CarsonDaMan Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 According to Baseball Weekly (Bob Nightengale): "The greatest trade that was actually made - and vetoed - was a true blockbuster: The Reds were trading center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. to the White Sox for top minor league outfielder Chris Young, first baseman Casey Rogowski, along with a fringe prospect. The trade, which included the Reds picking up $4.5 million of Griffey's $13 million annual salary the next three years, was agreed upon the night of July 29. Griffey even let friends know that he would waive his 10-and-5 rights and accept the trade." "But Reds owner Carl Lindner killed it Saturday morning." "Lindner simply did not want to deal with the public relations fallout, while also remembering how difficult it was acquiring Griffey from Seattle in the first place." Other notes from Baseball Weekly: "The White Sox, whose deal for Ken Griffey Jr. (for three minor league prospects) was killed by Reds owner Carl Lindner last weekend, would revisit their trade talks if Griffey clears waivers in August." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 we better fucking not... we finally got vintage griffey instead of injured griffey... its not like theres a salary cap that we are trying to push his contract in... its carls cheap ass, that won't spend more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Blah were not going to get rid of anyone if Lindners still the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 [quote name='CTA513' date='Aug 3 2005, 03:25 PM']Blah were not going to get rid of anyone if Lindners still the owner. [right][post="123855"][/post][/right][/quote] trade an all century player for three prospects (better name for potential)... no thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Aug 3 2005, 03:30 PM']trade an all century player for three prospects (better name for potential)... no thanks... [right][post="123861"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] They have a log jam in the outfield and that asshole isnt doing shit about it and its fucking up Kearns & Penas development. If they were offered the best pitchers in the league that shit head would say no because he doesnt want to hurt the fans feelings... a team losing every fucking year sure as hell isnt bringing in the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaltonGreen Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 hell no trade JR. for 3 suck ass minor leagers if that ever happens im not a reds fan any more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarsonDaMan Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Well, those arent suck ass minor leaguers. Both are legit prospects. I loved the idea of having Griffey here just as much as any one of you. But the facts are the guy makes WAY to much money, and is one false step from tearing his leg up again. If they had a chance to clear his salary they shouldve done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Im not saying Griffey is the one who should be traded, but shit someone needs to be traded in order for Kearns or Pena to grow/improve. If the National League had DH then there wouldnt be a problem, but they dont and now the Reds have starters sitting on the bench because they have a log jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 so we should trade an outfielder for 3 prospects... NONE ARE PITCHERS... and pay 4.5 million dollars... sounds like a splended idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarsonDaMan Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 [quote]If they had a chance to clear his salary they shouldve done it.[/quote] That my friend is the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 They should have traded him. They are going no where fast, and by the time the Reds could possibly contend again, 2-3 years, Griffey will be hurt or done. They definitely should have made the trade, although I am glad they didn't (I hate the White Sox). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Linder is the Billionaire, ya'll are not. Good Job Karl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 [quote name='The Scales' date='Aug 3 2005, 06:51 PM']Linder is the Billionaire, ya'll are not. Good Job Karl. [right][post="123994"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] let me guess you are? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 [quote name='CTA513' date='Aug 3 2005, 07:53 PM']let me guess you are? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [right][post="123995"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] You guessed wrong. I'm a Fafillionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Aug 3 2005, 09:37 PM']so we should trade an outfielder for 3 prospects... NONE ARE PITCHERS... and pay 4.5 million dollars...