep in water both with bags of food in their hands. The caption under the picture reads "This couple desperate for survival have luckily found some food and suplies".
Now it seems obvious that all three people didnt pay for the bags of supplies and food. How is it that the black kid "looted" the food, and the white couple "found" the food? For all the liberal, Democratic, and African-Americans, last nights episode was very good. You should check it out this weekend if you have HBO .

[Guest bengalrick]

this isn't an issue about black or white imo... i voted for "it would suck either way" and the reason being, is b/c the area was flooded out so bad, it was damn near impossible to mobilize the necessary equipment...

racism is basing questions off of race... do you honestly think that if this was a prodomently white area, the effort would be stronger?? please, we are all AMERICANS, not caucasions or african americans... i hate this arguement... until we all realize that we are all the same, reguardless of race, we will never get over the hump of racism... it will never be nonexistant, but as long as whites hear "if this was all white people, they would have been saved" then it defeats the purpose of defeating racism... that is my opinion...

[Guest oldschooler]

New Orleans is predominately blacks.
New Orleans is a bowl.
It was a disaster waiting to happen.

I have no doubt that if the population would have
been predominately whites...the outcome would have
been the same. It had nothing to do with race.


If you MAKE race an issue...then it BECOMES an issue...

[Lawman]

I[quote]was watching "Real Time: with Bill Maher" last night, and he showed 2 photos released from the press.
The first photo was a young black boy chest deep in water with bags of food in his hands. The caption under the picture reads "a boy has looted grocery from a nearby store."
The second photo is a picture of a white couple waist deep in water both with bags of food in their hands. The caption under the picture reads "This couple desperate for survival have luckily found some food and suplies".
Now it seems obvious that all three people didnt pay for the bags of supplies and food. How is it that the black kid "looted" the food, and the white couple "found" the food? For all the liberal, Democratic, and African-Americans, last nights episode was very good. You should check it out this weekend if you have HBO  .[/quote]
These are AP photo's meaning they have come from seperate sources and pooled for release. I went to the following site and found the same photo of the young black boy and the caption read as follows: "A young man walks chest deep in flood water after exiting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday" no depiction of him as looter, BTW he is carrying what looks like a 12 pack of Diet Pepsi.

please go to site and look at the photo's, as a photographer these are some moving images. awesome photography; AP have some of the best.
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/32.gif[/img] justdon't tell BJ

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/special/7/"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...hoto/special/7/[/url]

[Guest CTBengalsFan]

It's an issue for black people who love to turn everything into a race issue

[Guest steggyD]

Definitely, race is an issue. This has been in the work for centuries now. This is only part of the plan. You see, hundreds of years ago, these people decided to settle in New Orleans, even though it was below sea level. Then they had this plan, to bring in as many black people as possible, and get them living there. The trap is set, now to spring the trap, just wait for a huge hurricane to come. Then, just to make it look good, the white people gave them all a warning to get out of town, but that's it. Then the storm comes, the levees break, and all the poor little black people are left to drown. Brilliant plan, right? Wait til you see what we have in store for the Mexicans.

In all reality, I watched dateline last night, did you catch it ? They showed a black man complaining about how they are all left there to die, just because they are black. At that time, a white family is seen behind him...

And Jesse Jackson comes in, to tell them all that he is going to personally have some buses come pick them up. Oh, good thinking, Jesse, make yourself look good now. Where were you before the storm? Were you shipping buses to them? Anyways, he didn't get any buses in there either. I guess the good ol' Rev Jackson is racist also.

Stop pulling the race card. The government is full of so much red tape and paperwork, getting things done is quite a task. I think Louisiana must be a sucky state. You never see these problems when Florida is hit. They handle the situation much better, without the federal government, I know they come in to assist, but things don't get this out of hand before the federal government assists. They handle things much better on a local level. If you want to complain about anything, complain about all of the bureaucracy in the federal government. There are so many checks and balances, that things cannot happen overnight. If you ever spent time in the military, you would understand the great US government saying, "Hurry up and wait."

[Guest steggyD]

Oh yeah, one more thing, on the Dateline episode, there was one community that helped many of the people who escaped from the floods. It was a community full of wealthier white people. And they assisted the poor people, who were mostly black, some whites also. They are giving them food, clothing, and even opening up hundreds of spots in their schools so that the children of these poor people can continue on with their education. The community is also helping to locate family members of the now homeless people. All this at the expense of the white community, not government money. How racist of them, right?

