THE WAR ON CHRISTIANS

[Guest Coy Bacon]

The religious right is one of the most effective weapons against the church. They're a bunch of Pharisees who conflate the Kingdom of Heaven with the American Empire and who seek earthly power and influence rather than the testimony of Christ that would make them targets of persectution rather than co-conspirators with people of the type that direct either of the political parties in the U.S. These are people that wittingly or unwittingly are helping corporatist transnationalists aid the spirit and system of antichrist. One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='243111' date='Apr 3 2006, 09:00 PM']The religious right is one of the most effective weapons against the church. They're a bunch of Pharisees who conflate the Kingdom of Heaven with the American Empire and who seek earthly power and influence rather than the testimony of Christ that would make them targets of persectution rather than co-conspirators with people of the type that direct either of the political parties in the U.S. These are people that wittingly or unwittingly are helping corporatist transnationalists aid the spirit and system of antichrist. One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]


Can you teach me to write like that?

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='BengalSIS' post='243127' date='Apr 3 2006, 09:35 PM'][quote name='Coy Bacon' post='243111' date='Apr 3 2006, 09:00 PM']
The religious right is one of the most effective weapons against the church. They're a bunch of Pharisees who conflate the Kingdom of Heaven with the American Empire and who seek earthly power and influence rather than the testimony of Christ that would make them targets of persectution rather than co-conspirators with people of the type that direct either of the political parties in the U.S. These are people that wittingly or unwittingly are helping corporatist transnationalists aid the spirit and system of antichrist. One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]


Can you teach me to write like that?
[/quote]

Coy is either a university professor or an inmate who spends a lot of time at the
prison's library. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]

My man Coy has got some serious vocabulary skills.

Im not going to lie.......
some of the things he says are way over my head. Most of the time I
need a dictionary to comprehend his posts. I really admire the way his
words flow though.

Coy is my buddy. (an dad too [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//32.gif[/img] )

[Jamie_B]

Your going to have to specifiy for me Coy because while I like to think I have some knowledge of my bible, Ill be honest and say I havent read it cover to cover, and even if I had, I'd probabally not remember every single passage.

[quote]One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]

Could you be a bit more specific as to what your talking about?

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='243154' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:11 PM']Your going to have to specifiy for me Coy because while I like to think I have some knowledge of my bible, Ill be honest and say I havent read it cover to cover, and even if I had, I'd probabally not remember every single passage.

[quote]One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]

Could you be a bit more specific as to what your talking about?
[/quote]

I think he may be impying the book of Revelations.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='ONYX' post='243161' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:16 PM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='243154' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:11 PM']
Your going to have to specifiy for me Coy because while I like to think I have some knowledge of my bible, Ill be honest and say I havent read it cover to cover, and even if I had, I'd probabally not remember every single passage.

[quote]One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]

Could you be a bit more specific as to what your talking about?
[/quote]

I think he may be impying the book of Revelations.
[/quote]


The whole book is a prophacy, your gonna have to be a more specific so I can track down what hes talking about better.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]War on Christians[/quote]





[b]If Only ....[/b]

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='243165' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:20 PM'][quote name='sneaky' post='243161' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:16 PM']
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='243154' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:11 PM']
Your going to have to specifiy for me Coy because while I like to think I have some knowledge of my bible, Ill be honest and say I havent read it cover to cover, and even if I had, I'd probabally not remember every single passage.

[quote]One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]

Could you be a bit more specific as to what your talking about?
[/quote]

I think he may be impying the book of Revelations.
[/quote]


The whole book is a prophacy, your gonna have to be a more specific so I can track down what hes talking about better.
[/quote]


I have an idea of what I think he is talking about, but I am on my to work now.

I will bring my study bible and post what I think once I get to work in about an hour.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='ONYX' post='243177' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:27 PM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='243165' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:20 PM']
[quote name='ONYX' post='243161' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:16 PM']
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='243154' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:11 PM']
Your going to have to specifiy for me Coy because while I like to think I have some knowledge of my bible, Ill be honest and say I havent read it cover to cover, and even if I had, I'd probabally not remember every single passage.

[quote]One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]

Could you be a bit more specific as to what your talking about?
[/quote]

I think he may be impying the book of Revelations.
[/quote]


The whole book is a prophacy, your gonna have to be a more specific so I can track down what hes talking about better.
[/quote]


I have an idea of what I think he is talking about, but I am on my to work now.