[/quote] And while they are at it, here is my wife and daughter to fuck too. Christ that's a totally shitty trade deal. VB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='VonBlade' date='Aug 4 2005, 05:23 AM']And while they are at it, here is my wife and daughter to fuck too. Christ that's a totally shitty trade deal. VB [right][post="124276"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] i'm glad someone saw the light... it would have been one of the worst trades i've heard of... quality or even great prospect pitchers, and i am just mad, b/c griffey is my favorite player, but we do need pitchers... for a first baseman, an outfielder, and another guy that isn't even mentioned... terrible trade... and we would have had to pay 4.5 million... my god, that just flat out sucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='CarsonDaMan' date='Aug 3 2005, 04:20 PM']That my friend is the idea. [right][post="123944"][/post][/right][/quote] Talk to yourself much ? I personally don`t care how much Griffey makes. He is the BEST player on the team...and trading the best player just to unload his salary is asinine. The Reds needed a new stadium to compete...remember ? Trading your best player away to clear his salary...when you just had a fire sale in 2003...just won`t fly if you are REALLY wanting to compete and justify the new stadium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 All parties deny Griffey-to–White Sox trade report By Hal McCoy Dayton Daily News CINCINNATI | Ken Griffey Jr. was not traded. Period. Paragraph. End of story. A report in USA Today said that Griffey was traded to the Chicago White Sox on Saturday, but that Cincinnati Reds CEO Carl Lindner squashed the deal. The report was denied Wednesday by Reds General Manager Dan O'Brien, Griffey, Brian Goldberg (Griffey's Cincinnati-based agent) and White Sox officials. "My reaction is short and sweet," said O'Brien. "Throughout July we had no conversations with Griffey or his agent about his 10-and-5 status, and that says it all. We were consistent in indicating we wanted to keep our outfield intact, and that's where it stands." Griffey said he hadn't heard word one about a trade. "I heard the White Sox were interested in me, and that's a very good team," said Griffey. "But ... spring training in Tucson?" For the Reds to trade Griffey anywhere, they need his approval, and Griffey was genuinely surprised when asked if he heard he was traded to the White Sox. "I hadn't heard that," he said. "I hadn't heard about any kind of trade. But I did think it odd that the front office told Kent Mercker, David Weathers and Adam Dunn they wouldn't be traded, but nobody said anything to me. And nobody asked me or my agent anything about going to any other team." Griffey has given the Reds a list of, "Three or four teams," to which he would accept a trade and the White Sox are not on that list. Griffey's agent, Goldberg, was as surprised as Griffey by the report. "Not anything to it," he said. "Conversations I had with the Reds recently revealed that nothing was up as far as trades other than a couple of inquiries. They told me he was going to remain with the Reds. "And they never came to us to ask whether Junior would accept a trade," Goldberg added. Much was made of the fact Griffey wasn't in Sunday's lineup, the day of the trade deadline, "But they told me Friday I wasn't going to play Sunday and I told all my friends and relatives so they wouldn't think I was traded," he said. Dunn honored Adam Dunn was named National League Player of the Month for July after hitting 11 homers and driving in 31 runs. "Can I have your watch?" Griffey asked Dunn, referring to the gold watch award he receives. "You can have anything I have because I'm a great teammate," Dunn said. His pitchers certainly love him. "It is something special, getting rewarded this way," said Dunn, who struggled mightily in May, picked it up in June and turned it on in July. "It was probably a bunch of little things I did differently, nothing major. I just made better contact. And I'm going to get better." His manager, Jerry Narron, agrees, especially his batting averages. His top average was .266 last year and he is hitting .252 this year. But because of his walks, his on-base average always is high. "I know his average is going to get better," Narron said. "It is a matter of putting the ball in play more. I was amazed how many times last year he took called third strikes. "He is at the point in his career where you get better, you level off or you go backward, but he continues to get better," Narron added. "I've told him, 'Compete against yourself to see how good you can be.' " Edwin's education After making three errors, striking out twice and grounding into a double play Tuesday, Edwin Encarnacion was not so much worried about being back in the lineup as he was being back in Class AAA Louisville. But Narron had him in the lineup  after a chat. "I talked to him about the first year (Hall of Famer) Wade Boggs came to the big leagues and that he wasn't as good a fielder as Edwin is now," Narron said. "I told him how Boggs came to the park at home every day before batting practice and took extra ground balls and made himself good enough to win a couple of Gold Gloves. I told him I'd like to see him do that." Encarnacion is willing and said, "I'll do that. I'll work hard every day to get better. That's part of my job. I've never had a day like that, ever. "But (Narron) told me not to worry, that stuff like that happens, it's part of the game." Added Narron, "Third base is a tough position, and very few guys come to the big leagues as good defensive third basemen. There are very few Scott Rolens in the world. As for Edwin, there is no doubt in my mind he's going to handle it and be an outstanding third baseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarsonDaMan Posted August 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 4 2005, 08:57 AM']Talk to yourself much ? I personally don`t care how much Griffey makes. He is the BEST player on the team...and trading the best player just to unload his salary is asinine. The Reds needed a new stadium to compete...remember ? Trading your best player away to clear his salary...when you just had a fire sale in 2003...just won`t fly if you are REALLY wanting to compete and justify the new stadium... [right][post="124311"][/post][/right][/quote] LOL. Since you are such a stat buff, let's go over the numbers. In 