Assistance Needed on 9/11

[Honkey]

[size=2]BJ et. all... After going to school in Chicago I forgot how ignorant and pig-headed some people can be in their beliefs. I recently got into an argument on the happenings on and preceeding 9/11. My retarded friends believe word for word the government account and had the nerve to question my loyalty to America because I've gone out and done hours and hours of research on the matter and know a lot more than they. I tried to direct them to different sites to check out and different videos to watch, but was hoping for the assistance of others. I know BJ, Coy, and AZ know a lot more about this than I do. But please help me in giving a better account of what happened on 9/11. I myself once thought that Bush could do no wrong, but after watching Loose Change and doing a lot of research I found out how big of a bastard he really is. In advance, I thank you for your help and assistance. [/size]

[Guest bengalrick]

[i]After going to school in Chicago I forgot how ignorant and pig-headed some people can be in their beliefs.[/i]

ironic: calling other people ignorant for not believing you and then asking your buddies to better explain the conspiracy theory... maybe your delivery was lacking, and it wasn't their ignorance... and something tells me they were thinking you were ignorant also...

but since the documentary was what change your mind, why not watch that again??

and if your looking for evidence of this theory, sorry but your not going to find it brotha.... only inconsistancies... but people still swear that we purposely attacked pearl harbor too... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Honkey' post='294923' date='Jul 17 2006, 08:17 AM'][size=2]BJ et. all... After going to school in Chicago I forgot how [b]ignorant and pig-headed [/b] some people can be in their [size=5]beliefs[/size]. I recently got into an argument on the happenings on and preceeding 9/11. My [b]retarded [/b] friends believe word for word the government account and had the nerve to question my loyalty to America because I've gone out and done hours and hours of research on the matter and know a lot more than they. I tried to direct them to different sites to check out and different videos to watch, but was hoping for the assistance of others. I know BJ, Coy, and AZ [b]know a lot more about this than I do[/b]. But please help me in giving [b]a better account of what happened on 9/11[/b]. I myself once thought that Bush could do no wrong, but after watching Loose Change and doing a lot of research I found out how big of a bastard he really is. In advance, I thank you for your help and assistance. [/size][/quote]


Bolded for emphasis.


You call others that don`t BELIEVE the way you do, ignorant, pig-headed, and retarded.

Sure some of the conspiracy theories that are spouted off here are POSSIBLE.
But that doesn`t mean that`s what REALLY happened. It just means that`s what
you and others BELIEVE happened.


I just find it hard to believe that Mossad, the U.S. Government, or anyone else
other than Bin Laden and Al-Quaida commited 9/11. Bin Laden declared war on
the U.S. in 1996. He attacked U.S. Embassies and the USS Cole. He asked his
Muslim Brothers to join in the Jihad against the "infidels". So it`s not like the thought
of him being behind 9/11 is asinine, ridiculous or makes a person a "whack job" as
one thread in this forum suggests.

Leaders of Countries, International commitees/councils, a Bi-partisan 9/11 Commision,
have all seen the evidence against Bin Laden. They all agree that he was behind it. You would
have to believe that they are all part of the conspiracy to frame Bin Laden/Al-Quaida and allow Mossad,
Zionist, the Neo-Cons, or whoever you BELIEVE really did it, to walk away scott free.

Plus Bin Laden was reported to say at first that he had nothing to do with 9/11.
But he has released several video/audio tapes and makes no mention of his innocence.
He just goes on about his Jihad and how the "infidels" must die. I`m sorry, but if I were
innocent of something, I would proclaim my innocence everytime I opened my mouth.
I would scream to the World how I was being framed, and I sure as hell wouldn`t
keep talking like I wanted anything like 9/11 to happen. It would tend to make people
BELIEVE that I was really behind it all, when you factor in that Leaders on Countries,
International commitees/councils, and a Bi-partisan 9/11 Commision, all say the
evidence points to me anyway.

There are 1000`s of different conspiracy theories. Some have more credence than others.
That doesn`t make them fact. It just means it is possible, but not likely, when you consider
that for it to be true, that ALL REPORTERS for Al-jazeera, the BBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC,
FOX News ect..., would be in on the conspiracy. Plus EVERY SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN would
also have to be in on it. And all that is highly unlikely when you consider how much the Bush
Administration is hated by a lot of people in the media and in the Senate and Congress at the moment.

