STRANGER THAN FICTION

[Abu-Zayd]

Here is the[url="http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm"] LINK [/url] to the entire paper, with footnotes/bibliography.

Here is a section:

[size=4][url="http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm"]HUNDREDS OF MOSSAD AGENTS RUNNING WILD IN AMERICA![/url] [/size]

We talked at length about the five Israeli "movers", i.e. Mossad agents, who were arrested and placed in solitary confinement after they were caught celebrating the 9-11 horror show. We also reviewed how the Israeli owner of Urban Moving Systems - Dominick Suter - then suddenly abandoned his "moving company" and fled for Israel on 9-14. But there were still more Israeli "movers" in America whose actions raise serious suspicions.

In October of 2001, three more Israeli "movers" were stopped in Plymouth, PA because of their suspicious behavior. These "movers" were seen dumping furniture near a restaurant dumpster! When the restaurant manager approached the driver, a "Middle Eastern" man later identified as Moshe Elmakias fled the scene. 151 The manager made note of the truck's sign which read "Moving Systems Incorporated" and called the police. When the police spotted the truck, two other Israelis - Ayelet Reisler and Ron Katar began acting suspiciously.152 The Plymouth police searched the truck and found a video. The Israelis were taken into custody and the video tape was played at the police station. The video revealed footage of Chicago with zoomed in shots of the Sears Tower. 153 The police quickly alerted the FBI and it was also discovered that the Israelis had falsified travel logs and phony paperwork on them.154 They were also unable to provide a name and telephone number for the customer that they claimed to have been working for. These Israelis were up to some sort of dirty business, and you can be sure it had nothing to do with moving furniture.

On October 10, 2001, CNN made a brief mention of a foiled terrorist bomb plot in the Mexican Parliament building. They promised to bring any further developments of this story to their viewers, but the incident was never heard of again in America. But the story appeared in bold headlines on the front page of the major Mexican newspapers 155 and was also posted on the official website of the Mexican Justice Department. 156 Two terrorist suspects were apprehended in the Mexican Chamber of Deputies. Caught red-handed, they had in their possession a high powered gun, nine hand grenades, and C-4 plastic explosives (great stuff for demolishing buildings!) 157 Within days, this blockbuster story not only disappeared from the Mexican press, but the terrorists were released and deported! The two terrorists were Salvador Gerson Sunke and Sar ben Zui. Can you guess what their ethnicity was? Gerson Sunke was a Mexican jew and Zui was a colonel with the Israeli special forces. 158 Can you say "Mossad?" The story in El Diario de Mexico went on to reveal that the Zionist terrorists had fake Pakistani passports on them. 159 Can you say "false flag operation?" The probable motive of this particular botched terrorist operation was to involve oil rich Mexico in the "War on Terrorism" (The War on Israel's enemies would be a more accurate description). Mexico is no military power, but the psychological trauma of an "Arab" attack on Mexico would surely have induced Mexico to provide unlimited cheap oil to her American "protector". With cheap oil flowing to America at rock bottom prices from Mexico, the US could better afford to break off relations with the oil rich Arabs in general and Saudi Arabia in particular. That‘s why the conspiracy chose so many Saudi identities to steal for the 9-11 operation..

In November of 2001, 6 more suspicious Israelis were detained in an unspecified mid-eastern state. They had in their possession box cutters, oil pipeline plans, and nuclear power plant plans. The local police called in the Feds and Immigration officials took over the scene and released the men without calling the FBI. The Jerusalem Post, the Miami Herald, 162 and the Times of London 163 all carried this amazing story and all revealed how furious FBI officials were that these suspects with nuclear power plant plans were allowed to go free. Of course, the corruption riddled FBI would only have caved into Zionist pressure from the Justice Department’s Criminal Division boss, Michael Chertoff, and also from the ADL’s "partner", FBI boss Robert Mueller - who would no doubt have found a way to release those Israeli terror suspects too.

In December of 2001, the Los Angeles Times published the story of how two jewish terrorists were arrested by the FBI for plotting to blow up the office of US Congressman of Arab descent - Darrell Issa (R-CA), and also a California mosque. 164 Irv Rubin and Earl Kruger of the radical Zionist Jewish Defense League (JDL) were charged with conspiracy to destroy a building by means of explosives. This story got brief national coverage but quickly disappeared too. These Zionists sure love blowing up buildings and killing innocent people don't they?

In May of 2002, yet another moving van was pulled over in Oak Harbor, Washington near the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. Fox News reported that the van was pulled over for speeding shortly after midnight. The passengers told the police they were delivering furniture, but because it was so late at night, the police weren't buying the story. A bomb sniffing dog was brought in and the dog detected the presence of TNT and RDX plastic explosives in the truck (great stuff for demolishing buildings!) Both Fox News 165 and the Ha'aretz newspaper of Israel 166 Reported that the two "movers" were Israelis.

According to FOX news, throughout late 2000 and 2001, a total of 200 Israeli spies were arrested. 167 It was the largest spy ring to be uncovered in the history of the US. The Washington Post also reported that some of these Israelis were arrested in connection with the 9-11 investigation. 168 US. Carl Cameron of FOX News Channel did a excellent four part, nationally televised, series of investigations into this blockbuster scandal. But FOX pulled the investigative series after Zionist groups complained to FOX executives. FOX even went so far as to remove the written transcripts of the series from its website! In it’s place was posted a chilling, Orwellian message which reads: "This story no longer exists." 169 Fortunately for the sake of history, the FOX transcripts were copied onto to many other websites and all four parts are available for your review. (see footnotes.)

