Honkeys 9/11 poll

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='steggyD' post='296738' date='Jul 19 2006, 07:34 PM']What I don't get is this. Even if it were Israelis who did this, or Israelis knew about this, that still does not discount that a jet hit the Pentagon, or it does not prove that our own government knew about it and let it happen. What seems to me is that many conspiracists are fishing. When one story doesn't work out, you throw out another. Keep throwing them out. "Well, wha...wha...what about this? What about this? What about that?" Until people are tired of answering the silly questions over and over.

So here's my compromise. An underground shadow Zionist control group worked with some people of Arab descent to plan the attack. The Zionists used people of Arab descent as a bait to get the US government into the Middle East to help stir up the nest, so to speak. The only government officials of the US that knew were those who are part of the shadow government, the secret people, who only travel in black vehicles. The President knew something was going down, from a little bird, but not the entire details. His balls were tied though, because he relies upon these people to keep him in power, so he had no answer. Besides, who wants to lose all that money and power?

So the planes did happen, but the people who flew them into the buildings actually had even further training by the Zionist control group, or they were replaced by actual Zionists, who flew in place of the people with the Arab names.

Sounds like a great movie.[/quote]



[b]What you fail to realize is that almost every aspect of the "official" bullshit story could be true .... and the only difference could be that the Arabs were working for Mossad instead of Al Qaeda. This would make Israel the attacker instead. And in fact if you just limit it to this premise ... there is more info connecting Mossad to the attacks than there is Al Qaeda.

Hell Osama said afterwards that he didn't even do it. And then the U.S. popped up with a fraud tape of a wrong handed man, wearing jewelry claiming he did ... by this way this phantom likes to pup up when Bush's numbers are low or before elections as well. [/b]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='296753' date='Jul 19 2006, 07:53 PM'][b]What you fail to realize is that almost every aspect of the "official" bullshit story could be true .... and the only difference could be that the Arabs were working for Mossad instead of Al Qaeda. This would make Israel the attacker instead. And in fact if you just limit it to this premise ... there is more info connecting Mossad to the attacks than there is Al Qaeda.

Hell Osama said afterwards that he didn't even do it. And then the U.S. popped up with a fraud tape of a wrong handed man, wearing jewelry claiming he did ... by this way this phantom likes to pup up when Bush's numbers are low or before elections as well. [/b][/quote]


Now see this is something that I think might very well be possible.

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='296783' date='Jul 19 2006, 08:30 PM']Now see this is something that I think might very well be possible.[/quote]
That's what I said also. I suppose he didn't accept my compromise.

Like I've said a million times, I can easily believe that other people were involved than originally thought. I just have a hard time believing all of the hologram, spaceship, drone and missile theories.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='steggyD' post='296791' date='Jul 19 2006, 08:41 PM']That's what I said also. I suppose he didn't accept my compromise.

Like I've said a million times, I can easily believe that other people were involved than originally thought. I just have a hard time believing all of the hologram, spaceship, drone and missile theories.[/quote]


Ditto

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Israelis from 9/11 now suing the U.S.[/b][/size]

By Yuval Yoaz

Four Israelis arrested in New York on September 11, 2001, a short while after the attacks on the World Trade Center, filed a multi-million-dollar suit in the United States on Monday against the American Department of Justice.

The four, Paul and Sylvian Kurcheil, Omer Marmari and Vyron Shmuel, claim that their arrests were illegal, and that they were held for months while they were interrogated and tortured.

In their suit, filed in New York District Court through their attorneys, Nitzana Dershen-Leitner and Robert Tulchin, they claim that "law officials, policemen and jailers arrested the four illegally, for a long and protracted period, and violated their human rights while they were detained at a holding center in 2001."

The four were employed by a New Jersey moving firm and the truck they were riding in was stopped near the George Washington bridge between New Jersey and New York when the Twin Towers were attacked.

The police officers arrested the four after they saw that they held foreign (Israeli) driving licenses. They were arrested as suspects in the terrorist attack and were transfered to the FBI for interrogation.

The four, who are now in Israel, claim that they were held in complete isolation, without being allowed to meet with their attorneys or their families, and were exposed to harsh interrogation methods, physical abuse, sleep deprivation and racist insults.[/quote]



[url="http://www.middleeast.org/launch/redirect.cgi?num=325&a=34"]http://www.middleeast.org/launch/redirect.cgi?num=325&a=34[/url]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Israelis Arrested on 9/11 Attempt to Sue Justice Department[/b][/size]

New York Daily News | September 15 2004

Four young Israeli men arrested as terror suspects on the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 11, 2001, have filed a multimillion-dollar suit against the Justice Department.

