Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 [quote name='The Scales' post='272260' date='May 23 2006, 06:55 PM']I don't believe that Aaron ate, injected or snorted steroids of any kind. How about you? You think the Hammer hid in a bathroom stall before a game and rubbed some mystery cream on his ass in an effort to transform those warning track shots into round trippers?[/quote] idk but babe probably stuck some hotdogs up his ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Did anyone hear on 4th&10 yesterday, that a baseball historian stated that if you were to take Ruth's 400 feet/ plus fly-outs and convert to Homeruns, he would of had approx 1,150 HR's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 [quote name='Lawman' post='272512' date='May 24 2006, 09:28 AM']Did anyone hear on 4th&10 yesterday, that a baseball historian stated that if you were to take Ruth's 400 feet/ plus fly-outs and convert to Homeruns, he would of had approx 1,150 HR's [/quote] times change and the pitchers werent as good then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 [center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060523/matson.gif[/img][/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 [center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060522/englehart.gif[/img] [/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 [center][img]http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060523/crowe.gif[/img][/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='272636' date='May 24 2006, 02:36 PM']times change and the pitchers werent as good then.[/quote] Damn Thurman, how old are you Did you catch any games at Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds? Did you see Grover Alexander,Christy Mathewson, Walter "Freight Train" Johnson, Cy Young pitch? Babe Ruth 1914-1935 Yankee Stadium in 1923 Fair pole to Fair pole (left to right) L/Corner = 280.5' L/Short = 395' L/Deep=[b]500'[/b] Center=[b]487'[/b] R/Deep=[b]429'[/b] R/Short=[b]350'[/b] R/Corner=[b]294'[/b] Babe Ruth hit the first Home Run in Yankee Stadium. Information gathered from the Basebal Almanac website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 [quote name='Lawman' post='273003' date='May 25 2006, 08:23 AM']Damn Thurman, how old are you Did you catch any games at Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds? Did you see Grover Alexander,Christy Mathewson, Walter "Freight Train" Johnson, Cy Young pitch? Babe Ruth 1914-1935 Yankee Stadium in 1923 Fair pole to Fair pole (left to right) L/Corner = 280.5' L/Short = 395' L/Deep=[b]500'[/b] Center=[b]487'[/b] R/Deep=[b]429'[/b] R/Short=[b]350'[/b] R/Corner=[b]294'[/b] Babe Ruth hit the first Home Run in Yankee Stadium. Information gathered from the Basebal Almanac website.[/quote] times change, pitchers couldnt throw in the high 80s or the 90s at all for the most part and there wasnt nearly as many pitches to fool a hitter on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273160' date='May 25 2006, 02:16 PM']times change, pitchers couldnt throw in the high 80s or the 90s at all for the most part and there wasnt nearly as many pitches to fool a hitter on...[/quote] You need to stop The mound was higher, their equipment was not as good and the ballparks were bigger. They never humidified the baseballs back then, they spit on them then mixed in a little dirt. Another thing, I truly doubt that a ball would be thrown out and never used again if it was fouled off or merely hitting the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273160' date='May 25 2006, 02:16 PM']times change, pitchers couldnt throw in the high 80s or the 90s at all for the most part and there wasnt nearly as many pitches to fool a hitter on...