The FOX series and other mainstream news media sources revealed that many of these Israelis were army veterans with electronics and explosives expertise. Many of them failed lie detector tests. FBI agents told FOX that some of their past investigations were compromised because suspects had been tipped off by Israeli wiretapping specialists. It was discovered that Israeli companies such as Comverse and Amdocs have the capability to tap American telephones (great for blackmailing all those wife-cheating politicians!) FBI agents also told FOX they believed the Israelis had advance knowledge of the 9-11 attacks. (which certainly would explain why no Israelis died in the WTC) Still another US official informed FOX that some of the detained Israelis actually had links to 9-11, but he refused to describe the nature of those links. The FBI official told FOX's Carl Cameron:

"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about the evidence that has been gathered. It is classified information." 170

Then there was that small army of Israeli "art students" who were arrested for trying to sneak into secured US Federal buildings and staking out 36 Department of Defense sites. Some of these suspicious "art students" even showed up at the homes of Federal employees. 171 Ron Hatchett, a Department of Defense analyst, told Channel 11, KHOU news in Houston that he believed that the "art students" were gathering intelligence for future attacks. Here’s an excerpt from the October 1, 2001 KHOU investigative report by Anna Werner:

"Could federal buildings in Houston and other cities be under surveillance by foreign groups? That's what some experts are asking after federal law enforcement and security officials - nationally and in Houston - described for the 11 News Defenders a curious pattern of behavior by a group of people claiming to be Israeli art students."

"Hatchett says they could be doing what he would be doing if he were a terrorist, sizing up the situation: "We need to know what are the entrances to this particular building. We need to know what are the surveillance cameras that are operating. We need to know how many guards are at this operation, when do they take breaks?" Says Hatchett: "This is not a bunch of kids selling artwork."

"A former Defense Department analyst, Hatchett believes groups may be gathering intelligence for possible future attacks. "Some organization, thinking in terms of a potential retaliation against the U.S. government could be scouting out potential targets and looking for targets that would be vulnerable."

And a source tells the Defenders of another federal memo, stating that besides Houston and Dallas, the same thing has happened at sites in New York, Florida, and six other states, and even more worrisome, at 36 sensitive Department of Defense sites. "One defense site you can explain," says Hatchett, "well that was just a serendipitous, …….. Thirty-six? That's a pattern." 172

A Federal memo stated that these art students may have had ties to an "Islamic terror group". 173 Remember the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946, and how the "Arab terrorists" were actually Irgun terrorists? Remember the Zionist terrorists caught in Mexico with Arab passports? remember the official motto of the Mossad - By Way of Deception Thou Shalt Do War. Are you getting the picture? Can you say "false flag operations."?

Before his excellent work was silenced, FOX's Cameron reported this amazing bit of information:

"Investigators within the DEA, INS, and FBI have all told FOX News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying is considered career suicide ." 174 (emphasis added)

Did you catch that? If an investigator dares to mention Israeli spying, he has committed career suicide! And if a journalist like FOX's Cameron dares to bring this scandal to light, he is told to shut his mouth. If they persist, they may even be called "anti-Semitic" - a label which has served as the kiss of death for many a journalistic and political career. This means that Zionist Mafia can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and however it wants - including orchestrating, financing, executing, and covering up the true story of events in the Middle East, the 9-11 massacre, and the ensuing "War on Terrorism" (war on Israel's enemies).

Now do you remember the Mossad's "warning" about the 200 "Al-Qaeda terrorists" said to have been preparing major attacks in the US? 175 At the time of this writing, we are one year into the largest investigation in American history, and not one of these 200 "terrorists" has yet to be uncovered. 176 But 200 Israeli spies were uncovered, among them many military members, electronics experts, wiretapping and phone tapping specialists, and explosives experts with the skill to bring down tall buildings. 177 Logic and common sense leads to the conclusion that the "200 Al Qaeda terrorists" were in reality, 200 Zionist terrorists sent to frame the Arabs for terrorist attacks and drag America into a war. History repeats itself. But who will teach this history to the American people when the Zionists control the information industry? The Zionist Mafia and their ass-kissing careerist henchmen in media, government, academia, and business have all of the bases covered.

[img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/bomba.gif[/img][img]http://www.apfn.org/apfn/seattletruck.jpg[/img]

LEFT: FRONT PAGE OF EL DIARIO DE MEXICO SHOWS ISRAELI TERRORISTS BEING ESCORTED OUT OF MEXICAN PARLIAMENT BUILDING
RIGHT: FOX NEWS ALERT TELEVISED REPORT OF TWO ISRAELI "MOVERS" ARRESTED IN WASHINGTON STATE. EXPLSOVES RESIDUE DETECTED IN MOVING VAN.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]It is so crazy that you posted this .... because I recently began reading the book - [size=3][i]Stranger Than Fiction[/i][/size] by Albert D. Pastore, Ph.D. So far it is excellent and has very good citation and research. I am telling you ... every american who wants to understand how Zionists with the PNAC pulled off 9/11 should read this book.



[center][img]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/1893302474.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V65933291_.jpg[/img][/center]


[color="#CC0000"]You can also get the info from the book with photos at this site [/color] [url="http://www.unsaccodicanapa.com/htmlpages/fifth-column.html"]Link[/url]




[color="#CC0000"]buy it here at Amazon ...[/color]

[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893302474/002-4877967-7541644?v=glance&n=283155"]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189330247...glance&n=283155[/url][/b]

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='294532' date='Jul 16 2006, 12:58 AM'][b]It is so crazy that you posted this .... because I recently began reading the book - [size=3][i]Stranger Than Fiction[/i][/size] by Albert D. Pastore, Ph.D. So far it is excellent and has very good citation and research. I am telling you ... every american who wants to understand how Zionists with the PNAC pulled off 9/11 should read this book.[/quote]

I think the chapter I posted is from Pastore's book, which may be a bit more expanded than the paper.