I don`t think I`m "ignorant, pig-headed or retarded" for BELIEVING the way I do.
I just think that it is the most feasible scenario of what happened...when all things
are considered...

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Honkey' post='294923' date='Jul 17 2006, 02:17 PM'][size=2]BJ et. all... After going to school in Chicago I forgot how ignorant and pig-headed some people can be in their beliefs. I recently got into an argument on the happenings on and preceeding 9/11. My retarded friends believe word for word the government account and had the nerve to question my loyalty to America because I've gone out and done hours and hours of research on the matter and know a lot more than they. I tried to direct them to different sites to check out and different videos to watch, but was hoping for the assistance of others. I know BJ, Coy, and AZ know a lot more about this than I do. But please help me in giving a better account of what happened on 9/11. I myself once thought that Bush could do no wrong, but after watching Loose Change and doing a lot of research I found out how big of a bastard he really is. In advance, I thank you for your help and assistance. [/size][/quote]
Here is a decent place to start.

[url="http://www.reopen911.org/"]http://www.reopen911.org/[/url]

I rather enjoyed this article as well.

[url="http://www.serendipity.li/wot/holmgren01.htm"]http://www.serendipity.li/wot/holmgren01.htm[/url]

[Honkey]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='294937' date='Jul 17 2006, 08:24 AM']Bolded for emphasis.
You call others that don`t BELIEVE the way you do, ignorant, pig-headed, and retarded.

Sure some of the conspiracy theories that are spouted off here are POSSIBLE.
But that doesn`t mean that`s what REALLY happened. It just means that`s what
you and others BELIEVE happened.
I just find it hard to believe that Mossad, the U.S. Government, or anyone else
other than Bin Laden and Al-Quaida commited 9/11. Bin Laden declared war on
the U.S. in 1996. He attacked U.S. Embassies and the USS Cole. He asked his
Muslim Brothers to join in the Jihad against the "infidels". So it`s not like the thought
of him being behind 9/11 is asinine, ridiculous or makes a person a "whack job" as
one thread in this forum suggests.

Leaders of Countries, International commitees/councils, a Bi-partisan 9/11 Commision,
have all seen the evidence against Bin Laden. They all agree that he was behind it. You would
have to believe that they are all part of the conspiracy to frame Bin Laden/Al-Quaida and allow Mossad,
Zionist, the Neo-Cons, or whoever you BELIEVE really did it, to walk away scott free.

Plus Bin Laden was reported to say at first that he had nothing to do with 9/11.
But he has released several video/audio tapes and makes no mention of his innocence.
He just goes on about his Jihad and how the "infidels" must die. I`m sorry, but if I were
innocent of something, I would proclaim my innocence everytime I opened my mouth.
I would scream to the World how I was being framed, and I sure as hell wouldn`t
keep talking like I wanted anything like 9/11 to happen. It would tend to make people
BELIEVE that I was really behind it all, when you factor in that Leaders on Countries,
International commitees/councils, and a Bi-partisan 9/11 Commision, all say the
evidence points to me anyway.

There are 1000`s of different conspiracy theories. Some have more credence than others.
That doesn`t make them fact. It just means it is possible, but not likely, when you consider
that for it to be true, that ALL REPORTERS for Al-jazeera, the BBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC,
FOX News ect..., would be in on the conspiracy. Plus EVERY SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN would
also have to be in on it. And all that is highly unlikely when you consider how much the Bush
Administration is hated by a lot of people in the media and in the Senate and Congress at the moment.

I don`t think I`m "ignorant, pig-headed or retarded" for BELIEVING the way I do.
I just think that it is the most feasible scenario of what happened...when all things
are considered...[/quote]

1st off I was calling these people ignorant and pig-headed for not even fathoming another possible happening for 9/11. I'm sorry, but I have a little more faith in the USAF that they could scramble and shoot down any plane headed for a building of the importance of WTC 1, 2 and the Pentagon. Please read the link given below
[url="http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050724164122860"]Mineta Report 9/11[/url]

So you are referring to a commission report that left out the critical testimony of Noman Mineta, did not even mention the collapse of WTC Building 7, and allowed Bush and Cheney to testify behind closed doors.. and this is a bi-partisan report?
You also refer to falsified videos of Bin Ladin where the man in the video is obviously right-handed, and as we all know (at least if you have done any research) that Bin Ladin is left-handed.