I will bring my study bible and post what I think once I get to work in about an hour.
[/quote]


cool.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='243173' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:27 PM'][quote]War on Christians[/quote]





[b]If Only ....[/b]









[/quote]



How are we going to have this revolution together when in the aftermath I'd be scared our desires for these things would be completely oppisite? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='243183' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:30 PM'][quote name='BlackJesus' post='243173' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:27 PM']
[quote]War on Christians[/quote]


[b]If Only ....[/b]





[/quote]


How are we going to have this revolution together when in the aftermath I'd be scared our desires for these things would be completely oppisite? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]
[/quote]


[b]Not to worry Jamie ...

your sect of Christianity will survive the showers .... it is the Pharisees which most of the Christian movement are made up) that the cattle cars will be used for. In fact I think you will find their absence to your liking as it will allow you to follow a closer version of the teachings .... free from the smear run off of the Pat Robertsons of the world. [/b]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='243187' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:37 PM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='243183' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:30 PM']
[quote name='BlackJesus' post='243173' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:27 PM']
[quote]War on Christians[/quote]


[b]If Only ....[/b]





[/quote]


How are we going to have this revolution together when in the aftermath I'd be scared our desires for these things would be completely oppisite? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]
[/quote]


[b]Not to worry Jamie ...

your sect of Christianity will survive the showers .... it is the Pharisees which most of the Christian movement are made up) that the cattle cars will be used for. In fact I think you will find their absence to your liking as it will allow you to follow a closer version of the teachings .... free from the smear run off of the Pat Robertsons of the world. [/b]
[/quote]


Sounds like the land of milk and honey. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='243111' date='Apr 3 2006, 09:00 PM']The religious right is one of the most effective weapons against the church. They're a bunch of Pharisees who conflate the Kingdom of Heaven with the American Empire and who seek earthly power and influence rather than the testimony of Christ that would make them targets of persectution rather than co-conspirators with people of the type that direct either of the political parties in the U.S. These are people that wittingly or unwittingly are helping corporatist transnationalists aid the spirit and system of antichrist. One way or the other they will bring about another fulfillment of Jesus's prophecy regarding people persecuting the church and thinking they're doing God a favor - either through the contagion of their own perverse zeal or through the backlash that rises against their insidious hypocrisy.[/quote]

I will have to do some reading to actually find the verses that illustarates Coy's point but
there are some similarities about "Revalations" in general and the present day world.

[Guest BengalBacker]

What I take from what he's saying, is that the religious right is becoming so overzealous that their actions will make their prophecies of armegeddon self-fulfilling. They will either get enough people to believe as they do to try to enforce their beliefs on everyone else, or they'll piss off enough people that everyone else will rise up against them.

David Koresch prophecied that they would have to take up arms against the government. Then he made sure it happened. Did that make him a prophet, or just someone who saw an end, and found a means to get to that end? Same sort of thing.

[Homer_Rice]

He may be referring to Dominionists....real sick folks....

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='243271' date='Apr 4 2006, 02:46 AM']What I take from what he's saying, is that the religious right is becoming so overzealous that their actions will make their prophecies of armegeddon self-fulfilling. They will either get enough people to believe as they do to try to enforce their beliefs on everyone else, or they'll piss off enough people that everyone else will rise up against them.

David Koresch prophecied that they would have to take up arms against the government. Then he made sure it happened. Did that make him a prophet, or just someone who saw an end, and found a means to get to that end? Same sort of thing.[/quote]


Interesting. I have a slightly, though not that slightly different perspective. I see the litigation, that stems from that hatred, that is going on to slowly shut all christians up in turn allowing for the ideas of chritinanty to fade away in favor of humanism and relativism, and when those ideas are predominate the antichrist will come. Though some may see this a self fufilling by the christian right against all christians, I see it as self fufilling period, meaning its supposed to happen and this is just the way its going to. The Pharsies had their hand in killing Jesus and they will in the end times, but both are supposed to happen and they have to play their role.

The thing that worries me on a personal level is that if I'm around when this happens, and I may not be as I think its something that is its infancy, is that Ill be like Peter and deny the name of Jesus so that I may not have to suffer in his name, because Im not sure Im as strong in my faith that when faced with pysichal harm that I would still stick to the faith at least verbally.

[BigFresh]

Firstly, the concept of a "War on Christianity" is utter bullshit. That [b]vast[/b] majority of Americans consider themselves Christians. (Ridiculous [i]True Christian(tm)[/i] argumentation notwithstanding.) There is no "war on Christianity" except in the minds of its deluded fundamentalists. It's a need to feel persecuted, to play the victim. It's conflated public martyrdom by attempting to expose psychological scars. Pure myth, in short.

[u]Abortion on demand:[/u] Where in the bible does it condemn abortion? (The bible is ostensibly the basis for Christianity, right?) Abortion is a public freedom whether you agree or disagree. Why should a secular government (The US has one of those, remember?) base laws on religion?