Check the link and see if its the same. It is very good. The anthrax letters are interesting.

AZ

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' post='294543' date='Jul 16 2006, 02:02 AM']I think the chapter I posted is from Pastore's book[/quote]


[b]It is from his book .... excellent stuff [/b]

[|Bunghole|]

So all the government agencies (FBI, CIA, etc) are all in on the fix and allowed this to happen on purpose to "drag" America into a Middle Eastern war...we intentionally allowed Mossad to do this to our NYC buildings. Or, we knew there were Israeli spies in the USA (because we busted those trucks full of munitions and Israeli spies?) and we never considered the possibility that Mossad could have carried this out, we just instantly blamed Islamic terrorist groups without a shred of evidence? Or the evidence to accuse Osama, etc was planted by the Mossad?
Why?
Why would the Israelis want an all out war in the Middle East?
I think all people on the world love their children as I do.
The only way this could happen would be with a MASSIVE government conspiracy at every level, and the truth would have been leaked out by now, surely.
Interesting read though.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='294601' date='Jul 16 2006, 04:07 PM']So all the government agencies (FBI, CIA, etc) are all in on the fix and allowed this to happen on purpose to "drag" America into a Middle Eastern war...we intentionally allowed Mossad to do this to our NYC buildings. Or, we knew there were Israeli spies in the USA (because we busted those trucks full of munitions and Israeli spies?) and we never considered the possibility that Mossad could have carried this out, we just instantly blamed Islamic terrorist groups without a shred of evidence? Or the evidence to accuse Osama, etc was planted by the Mossad?
Why?
Why would the Israelis want an all out war in the Middle East?
I think all people on the world love their children as I do.
The only way this could happen would be with a MASSIVE government conspiracy at every level, and the truth would have been leaked out by now, surely.
Interesting read though.[/quote]
Perhaps the conspiracy *is* leaking out, which is what some of us are trying to get across to the rest. If you're waiting on the media to report it to even consider the possibility fo a conspiracy, though, I 'm pretty sure that ain't gonna happen.

The media are story tellers, nothing more. And they clearly are not interested in telling the entire story. They seem to prefer fairy tales that help the masses sleep at night, leaving them feeling protected by the almighty W. But the truth is no bedtime story, unfortunately.

[|Bunghole|]

But to me the real question, again, is WHY?
Surely base human behaviors such as lust for power and money (or oil) cannot be the reason.
Why would Israel want to get us involved in a war? It was already pretty clear that we had Israel's back no matter what anyway, so why was this necessary?
To precipitate all-out Middle-Eastern war so the Messiah can come?

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='294634' date='Jul 16 2006, 06:13 PM']But to me the real question, again, is WHY?
Surely base human behaviors such as lust for power and money (or oil) cannot be the reason.
Why would Israel want to get us involved in a war? It was already pretty clear that we had Israel's back no matter what anyway, so why was this necessary?
To precipitate all-out Middle-Eastern war so the Messiah can come?
[/quote]
Perhaps using a different example will help to explain why I think this shit goes on.

Why was it necessary for the GOP to tell everyone that repealing the estate tax was going to save family-owned farms across the country when in fact farmers were exempt from it? Perhaps it's because in truth the estate tax was designed specifically to encourage charity among the wealthy and prevent the concentration of wealth in hands of the few. But if you try to repeal it based upon that basis alone, people will see through to the truth, that your actions are motivated by...

GREED. POWER.

Some people really do live by the credo "He who dies with the most toys, wins." Yup, it's pretty damn stoopid since you can't take it with you, but doesn't seem to make much difference...

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='294601' date='Jul 16 2006, 11:07 AM']So all the government agencies (FBI, CIA, etc) are all in on the fix and allowed this to happen on purpose to "drag" America into a Middle Eastern war...[/quote]
The ones "IN ON IT" are a few, at the top of the pyramid. Others are content to follow, though they may sincerely believe that this is not the way to view things. If you ask an intel officer why the US is pursuing such policy, he/she will justify (depending on psychological, financial, family, emotional circumstances) but ultimately, the finger must be pointed to the top of the pyramid, which actually makes the policy. It is known that all intel services are more or less tied together by the associations of people at the top. The others are soldiers who execute, they are not paid to think. Some do think every now and again and leaks are produced or coverup statements are then needed.

Joseph Wilson's debunking the Niger Uranium deal was a leak of valuable REAL info. These happen daily. We see some, we miss much. Anthony Zinni, Marine Corps General made some statements about the "cabal" of 'neo-cons' that are guiding US policy--Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, Chertoff, etc. (Atheistic Jews that are dual-citizens or servants self professed of Israel). Carl Cameron's news stories were serious. They did some work to undo that story. Leaks happen everyday.

[quote]we intentionally allowed Mossad to do this to our NYC buildings. Or, we knew there were Israeli spies in the USA (because we busted those trucks full of munitions and Israeli spies?) and we never considered the possibility that Mossad could have carried this out,[/quote]
There is no WE as you refer to it. The US is not a WE. You and I, we, have to get past the drilled nationalism and discover that you and I, we, are a different sort than the elitists, who are guiding the actions of the major forces of movement in the world.