The plaintiffs - ages 22 to 26 - say they were held for two months without access to lawyers or family at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, where they were roughly interrogated, assaulted, deprived of sleep and subjected to racist taunts from guards. The suit alleges civil rights violations.

The Israelis were working for a New Jersey moving company when their truck was stopped by cops near the bridge hours after terrorists destroyed the World Trade Center.

When cops found the men had foreign driver's licenses, they were arrested. Authorities were apparently concerned about any attempt to blow up the bridge.

The four were eventually cleared and released.[/quote]


[url="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/150904attempttosue.htm"]http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/septe...ttempttosue.htm[/url]

[Guest steggyD]

Just like a Jew.









In all seriousness though, I hope to hell my tax money doesn't go to paying these guys millions of dollars. Really though, were they CEO's or some shit? Why would their time be worth millions of dollars?

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='296565' date='Jul 19 2006, 03:38 PM']i also lie between A and B, but picked B because I will agree that there are some shady things in this whole situation, but im not gonna go nearly as far to say there was a conspiracy involving israel and the US making or allowing these attacks...[/quote]

Is that such an unthinkable possibility? Is it really all that unlikely a possibility? What would make it so? The moral barriers of the people that would have to be involved? The inability to keep it concealed? What moral barriers would those be? How concealed is it?

No decent conspiracy is leaves irrefutable evidence lying about. No decent conspiracy operates without the resources to cover its tracks, nor does a decent conspiracy always rely on the ability to be completely invisible. It only needs to be able to out-distance those that may detect it, and avoid consequences that its engineers are not willing to face. It's not about avoiding accusations and suspicions, it's about keeping them from sticking - legally, politically or otherwise.

I'm at a disadvantage here, because on 9/11, I was fully expecting something of this type to happen, and I was only surprised by the specific mechanism. More importantly, my expectations were based on a the lack of progress seen in the imposition of a policy agenda that such an event would serve, and those advancing that agenda were known to be ensconsed in the government and the corporate establishment. Now, if that policy agenda had not been fervently and disingenuously pressed from practically the moment the first plane hit the WTC, I might be more inclined to accept one of the first two rationalizations. However, the pre-meditated assaults on foreign nations and the legislative and policy assaults on everything from the public fisc to the Constitution predictably swung into high gear amid a panopoly of discrepancies, suspicious coincidences, weasel-worded dodges, obfuscatory and obstructionist actions, and outright lies on the part of the administration and its culture industry mouthpieces.

For most people in the US, 911 was a shocking and unthinkable tragedy that changed the world, but for people that had been paying closer attention, it was shocking mainly in its empirical confirmation - particularly in its aftermath - of the conspiracist paradigm as a predictive model - things are even worse than we thought.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='steggyD' post='296791' date='Jul 19 2006, 08:41 PM']I just have a hard time believing all of the hologram, spaceship, drone and missile theories.[/quote]

[b]and who do you think muddys the waters with these stupid theories .... who benefits from a bunch of kooky ass people saying that Aliens attacked us ??? could it possibly be that the real perpetrators benefit ???

And well we know Al Qaeda doesn't have the power to really propagate and promote all of these other theories and even fund movies about them .... but guess which group does ??? Intl Zionists .... and guess which group owns all US major media ???? Wait don't answer that it was rhetorical [/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='296797' date='Jul 19 2006, 08:53 PM'][url="http://www.middleeast.org/launch/redirect.cgi?num=325&a=34"]http://www.middleeast.org/launch/redirect.cgi?num=325&a=34[/url][/quote]


[b]That's funny Old ... you included the link ... and when I click on the link this is at the top of the page .... [/b]

[quote][size=3]The likelihood these Israelis worked for the Mossad and are now trying to cash in and/or muddy the waters.[/size] Even if they are 'innocent' bystanders who just happened to be joyfully photographing the World Trade Towers that day just imagine if and when Palestinians get to sue the Israelis for what has been done to them![/quote]


[b]But you conveniently left it out ????

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='296799' date='Jul 19 2006, 08:55 PM'][url="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/150904attempttosue.htm"]http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/septe...ttempttosue.htm[/url][/quote]

[b]
Oh this link is even better Old .... you linked to Prison planet .... you do realize that Prison Planet is the group ran by Alex Jones .... the group who says that Bush and the Illuminati and the Owl Worshipers at Bohmeian Grove attacked us on 9-11 ????

