|Bunghole| Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='Beaker' date='Jul 8 2005, 11:47 PM']All religion will die out when we see that we are not separate from each other or god. That paradigm shift is closer than people think. [right][post="112462"][/post][/right][/quote] That sounds positively prophetic, apocryphal and fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Jul 9 2005, 01:49 AM']So I guess I'm the only one that notices it going on in the football related forums of this board as well? I have never seen one of us "beleivers" throwing in our pro-christian views when talking about the team. How many pro-christian threads have you seen in general? Zero, maybe 1? And yet the anti christians complain about us forcing it on them? Give me a break! [right][post="112463"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I guess, ive not read every post over there its been a slow offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CTBengalsFan Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Sorry, but I have a problem when in California, they finally get government money for stem cell research (something we should be pouring money into, it would revolutionize health care), some Christian group hires a bunch of lawyers who look up some way that it's illegal and get the whole thing shut down. To me, that is one of the worst things I've ever heard. Someone might be able to have a life-changing operation some time soon but because these people think it's unethical >>IN THEIR RELIGION<< they feel the need to revoke government funding when it would benefit everyone. And Bung, yes obviously a religion is going to teach values, that's why it's there. It's a way to control the masses, by making them all have the same values, same ideas on what is right and wrong. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing because it's clearly not. My problem is attaching it to a story about a man named Jesus, who according to tales 2000 years old ressurrected because he's in fact the son of god. If you want to teach your children the morals that Christianity teaches, good for you. But if you want to make him think that he must spread the word of "God" or the will of "God" to others, that's what I have a problem with. It's only been recently that Christians stance to new peoples hasn't been "Join Us or Die" and I think you would do well to remember the roots that your religion comes from. How many people die in the name of God? And continue to? And believing in a divine force and being a Christian are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy different. EDIT: and own, this is probably my 3rd post ever on Christianity, I never really checked out these boards before... sorry if this has been beaten to daeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad7elevenjohnson Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 It will die out, but only if Black Jesus marries my asian girlfriend [img]http://img295.echo.cx/img295/4070/asian5nn.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CTBengalsFan Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Jul 9 2005, 12:49 AM']How many pro-christian threads have you seen in general? Zero, maybe 1? And yet the anti christians complain about us forcing it on them? Give me a break! [right][post="112463"][/post][/right][/quote] I'm not talking about on internet messageboards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='Jul 8 2005, 11:55 PM']Sorry, but I have a problem when after in California, they finally get government money for stem cell research (something we should be pouring money into, it would revolutionize health care), some Christian group hires a bunch of lawyers who look up some way that it's illegal and get the whole thing shut down. To me, that is one of the worst things I've ever heard. Someone might be able to have a life-changing operation some time soon but because these people think it's unethical >>IN THEIR RELIGION<< they feel the need to revoke government funding when it would benefit everyone. And Bung, yes obviously a religion is going to teach values, that's why it's there. [b]It's a way to control the masses, [/b]by making them all have the same values, same ideas on what is right and wrong. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing because it's clearly not. My problem is attaching it to a story about a man named Jesus, who according to tales 2000 years old ressurrected because he's in fact the son of god. If you want to teach your children the morals that Christianity teaches, good for you. But if you want to make him think that he must spread the word of "God" or the will of "God" to others, that's what I have a problem with. It's only been recently that Christians stance to new peoples hasn't been "Join Us or Die" and I think you would do well to remember the roots that your religion comes from. How many people die in the name of God? And continue to? And believing in a divine force and being a Christian are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy different. EDIT: and own, this is probably my 3rd post ever on Christianity, I never really checked out these boards before... sorry if this has been beaten to daeth [right][post="112470"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] That's what you choose to believe. And it's your right to think so. I believe it serves a higher purpose. And aren't jihadists spreading the "Word Of God" with terrorists attacks? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/32.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CTBengalsFan Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='Bunghole' date='Jul 9 2005, 12:59 AM']That's what you choose to believe. And it's your right to think so. I believe it serves a higher purpose. And aren't jihadists spreading the "Word Of God" with terrorists attacks? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/32.gif[/img] [right][post="112473"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I'd like to know what you think about the stem cell research in California Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='Jul 9 2005, 12:01 AM']I'd like to know what you think about the stem cell research in California [right][post="112476"][/post][/right][/quote] I think that every avenue that can be explored to better human life is worth exploring as long as it doesn't compromise any other life...if abortions are going to happen anyway despite my beliefs against it (and I was a party to two abortions with previous girlfriends, btw.... ) then the tissues of aborted fetuses should be exploited for the greater good... I am for anything that can help humanity that doesn't harm it simultaneously...if at all posible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Like the Bhudda, Krishna, and Muhammad; to me Christ is a Symbol of the Birth in ones heart of a spiritual life. Gods divine power is beyond all comprehension and thought, no tounge has ever soiled his name and every single living thing is his child. Save the unholy trinity of course. This quote by Christ is a doozy: The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength...And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There are none other commandments greater than these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 i guess i'm growing used to the "anti christan" stuff, b/c i personally appreciate a seperate thread that clearly says "stay the fuck out if you think you will be affended"... of course in other words i haven't been affended so i guess thats a good thing... [i]will christianity ever die out?