Whodey i thank you for your help on this matter.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Honkey' post='294951' date='Jul 17 2006, 04:23 PM']Whodey i thank you for your help on this matter.[/quote]

Anytime.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Honkey' post='294951' date='Jul 17 2006, 10:23 AM']1st off I was calling these people ignorant and pig-headed for not even fathoming another possible happening for 9/11. I'm sorry, but I have a little more faith in the USAF that they could scramble and shoot down any plane headed for a building of the importance of WTC 1, 2 and the Pentagon. Please read the link given below
[url="http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050724164122860"]Mineta Report 9/11[/url]

So you are referring to a commission report that left out the critical testimony of Noman Mineta, did not even mention the collapse of WTC Building 7, and allowed Bush and Cheney to testify behind closed doors.. and this is a bi-partisan report?
You also refer to falsified videos of Bin Ladin where the man in the video is obviously right-handed, and as we all know (at least if you have done any research) that Bin Ladin is left-handed.

Whodey i thank you for your help on this matter.[/quote]



So which conspiracy theory are you going with this week ?
It sounds like you think the Government attacked ourselves.
Are you sure it wasn`t Mossad ? Are you sure it wasn`t drones
that hit the WTC ? Are you sure that a missle wasn`t fired at the Pentagon ?


Is Bin Laden even really a person...or just something made up by the U.S. government ?
Did he really declare war on the U.S. ? Did he really attack the Embassies in Africa ?
Has every word and action from Bin Laden been faked ?



As far as the video being falsified ... and your main reason for thinking so being
that he is left handed...


[img]http://911myths.com/assets/images/story.obl.righthand.jpg[/img]

Videotapes showing the left-handed Osama bin Ladin gesturing with his right hand led some viewers to believe that his left arm was injured.

[url="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/07/23/binladen.internet/"]http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/07/23/binladen.internet/[/url]


Bin Laden writing with his right hand...

[img]http://911myths.com/assets/images/OBL_writes.jpg[/img]


Just check out this link...

[url="http://911myths.com/html/bin_ladin_right_handed_.html"]http://911myths.com/html/bin_ladin_right_handed_.html[/url]


I guess EVERY Bin Laden tape is a fake ?

[quote]I will speak to you about the reasons behind these incidents. I will honestly tell you about the minutes in which the decision was made so that you will consider. I say to you that God knows that the idea of striking the towers never occurred to us.

But, after things had gone too far and we saw the injustice of the US-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, [b]I started thinking of that.[/b][/quote]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm[/url]


Why wouldn`t the President and Vice President testify behind closed doors ?
Bill Clinton and Al Gore did. Are they in on it too ?


Hell just check out this site. It gives good reasons/explainations to most of the shit the
conspiracy links, provided to you in this thread, say...

[url="http://911myths.com/index.html"]http://911myths.com/index.html[/url]

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='295188' date='Jul 18 2006, 12:39 AM']So which conspiracy theory are you going with this week ?
It sounds like you think the Government attacked ourselves.
Are you sure it wasn`t Mossad ? Are you sure it wasn`t drones
that hit the WTC ? Are you sure that a missle wasn`t fired at the Pentagon ?
Is Bin Laden even really a person...or just something made up by the U.S. government ?
Did he really declare war on the U.S. ? Did he really attack the Embassies in Africa ?
Has every word and action from Bin Laden been faked ?
As far as the video being falsified ... and your main reason for thinking so being
that he is left handed...
[img]http://911myths.com/assets/images/story.obl.righthand.jpg[/img]

Videotapes showing the left-handed Osama bin Ladin gesturing with his right hand led some viewers to believe that his left arm was injured.

[url="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/07/23/binladen.internet/"]http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/07/23/binladen.internet/[/url]
Bin Laden writing with his right hand...

[img]http://911myths.com/assets/images/OBL_writes.jpg[/img]
Just check out this link...