[/quote] The dominant pitcher of his era, [u]Christy Mathewson won more than 20 games for twelve straight years, including winning 30 or more games for three seasons in a row between 1903 and 1905[/u]. [b]In 1908 he won 37 games[/b], a National League record that still stands. A master craftsman, [b]"Matty" was well known for a screwball-type pitch which was referred to as a "fadeaway", often dominating batters for long periods of time with the pitch. However, Mathewson was certainly not a one-pitch pitcher, as he also had an excellent fastball and changeup, or "slowball" as it was called in Christy's time.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 [quote name='Lawman' post='273169' date='May 25 2006, 02:31 PM']The dominant pitcher of his era, [u]Christy Mathewson won more than 20 games for twelve straight years, including winning 30 or more games for three seasons in a row between 1903 and 1905[/u]. [b]In 1908 he won 37 games[/b], a National League record that still stands. A master craftsman, [b]"Matty" was well known for a screwball-type pitch which was referred to as a "fadeaway", often dominating batters for long periods of time with the pitch. However, Mathewson was certainly not a one-pitch pitcher, as he also had an excellent fastball and changeup, or "slowball" as it was called in Christy's time.[/b][/quote] uh oh 1 guy...him and johnson were beasts and so were a few others, but not many IF any have the stuff that is thrown today. Ruth was extrememly good, but he wasnt the greatest. Id take Bonds, Mays, Gibson over him anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Master Shake Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 [quote name='Lawman' post='273169' date='May 25 2006, 02:31 PM']The dominant pitcher of his era, [u]Christy Mathewson won more than 20 games for twelve straight years, including winning 30 or more games for three seasons in a row between 1903 and 1905[/u]. [b]In 1908 he won 37 games[/b], a National League record that still stands. A master craftsman, [b]"Matty" was well known for a screwball-type pitch which was referred to as a "fadeaway", often dominating batters for long periods of time with the pitch. However, Mathewson was certainly not a one-pitch pitcher, as he also had an excellent fastball and changeup, or "slowball" as it was called in Christy's time.[/b][/quote] The reason pitchers won so many games in those days were because of the innings they were able to pitch because in those days most teams had 2 or 3 sluggers surrounded by scrubs. The depth of talent was no where near what it is today. This allowed good pitchers to coast against the scrubs and save their good stuff for the sluggers or for times they were in a jam. But today they couldn't get away with that shit cause even bottom of the order guys like Brandon Larson and Javier Valentin will take a mistake deep in a second. You can't say the game was harder in the 20's...that just doesn't make sense. The players were slower, weaker, devoted less time to practice, scouting and TV exposure were insignificant. Ruth today would still be able to hit some homers, but with his slow, looping swing, would have a tough time catching up with the gas pitchers throw today. I'd say give him a year to adjust and he could maybe do something like .280 - 35 - 100. Probably could be better if he grew up in the 70s or 80s, since he was no doubt a physical talent. Just the gap between him and your average player would be much smaller today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Well said Mastershake, I keep wondering how players would perform if you put them in different eras and Ive concluded that its pretty much worthless to argue this case because its neverending. But I would LOVE to have seen Ruth play today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 [quote name='dieselman44' post='273657' date='May 26 2006, 01:20 