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]


this is to good Old ... keep the info coming ...

you also forgot to mention how on the same site you can buy videos that talk about how 9-11 was an inside job.


[color="#FF0000"]So do you know think 9-11 was an inside job Old ... or are you just guilty of pulling articles from somewhere without realizing where you are taking them from ???? [/b][/color]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='296864' date='Jul 19 2006, 09:50 PM'][b]
Oh this link is even better Old .... you linked to Prison planet .... you do realize that Prison Planet is the group ran by Alex Jones .... the group who says that Bush and the Illuminati and the Owl Worshipers at Bohmeian Grove attacked us on 9-11 ????

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]
this is to good Old ... keep the info coming ...

you also forgot to mention how on the same site you can buy videos that talk about how 9-11 was an inside job.
[color="#FF0000"]So do you know think 9-11 was an inside job Old ... or are you just guilty of pulling articles from somewhere without realizing where you are taking them from ???? [/b][/color][/quote]



[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

I don`t know why WHERE the info came from is more important than the info...
But meh...


Here just pick which site you like...


[url="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Israelis+sue+U.S.&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t400&b=1"]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Israelis+...ab-web-t400&b=1[/url]

[Honkey]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='297054' date='Jul 20 2006, 07:48 AM'][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

I don`t know why WHERE the info came from is more important than the info...
But meh...
Here just pick which site you like...
[url="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Israelis+sue+U.S.&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t400&b=1"]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Israelis+...ab-web-t400&b=1[/url][/quote]

[b]O[/b]s[b]DB[/b] after admiring your avatar i was wondering if you are currently pissing on yourself?


BJ, the only problem I find about the supposed hijackers being connected to the Mossad is that I do not see these supposed hijackers sacrificing themselves for this cause. THey were not religious, they went to a strip club and got drunk the night before the attacks. I guess this could mean that they knew it was their last night on earth and wanted to have as much fun as possible or the story is made up and there are no hijackers, only the mossad and the us and a government. I look forward to hearing your take

[Guest fredtoast]

[quote name='CP1' post='296597' date='Jul 19 2006, 04:04 PM']Can anyone answer or "debunk" why there were 5 Israelis dancing with joy at what happened, while taping the event who later stated they were there specifically to tape it?
Didn't think so[/quote]

What is there to debunk? They claimed that they heard about the attacks and went out to film it. There is no proof that this isn't the truth. I don't doubt that they were possibly Israeli spies, but that doesn't prove that they had advance knowledge of the event. The U.S. also has spies in Isreal. I would hope that they would do the same thing (except the celebrating part).

My question is if Isreal was behind all of this then why did they frame Saudi Arabians? That is the one (and only) country in the middle east that the U.S. is not going to retaliate against. Why not Syrians, Lebonese, Iranians, Iraqis, or Palistenians?

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Honkey' post='297084' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:13 AM'][b]O[/b]s[b]DB[/b] after admiring your avatar i was wondering if you are currently pissing on yourself?
BJ, the only problem I find about the supposed hijackers being connected to the Mossad is that I do not see these supposed hijackers sacrificing themselves for this cause. THey were not religious, they went to a strip club and got drunk the night before the attacks. I guess this could mean that they knew it was their last night on earth and wanted to have as much fun as possible or the story is made up and there are no hijackers, only the mossad and the us and a government. I look forward to hearing your take[/quote]

why does it matter that they drank and they went to strip clubs? for one thing, it is in the al qaeda handbook to fit into the population that they are in... second though, you don't think it is possible for a devout muslum who used to drink but found allah, to be away from their leadership and go back to their old ways? just b/c their religion says not to do something, doen't mean they didn't ever do it... especially w/out supervision...

i want to know, besides the supposed videotape of the israelis dancing, what evidence is there to connect mossad to 9/11? why are you so sold on this fact honkey? sell me on it...

[Honkey]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='297089' date='Jul 20 2006, 09:36 AM'][b]why does it matter that they drank and they went to strip clubs? for one thing, it is in the al qaeda handbook to fit into the population that they are in... second though, you don't think it is possible for a devout muslum who used to drink but found allah, to be away from their leadership and go back to their old ways? just b/c their religion says not to do something, doen't mean they didn't ever do it... especially w/out supervision...[/b]i want to know, besides the supposed videotape of the israelis dancing, what evidence is there to connect mossad to 9/11? why are you so sold on this fact honkey? sell me on it...[/quote]

I will let AZ handle the first part of your argument because he is the most knowledgable on this subject and I do not know enough about his faith to answer it. I also do not want to offend him in an attempt to answer. His devotion is something I respect and wish more Christians showed this time of devotion to their faith.