[url="http://911myths.com/html/bin_ladin_right_handed_.html"]http://911myths.com/html/bin_ladin_right_handed_.html[/url]
I guess EVERY Bin Laden tape is a fake ?



[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm[/url]
Why wouldn`t the President and Vice President testify behind closed doors ?
Bill Clinton and Al Gore did. Are they in on it too ?
Hell just check out this site. It gives good reasons/explainations to most of the shit the
conspiracy links, provided to you in this thread, say...

[url="http://911myths.com/index.html"]http://911myths.com/index.html[/url][/quote]
First of all, thanks for the post. I think that this is the first of the posts disputing a conspiracy theory that I've seen that has actually bothered to make an arguement and provide real info, rather than simply insist that we must be crazy or stupid for thinking that the official story is BS. (though you might think that I'm crazy as well )

As for what I believe happened... well to be perfectly honest, I just don't know. I won't claim to have a complete account of what exactly did happen. But I too have taken a good look at the facts, and simply find them to be inconsistent with the official story.

Personally, I think Bin Laden is a myth. A BS caricature made to frighten the masses, and nothing more. The only thing we know for sure about him was that he served the CIAs purposes years back.

I took a peek at your site, and to be honest, I just don't buy what is written there. I can see why it comforts you in supporting your POV, but it reeks of BS to me. For example:

The BS about #7, the only steel framed building in history (unless you can name another) that has simply collapsed form a small fire. Do you believe that the Spanish are somehow more technologically advanced in their building techniques? How else do you explain that the Madrid high rise burns all night without collapse in a true inferno, but #7 simply falls down, from its core outward (just like a controlled demo) from a limited blaze? Have you seen these pics?

[url="http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_2005.html"]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_2005.html[/url]

Also, the idea that two buildings a quarter of a mile high could fall straight down into their own footprint without being demolished is simply hilarious. If this were the case, the city of Cincy would have simply set fire to Riverfront stadium, instead of paying to have it demolished.

Do you honestly believe that a plane flew into the pentagon and folded up like a friggin cartoon plane, and disappeared into a hole in the building, with no parts left behind, no damage to lawn in front of the building, into a hole several meters wide? And why is it that the gov't felt the need to confiscate all of the surveillance footage? What are they hiding, besides evidence of the biggest bastardization of the laws of physics in the history of the universe?

And since when do engines just fall off of planes? Also, it was quite convenient of that site to adjust the facts of where the fallen engine was found (5 miles away if I recall, not 300 yards as this article claims), seemingly to discount any thought of a misslie shooting down the plane. Or did the engine fall off because the passengers hit the cockpit door too hard as the stormed it?

This is but the tip of the iceberg for me. I could go on and on and on. I've spent more time researching this than I did my final college thesis, amd by a longshot. Like you, I'm prolly not going to have my opinion changed anytime soon without some miraculous windfall of new info. But I honestly do appreciate the discussion.

And I'm glad to know that if nothing else, we both will agree that pissbugh sucks, and that in Marvin we trust...

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='295188' date='Jul 17 2006, 07:39 PM']So which conspiracy theory are you going with this week ?
It sounds like you think the Government attacked ourselves.
Are you sure it wasn`t Mossad ? Are you sure it wasn`t drones
that hit the WTC ? Are you sure that a missle wasn`t fired at the Pentagon ?[/quote]
Oldschool. There is no ONE pieced together story. I don't think we will ever KNOW exactly what happened, though enthusiastically, sometimes it may sound like there is a definite story being presented.
The pieces of REAL evidence (that cannot be doctored) lead ME and MANY others to think that the story we are fed is NOT reality. It does not add up. Certain things you can tell, like a demolition of the towers, inability of an amateur to fly the aircraft in that manner, 7 of them still alive, a forged video with obviously a non-look-alike playing bin laden, thermite being discovered on the metal, the motive, the aftermath, the obviously planted pieces of evidence, the anthrax scares, NORAD ordered to stand down, no response for 1 1/2 hours whereas when Payne Stewart's jet went off course without a response, fighter planes were flying next to in a matter of minutes, and on and on.