PM']Well said Mastershake, I keep wondering how players would perform if you put them in different eras and Ive concluded that its pretty much worthless to argue this case because its neverending. But I would LOVE to have seen Ruth play today![/quote] i woulda rather seen Gibson, ive always wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 [quote]The depth of talent was no where near what it is today. This allowed good pitchers to coast against the scrubs and save their good stuff for the sluggers or for times they were in a jam. But today they couldn't get away with that shit [u]cause even bottom of the order guys like Brandon Larson and Javier Valentin will take a mistake deep in a second.[/quote][/u] This is were I disagree, IMO some players today would not be able to "GO DEEP" in those gargantuan ballparks and inferior equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273758' date='May 26 2006, 03:59 PM']i woulda rather seen Gibson, ive always wanted to.[/quote] I did, he was over-powering like Don Drysdale.; they both played in the pitchers era (higher mounds). Today's game has evolved to the benefit of hitters. The ten best pitchers as ranked by Tom Seaver. 10 Nolan Ryan 9 Warren Spahn 8 Bob Gibson 7 Steve Carlton 6 Bob Feller 5 Cy Young 4 Lefty Grove 3 Sandy Koufax 2 Christy Mathewson 1 Walter Johnson Edit: He did this in 1994; so you would have to add Roger Clemens, maybe Greg Maddux, not sure if Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling would be on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 The 50 greatest Sluggers of all-time according to the Sporting News: 50 Fred McGriff 49 Dale Murphy 48 Carl Yastrzemski 47 Andre Dawson 46 Eddie Murray 45 Dave Winfield 44 George Foster 43 Jim Rice 42 Boog Powell 41 Chuck Klein 40 Johnny Bench 39 Frank Thomas 38 Ted Kluszewski 37 Greg Luzinski 36 Dick Allen 35 Roger Maris 34 Ernie Banks 33 Hack Wilson 32 Dave Kingman 31 Cecil Fielder 30 Juan Gonzalez [b]29 Barry Bonds[/b] 28 Albert Belle 27 Duke Snider 26 Johnny Mize 25 Stan Musial 24 Joe DiMaggio 23 Rocky Colavito 22 Willie Stargell 21 Sammy Sosa 20 Mel Ott 19 Jose Canseco 18 Frank Howard 17 Eddie Mathews 16 Frank Robinson 15 Hank Greenberg 14 Ralph Kiner 13 Lou Gehrig 12 Ken Griffey, Jr. 11 Willie McCovey 10 Mike Schmidt 9 Ted Williams 8 Reggie Jackson 7 Harmon Killebrew 6 Willie Mays 5 Hank Aaron 4 Mickey Mantle 3 Jimmie Foxx 2 Mark McGwire [b]1 Babe Ruth[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 [b]"The first time I faced him (Walter Johnson) I watched him take that easy windup and then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn't touch him....every one of us knew we'd met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park." [/b] - Ty Cobb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 [quote]Ruth was extrememly good, but he wasnt the greatest. Id take Bonds, Mays, Gibson over him anyday.[/quote] The 100 Greatest players of all time; according to the Sporting News. [i]Disclaimer: This was done in 1998, definately there would be some changes. I would have to move Bonds up the list (within the top ten) barring and steriod issue.[/i] 100Early Wynn 50Roy Campanella 99Paul Molitor 49Tony Gwynn 98Dennis Eckersley 48Reggie Jackson 97Gaylord Perry 47Buck Leonard 96Rollie Fingers 46Charlie Gehringer 95Wade Boggs 45Carl Hubbell 94Dave Winfield 44Jackie Robinson 93Ken Griffey, Jr. 43Al Simmons 92Chuck Klein 42Mel Ott 91Mark McGwire 41Nolan Ryan 90Ralph Kiner 40Yogi Berra 89Goose Goslin 39Greg Maddux 88Frankie Frisch 38Ernie Banks 87Ozzie Smith 37Hank Greenberg 86Kirby Puckett 36Bob Feller 85Dizzy Dean 35Joe Jackson 84Sam Crawford [b] 34 Barry Bonds[/b] 83Duke Snider 33George Sisler 82Ed Walsh 32Tom Seaver 81Willie Stargell 31Bob Gibson 80Brooks Robinson 30Steve Carlton 79Joe Medwick 29Nap Lajoie 78Cal Ripken, Jr. 