[u]Sanctity of marriage:[/u] If your religion forbids a certain type of marriage, no one in the government is stopping you from saying they shouldn't get married. Marriage as a financial partnership has nothing to do with religion. (Remember? Secular government? It's that thing we have. It's a good idea, look at any theocracy ever. They suck.) Also, if you recall, many states - Ohio included - passed retarded constitutional amendments to prevent the possibility of homosexual marriage.

[u]Christianity treated as a second-rate superstition:[/u] Bullshit! Christianity is a FIRST RATE superstition. All kidding aside, when something like %80-%90 of Americans (depending on the poll) identify as Christians, dont you think this is an absurd statement?! I treat Christianity - and every other religion - as the load of baloney it is. I don't discriminate. However, I would NEVER support any law condoning the prevention of the free excercise of any religion as long as it hurts no one that didn't wish to be hurt. ('Hurt' carries many meanings as I say it here. Including forced proselytization.) Freedom of religion and freedom of speech don't have to be mutually exclusive. The position of this conference seems to be that sticks and stones might break bones, but words are like nuclear bombs.

Furthermore, if you have a problem with your beliefs being ridiculed, don't have such ridiculous beliefs. If I told you I believed there was an invisible dragon in the trunk of my Malibu, I shouldn't be surprised when someone calls me out on my belief.

[b]On to other things...[/b]

It's REVELATION. Not "revelations." Also, HOW is it "prophecy?" It is much better described (remember old Occam and his fantastic razor?) as just another piece of [i]apokolypta,[/i] a style of writing popular at the time that dealt with doomsday scenarios. There are many examples that are quite similar that weren't chosen to be included in the bible. In fact, many denominations of Christianity don't include [i]Revelation[/i] in their bible at all. (Enter the "No True Scotsman Fallacy.")

However, dismissing doom-and-gloom aside, it is alarming how many of our elected officials believe in this silliness. Perhaps the concept will be self-fulfilling as previous posters have suggested.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='BigFresh' post='243480' date='Apr 4 2006, 02:29 PM']I treat Christianity - and every other religion - as the load of baloney it is. I don't discriminate.[/quote]


[b]Big Fresh, me, and Backer need to go have some beers [/b]

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='243509' date='Apr 4 2006, 03:40 PM'][quote name='BigFresh' post='243480' date='Apr 4 2006, 02:29 PM']
I treat Christianity - and every other religion - as the load of baloney it is. I don't discriminate.[/quote]


[b]Big Fresh, me, and Backer need to go have some beers [/b]
[/quote]

What am I? Chopped liver?

Ok, so I don't drink beer, but I'll have a little vodka and OJ

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='BengalSIS' post='243512' date='Apr 4 2006, 03:45 PM']What am I? Chopped liver?[/quote]


[b]I don't like to share the woman of my dreams with my friends ....



[/b]

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='243523' date='Apr 4 2006, 04:03 PM'][quote name='BengalSIS' post='243512' date='Apr 4 2006, 03:45 PM']
What am I? Chopped liver?[/quote]


[b]I don't like to share the woman of my dreams with my friends ....



[/b]
[/quote]


Nice recovery

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='BigFresh' post='243480' date='Apr 4 2006, 02:29 PM']Firstly, the concept of a "War on Christianity" is utter bullshit. That [b]vast[/b] majority of Americans consider themselves Christians. (Ridiculous [i]True Christian(tm)[/i] argumentation notwithstanding.) There is no "war on Christianity" except in the minds of its deluded fundamentalists. It's a need to feel persecuted, to play the victim. It's conflated public martyrdom by attempting to expose psychological scars. Pure myth, in short.

[u]Abortion on demand:[/u] Where in the bible does it condemn abortion? (The bible is ostensibly the basis for Christianity, right?) Abortion is a public freedom whether you agree or disagree. Why should a secular government (The US has one of those, remember?) base laws on religion?

[u]Sanctity of marriage:[/u] If your religion forbids a certain type of marriage, no one in the government is stopping you from saying they shouldn't get married. Marriage as a financial partnership has nothing to do with religion. (Remember? Secular government? It's that thing we have. It's a good idea, look at any theocracy ever. They suck.) Also, if you recall, many states - Ohio included - passed retarded constitutional amendments to prevent the possibility of homosexual marriage.