But these are just physical evidences. Motive, opportunity/capability, method, coverup, etc. are other evidences, but everyone sticks to the physicals because they really cannot be argued with...but somehow you still do.

I don't think anyone can legitimately say what happened, 100%. I see what these pieces of evidence show and that is what I have to go on...

[quote]As far as the video being falsified ... and your main reason for thinking so being
that he is left handed...[/quote]
No, the main reason is that they are NOT the same person. do they look the same to you?? The left one is from the fake tape, the right 2 are legitimate binladen photos.

[img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/fake-osama.jpg[/img][img]http://911myths.com/assets/images/story.obl.righthand.jpg[/img]





Does this site you listed explain how these men survived their hijacked planes' "instant incineration" and then the fall of the towers?

[img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/alnami.jpg[/img][img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/alshehri.jpg[/img][img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/alomari.jpg[/img][img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/alghamdi.jpg[/img][img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/almihdhar.jpg[/img]
STILL ALIVE: AL NAMI AL SHEHRI AL OMARI AL GHAMDI AL GHAMDI AL-MIHDHAR

[RoyT]

Honky, like I said in another post it's worth the time to really dig in and research this is our generations JFK and we should be well educated to give a strong explanation of what we individually believe in to our grandchildren. Personnaly, it sounds like you and me may be in the same boat. I was a Big time Bush head at first, but I've been shown enough evidence now that I just have to go off on my own and read, study, and reflect to get to a place where I once again feel strongly about what I truely believe in. A lot of things the media and the bush admin are spinning don't add up to me anymore, so I'm going to look beyond them for a change (something I doubt many actually do). Because if I take the easy way out and just watch what is fed to me automaticlly on the TV, or radio I'm afraid I'll be brainwashed. I'm just the kind of person that has to be 100% sure in what I believe in, and that is a heavy burden since it's hard for me to maintain a religious faith. If I could change anything about me that would probably be the area of my greatest concern, but since I can't I just got to constantly absorb what I can and hopefully one dau the world will slow down long enough for me to get a grasp.

[TheBZ]

A good re-hashing of stuff here...And I think that it is interesting that it is more often the apologists that are asking for a full 'conspiracy theory' to fill out the narrative of 'Who did this?', as opposed to the critics.

That is not really required, because we are still hung up on these inconsistencies and blatant errors...And the first question we need to ask is 'Why was the evidence moved/tampered/misrepresented/covered up??'

As a critic, you don't need a full train of narrative to see holes in the process. You are really just acknowledging the holes.

The answers on the admin side are to try to fill these holes with presumptions and storyline...That really doesn't make for a fix.

For instance, OLD...The declaration of Jihad by Bin Laden in '98 is a nice piece of story. But how does it fill in as evidence?

Ultimately, it speaks to the nature of a society that is more willing to believe the plotline than the evidence...And this theme has been carried through into Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

It's going to be very hard to nail down 'Who' until someone really has to answer for the pack of lies. That may never happen.

In the meantime, though...Many critics are just looking for people to accept and realize the number of holes that are there.

BZ

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='RoyT' post='295270' date='Jul 17 2006, 09:30 PM']Honky, like I said in another post it's worth the time to really dig in and research this is our generations JFK and we should be well educated to give a strong explanation of what we individually believe in to our grandchildren. Personnaly, it sounds like you and me may be in the same boat. I was a Big time Bush head at first, but I've been shown enough evidence now that I just have to go off on my own and read, study, and reflect to get to a place where I once again feel strongly about what I truely believe in. A lot of things the media and the bush admin are spinning don't add up to me anymore, so I'm going to look beyond them for a change (something I doubt many actually do). Because if I take the easy way out and just watch what is fed to me automaticlly on the TV, or radio I'm afraid I'll be brainwashed. I'm just the kind of person that has to be 100% sure in what I believe in, and that is a heavy burden since it's hard for me to maintain a religious faith. If I could change anything about me that would probably be the area of my greatest concern, but since I can't I just got to constantly absorb what I can and hopefully one dau the world will slow down long enough for me to get a grasp.[/quote]
if you search for the truth(not "truthiness"), you will find what you seek... but im afraid that if you are truly a person of faith that you will no longer be able to support the man known as bush after first seeing the facts in an unbiased light.