The US establishment knew about 'foreign elements' conducting surveillance, the field agents reported it, it is what frustrated them. It went unheeded--this was not incompetence of the CIA, it was a decision. Just like the order of Cheney to "Stand down" the aerial defense on the morning of 911. The US knew mossad was working on this project, the US was working on it with them, not WE, the U.S. The field agents busted the trucks with explosives residue with Israeli's. White van in the NY tunnel with Israeli's, arrested. 200 Israeli mossad rounded up...then the phone call comes to the local authorities, FBI is taking over.... white van people and the 200 are deported (allowed to go back home, till the next operation). The Urban Moving Systems, a front for Israeli intelligence operations, packed up the company and left for Israel as soon as they were caught.

The NYC buildings were not OURS. It belonged to Larry Silverstein. HIS buildings. He collected his money on them, and got the money for bldg 7 while in the process. But realistically, look over some history of population control and statements of these elitists about it, then reconsider whether the elitists think twice about taking human life. If it serves the "greater good" of their goals, it is acceptable.

[quote]we just instantly blamed Islamic terrorist groups without a shred of evidence? Or the evidence to accuse Osama, etc was planted by the Mossad?[/quote]
Islam is the only thing that truly stands in the way of the new world order, do you not realize this? Muslims are the enemy of the elitists, as [b]the ideology of Islam is diametrically opposed to the ideology of the New World Order[/b]...so they use the mass communication media (which they own, as we have shown) to form people's opinions to also hate islam and muslims....this is THEIR fight against islam/God NOT yours, unless you choose to align yourself with the elitists, for whatever reason. As far as evidence being concocted, consider the real evidence: the metal debris of the collapse was removed immediately without investigation.... the blackbox evidence is gone (a 4 minute tape released is NOT sufficient), the video's available from around the Pentagon is gone.... there is no way to know who the hijackers were, since the ID's found were phony... hell many of these guys are STILL living.

the steel towers melted, but the passport of the "hijacker" was found a block away, not destroyed?? It is paper!! The car the hijackers 'left abandoned' in the airport parking lot, with the Qur'an, arabic flight manual, and a threat letter to America and Israel??? They found that car amongst the thousand cars in the lot on THAT SAME DAY... and the pilots of the planes studies flight manuals on the way to the airport? Cramming for the exam?? lol. The video of bin laden admitting to it was a horrendous fabrication..... this is just the tip of the iceberg.... there were so many planted and fabricated things. Look at Van Romero's stance flip flop, and Orwell did not write the script of that.

[quote]Why?
Why would the Israelis want an all out war in the Middle East?
I think all people on the world love [b]their[/b] children as I do.
The only way this could happen would be with a MASSIVE government conspiracy at every level[/quote]
Look at the world now. "Instability" is the catchword. Notice it. Where there is instability, the elitists have a 'reason' to go in and 'straighten' it out. They can maintain some plausibility by claiming they are 'retaliating' or 'pre-emptively' attacking... Most sectarian warfare is initiated by intel operations. former operatives have come forward about this after they have quit the intel agencies....that they were paid to wear arab clothes and commit acts of 'terror'... many have been caught in the act... even in Iraq.... The map of Israel, according to the elders, encompasses much of the surrounding nations. Israel is a base for the elitists, to base operations against Islam/muslims from their own lands.

More important than anything else are the statements of these scoundrels. "They have attacked us, because we have freedom, and they hate freedom". The THEY they talk about is ME. I am the hardcore muslim they speak of. I hate the freedom of the US?? What nonsense. I have lived in Pakistan. There was more freedom there than Americans can even imagine here today. Pakistan is becoming more like USA over the course of the last few decades (so goes the New World Order), but the people over there don't give a damn about how Americans live.... THey just want to be left alone by the US or anyone else, to live life in accordance with the prescriptions of Allah Almighty. Nowadays, the TV foments things there as well, and the politicians are in the hands of OR think they have joined the elitists.

Enough for now.

AZ

[JBandJoeyV]

Ok, AZ, if this is true like you and BJ and other seem to believe...wouldnt the United States be just as much to blame as the Isrealis and jews...you guys make it seem like if this was true the US would just march into Israel and start fighting all of them even though the US government is supposedly involved. My point is people like you and BJ and others need to start thinking that if any of this is true its not just the Jews and Israelis that are going to be blamed, its the US government, Bush and Cheney and all those other christians in the government. Basically the US would turn into the laughing stock of the world if it was found out that we planned a terrorist attack on ourselves.

I still dont belive any of this is true, but if it was, you guys need to stop blaming the jews and israelis and start blaming the entire United States of America...

[TheBZ]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='294634' date='Jul 16 2006, 01:13 PM']But to me the real question, again, is WHY?
Surely base human behaviors such as lust for power and money (or oil) cannot be the reason.
Why would Israel want to get us involved in a war? It was already pretty clear that we had Israel's back no matter what anyway, so why was this necessary?
To precipitate all-out Middle-Eastern war so the Messiah can come?
[/quote]

I think asking WHY is a good place to start...

To me, it makes sense to keep Public Relations going the right way. It's what any good business owner would do...and that's what Information Operations do for the business/political interests we are talking about.

It's the same with coffee or fast food...Sure, people are going to go to MacDonald's because it is there...But the advertising and promotion keeps on pumping, regardless. You have to tend to your interests, grow them, brand and re-brand them, and package them for the world in the way you believe they will be most consumable.

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' post='294643' date='Jul 16 2006, 01:38 PM']More important than anything else are the statements of these scoundrels. "They have attacked us, because we have freedom, and they hate freedom". The THEY they talk about is ME. I am the hardcore muslim they speak of. I hate the freedom of the US?? What nonsense. I have lived in Pakistan. There was more freedom there than Americans can even imagine here today. Pakistan is becoming more like USA over the course of the last few decades (so goes the New World Order), but the people over there don't give a damn about how Americans live.... THey just want to be left alone by the US or anyone else, to live life in accordance with the prescriptions of Allah Almighty. Nowadays, the TV foments things there as well, and the politicians are in the hands of OR think they have joined the elitists.[/quote]

I can see what you are saying about oppositional elements in Islam...But I think you might be losing a bit of objectivity on that front, and internalizing the greater struggle.