[Guest CTBengalsFan]

Thanks for your input Kanye, after all you are a rapper

[url="http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79/wide"]http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79/wide[/url]

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='Sep 3 2005, 07:23 PM']Thanks for your input Kanye, after all you are a rapper

[url="http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79/wide"]http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79/wide[/url]
[right][post="141712"][/post][/right][/quote]
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

That put me in tears...

[Guest ONYX]

Based on the demographics of those who post here, I am shocked at the number of those who actually voted "YES" [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]
Thanks for participating

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='sneaky' date='Sep 3 2005, 09:44 PM']Based on the demographics of those who post here, I am shocked at the number of those who actually voted  "YES"    [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]    
Thanks for participating
[right][post="141761"][/post][/right][/quote]
It's about to become racist, if one more black person calls us white people racist. I'm tired of it. I had nothing against anyone until they kept crying race foul, over and over. Did you read anything I posted? Did you know that there are communities of mainly white people helping black people out? Do you care? Or do you just wanna keep yelling, "racist!" over and over?

[|Bunghole|]

Inherently it is not a racially based issue...as if Hurricanes deliberately target non-whites...
But it has become one because of racists. I for one am sick of people trying to find a racial reason for everything that befalls minorities in this country.
It is my opinion that for the most part, if you are poor, it is your own fault, barring mental/physical handicap, etc of course.
There are far too many opportunities to better yourself out there for people of ALL backgrounds, and sadly, many choose to glorify materialism and ignorance, take to the streets, and suffer the consequences.
And then these very same people try to lay the blame for their own poor life choices squarely at the feet of "the man".
It is complete bullshit.

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

On everything I love fuck you SteggyD, Storm, CTBengals, and any of you silly red neck sons of bitches. Really and honestly fuck you, if you feeble minded fucks think that the people who are suffering the through the worst diaster in American history deserved this to happen to them then I sincerely wish I could kick your fucking ass. These people who you so coldly through away and blame are harding working Americans who left to die because of the color of the skin, everyone who has been there has said that,l black and white. You dumb fucks sit at home and watch what the media shows you and you have the nerve and gaul to judge and blame those who are suffering!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIKE I SAID BEFORE FUCK ALL YOU RACIST SONS OF BITCHES!!!!!!!!!~!!!!



OH YEAH I VOTED NO!

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]Would they be called refugees if they were mostly white - No
Would Bush had instantly stopped his vacation if they were mostly white - Yes


Even more than Racism it is Classism

they have a double whammy.... they are black and poor ....... and to top it off, not Republican, and not part of the religious right. We have already seen that a white vegetable with some nutcase white supporters outside of a Hospess can literally reconvene the entire Senate and get Bush to stop his vacation to go pray in Washington. [/b].........



[img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/12860/schiavo_protest2.jpg[/img][img]http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/artikel/889/49840/image_fmabspic_0_0-1111427358.jpg[/img]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]

[Beaker]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 4 2005, 04:10 AM'][b]Would they be called refugees if they were mostly white - No
Would Bush had instantly stopped his vacation if they were mostly white - Yes
[right][post="141828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

And you know this how? Inside source? First hand account? Or are you just assuming so? Im guessing its the latter.

One of my faves: It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.[/quote]


[i]"Those should practice what they preach"[/i]

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Sep 4 2005, 12:01 AM']On everything I love fuck you SteggyD, Storm, CTBengals, and any of you silly red neck sons of bitches.  Really and honestly fuck you, if you feeble minded fucks think that the people who are suffering the through the worst diaster in American history deserved this to happen to them then I sincerely wish I could kick your fucking ass.  These people who you so coldly through away and blame are harding working Americans who left to die because of the color of the skin, everyone who has been there has said that,l black and white.  You dumb fucks sit at home and watch what the media shows you and you have the nerve and gaul to judge and blame those who are suffering!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIKE I SAID BEFORE FUCK ALL YOU RACIST SONS OF BITCHES!!!!!!!!!~!!!!
OH YEAH I VOTED NO!
[right][post="141824"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
I'm not racist. I'm anti-people, no matter what race. Every day, I am just left stupified about the intelligence level of people I see all over, no matter what color their skin is. I don't hope for them to die and drown and starve. But do you get my point whatsoever? Why can a group of freaking tribal people, with no guns, no cars, no televisions, nothing? Why can they survive a catastrophe they have no television warning about? Why are they not calling people racist? Because they took care of themselves. At this point, I don't wish those who were left behind to die, but it saddens me that I still saw young healthy families, sitting there, in the heat, for four days waiting for a bus. I'll tell you what, if I don't have to report to anyone, which obviously, they don't, then I'm getting my happy little ass up, and my family is walking the hell away from that group of people. Why would I want to sit in the middle of all that? I'm talking about the poor white people as much as the poor black people.