[u]Christianity treated as a second-rate superstition:[/u] Bullshit! Christianity is a FIRST RATE superstition. All kidding aside, when something like %80-%90 of Americans (depending on the poll) identify as Christians, dont you think this is an absurd statement?! I treat Christianity - and every other religion - as the load of baloney it is. I don't discriminate. However, I would NEVER support any law condoning the prevention of the free excercise of any religion as long as it hurts no one that didn't wish to be hurt. ('Hurt' carries many meanings as I say it here. Including forced proselytization.) Freedom of religion and freedom of speech don't have to be mutually exclusive. The position of this conference seems to be that sticks and stones might break bones, but words are like nuclear bombs.

Furthermore, if you have a problem with your beliefs being ridiculed, don't have such ridiculous beliefs. If I told you I believed there was an invisible dragon in the trunk of my Malibu, I shouldn't be surprised when someone calls me out on my belief.

[b]On to other things...[/b]

It's REVELATION. Not "revelations." Also, HOW is it "prophecy?" It is much better described (remember old Occam and his fantastic razor?) as just another piece of [i]apokolypta,[/i] a style of writing popular at the time that dealt with doomsday scenarios. There are many examples that are quite similar that weren't chosen to be included in the bible. In fact, many denominations of Christianity don't include [i]Revelation[/i] in their bible at all. (Enter the "No True Scotsman Fallacy.")

However, dismissing doom-and-gloom aside, it is alarming how many of our elected officials believe in this silliness. Perhaps the concept will be self-fulfilling as previous posters have suggested.[/quote]

where do i start w/ this post......

alright, the overwelming theme of this post is "we don't hate christians, you retarded bible thumpers!!"...

now to answer your questions:

does it say "abortion is wrong" anywhere in the bible... no... but it does so to protect the weakest of our society, which would include the unborn...

about gay marriage, it DOES say that marriage is a sacred pact between God and a man and woman... that is why i am for civil unions, b/c i see the reasoning behind it, yet those that are not religous shouldn't want to make a pact w/ God anyway... let me have my marriage, and you can have your civil union...

and then calling christianity a superstition... that is your opinion... that is not a fact...

then you say this: [i]Furthermore, if you have a problem with your beliefs being ridiculed, don't have such ridiculous beliefs. If I told you I believed there was an invisible dragon in the trunk of my Malibu, I shouldn't be surprised when someone calls me out on my belief.[/i]

what the fuck... i believe that there is a more powerful person in this world, than myself... just b/c you disagree, does that make it all ridiculous? i thnk that anyone that thinks that there isn't something out there bigger and better than yourself, then you have too big of an ego... if you can look at this world full of imperfections, and then look at the earth that has to be perfect to work right, and you tell me how that is possible...

[Guest ONYX]

[color="#3366FF"][b]The only problem that I have with some atheists is when they say stuff like ......[/b][/color]

[i]" Furthermore, if you have a problem with your beliefs being ridiculed, don't have such ridiculous beliefs. If I told you I believed there was an invisible dragon in the trunk of my Malibu, I shouldn't be surprised when someone calls me out on my belief."[/i]

[color="#3366FF"][b]because it sounds no different from when Jerry Falwell says....[/b][/color]

[i]"“If you’re not a born-again Christian, you’re a failure as a human being.”[/i]

[color="#3366FF"][b]Both statements lack sensitivity and tolerance.[/b][/color]

[Jamie_B]

I wasnt aware that I was going to have to make a disclaimer in the posts, bigfresh you seem like an intellegent guy, I would have thought it was inferred that these beliefs I hold are based in a faith. Faith does not require emperaical evidence, otherwise it would not be faith it would be fact. I had assumed that much was obvious. I guess I was mistaken.

Therfore my beliefs based in that faith, tell me that Jesus was real and he was the Son of God and that the Bible is the word of God. So then the things I have poited out that Jesus said about the end times (while I prefer the message of love than the message of armageddon, both exist), comes from that.

You believe its just a story, I belive it to be the truth. Both are beliefs.

Did I really have to point that out or were you just itching for an argument?





Onyx and Rick.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='sneaky' post='243584' date='Apr 4 2006, 05:25 PM'][color="#3366FF"][b]The only problem that I have with some atheists is when they say stuff like ......[/b][/color]

[i]" Furthermore, if you have a problem with your beliefs being ridiculed, don't have such ridiculous beliefs. If I told you I believed there was an invisible dragon in the trunk of my Malibu, I shouldn't be surprised when someone calls me out on my belief."[/i]

[color="#3366FF"][b]because it sounds no different from when Jerry Falwell says....[/b][/color]

[i]"“If you’re not a born-again Christian, you’re a failure as a human being.”[/i]

[color="#3366FF"][b]Both statements lack sensitivity and tolerance.[/b][/color][/quote]

spot on....