[Nati Ice]

are there holes?
-yes

are most of them easily explained?
-yes

are their some questionable pieces for which we will never know the answer to?
-probably

is this enough to convince most sensible people that the official story is a sham?
-hell no


*please carry on*

[Honkey]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='295513' date='Jul 18 2006, 03:53 AM']are there holes?
-yes

are most of them easily explained?
-yes

are their some questionable pieces for which we will never know the answer to?
-probably

is this enough to convince most sensible people that the official story is a sham?
-hell no
*please carry on*[/quote]


AHHHH you make it sound so simple... Oh of course there are a few holes (huge gaping ones the size of the grand canyon) let's just let those slide...

Most of them are easily explained? Please sir, could you provide us all with explanation of these holes that you see fit as to deem easily explainable. Let's just start off with the collapses of the WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7 (which was not hit by an aircraft of any sort)

Can you honestly live in peace without knowing the answer to these "holes?"

Most of the most sensible people I know have questioned the happenings on 9/11 and most of them that aren't so far up Bush's ass have changed their stance and want answers just like so many on this board seek.

But yes.. let us carry on with this warm fuzzy feeling cuz we still have Bush and Cheney "contolling?" our country...

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='295513' date='Jul 18 2006, 05:53 AM']are there holes?
-yes

are most of them easily explained?
-yes

are their some questionable pieces for which we will never know the answer to?
-probably

is this enough to convince most sensible people that the official story is a sham?
-hell no
*please carry on*[/quote]

i agree w/ this 100%

[Honkey]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='295567' date='Jul 18 2006, 07:43 AM']i agree w/ this 100%[/quote]


never would've guessed that..

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Honkey' post='295577' date='Jul 18 2006, 10:05 AM']never would've guessed that.. [/quote]

i am not jumping on the bush did it bandwagon... i do have questions about building 7 and even some about the pentagon... and i want another (better) investigation into the official story... especially considering the official story doesn't explain building 7, and this building did house a CIA office...

but i still think you are a wacko and have been manipulated by coincidences, instead of waiting for real evidence... as nati said, much of the shit is easily explained... try me...

[whodey319]

[quote name='Honkey' post='295556' date='Jul 18 2006, 09:04 AM']AHHHH you make it sound so simple... Oh of course there are a few holes (huge gaping ones the size of the grand canyon) let's just let those slide...

Most of them are easily explained? Please sir, could you provide us all with explanation of these holes that you see fit as to deem easily explainable. Let's just start off with the collapses of the WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7 (which was not hit by an aircraft of any sort)

Can you honestly live in peace without knowing the answer to these "holes?"

Most of the most sensible people I know have questioned the happenings on 9/11 and most of them that aren't so far up Bush's ass have changed their stance and want answers just like so many on this board seek.

But yes.. let us carry on with this warm fuzzy feeling cuz we still have Bush and Cheney "contolling?" our country...[/quote]
lets start with the holes in this statement.

holes = things you and others with similar views think are gaping holes because the explanations given dont fulfill your expectations arent necessarily holes to other people. Just like a lot of us that dont agree with your point of view think you have huge gaping holes in your story that dont fulfill our expectations.

sensible people you know = people you know that agree with you, so if they dont agree, logically they are not sensible to you. Just like the people i think are sensible agree with me and so on.

so many on this board seek = really there are like 10 maybe 20 max that openly seek "the truth" that you do. and this is out of 1500 members so thats about 1% grand total.

and the biggest one is just because we dont agree with you doesnt mean our heads are up bush's ass, and if you think 2 men control this country then your crazy to begin with.

Nothing against you personally its just that because someone has different points of view or different beliefs it doesnt make them an idiot or a blind sheep. Some are quick to use these terms even though its not true at all, the blindest sheep out of any group come from the extreme of both sides (PETA, ACLU, religious nuts, etc) not some average joe on go-bengals.com that has a different view than you.