I grew up poor, yeah, poor white trash. I've done more for myself since then, but my parents raised me better than to sit around and wait for other people to help you. We learned to survive in the wilderness, eat plants, fish, everything. My father was always prepared for something horrible to happen, and he made sure that the entire family could deal with any sort of catastrophe. He also worked his ass off to make sure we could eat, and never accepted any type of welfare. That is how I live today, and many others can live the same exact way, if they are willing to try.

It's nice to sit around and blame other people for the situation you are in, but it gets you nowhere. Even white people are to blame for this, I'm telling you, it's stupidity that pisses me off, not a race. Look at when a white student shoots another student. They look at musicians and other things to blame, instead of blaming themselves. I find that stupid. Fess up and try some self-empowerment. It's a little better than sitting around finding people to blame for your problems.

And if you really want to blame something, then how about blaming the hurricane itself for bringing the catastrophe, instead of saying that white people just do not care to help people because they are black. For christ's sake, FEMA was there before the hurricane ever hit. This is a huge catastrophe, and people of all races are trying to help. This is an unseen event, first time. Let the kinks work themselves out.

[Guest steggyD]

Another thing, Bengal Smoov. Don't you think I am just as upset for being called a racist, when I feel that I hold nothing against people of any particular race? I am as pissed as those who think we are being racist. That's why I get upset in these conversations. I try to pose my point of view, but you people keep pulling this damn "race card" out on me. I know they are poor hard working people. I was one of them, I still am poor, hopefully for just another year. I'm hard working, trying to work out of my situation, very hard, I get about 15 hours of sleep total during the week, and half of those are on a train. Don't give me this I don't care about the poor people crap. I'm just tired of people looking for excuses.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Why can a group of freaking tribal people, with no guns, no cars, no televisions, nothing? Why can they survive a catastrophe they have no television warning about?[/quote]

[i][b]those were small isolated groups out of the millions that did not and the hundreds of thousands that drown. It would be the numerical equivalent of giving us a case of one family in NO that had a vision of the hurricane and thus got out of town on their own. Also don't believe that just because they are "tribal" that they are not intuititve and intelligent... if anything a disaster is the exact kind of thing that are good at surviving. They live on the land and in nature at all times. thus they are still in their element. As for just walking out of NO, people are not allowed to. The Natl Guard will not let them walk out of No on their own because the surrounding areas are worried about an influx of people. [/b][/i]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 3 2005, 11:08 PM'][i][b]those were small isolated groups out of the millions that did not and the hundreds of thousands that drown.  It would be the numerical equivalent of giving us a case of one family in NO that had a vision of the hurricane and thus got out of town on their own.  Also don't believe that just because they are "tribal" that they are not intuititve and intelligent... if anything a disaster is the exact kind of thing that are good at surviving.  They live on the land and in nature at all times.  thus they are still in their element.  As for just walking out of NO, people are not allowed to.  The Natl Guard will not let them walk out of No on their own because the surrounding areas are worried about an influx of people.  [/b][/i]
[right][post="141870"][/post][/right][/quote]
They could have started walking and would have been let out of NO at anytime prior to the levee breaches, which was the day after the hurricane, and SIX days after the initial notification from reputable weather sources that the hurricane was headed towards NO.....and hundreds of thousands are NOT drowning....the resources were there to help but Bush held them back because he wanted to kill some niggers.....
And if I don't quantify my inflammatory statement with a non-racial explanation, then I must be a racist......

[|Lucid|]

You're right..

All those people in NO without cars or money just should have hiked a couple miles inland... Hung out in a cave on the local mountain, and ate coconuts until this was all over..

There is a big difference between being in a flooded city, and being on a pacific Island. So you are going to what.. Gather up food and clothing and hike out of the city, into the country, with you whole family.. Grandma and the kids... And what... Sleep in the woods???