As for the 2nd part.. I will look into it more, BJ has provided plenty of links and I'm sure he has more. So maybe these two can continue to fight these battles. But when i find something i will post it

[Honkey]

The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11

A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11.

The men set up cameras by the Hudson River and trained them on the twin towers. (1)

Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery.(2)

"They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness.(3)

[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4)

Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact(5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot.(6)

The FBI sent out an alert to area cops, reading: "Vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack . . . Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion."(7)

"It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."(8)

One anonymous phone call to the authorities actually led them to close down all of New York's bridges and tunnels. The mystery caller told the 9-1-1 dispatcher that a group of Palestinians were mixing a bomb inside of a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. Here's the transcript from NBC News:

Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.
Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.
Dispatcher: He has what?
Caller: He's dressed like an Arab.(9)

(*Writer's note: Why would this mystery caller specifically say that these "Arabs" were Palestinians? How would he know that? Palestinians usually dress in western style clothes, not "sheikh uniforms")

Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey.

When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis!

According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers:

"We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem."(10)

Why did he feel that Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD?

The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives.(11)

The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture.(12)

The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge, but the ethnicity of the suspects was not revealed. Here's what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001:

American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported.(13)

TCM Breaking News reported that the van was laden down with tonnes of explosives.(14)

What's really intriguing is that ABC's 20/20 (15), the New York Post (16), and the New Jersey Bergen Record (17) all clearly and unambiguously reported that a white van with Israelis was intercepted on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel.

But the Jerusalem Post, Israeli National News (Arutz Sheva) (18), and Yediot America, (19) all reported, just as clearly and unambiguously, that a white van with Israelis was stopped on a ramp leading to the George Washington Bridge, which is several miles north of the Lincoln Tunnel.

It appears as if there may actually have been two white vans involved, one stopped on each crossing. This would not only explain the conflicting reports as to the actual location of the arrests, but would also explain how so many credible eye-witnesses all saw celebrating "middle-easterners" in a white van in so many different locations. It also explains why the New York Post and Steve Gordon (lawyer for the 5 Israelis) originally described how three Israelis were arrested but later increased the total to five.

Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re-crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape. And notice how the van (or vans) stayed away from the third major crossing -the Holland Tunnel- which was where the police had originally been directed to by that anti-Palestinian 9-1-1 "mystery caller". A classic misdirection play.

From there, the story gets becomes even more suspicious. The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks.

The employee, who declined to give his name said: "I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me." These guys were like, "Now America knows what we go through." (20)

A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities. (21)

It was later confirmed that the five detained Israelis were in fact Mossad agents (22). They were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. Some of the movers had been kept in solitary confinement for 40 days. (23)

[S]everal of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home.

Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (24)

How did they know there would be an event to document on 9-11?

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario:

1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.

2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.

6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly.

[Guest bengalrick]

i've seen that link honkey... that is not proof though... before i get into all of that though, how does this prove it? could they have been following the islamic terrorists and thats why they were "spying" on america? as fred pointed out, i hope that we have spies in israel also... and where is the video tape of this episode? are we sure they said what they supposidely said? where is the police report of them getting arrested on smoking gun or anywhere? i'd love to read that... where is this proof? if everything you said is true except that they were yelling instead of cheering, that would change the story would it? there are alot of questions i have about this... why are they now suing the U.S. gov't if they are mossad agents? if they were part of a conspiracy of this proportions, wouldn't they want this story forgotten about and not try to bring it back to the forefront? wouldn't the israeli gov't stop them, even if they were pissed about getting tortured, so they wouldn't lose face on this? the reason i said "besides the videotape of the israelis", b/c i don't quite buy it... why were they arrested for attempting to blow up the bridge? that is a major part of the story, it seems... it doesn't relate to 9/11 on the outside, but that seems important... seeing the police report would help answer that question... there are WAYYYY too many questions about this account, to take it as gosbel at this point...

honkey, i am very confussed on this... you claim to have had your eyes opened about 9/11, yet when you are asked to give the damning evidence that changed your mind, there are bigger holes in that, than the official story has... you don't seem like you are saying "i don't know what happened" you seem like your saying "mossad and israel are behind this"... although i don't believe what bj believes, i think that he believes it... i don't get that feeling from you... you honestly seem like you saw that film and it sold you on this as a conspiracy... to be intellectually honest w/ yourself, shouldn't you fact check the facts that were presented in that? shouldn't we fact check this israeli/mossad videotape claim?