[Honkey]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='295588' date='Jul 18 2006, 08:25 AM']i am not jumping on the bush did it bandwagon... i do have questions about building 7 and even some about the pentagon... and i want another (better) investigation into the official story... especially considering the official story doesn't explain building 7, and this building did house a CIA office...

but i still think you are a wacko and have been manipulated by coincidences, instead of waiting for real evidence... as nati said, much of the shit is easily explained... try me... [/quote]


BR, I am glad that you are questioning... I just hope that you are looking for answers or at least reading them when BJ, AZ, et al give them to you right in front of your face. Quite the conundrum how building 7 fell and is not even discussed in the 9/11 omission report. IMHO I would be willing to wager that a fairly large percent of the population of the US and A (as borat likes to put it) even is aware that building 7 collapsed.

As for calling me a whacko... Right back atcha BR.. I probably said this earlier, but I for one have a little more faith in our Air Force that they could be scrambled and shoot these planes down if they had been allowed to.

My advice to you- don't hold your breath waiting for the "real evidence" at least from the government.. It took them 4 and a half years to show one screen of a plane hitting the pentagon.. I'm pretty sure any of us on here could have done that on our home computers having the technology.

Oh and since everything is so easily explained, Geez what should i ask you to explain, (I'm really thinking here, not trying to be an asshole cuz there truly are so many things left to be explained)... Alright go ahead and explain how WTC 1, 2, and 7 fell at free fall speeds without the obvious answer of controlled demolition

[Honkey]

[quote name='whodey319' post='295592' date='Jul 18 2006, 08:35 AM']lets start with the holes in this statement.

holes = things you and others with similar views think are gaping holes because the explanations given dont fulfill your expectations arent necessarily holes to other people. Just like a lot of us that dont agree with your point of view think you have huge gaping holes in your story that dont fulfill our expectations.

sensible people you know = people you know that agree with you, so if they dont agree, logically they are not sensible to you. Just like the people i think are sensible agree with me and so on.

so many on this board seek = really there are like 10 maybe 20 max that openly seek "the truth" that you do. and this is out of 1500 members so thats about 1% grand total.

and the biggest one is just because we dont agree with you doesnt mean our heads are up bush's ass, and if you think 2 men control this country then your crazy to begin with.

Nothing against you personally its just that because someone has different points of view or different beliefs it doesnt make them an idiot or a blind sheep. Some are quick to use these terms even though its not true at all, the blindest sheep out of any group come from the extreme of both sides (PETA, ACLU, religious nuts, etc) not some average joe on go-bengals.com that has a different view than you.[/quote]


We have huge gaping holes in our argument? Please tell me how much you have looked into this matter. Most of the people that are in disbelief over the government's account, like myself, have done hundreds and hundreds of hours worth of research on the matter..

I consider a sensible person someone that will educate themselves on issues of this magnitude and come up with their own position on it, but not a position determined by a political stance.

I never said "the truth" that I saw fit.. My position is that the government's account is incorrect and corrupted. I do not see how you can say it is not when in its report it does not even mention the collapse of WTC Building 7. Did WTC 7 not fall on 9/11?

So 10-20 people are seeking ANSWERS to their questions about 9/11... what does that tellyou about the sensibility of most on this board? i for one hope and expect that there are more than 20 people on a board of over 1000 seeking answers to a big question.

[Honkey]

Nothing against you personally its just that because someone has different points of view or different beliefs it doesnt make them an idiot or a blind sheep. Some are quick to use these terms even though its not true at all, the blindest sheep out of any group come from the extreme of both sides (PETA, ACLU, religious nuts, etc) not some average joe on go-bengals.com that has a different view than you.
[/quote]


I appreciate that and Bengals fan to another Bengals fan I welcome your opinion and agree with this part of your argument. Who Dey

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Honkey' post='295596' date='Jul 18 2006, 10:39 AM']Oh and since everything is so easily explained, Geez what should i ask you to explain, (I'm really thinking here, not trying to be an asshole cuz there truly are so many things left to be explained)... Alright go ahead and explain how WTC 1, 2, and 7 fell at free fall speeds without the obvious answer of controlled demolition[/quote]

as i said, i can't explain building 7 very much... the 9/11 commission didn't even touch it... but it can (sort of) be explained considering the combination of fire in the building, and the immense damage it sustained when the two towers fell... but as i said, i have questions beyond that on building 7, like why the commission didn't explain it...