I think this is understandable, and even justifiable, in light of the way that Islam has been put in the middle of the crossfire.

But I think the focus on Islam is more symptomatic as a target, rather than being the focus.

When it comes down to it, all wars are about fronts and ideologies. Islam is the ideology which is making it difficult to consume and exploit the front that is being attacked. So...If you want to help your attack, you work to weaken the ideology.

[b]i·de·ol·o·gy (ī'dē-ŏl'ə-jē, ĭd'ē-)

[i]1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.[/b][/i]

If the front is working to secure interests in Venezuela, the ideology is a resurgent form of democratic socialism...So you would try to attack that to soften up the front.

Obviously, there has been a great amount of ink used to weaken the global view of Islam, and to generate a Pavlovian response that causes the public to imagine suicide bombers, radical clerics, and a chanting militant populace.

But I don't think you should pin all of that unjust press on the concept of 'Islam as the only valid opposition' to this economic and class warfare. Because if that were true, the only voices speaking against the aggression/oppression would be your own.

Just something to think about...

BZ

[RoyT]

I think this whole thing is going to go down just as the JFK assasination did with no real clear answer as to what happened. At the time I was deployed to Iraq in early 2003 I was sure it was done by Bin Laden and Alqueda, now days who really knows for sure cept those who are at the top of the situation. I've always swung more to the right and being a repub. but I purposely shy away from the conversations in this forum because people are too quick to hate on those that ask why, or bring up other scenerios that could have possibly played a part in 9/11. I applaud BJ, and others for their research and compassion to get to the bottom of it. Just because I'm not a full believer (but now days very uncertain for sure) of a giant consperacy, I find BJs posts to be very interesting, and who knows he may very well be on to something. I don't think he ever wanted to argue and call names, but just bring up topics that could be maturely debated, and as a person who loves a great debate I thank him for the time he spends finding differant thoughts that can make for great discussion. I just ordered this book myself because I for one have been drawn into wanting to know more about this new paradigmn that we have been reading about here lately. This is gonna be our generations JFK and I want to know all about it so I can give my grandchildren an educated response someday when they ask me what really happened.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='294645' date='Jul 16 2006, 01:50 PM']Ok, AZ, if this is true like you and BJ and other seem to believe...wouldnt the United States be just as much to blame as the Isrealis and jews...you guys make it seem like if this was true the US would just march into Israel and start fighting all of them even though the US government is supposedly involved. My point is people like you and BJ and others need to start thinking that if any of this is true its not just the Jews and Israelis that are going to be blamed, its the US government, Bush and Cheney and all those other christians in the government. Basically the US would turn into the laughing stock of the world if it was found out that we planned a terrorist attack on ourselves.

I still dont belive any of this is true, but if it was, you guys need to stop blaming the jews and israelis and start blaming the entire United States of America...[/quote]


[b]Can you read ? ..... no one is saying "Jews" are to blame .... and no one is saying that "Israel" as a nation is to blame ....

ZIONISTS and the PNAC carried out 9/11 ....

The PNAC encompasses Cheney, Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and a host of Zionists. Also the bush admin had 25 mostly Zionists in his cabinet and inner circle that were key in putting it together. There isn't even more than 100 people all together in on the whole thing .... and why is this so hard to believe ....

hell at present we believe it was put together by a guy with one kidney fucking a sheep in a cave in Afghanistan who denied doing it .... as if that is anymore realistic.

Quit with the "Stop blaming the Jews" bit ... because no one is doing that .... = I hate Zionism and Israel not Judaism .... Some of the best allies against Zionism are in fact rabbinical and hasidic Jews. It is Zionism which spreads anti-Jew feelings throughout the world ... and thus all Jews should see that it is the cancer unfairly creating ill will towards an entire faith. [/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='RoyT' post='294673' date='Jul 16 2006, 03:54 PM']I think this whole thing is going to go down just as the JFK assasination did with no real clear answer as to what happened. At the time I was deployed to Iraq in early 2003 I was sure it was done by Bin Laden and Alqueda, now days who really knows for sure cept those who are at the top of the situation. I've always swung more to the right and being a repub. but I purposely shy away from the conversations in this forum because people are too quick to hate on those that ask why, or bring up other scenerios that could have possibly played a part in 9/11. I applaud BJ, and others for their research and compassion to get to the bottom of it. Just because I'm not a full believer (but now days very uncertain for sure) of a giant consperacy, I find BJs posts to be very interesting, and who knows he may very well be on to something. I don't think he ever wanted to argue and call names, but just bring up topics that could be maturely debated, and as a person who loves a great debate I thank him for the time he spends finding differant thoughts that can make for great discussion. I just ordered this book myself because I for one have been drawn into wanting to know more about this new paradigmn that we have been reading about here lately. This is gonna be our generations JFK and I want to know all about it so I can give my grandchildren an educated response someday when they ask me what really happened.[/quote]


[b]1. Thanks, I am glad that you enjoy my posts

2. I am happy to hear you ordered the book , you will not be able to put it down and be prepared to feel very frustrated after reading it ... especially when you watch the News and start to see all the ways they lie