[Honkey]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='297104' date='Jul 20 2006, 10:10 AM']i've seen that link honkey... that is not proof though... before i get into all of that though, how does this prove it? could they have been following the islamic terrorists and thats why they were "spying" on america? as fred pointed out, i hope that we have spies in israel also... and where is the video tape of this episode? are we sure they said what they supposidely said? where is the police report of them getting arrested on smoking gun or anywhere? i'd love to read that... where is this proof? if everything you said is true except that they were yelling instead of cheering, that would change the story would it? there are alot of questions i have about this... why are they now suing the U.S. gov't if they are mossad agents? if they were part of a conspiracy of this proportions, wouldn't they want this story forgotten about and not try to bring it back to the forefront? wouldn't the israeli gov't stop them, even if they were pissed about getting tortured, so they wouldn't lose face on this? the reason i said "besides the videotape of the israelis", b/c i don't quite buy it... why were they arrested for attempting to blow up the bridge? that is a major part of the story, it seems... it doesn't relate to 9/11 on the outside, but that seems important... seeing the police report would help answer that question... there are WAYYYY too many questions about this account, to take it as gosbel at this point...

honkey, i am very confussed on this... you claim to have had your eyes opened about 9/11, yet when you are asked to give the damning evidence that changed your mind, there are bigger holes in that, than the official story has... you don't seem like you are saying "i don't know what happened" you seem like your saying "mossad and israel are behind this"... although i don't believe what bj believes, i think that he believes it... i don't get that feeling from you... you honestly seem like you saw that film and it sold you on this as a conspiracy... to be intellectually honest w/ yourself, shouldn't you fact check the facts that were presented in that? shouldn't we fact check this israeli/mossad videotape claim?[/quote]

So we allow eye-witness accounts at the pentagon, but not in the matter of the dancing israelis? we don't have the police reports and their interviews because every damn thing is confidential when it comes to dealing with fucking israel.

Those reports about them suing are from 2004.

And I did claim that the video open my eyes and pulled my head out of Bush's ass. At one time Bush could do no wrong, but things change. This video got my mind to start questioning and do research on my own. I have researched the matter from hundreds of hours. Hopefully you have done the same, but this whole Mossad thing that BJ brought up makes sense and i still have to read Stranger than Fiction so i will have a better grasp when that task it complete. But please Bengalrick keep hurling the insults since that is the one thing you seem good at these days. Or should i just call you Bengalprick?

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Honkey' post='297115' date='Jul 20 2006, 12:23 PM']So we allow eye-witness accounts at the pentagon, but not in the matter of the dancing israelis? we don't have the police reports and their interviews because every damn thing is confidential when it comes to dealing with fucking israel.[/quote]

when there are hundreds of eyewitness accounts, you can pay attention to them... but even they didn't see the same thing... some saw a 747... some saw a military plane... some saw a cargo plane... but unless the official story is really fucked up, these were all the same plane... so no, one person's testimony is not enough to sell me...

[quote]Those reports about them suing are from 2004.[/quote]

what happened w/ it?

[quote]And I did claim that the video open my eyes and pulled my head out of Bush's ass. At one time Bush could do no wrong, but things change. This video got my mind to start questioning and do research on my own. I have researched the matter from hundreds of hours. Hopefully you have done the same, but this whole Mossad thing that BJ brought up makes sense and i still have to read Stranger than Fiction so i will have a better grasp when that task it complete.[/quote]

its your own damn fault if, at one opint, bush could do no wrong... so you did all of this research, yet can't answer some simple questions about why you believe... all you can say is, "well, i'm sure bj can answer those question"... i'm not asking bj... do you let him think for you now? if it makes sense to you, sell me on it... that is all i asked...

[quote]But please Bengalrick keep hurling the insults since that is the one thing you seem good at these days. Or should i just call you Bengalprick? [/quote]

wow, now your acting like a baby... are my questions too hard for you, or something? where did i call you one muthafuckin' name... you call me "bengalprick" (real original btw) after i questioned why you can't explain to me why you beleive something? show me one fucking insult in that last post.. seriously... instead of "throwing insults back at me" why dont' you try to answer some of my questions?

another thing, when coming to this forum, you should know that you have to have thick skin... b/c sometimes, people really will throw insults and attack you honkey... but i wasn't and still haven't....