2004, Griffey hit .253 while only managing to suit up for 83 games. Just a tad over half the season. In 2003, he hit .247 while playing in 53 games. In 2002, he hit .264 while playing in an eye popping 70 games. Over that three year span he hit a grand total of 41 home runs, which averages out at about 13 a year. Wow!! Definitely worth 13 million a year. He has stayed healthy this year and I would love to have him if he continued to do so. But if he gets hurt again, season over. Your center field option would be Wily Mo, which would officially make the Reds the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball. So that's a huge financial risk to take on a guy who can't stay healthy and is past his prime anyway. Not sure if you guys are math majors, but spending 4.5 on a 13 a year contract still saves you 8.5 million per year. That kind of money can buy a pretty good pitcher. The logic of keeping a guy because he is your favorite player is what is asinine. Linder fucked up when he gave Barry Larkin a 10 Mil a year deal even though he was clearly not the player he used to be. His baseball men didn't want to do it, but he did it anyway. That's a huge hamstring to put on your club when the guy doesn't earn his salary. Just like Sean Casey and Danny Graves, they were fan favorites and were paid just to keep fans happy. But both have underplayed their contracts by a mile. Any intelligent business trys to get the most out of every dollar they spend. If you don't do that you get run over by the competition. The choice here is keep your fan favorites and continue to be mediocre, or let a financially intelligent team build new stars. I know which one I would choose. I don't necessarily think the Reds can make intelligent decisions in either case, but spending money wisely is a good first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='CarsonDaMan' date='Aug 4 2005, 04:05 PM']LOL. Since you are such a stat buff, let's go over the numbers. In 2004, Griffey hit .253 while only managing to suit up for 83 games. Just a tad over half the season. In 2003, he hit .247 while playing in 53 games. In 2002, he hit .264 while playing in an eye popping 70 games. Over that three year span he hit a grand total of 41 home runs, which averages out at about 13 a year. Wow!! Definitely worth 13 million a year. He has stayed healthy this year and I would love to have him if he continued to do so. But if he gets hurt again, season over. Your center field option would be Wily Mo, which would officially make the Reds the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball. So that's a huge financial risk to take on a guy who can't stay healthy and is past his prime anyway. Not sure if you guys are math majors, but spending 4.5 on a 13 a year contract still saves you 8.5 million per year. That kind of money can buy a pretty good pitcher. The logic of keeping a guy because he is your favorite player is what is asinine. Linder fucked up when he gave Barry Larkin a 10 Mil a year deal even though he was clearly not the player he used to be. His baseball men didn't want to do it, but he did it anyway. That's a huge hamstring to put on your club when the guy doesn't earn his salary. Just like Sean Casey and Danny Graves, they were fan favorites and were paid just to keep fans happy. But both have underplayed their contracts by a mile. Any intelligent business trys to get the most out of every dollar they spend. If you don't do that you get run over by the competition. The choice here is keep your fan favorites and continue to be mediocre, or let a financially intelligent team build new stars. I know which one I would choose. I don't necessarily think the Reds can make intelligent decisions in either case, but spending money wisely is a good first step. [right][post="124712"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] i'm sure OS will reply back, but i want to address some things w/ this post too... we all agree that he sucked for us, until this year (w/ the exception of 2000) our back up CF would be either kearns or freel imo... wily mo only has the speed to do it, but the CF should be your best outfielder and wily just isn't that... griffey is NOT past his prime... injury risk = yes... past prime = hell no... you are fighting for us to give [b]pay[/b] a team to take our best player, for three guys that aren't pitchers.. we are a small market team, so we build from the farm system... alot of us (i'm included at times) think we are the yankess and we can trade away our farm system, for major league talent... we just can't do that... we have to build them up after drafting, or get lucky (like herrang) w/ a trade for a prospect... like i said, if there was a very good pitching prospect in that deal, i would grin and bear it... but there wasn't.. we dont' need more outfielders.. oh yeah, you mention the money we would save, but how did we do w/ the milton deal? up until about 2 or 3 games ago, people were willing to hand him from GABP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarsonDaMan Posted August 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote]oh yeah, you mention the money we would save, but how did we do w/ the milton deal? up until about 2 or 3 games ago, people were willing to hand him from GABP...