3. Your line about your grandchildren is a great one.

4. Prepare to be attacked as brainwashed by BJ propaganda.[/b]

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='RoyT' post='294673' date='Jul 16 2006, 08:54 PM']I think this whole thing is going to go down just as the JFK assasination did with no real clear answer as to what happened. At the time I was deployed to Iraq in early 2003 I was sure it was done by Bin Laden and Alqueda, now days who really knows for sure cept those who are at the top of the situation. I've always swung more to the right and being a repub. but I purposely shy away from the conversations in this forum because people are too quick to hate on those that ask why, or bring up other scenerios that could have possibly played a part in 9/11. I applaud BJ, and others for their research and compassion to get to the bottom of it. Just because I'm not a full believer (but now days very uncertain for sure) of a giant consperacy, I find BJs posts to be very interesting, and who knows he may very well be on to something. I don't think he ever wanted to argue and call names, but just bring up topics that could be maturely debated, and as a person who loves a great debate I thank him for the time he spends finding differant thoughts that can make for great discussion. I just ordered this book myself because I for one have been drawn into wanting to know more about this new paradigmn that we have been reading about here lately. This is gonna be our generations JFK and I want to know all about it so I can give my grandchildren an educated response someday when they ask me what really happened.[/quote]
Good for you. That's how I try and approach this stuff as well. I look forward to finding out what you're learning along the way. I hope you'll pass it on.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='294634' date='Jul 16 2006, 01:13 PM']But to me the real question, again, is WHY?[/quote]


[b]The Zionists and PNAC had several motives ....

1. A free pass to use the US military to craft the Middle East in Israels and the US's favor (I believe the real intention was to attack and change regimes in Iraq, Iran, and Syria by now ... but they underestimated the fight in Iraq. The PNAC lists Israeli objevtives for the U.S.

2. The ones with oil connections wanted to take huge swaths of Iraqi oil off line ... making the price skyrocket and oil profits soar ... (notice it wasn't about taking oil ... but stoping the flow of oil).

3. To secure the Haifa pipeline going from Kirkuk Iraq to haifa Israel .... however resistance at this point has made restoring it almost impossible ... however the US is building bases along the line to ensure Israel gets the largest oil deposit in the world under Kirkuk

4. The more than 2 trillion dollars in the Pentagon that were said that they couldn't be accounted for that were siphoned off by the Zionists themselves and taken for Mossad ops.

5. The more than 400 billion in Gold that dissapeared from the WTC ... I am sure this got spread around

6. A guaranteed victory in 04 for Bush so that he could get more of his economic policies through and looting of the treasury ... A so called War on Terror would make this victory possible out of fear

7. An erosion of US civil liberties and the passage of the patriot act ... Neocons from the PNAC wanted this for a long time ... but needed a tragedy to get it through. Zionists also like this act because it makes it hard for those fighting against the Zionist cabal in the US to speak out without being found and detained.

and many many more .................

trust me the motives are there ... and many more rational ones ... than a guy in a cave thinking he can defeat the entire 300 million people in America through knocking down a few of her buildings .... knowing good and well that afterwards ... the US would have a pass to dismantle his entire network. [/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="#CC0000"][b]Also Bung ... why don't you read the book ... and then make up your mind .... Hell I'll buy you the damn book if you want so you can read it .... because I know that these ideas and theories add up. [/b] [/color]

[RoyT]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='294678' date='Jul 16 2006, 08:01 PM'][b]1. Thanks, I am glad that you enjoy my posts

2. I am happy to hear you ordered the book , you will not be able to put it down and be prepared to feel very frustrated after reading it ... especially when you watch the News and start to see all the ways they lie

3. Your line about your grandchildren is a great one.

4. Prepare to be attacked as brainwashed by BJ propaganda.[/b][/quote]

Speaking of being brainwashed, I was brain washed like many americans after 9/11, I remember dureing my first month in Iraq we pretty much followed lima company, and our MP division was responsible for transporting all prisoners captured by lima to holding facilities. But the first month was just boring hell I remember we all would just sit in the back of he Bradlys all day saying stuff like why don't we just nukem and go home call it a day. And this mind set is still very previlant among many, dare I say most Americans today. I didn't know it at the time but I was brain washed into believing that these people (iraqi citizens) where sub-human and felt no pity for them. But that quickly began to change once we started going door to door doing weapons raids. I got to see how the people there lived. I was so touched by there hospitality, many of the women would not let us leave until we where fed kinda like going to grandmas. The children really won me over. Seeing their little hands reach up for me to hold them and wanting us to stay and play games with them reminded me very much of my own. I pray every night that they somehow are given a peacfull way of life, and now days I not only worry about the troops safty that are still there but the safty of the children and their familys, cause believe me when I say that they are just as human as us. I'll never let myself be brain washed again, from now on my beliefs are going to be based soley on what I have educated myself thoroughly about instead of just pursueing the beliefs of the main stream (the easy way). I love America cause I know that I'm aloud to believe in what I want and thats the way it's gonna be.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='294601' date='Jul 16 2006, 11:07 AM']So all the government agencies (FBI, CIA, etc) are all in on the fix and allowed this to happen on purpose to "drag" America into a Middle Eastern war...we intentionally allowed Mossad to do this to our NYC buildings. Or, we knew there were Israeli spies in the USA (because we busted those trucks full of munitions and Israeli spies?) and we never considered the possibility that Mossad could have carried this out, we just instantly blamed Islamic terrorist groups without a shred of evidence? Or the evidence to accuse Osama, etc was planted by the Mossad?
Why?
Why would the Israelis want an all out war in the Middle East?
I think all people on the world love their children as I do.
The only way this could happen would be with a MASSIVE government conspiracy at every level, and the [b]truth would have been leaked out by now[/b], surely.
Interesting read though.[/quote]

Truths this big are often hidden in plain sight. They rely on human misperception, credulity, and also upon a fundamental human notion of "goodness"--i.e. "Who in their right mind would be a part of THAT?"