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Honkey' post='297092' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:46 AM'][b]I will let AZ handle the first part of your argument because he is the most knowledgable on this subject and I do not know enough about his faith to answer it. I also do not want to offend him in an attempt to answer. His devotion is something I respect and wish more Christians showed this time of devotion to their faith.[/b]

As for the 2nd part.. I will look into it more, BJ has provided plenty of links and I'm sure he has more. So maybe these two can continue to fight these battles. But when i find something i will post it[/quote]

i found this article interesting...

[url="http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/battle-for-mosul-part-iii.htm#drugs"]click here[/url]

[i]Many things are well-known here in Iraq but seldom, if ever, mentioned in the news. For example, Jihadist bombers are notorious for engaging in debauchery on a stag party scale the eve of their “holy mission.” [b]The modus operandi for their crime against humanity is to get drugged up and thoroughly drunk the night before, lay up with a prostitute and then start the countdown on their souls by turning themselves into bomb delivery devices which explode while they are still high on drugs.[/b][/i]

apparently, the closer these homicide bombers get to their day in destiny, the more drugs and alchol they consume, according to micheal yon (i would call him a very reliable source, but this is for you to decide)... i would love to hear a rebuttal by abu on this one...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]If you want to know all of the countless ways that Mossad is connected to 9/11 ... then you should read the link that Abu provided for the book stranger than fiction ...

Mossad spies were caught and arrested all over the U.S. around the time of 9/11 ... hell they tried to blow up the Mexican parliament ... (this story was not covered in the U.S.) ... Mossad was caught taping the Sears tower for destruction ... They were caught in a moving van surveying Nuclear power plants etc.

200 Israelis were detained by the U.S. govt and Mossad was running wild in the U.S. ....[/b]


you can also read Dr Pastores work here .... [url="http://www.jihadunspun.com/articles/12022002-stranger.than.fiction/stf01.html"]Link[/url]

[i](it also has the links to all of he main stream sources)[/i]

[Guest Coy Bacon]

Pentagon Papers Author Daniel Ellsberg Says Government May Have Carried Out 9/11
Predicts Bush Regime Will Stage Terrorist Attack to Provide Pretext for Iran, Syria Invasion, And Justify Internment Camps for American People

Infowars | July 19, 2006
By Kevin Smith & Alex Jones

Daniel Ellsberg is a former American military analyst employed by the RAND Corporation who precipitated a national firestorm in 1971 when he released the Pentagon Papers, the [b]US military's account [/b] of activities during the Vietnam War, to The New York Times. The release awakened the American people to a [b]systematic program of organized deception carried out by the Pentagon against the population to continue the Vietnam War. [/b]

Daniel Ellsberg, speaking on air to GCN radio host Jack Blood, stated his concerns that [b]criminal elements of the US government [/b] were [b]psychologically capable to have carried out 9/11[/b]. He warned that [b]within days after a US military strike on Iran that Bush's handlers would probably stage some type of terror attack in the West to legitimize the new war. [/b] [u]

Ellsberg went on to state that another major Reichstag-like state-sponsored attack would be followed by a [color="#FF0000"][u][b]martial law scenario [/b][/u] [/color] which might include[color="#FF0000"] [u][b]detention camps for American dissenters. [/b] [/u] [/color]

Ellsberg said that he worked with individuals at the highest levels of government who staged war provocations several times to whip up pro-war sentiment in the US. Daniel Ellsberg now joins the ranks of hundreds of prominent engineers, physicists, economists, military officers, pilots, high-level intelligence analysts, and cabinet ministers who are exposing the 9/11 hoax.

Each day more and more respected professionals are going public with their questions about the official 9/11 fable. The 9/11 cover-up dam is breaking under the weight of these truthseekers' efforts and the perpetrators of 9/11 are watching them in horror while wondering who will be the next to speak up.

Here is a partial transcript of the interview:

Jack Blood: Have you had a chance to take a look at a lot of this information coming from America’s leading scholars, physicists, engineers, etc. Who have taken a look now at 9/11 and are now, not only questioning what might have happened on 9/11, but really being very direct including a number of high level …

Daniel Ellsberg: Actually, I have looked at a lot of that, and I’ll tell you without going into it all which would take a lot of time, [b]I find some of it very implausible and other parts of it quite solid, and there’s no question in my mind that there’s enough evidence there to justify a very comprehensive and hard hitting [u]investigation of a kind that we’ve not seen[/u][/b], with subpoenas, general questioning of people, and raising the release of a lot of documents, there’s no question that (D.E. chuckles) put it this way, very serious questions have been raised, about how much they knew beforehand and how much involvement there may been. [b]Is the, is a administration capable, humanly and physiologically of engineering such a provocation?