[/quote] That was definitely a screw up. But looking at Miltons past numbers none of us would have envisioned he be this bad. But either way, I'd still rather see Griffeys money spent on pitching. If it works out like Milton did, then someone needs to be fired. But if it works out the team is instantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='CarsonDaMan' date='Aug 4 2005, 04:31 PM']That was definitely a screw up. But looking at Miltons past numbers none of us would have envisioned he be this bad. But either way, I'd still rather see Griffeys money spent on pitching. If it works out like Milton did, then someone needs to be fired. But if it works out the team is instantly better. [right][post="124746"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] i see what your saying and all... but we have to build from the farm system... not from trading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 [quote name='CarsonDaMan' date='Aug 4 2005, 03:05 PM']LOL. Since you are such a stat buff, let's go over the numbers. In 2004, Griffey hit .253 while only managing to suit up for 83 games. Just a tad over half the season. In 2003, he hit .247 while playing in 53 games. In 2002, he hit .264 while playing in an eye popping 70 games. Over that three year span he hit a grand total of 41 home runs, which averages out at about 13 a year. Wow!! Definitely worth 13 million a year. He has stayed healthy this year and I would love to have him if he continued to do so. But if he gets hurt again, season over. Your center field option would be Wily Mo, which would officially make the Reds the worst defensive outfield in all of baseball. So that's a huge financial risk to take on a guy who can't stay healthy and is past his prime anyway. Not sure if you guys are math majors, but spending 4.5 on a 13 a year contract still saves you 8.5 million per year. That kind of money can buy a pretty good pitcher. The logic of keeping a guy because he is your favorite player is what is asinine. Linder fucked up when he gave Barry Larkin a 10 Mil a year deal even though he was clearly not the player he used to be. His baseball men didn't want to do it, but he did it anyway. That's a huge hamstring to put on your club when the guy doesn't earn his salary. Just like Sean Casey and Danny Graves, they were fan favorites and were paid just to keep fans happy. But both have underplayed their contracts by a mile. Any intelligent business trys to get the most out of every dollar they spend. If you don't do that you get run over by the competition. The choice here is keep your fan favorites and continue to be mediocre, or let a financially intelligent team build new stars. I know which one I would choose. I don't necessarily think the Reds can make intelligent decisions in either case, but spending money wisely is a good first step. [right][post="124712"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Griffey got hurt playing the game the only way he knows how. It was a streak of bad luck. It hasn`t taken away the fact that he is the best player on the team. He only played in 83 games last year...and he still hit 20 HR`s. Hell he has hit 64 HR`s since 2002 even with all of the injuries. Kearns hit 44 HR`s in that same span in about the same amount of games. Casey has hit 49 HR`s since 2002. Adam Dunn hit 46 HR`s had a .266 batting avg. but set a record for strikeouts last year.... he was healthy. Griffey isn`t on the "downside". He is only 35 ...that is still pretty young for a baseball player... Anyway the Reds spent money on pitching...it`s not Griffey`s fault that they sucked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracenuts Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 4 2005, 04:56 PM']Griffey got hurt playing the game the only way he knows how. It was a streak of bad luck. It hasn`t taken away the fact that he is the best player on the team. He only played in 83 games last year...and he still hit 20 HR`s. Hell he has hit 64 HR`s since 2002 even with all of the injuries. Kearns hit 44 HR`s in that same span in about the same amount of games. Casey has hit 49 HR`s since 2002. Adam Dunn hit 46 HR`s had a .266 batting avg. but set a record for strikeouts last year.... he was healthy. Griffey isn`t on the "downside". He is only 35 ...that is still pretty young for a baseball player... Anyway the Reds spent money on pitching...it`s not Griffey`s fault that they sucked... [right][post="124774"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] i wish the NL had a DH then we could have griffey hitting in the DH so he wouldn't risk hurting himself again and then we could have kearn, pena, and dunn in the outfield. i think if we could get some young proven talent for griffey or 2-3 top prospects for him we should jump on the opportunity. since griffey has been here we have won nothing, we havent even been contenders to win anything. i think we need to unload some of are big names for younger prospects so we can contend in 2-3 years. just look at the bengals they unloaded takeo spikes and corey dillion, 2 of there best players and look where we are now, a playoff caliber team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 [quote name='tracenuts' date='Aug 5 2005, 12:30 AM']i wish the NL had a DH then we could have griffey hitting in the DH so he wouldn't risk hurting himself again and then we could have kearn, pena, and dunn in the outfield. i think if we could get some young proven talent for griffey or 2-3 top prospects for him we should jump on the opportunity. since griffey has been here we have won nothing, we havent even been contenders to win anything. i think we need to unload some of are big names for younger prospects so we can contend in 2-3 years. just look at the bengals they unloaded takeo spikes and corey dillion, 2 of there best players and look where we are now, a playoff caliber team [right][post="125068"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] The Reds just unloaded players in 2003... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.