It's not only detective work, but being able to understand what one discovers. For example, what do you think folks talked about [url="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1150355519950&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull"]around these events?[/url] A meeting of PMs and Netanyahu in Colorado with the neocons. Just a few short weeks before all hell breaks loose. Enough to make an accusation? Not without further info, imo. Enough to make one suspicious? Darn tootin'.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]Well whadda ya know .... [size=3]Bill Kristol[/size] the [color="#000099"]founder of the PNAC [/color] (the group who attacked the U.S. on 9/11 with Mossad .... and himself a Zionist Jew .... [u]wrote this yesterday[/u]. Note he is also the CEO of the neocon Weekly Standard that Rush, Hannity, and Co all get their education.


[center][color="#CC0000"]Should be assassinated by the CIA for the sake of America ....[/color]
[img]http://www.crooksandliars.com/images/fox_fns_panel_iraq_civilwar_060226a1.jpg[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [/b] [/center]






[size=3][quote][img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/people/williamkristol.jpg[/img]
[u][b][size=4]It's Our War [/size] [/b]
Bush should go to Jerusalem--and the U.S. should confront Iran.
by William Kristol
The Weekly Standard
07/24/2006 [/u] [/size]


WHY IS THIS ARAB-ISRAELI WAR different from all other Arab-Israeli wars? Because it's not an Arab-Israeli war. Most of Israel's traditional Arab enemies have checked out of the current conflict. The governments of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia are, to say the least, indifferent to the fate of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Palestine Liberation Organization (Fatah) isn't a player. The prime mover behind the terrorist groups who have started this war is a non-Arab state, Iran, which wasn't involved in any of Israel's previous wars.

What's happening in the Middle East, then, isn't just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What's happening is an Islamist-Israeli war. You might even say this is part of the Islamist war on the West--but is India part of the West? Better to say that what's under attack is liberal democratic civilization, whose leading representative right now happens to be the United States.

An Islamist-Israeli conflict may or may not be more dangerous than the old Arab-Israeli conflict. Secular Arab nationalism was, after all, also capable of posing an existential threat to Israel. And the Islamist threat to liberal democracy may or may not turn out to be as dangerous as the threats posed in the last century by secular forms of irrationalism (fascism) and illiberalism (communism). But it is a new and different threat. One needs to keep this in mind when trying to draw useful lessons from our successes, and failures, in dealing with the threats of the 20th century.

Here, however, is one lesson that does seem to hold: States matter. Regimes matter. Ideological movements become more dangerous when they become governing regimes of major nations. Communism became really dangerous when it seized control of Russia. National socialism became really dangerous when it seized control of Germany. Islamism became really dangerous when it seized control of Iran--which then became, as it has been for the last 27 years, the Islamic Republic of Iran.

No Islamic Republic of Iran, no Hezbollah. No Islamic Republic of Iran, no one to prop up the Assad regime in Syria. No Iranian support for Syria (a secular government that has its own reasons for needing Iranian help and for supporting Hezbollah and Hamas), little state sponsorship of Hamas and Hezbollah. And no Shiite Iranian revolution, far less of an impetus for the Saudis to finance the export of the Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam as a competitor to Khomeini's claim for leadership of militant Islam--and thus no Taliban rule in Afghanistan, and perhaps no Hamas either.

It's of course true that Hamas--an arm of the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood--is at odds ideologically with Shia Iran, and that Shia and Sunni seem inclined to dislike, even slaughter, each other elsewhere in the Middle East. But temporary alliances of convenience are no less dangerous because they are temporary. Tell the Poles of 1939, and the French of 1940, that they really had little to worry about because the Nazi-Soviet pact was bound to fall apart.

The war against radical Islamism is likely to be a long one. Radical Islamism isn't going away anytime soon. But it will make a big difference how strong the state sponsors, harborers, and financiers of radical Islamism are. Thus, our focus should be less on Hamas and Hezbollah, and more on their paymasters and real commanders--Syria and Iran. And our focus should be not only on the regional war in the Middle East, but also on the global struggle against radical Islamism.

For while Syria and Iran are enemies of Israel, they are also enemies of the United States. We have done a poor job of standing up to them and weakening them. They are now testing us more boldly than one would have thought possible a few years ago. Weakness is provocative. We have been too weak, and have allowed ourselves to be perceived as weak.

The right response is renewed strength--in supporting the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, in standing with Israel, and in pursuing regime change in Syria and Iran. For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait? Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained? That the current regime will negotiate in good faith? It would be easier to act sooner rather than later. Yes, there would be repercussions--and they would be healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement.

But such a military strike would take a while to organize. In the meantime, perhaps President Bush can fly from the silly G8 summit in St. Petersburg--a summit that will most likely convey a message of moral confusion and political indecision--to Jerusalem, the capital of a nation that stands with us, and is willing to fight with us, against our common enemies. This is our war, too.[/quote]


[url="http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/433fwbvs.asp"]http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/A...12/433fwbvs.asp[/url]





[b][center][color="#663366"]= So who is willing to offer their children up to the slaughter for Israel and these Zionist Pigs who attacked the U.S. on 9/11 ????[/color][/center][/b]

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='294796' date='Jul 16 2006, 09:24 PM']Truths this big are often hidden in plain sight. They rely on human misperception, credulity, and also upon a fundamental human notion of "goodness"--i.e. "Who in their right mind would be a part of THAT?"