Yes, I would say that, I worked for such an administration myself,[/b] Johnson, ah, President Johnson put destroyers in harm’s way in the Tonkin Gulf not only once, but several times, with the, with a lot of his people hoping that it would lead to a confrontation and claiming that it had. And could have resulted in the lost of many lives in the course of it. And what I’m saying now, by the way though is this, and here there’s a very strong analogy, to this day there is a controversy gone back and forth historically, as to who caused the [b]Reichstag fire[/b], the burning of their parliament, the Reichstag, on February 27 th 1933. Goering, at one point, the number two man in the Nazi regime, said “I set that fire”, later he denied that at Nuremberg, and I’ve noticed that the latest history suggests, that it wasn’t the Nazi’s. The point is that all this time later is there is still a controversy about that. But, [b]what there’s no controversy about is the use the Nazi’s made of it, that very night and the next day.[/b]

J.B. Cui Bono, who benefits

D.E. February 28 th, there was a [b]Reichstag fire decree [/b] that ended [b]freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of association, all in the Weimar Constitution, and privacy of the postal system and of communications and of telephone,[/b] what ended here to, more than we knew four years ago right after 9/11. [color="#FF0000"][b]If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country, detention camps for middle-easterners and their quote “sympathizers”, critics of the President’s policy and essentially the wiping-out of the Bill of Rights.[/b][/color]
J.B. I know your walking very carefully here Daniel Ellsberg, but that’s pretty strong medicine and we have to look at the history of the world, governments do this, as you mentioned, governments are liars, governments are murderers, they, this is not above them, I’m sure your familiar with the [u][b]Northwoods Document.[/b][/u]

D.E. Ah yes, indeed. Yeah talking about a [b]manufactured provocation [/b] which could have involved even the shooting down of an American or some other airliner, with American support. Yes I would say by the way, that [b]Americans definitely play this game, I’m sure that it’s happening now[/b].

We, [b]I expected by the way, Bush to manufacture a kind of Tonkin Gulf incident before he went into Iraq and then I decided well I’d been wrong they didn’t feel they needed that[/b]. It is interesting that the memos that came out, in conversations between Blair and Bush, (aka The White House Memo), show that Bush [b]was pressing for the possibility of sending over a U-2 and getting it fired on and using that as an excuse.[/b]

J.B. A U-2 painted like a U.N., ah, a United Nations airplane.

D.E. Yes, but they couldn’t do that again for sure. But, what is happening right now is that Israel [b]is clearly seeking a generally provocative act by both Hammas and Hezbollah, which I think were not wise acts some people are applauding those in the Middle-East passing out sweets and so forth, very short-sighted I would say, a lot of innocent people are going to die as a result. [/b]

[Guest Coy Bacon]

Former Reagan Deputy and Colonel Says 9/11 "Dog That Doesn't Hunt"
Col. Ronald D. Ray asks why half a trillion defense budget couldn't protect Pentagon, astounded at "conspiracy theory" put out by government

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | July 1 2006

The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story of 9/11 - calling it "the dog that doesn't hunt."

Col. Ronald D. Ray joined Alex Jones for an hour long interview in which he gave his views on a wide array of subjects, including the war on terror, porous borders and the Bush administration.

Ray questioned the feasbility of having a budget of half a trillion dollars a year yet not even being able to defend the Pentagon.

"Half a trillion dollars a year and a bunch of guys over in a cave in Afghanistan were able to penetrate that half a trillion dollar network that's supposed to provide Americans with national security."

[b]The Colonel detailed historical examples of the use of [u]false flag operations [/u] carried out by the US government, in particular [u]Israel's attempted sinking of the USS Liberty[/u], which LBJ allowed to happen in an effort to blame Egypt and kickstart a war.[/b]

Ray (pictured below) espoused his complete distrust of the legitimacy of the official story behind 9/11.



[b]"I'm astounded that the [u]conspiracy theory advanced by the administration [/u] could in fact be true and the [u]evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate[/u],"[/b] he said.

Ray highlighted the existence of [u][b]Project Bojinka [/b] [/u] and the fact that [b]Bush administration officials claimed ignorance of a plot to attack the World Trade Center with planes despite limitless precursors to suggest otherwise.[/b]

Ray dismised the validity of the assertion that the Bush administration is fighting a genuine war on terror.

[b]"If the war on terror is real then the first thing that would have happened within a matter of weeks after 9/11 would have been we'd have closed the borders off."[/b]

"You have no national security if your borders are not secure."