28Mike Schmidt 77Eddie Murray 27Tris Speaker 76Al Kaline 26Sandy Koufax 75Willie Keeler 25Pete Rose 74Robin Roberts 24Eddie Collins 73Lefty Gomez 23Lefty Grove 72Carl Yastrzemski 22Frank Robinson 71Juan Marichal 21Warren Spahn 70Pie Traynor 20Roberto Clemente 69Harmon Killebrew 19Satchel Paige 68Eddie Plank 18Josh Gibson 67Oscar Charleston 17Mickey Mantle 66Cool Papa Bell 16Johnny Bench 65 Mickey Cochrane 15Jimmie Foxx 64Jim Palmer 14Cy Young 63Eddie Mathews 13Honus Wagner 62Paul Waner 12Grover Alexander 61Rod Carew 11Joe DiMaggio 60Joe Morgan 10Stan Musial 59Bill Terry 9Rogers Hornsby 58Lou Brock 8Ted Williams 57Bill Dickey 7Christy Mathewson 56Willie McCovey 6Lou Gehrig 55George Brett 5Hank Aaron 54Harry Heilmann 4Walter Johnson 53Roger Clemens 3Ty Cobb 52Whitey Ford 2Willie Mays 51Rickey Henderson [b]1Babe Ruth[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='271447' date='May 22 2006, 04:56 PM']well said. I agree with all that, but i pray Pujols doesnt near it cuz i hate that man. He needs to randomly start sucking all of a sudden in a couple of years. those are interesting figures for all those Bonds haters.[/quote] People don't hate Bonds because he used steroids they hate him because he is an asshole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 [quote name='Nati Ice' post='271462' date='May 22 2006, 01:28 PM']yea, because obviously mvp is THE guage to go by when assessing talent mvp is a popularity contest[/quote] bonds isnt popular, everyone hates him, so thats a dumb statement. Bonds is better. He did everything and anything and did it better than anyone. [quote name='Lawman' post='274077' date='May 27 2006, 05:30 PM']I did, he was over-powering like Don Drysdale.; they both played in the pitchers era (higher mounds). Today's game has evolved to the benefit of hitters. The ten best pitchers as ranked by Tom Seaver. 10 Nolan Ryan 9 Warren Spahn 8 Bob Gibson 7 Steve Carlton 6 Bob Feller 5 Cy Young 4 Lefty Grove 3 Sandy Koufax 2 Christy Mathewson 1 Walter Johnson Edit: He did this in 1994; so you would have to add Roger Clemens, maybe Greg Maddux, not sure if Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling would be on there.[/quote] i was talking about Josh Gibson but u HAVE to add Maddux cuz he is better than most of that list. [quote name='Lawman' post='274085' date='May 27 2006, 05:53 PM']The 50 greatest Sluggers of all-time according to the Sporting News: 50 Fred McGriff 49 Dale Murphy 48 Carl Yastrzemski 47 Andre Dawson 46 Eddie Murray 45 Dave Winfield 44 George Foster 43 Jim Rice 42 Boog Powell 41 Chuck Klein 40 Johnny Bench 39 Frank Thomas 38 Ted Kluszewski 37 Greg Luzinski 36 Dick Allen 35 Roger Maris 34 Ernie Banks 33 Hack Wilson 32 Dave Kingman 31 Cecil Fielder 30 Juan Gonzalez [b]29 Barry Bonds[/b] 28 Albert Belle 27 Duke Snider 26 Johnny Mize 25 Stan Musial 24 Joe DiMaggio 23 Rocky Colavito 22 Willie Stargell 21 Sammy Sosa 20 Mel Ott 19 Jose Canseco 18 Frank Howard 17 Eddie Mathews 16 Frank Robinson 15 Hank Greenberg 14 Ralph Kiner 13 Lou Gehrig 12 Ken Griffey, Jr. 11 Willie McCovey 10 Mike Schmidt 9 Ted Williams 8 Reggie Jackson 7 Harmon Killebrew 6 Willie Mays 5 Hank Aaron 4 Mickey Mantle 3 Jimmie Foxx 2 Mark McGwire [b]1 Babe Ruth[/b][/quote] this is a shitty list LOL!!! Mcgwire 2? Bonds is a HELL of a lot better than mcgwire and there is ATLEAST 100 hitters id rather have the Mcgwire. This list is embarassing. [quote name='Lawman' post='274104' date='May 27 2006, 06:25 PM']The 100 Greatest players of all time; according to the Sporting News. [i]Disclaimer: This was done in 1998, definately there would be some changes. I would have to move Bonds up the list (within the top ten) barring and steriod issue.