It's not only detective work, but being able to understand what one discovers. For example, what do you think folks talked about [url="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1150355519950&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull"]around these events?[/url] A meeting of PMs and Netanyahu in Colorado with the neocons. Just a few short weeks before all hell breaks loose.[/quote]

Here is an excerpt from the link you provided, Homer:
[quote]Peres is expected to repeat at this meeting his position that [b]Israel does not need to lead the battle to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons[/b], but should clearly makes its voice heard regarding Iran's genocidal threat to wipe Israel off the map. He is also expected to say that Israel needs to ensure that Iran does not succeed in framing this issue as an Israeli-Iranian one.

Netanyahu intends to report to the prime minister on his meetings over the weekend at the American Enterprise Institute conference in Boulder, Colorado. [b]Netanyahu spoke at great length on the Iranian issue with US Vice President Dick Cheney[/b].

Representatives from Arab countries at the conference compared Iran's efforts to obtain nuclear weapons with that of communist countries and suggested that obtaining such weapons does not guarantee that they would be used. [b]Netanyahu disagreed and said that it is forbidden that radical Islam acquire nuclear know-how[/b], because the Iranians would use the weapons.[/quote]

In the first paragraph:
So, who is supposed to take the lead in the process to un-nuclearize Iran? Who is supposed to go and do their dirty work?

Second paragraph:
These two are fairly tight. What do you think they talked about, now that we are in the midst of this madness there? Oh, BTW, I found out today that a brother I know just had much of his family killed as their entire village is a series of craters.

Third paragraph:
"Nuclear weapons are forbidden to you" is what Netanyahu said...those servile lame ducks took it with a grin, for sure, and became a bit more impotent during this meeting.

And Allah knows best . . .
AZ

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='294676' date='Jul 16 2006, 03:57 PM'][b]Can you read ? ..... no one is saying "Jews" are to blame .... and no one is saying that "Israel" as a nation is to blame ....

ZIONISTS and the PNAC carried out 9/11 ....

The PNAC encompasses Cheney, Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and a host of Zionists. Also the bush admin had 25 mostly Zionists in his cabinet and inner circle that were key in putting it together. There isn't even more than 100 people all together in on the whole thing .... and why is this so hard to believe ....

hell at present we believe it was put together by a guy with one kidney fucking a sheep in a cave in Afghanistan who denied doing it .... as if that is anymore realistic.

Quit with the "Stop blaming the Jews" bit ... because no one is doing that .... = I hate Zionism and Israel not Judaism .... Some of the best allies against Zionism are in fact rabbinical and hasidic Jews. It is Zionism which spreads anti-Jew feelings throughout the world ... and thus all Jews should see that it is the cancer unfairly creating ill will towards an entire faith. [/b][/quote]


Alright BJ, im just making sure you realize that if all this you believe is true, there would be massive chaos in the United States and the world itself. No one in the US would be able to trust its government, and hell most of the arab states would probably wanna kill us for making their people look so bad. Basically i feel like it would be Israel and the US versus the world, and many people in the US wouldnt even be rooting for the US. If any of what you think is true, the world as we know it would be completely changed. Fortunately I, and many others, dont belive you and your stories...but if it is somehow true, our country will fall apart. We would no longer be able to have a democracy because none of the people would think we could ever elect another president without them having the capability to destroy our country like you think bush and cheney are doing.
/
Just a question, but what do you think will happen to the country/the world if any of this is true?

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='294847' date='Jul 17 2006, 12:03 AM'][b]Well whadda ya know .... [size=3]Bill Kristol[/size] the [color="#000099"]founder of the PNAC [/color] (the group who attacked the U.S. on 9/11 with Mossad .... and himself a Zionist Jew .... [u]wrote this yesterday[/u]. Note he is also the CEO of the neocon Weekly Standard that Rush, Hannity, and Co all get their education.
[center][color="#CC0000"]Should be assassinated by the CIA for the sake of America ....[/color]
[img]http://www.crooksandliars.com/images/fox_fns_panel_iraq_civilwar_060226a1.jpg[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [/b] [/center]
[size=3]
[url="http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/433fwbvs.asp"]http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/A...12/433fwbvs.asp[/url]
[b][center][color="#663366"]= So who is willing to offer their children up to the slaughter for Israel and these Zionist Pigs who attacked the U.S. on 9/11 ????[/color][/center][/b][/quote]


According to your beliefs, didnt the US techincally attack the US on 9/11???

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='294859' date='Jul 17 2006, 01:11 AM']According to your beliefs, didnt the US techincally attack the US on 9/11???[/quote]

[b]
it is more complex than that ... yes in a way the U.S. attacked the U.S. ... but only in the same way that Israel atatcked the U.S. .... Countries are not single entities .... and this was a very small group of people .... some are Americans ... the majority are Zionists with citizenship in Israel and the U.S. ... or Jewish Americans with very strong ties to Israel. As far as the actual foot soldiers who pulled off the attack itself ... they were Israeli Mossad ... but the men used could have been any nationality - the hijackers for instance were most likely Mossad Arabs. [/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='294858' date='Jul 17 2006, 01:09 AM']Alright BJ, im just making sure you realize that if all this you believe is true, there would be massive chaos in the United States and the world itself.

What do you think will happen to the country/the world if any of this is true?[/quote]

[b]Why do you think there is so much resistance to it coming out. The gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about is the fact that in most recent polls - 42 % of all Americans don't believe the official story of 9/11. The momentum is building everyday ... and most of the world already realizes many of these things ... however America will be the last ones to get the memo - because Zionists control the US media.


If it ever came to fruition and could be proven ... there would be chaos and war on a scale not previously seen. Millions would die ... martial law would be put in place ... and the US would be turned inside out. [/b]