Ray expressed his disgust at how the current batch of crooks had [b]twisted the conservative movement and wrapped themselves in it like a wolf in sheep's clothing.[/b]

"This neo-conservative takeover of the government in the last six years is the destruction of the things that Barry Goldwater would have been running for in '64 and even the things that Ronald Reagan said he supported," said Ray.

"[b]The conservative movement in this country has almost been neutered as a result of this administration."[/b] [color="#FF0000"] [I am certain that this is part of the design - everybody takes it in the ass, "liberal" and "conservative" alike][/color]

Prison Planet.tv members can hear the entire interview with Colonel Ray by clicking here. If you're not a member please consider becoming part of our subscription family by clicking here.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote]QUOTE(bengalrick @ Jul 20 2006, 09:36 AM)

why does it matter that they drank and they went to strip clubs? for one thing, it is in the al qaeda handbook to fit into the population that they are in... second though, you don't think it is possible for a devout muslum who used to drink but found allah, to be away from their leadership and go back to their old ways? just b/c their religion says not to do something, doen't mean they didn't ever do it... especially w/out supervision..[/quote]

Sup Rick--
You don't understand Islam or muslims. Not even close. This is why I encouraged everyone to go find a hardcore muslim, someone who might be very knowledgeable and very 'hardcore'. This is to get you to have an understanding of how muslims who are so devoted that they are 'willing to end their life' for Allah may think or act. Please do this. It requires some effort. It will require some time. It will require some open mindedness and some courage...but every lesson worth learning requires all of these things.

Development of a muslim is not overnight or simply based on gaining some knowledge. It is something that comes with prayers in the night, sacrificing sleep for prayer, shedding tears begging for Guidance, disciplining oneself to live a certain way, and on and on. Eventually, with Guidance, it just becomes uncomfortable to do something 'unfruitful'. It becomes distasteful.

Go meet a devout Muslim. WhoDeyUK seems to have met a few and it changed his life. Muslims who have God Consciousness may tell you that yes, USA is the Shaytaan right now... that Jihad is an absolutely integral aspect of Islam...and many other things not so flowery to the uninitiated, but you will notice in them a sincere desire, from the depth of their being, to do good to people, to give, to offer assistance, to sacrifice themselves, etc. They will literally give you the shirt off their back if you need it, or even if you just want it.

And none of this has to do with a "supervisor". There is no supervisor. The individual answers to Allah, pronounced "Ull -- Lawh". Do you think that if he does the debauchery the night prior to killing himself, Allah honors him? Is Allah not the Wise? Is Allah/Elohim/God not The Just? Because a person goes and dies 'for ALlah' does not a martyr make. I posted the example of Ali, the Khalifa. He on the battelfield refused to kill an enemy after he had spat on Ali. The reason? Ali knew Allah would not honor him if he killed him out of selfish anger.

[quote name='bengalrick' post='297281' date='Jul 20 2006, 03:35 PM'][i]Many things are well-known here in Iraq but seldom, if ever, mentioned in the news. For example, Jihadist bombers are notorious for engaging in debauchery on a stag party scale the eve of their “holy mission.” [b]The modus operandi for their crime against humanity is to get drugged up and thoroughly drunk the night before, lay up with a prostitute and then start the countdown on their souls by turning themselves into bomb delivery devices which explode while they are still high on drugs.[/b][/i]

apparently, the closer these homicide bombers get to their day in destiny, the more drugs and alchol they consume, according to micheal yon (i would call him a very reliable source, but this is for you to decide)... i would love to hear a rebuttal by abu on this one...[/quote]

Whoever believes this is sorely deluded. Who came up with this? Michael Yon? Some of the silliest stuff I have ever heard. Allah is the All Wise, The Most High, Most Just. Think about how idiotic Allah would have to be to fit within this framework, I seek forgiveness for even uttering such a thing. Its not like He would say, "I promised paradise for dying for me, it don't matter what u did last night, or if ur on crack now, I told u i'd give u paradise, u got it"--- Rediculous, may Allah forgive me.

[b]If ur intoxicated in anyway, prayers are not valid and unaccepted (the five daily prayers, you know?) and in the same manner, Jihad--which includes the dying part--is unaccepted in an intoxicated state. Michael Yon is either a complete tool or is a sinister liar with an agenda. Judging from his last name, I would suspect the latter, but I could be wrong.[/b]

BTW-- The person pretending to be Atta LIVED with the girlfriend, went to the strip club regularly, snorted coke, drank constantly, and never prayed, never went to a mosque, never openned a Qur'an, never met with muslims. What sort of muslim was he??

AZ