[/i] 100Early Wynn 50Roy Campanella 99Paul Molitor 49Tony Gwynn 98Dennis Eckersley 48Reggie Jackson 97Gaylord Perry 47Buck Leonard 96Rollie Fingers 46Charlie Gehringer 95Wade Boggs 45Carl Hubbell 94Dave Winfield 44Jackie Robinson 93Ken Griffey, Jr. 43Al Simmons 92Chuck Klein 42Mel Ott 91Mark McGwire 41Nolan Ryan 90Ralph Kiner 40Yogi Berra 89Goose Goslin 39Greg Maddux 88Frankie Frisch 38Ernie Banks 87Ozzie Smith 37Hank Greenberg 86Kirby Puckett 36Bob Feller 85Dizzy Dean 35Joe Jackson 84Sam Crawford [b] 34 Barry Bonds[/b] 83Duke Snider 33George Sisler 82Ed Walsh 32Tom Seaver 81Willie Stargell 31Bob Gibson 80Brooks Robinson 30Steve Carlton 79Joe Medwick 29Nap Lajoie 78Cal Ripken, Jr. 28Mike Schmidt 77Eddie Murray 27Tris Speaker 76Al Kaline 26Sandy Koufax 75Willie Keeler 25Pete Rose 74Robin Roberts 24Eddie Collins 73Lefty Gomez 23Lefty Grove 72Carl Yastrzemski 22Frank Robinson 71Juan Marichal 21Warren Spahn 70Pie Traynor 20Roberto Clemente 69Harmon Killebrew 19Satchel Paige 68Eddie Plank 18Josh Gibson 67Oscar Charleston 17Mickey Mantle 66Cool Papa Bell 16Johnny Bench 65 Mickey Cochrane 15Jimmie Foxx 64Jim Palmer 14Cy Young 63Eddie Mathews 13Honus Wagner 62Paul Waner 12Grover Alexander 61Rod Carew 11Joe DiMaggio 60Joe Morgan 10Stan Musial 59Bill Terry 9Rogers Hornsby 58Lou Brock 8Ted Williams 57Bill Dickey 7Christy Mathewson 56Willie McCovey 6Lou Gehrig 55George Brett 5Hank Aaron 54Harry Heilmann 4Walter Johnson 53Roger Clemens 3Ty Cobb 52Whitey Ford 2Willie Mays 51Rickey Henderson [b]1Babe Ruth[/b][/quote] this list is pathetic, where does the sporting news find these morons? [quote name='Storm' post='274156' date='May 27 2006, 10:37 PM']People don't hate Bonds because he used steroids they hate him because he is an asshole[/quote] i know this, but he is still a badass and i love him for all of his actions towards the media. I back everything Bonds ever did/said to the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 [quote]this is a shitty list LOL!!! Mcgwire 2? Bonds is a HELL of a lot better than mcgwire and there is ATLEAST 100 hitters id rather have the Mcgwire. This list is embarassing.[/quote] If this based on your on personal opinion, to each his own. I'll use Aaron for comparison. [u]Aaron[/u] Years-23; Games-3,298; AB-[b]12,364[/b]; HR's-755; Slug.%-.[b]555[/b] [u]Mcgwire[/u] Years-16; Games-1,874; AB-[b]6,187[/b];HR's-583; Slug.%-.[b]588[/b] So, if you give Mcgwire the same amount of At-Bats as Aaron, Mcgwire would have 6,177 more At-Bats. Take 6,177 and divide by a [u]conservative[/u] (1HR per 20AB's); Mcgwire would have 309 more HR's. Mcgwire would of had [b]892[/b] HR's. BTW, Mcwire's actual At-Bat/HR's ratio for his career was 10.6; Aaron's was 16.4. [b]"Any time a guy that big steps up to the plate - they're very few and far between, thank God - it's kind of hard not to notice him standing there. The sun just disappears for a while." - Kevin Brown[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 [quote]but u HAVE to add Maddux cuz he is better than most of that list.[/quote] I like Maddux; Great Pitcher on very good teams (Braves of the 90's). Ryan and Carlton played on shitty teams, but would dominate. Who would you place Maddux ahead of on the list; and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 My son played in the Virginia U14 AAU State Qualifier this weekend. Great weekend; he hit [b].714[/b] Irony is in the number [b]714[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 [quote]this list is pathetic, where does the sporting news find these morons?[/quote] [b]The Sporting News is nothing short of the most respected and legendary magazine / newspaper in sports history. Their coverage of baseball has [u]no rival [/u] and they are simply the most respected source of baseball statistics anywhere and magor contributor towards the Baseball Almanac[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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