Maybe in hind site that would be worth it.. but no one knew the levees were going to break.

It's not the storm that will have killed most of the people that will be dead after this.. It is the flooding of the city, the starvation, spreading of disease and lack of medical attention. NO actually made it through the actual storm pretty well.

Cities have complicated and vast infrastructure in order to support massive population density.. This kind of thing would not have been an issue in a largely rural setting.

And the authorities have been preventing people from leaving the convention center and the super dome... They can't just leave.

Sorry, but it makes me sick for people to sit back in their homes and point the finger of blame at those left behind in this situation... Of course the people are expecting someone to help them... It is impossible for them to help themselves right now.


BTW I voted that it would be as bad either way.. i don't see this as a race issue so much class.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Sep 3 2005, 10:01 PM']On everything I love fuck you SteggyD, Storm, CTBengals, and any of you silly red neck sons of bitches.  Really and honestly fuck you, if you feeble minded fucks think that the people who are suffering the through the worst diaster in American history deserved this to happen to them then I sincerely wish I could kick your fucking ass.  These people who you so coldly through away and blame are harding working Americans who left to die because of the color of the skin, everyone who has been there has said that,l black and white.  You dumb fucks sit at home and watch what the media shows you and you have the nerve and gaul to judge and blame those who are suffering!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIKE I SAID BEFORE FUCK ALL YOU RACIST SONS OF BITCHES!!!!!!!!!~!!!!
OH YEAH I VOTED NO!
[right][post="141824"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
You are surely drunk beyond recognition. This is beyond insane even for you....nobody here, including myself, has ever said that anyone deserves this kind of natural disaster. It's guys like you that are injecting race into this scenario.
And let's be honest...apparently if you are black and live in New Orleans, then somehow you missed the memo that everyone else got telling you to EVACUATE!
And if they were hard-working, that would imply intelligence that when the major weather organizations repeat the same information for 5 days BEFORE the storm hit, that you would pay even the remotest attention.
Smoov. FUCK YOU ON THIS ONE!!!
And I personally resent your implications...fucking garbage....

[Guest BengalBacker]

Why did they live in a city under sea level on a coast that everyone knows could be a target of a hurricane? I would have never lived there. If they're poor, they could be poor somewhere else. Greyhound is cheap.

I'm not saying I don't feel sorry for them. I felt sorry for the people in San Fransisco who lost their homes, and their lives in the last big earthquake too, but a part of me says, why would you live there in the first place?

[Guest steggyD]

I'm through with this thread. It will probably have me banned before too long. But I will say to Lucid. There is not much difference between a Pacific island and USA. They are both pieces of land, both able to hold land walking mammals. In both places, people are able to walk away from danger. And I heard nothing but warnings that the levees may break.

Now again, I'm not saying that I am glad that there are poor people, black or white, down there dying. I'm just saying, a little self-empowerment will help you, when you know it's so hard to rely on other people to help you. Remember the saying, "If you want something done right, do it yourself." Then go blaming the next step up. But skipping your own city and state, just to blame the President, and try to cause all kinds of racial tensions across the nation. That is fucking pathetic. I repeat, fucking pathetic.

Now I feel like I have to stock up on ammo, and plan evacuation strategies for my family while I am 2 hours away from them most of the time. Yeah, I fear tensions may brew across the nation eventually, and create some havoc. I hope not, but I will be prepared.

[|Lucid|]

Wait... Before you go...



Firstly... I didn't say the USA was different than a Pacific Island (which sounds strange, but I get what you are saying).

I said NO (a major American CITY) was a lot different than a pacific Island... A pacific Island has very low population density... There is an abundance of food naturally available.. Their sources of water would have been there.. They were eating Coconuts... and I'm sure shortly after, resumed fishing.. As BJ said. These natives were in Their element.. They are used to living off the land.. And they also had land they could live off of... Try living off a city.. When it is flooded, and all water has been turned off...


But anyway.. I want ANYONE who is proposing that these people should have just left to answer this question for me.


Assume you are the father of a poor family living in NO... You have no car, and you are the bread winner for your family and live pay check to paycheck. You have almost no money in the bank.... Your only option is to walk out of the city..

This doesn't even cover the old and the sick...

What do you do?? Where do you go??

Give me your plan... Tell me what you would do.....