as far as why they feel at free fall speeds, i can't (mainly b/c i'm not smart enough)... but what i can do, is show you that it was not a controlled implosion... if it was, the implosion was not like any other in history... b/c instead of the implosion occuring on the ground like so:
[img]http://www.implosionworld.com/img/bftp/stfabian.jpg[/img]

but if you see the towers fall, they don't follow that account... if you look at this [url="http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/n_tower_collapse1.wmv"]video[/url] you can see that the first thing that starts to fall is the tv antenna... if this were a controlled demolition, the implosion would start at the bottom... after the initial part falling (antenna) the rest looks like a controlled demolition, but that is b/c a controlled demolition also takes into account gravity... which, if this was an accident, would be a viable reason why the towers fell...


i will gladly try to explain any thing else you have... as i have said before, its easier to disprove things, than it is to prove things are true...

[Honkey]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='295615' date='Jul 18 2006, 08:58 AM']as i said, i can't explain building 7 very much... the 9/11 commission didn't even touch it... but it can (sort of) be explained considering the combination of fire in the building, and the immense damage it sustained when the two towers fell... but as i said, i have questions beyond that on building 7, like why the commission didn't explain it...

as far as why they feel at free fall speeds, i can't (mainly b/c i'm not smart enough)... but what i can do, is show you that it was not a controlled implosion... if it was, the implosion was not like any other in history... b/c instead of the implosion occuring on the ground like so:
[img]http://www.implosionworld.com/img/bftp/stfabian.jpg[/img]

but if you see the towers fall, they don't follow that account... if you look at this [url="http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/n_tower_collapse1.wmv"]video[/url] you can see that the first thing that starts to fall is the tv antenna... if this were a controlled demolition, the implosion would start at the bottom... after the initial part falling (antenna) the rest looks like a controlled demolition, but that is b/c a controlled demolition also takes into account gravity... which, if this was an accident, would be a viable reason why the towers fell...
i will gladly try to explain any thing else you have... as i have said before, its easier to disprove things, than it is to prove things are true...[/quote]


I will agree with you that this is not like any other ground up implosion (which is what happened with WTC 7) But if you look at the Loose Change video it shows subsequent explosions from the top down. I hope everyone out there has had the chance to watch the video.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='295615' date='Jul 18 2006, 03:58 PM']as i said, i can't explain building 7 very much... the 9/11 commission didn't even touch it... but it can (sort of) be explained considering the combination of fire in the building, and the immense damage it sustained when the two towers fell...[/quote]

Err, #7 was not damaged at all when the towers fell. Take a look here and you'll see that #6, which did not fall, was in between the towers and #7. No way the towers touched #7.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.jpg"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Bui...d_Site_Plan.jpg[/url][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.jpg[/img]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='295655' date='Jul 18 2006, 11:36 AM']Err, #7 was not damaged at all when the towers fell. Take a look here and you'll see that #6, which did not fall, was in between the towers and #7. No way the towers touched #7.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.jpg"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Bui...d_Site_Plan.jpg[/url][/quote]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.jpg[/img]

other buildings that fell:

[i]Numerous other buildings in the WTC and surrounding it were damaged or destroyed as the towers fell. [b]5 WTC[/b] suffered a large fire and a partial collapse of its steel structure.

Other buildings destroyed include[b] St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church[/b], [b]Marriott Hotel (3 WTC)[/b], [b]South Plaza (4 WTC)[/b], and [b]U.S. Customs (6 WTC)[/b]. [b]World Financial Center buildings 4, 5, 6, and 7, 90 West Street, and 130 Cedar Street suffered fires[/b]. [b]The Bankers Trust Building, Verizon, and World Financial Center 3 suffered impact damage from the towers' collapse[/b], as did [b]90 West Street[/b]. [b]30 West Broadway[/b] [b]was damaged by the collapse of 7 WTC[/b]. The Deutsche Bank Building, though left standing, is currently being demolished because of water and mold damage, and severe damage caused by the neighboring towers' collapse[/i]

its not like WTC 7 fell out of nowhere, and everything else was left standing... and the bankers trust building and verizon building had, and were also in odd places... the church was totally covered b/c of building 2, but it managed to get knocked down too...