[/i] no... all the major religions aren't going anywhere, b/c it is taught from your parents for the most part... its not unfair though imo, considering that if it wasn't for that, there would be no chance b/c the media doesn't give any love to christians anymore... bung, you've been on your game on this thread... i've pretty much agreed w/ everything you've said... own, i hear ya man, but no offense, but this was the last thread to state that opinion in... like i said, i'm w/ ya though, as you can read through out the general forum... about stem cell research, i have mixed feelings about this... i've been reading up on it a little bit and it just scares me a little... i mean, i just don't feel comfortable messing around w/ life, and moving this cell here and doing all this stuff w/ the begining of life... reguardless of whether or not you think they are "alive" if you don't do anything, they eventually become life, so in other words "nature will take its course"... that is my main arguement of abortion, but lets not go down that road... i don't know exactly where i stand... i'm truely torn, but i (like bush i presume) wouldn't want to be the one that is authorizing it... he has done more than any other president in that field... but overall, i think its more out of fear of messing w/ life that is stopping people like myself from wholeheartedly endorsing it... its kind of the opposite of the iraqi war... anti war guys are afraid that we stirred up the hornets nest (as am i) but we have to take the chance, considering the benefits and consiquences if we don't... maybe we have to take our chances in stem cells, in order to reap the extreme potential benefits that could come out of it... its definatly something to think about... we are towing a line right now, and some success has come from adult stem cells and the cells from the embellical cord, but the tricky one is the one i'm against... one key pro for adult stem cells, is they aren't rejected like most of the embryonic cells are right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote]The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy [b][u]God[/u][/b] with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength[/quote] [color="green"][i][b]Shouldn't it be Love thy Fellow "person" instead of God. No because by invoking loving God that means you have to do what he says, pay your fees to his groupies, build his palaces, help support the men who cloth themselves in his falsehood..... as for the second quote that one is fine.... although it shouldn't just be your neighbor... which was obviously chosen because that would mean members of your own tribe or nation... and at the time there were many commandments not to mix races, and to kill other nations. [/b][/i][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [i][b]Own.... I still can't believe you jumped into the --- will Christianity ever die out thread and was like "what's with the Christian Bashing"? [/b][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Naw black it's all one quote from Jesus to St. Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 There is nothing rational about believing in the bible. It's driven by emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 It is one piece of the puzzel imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Embryonic Stem Cells have nothing to do with abortion.. First of all, most abortions take place after the stage where stem cells could be extracted... Secondly, embryos removed during abortion would be damaged, and even if not, are not preserved for study. Lastly (and most important), the stem cells need to be genetically compatible with the patient who would be receiving them. This requires the patient to donate a cell to help create the stem cells. Thus, an embryo created by two people other than the patient, would not work. The most practical (and commonly used) source for embryonic stem cells are from in-vitro fertilization clinics. When a couple goes through the in-vitro process, doctors remove [b]MANY[/b] eggs from the prospective mother. This is to ensure that a viable fertile egg is obtained. An egg is fertilized, and then transplanted to the mother to continue gestation. Once the procedure is completed the remainder of the extracted eggs are [b]destroyed[/b]. HOWEVER... By removing the nucleus of a donor egg, and then fusing the egg with a donor CELL ([b]NOT[/b] a sperm cell, there is no fertilization here), you can create a blastocyst (which is basically a cluster of stem cells). These blastocysts could [b]NEVER[/b] grow into a fetus because they lack the essential chromosomes that would be provided by the sperm. And without creating the stem cells, the eggs would just be destroyed. I think it is very important that people understand this because everyone I have talked to that is against stem cell research always brings up the whole abortion/destruction of life issue... Which is basically just plain wrong. If you don't agree with stem cell research.. Fine... But at least understand the science enough to know [b]WHY[/b] you don't. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic_stem_cells"]Stem cells - Wikipedia[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 after reading through that explaination, i still come back to the fact that you are messing w/ life... it scares me... and it comes down to when you believe the "life" of a human starts, and whether or not you believe a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_embryogenesis"]blastocyst[/url] is a human yet or not... i say yes... [i]A whole human (like all other mammals) develops from a single cell called a zygote, which results from an [b]oocyte (egg) being fertilized by a single sperm[/b]. The zygote is surrounded by a strong membrane (made of glycoproteins) called the zona pellucida which the successful sperm has managed to penetrate.[/i] it sounds to me, that the egg is fertilized by a single sperm... that equals life to me.. just my opinion...i keep reading more and more articles, trying to grasp the whole concept and give an honest answer, but i just ain't totally getting it lucid...maybe you can help me... this week old embryo is just an egg inside of the womans body, that is taken out scientifically, put into a petri dish and fertilized w/ a single sperm... am i right? in this case, it is not an abortion that creates it... you just have to literally create the life yourself, in a labortory... we're messing w/ life, and it doesn't seem right... like i said in my earlier post though, maybe we need to take the risk... i just don't know... i'm glad i'm not the one having to make that decision, b/c i probably wouldn't allow it either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 I agree with you Bung I want us to work on helping life but not at the risk of destroying it, and there are alternatives to Eymbroinc Stem Cell Research. [url="http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2001/06/18/story3.html"]http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stor.../18/story3.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Everyone on here should read that Wikipedia link Lucid provided (and read the whole article). If nothing else than to become more informed about the topic than just what you hear from other people. Stem cell research IS going to occur, whether in our country or not. However, we (the US) have the best resources to conduct that research. We should be taking the lead and making sure it is conducted correctly and ethically. On a broader thought, stem cell research can be considered a form of human evolution. Our species has the cognizant ability to alter itself as such. In the future we can be creating humans that dont suffer from the same diseases that they do today. Some would argue that we should "let nature take its course". To those I would say it IS nature taking its course. Nature has evolved us to the point that we can alter ourselves. That is why the US should take the lead in this research and conduct it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CTBengalsFan Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 9 2005, 10:45 AM']after reading through that explaination, i still come back to the fact that you are messing w/ life... it scares me... and it comes down to when you believe the "life" of a human starts, and whether or not you believe a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_embryogenesis"]blastocyst[/url] is a human yet or not... i say yes... [i]A whole human (like all other mammals) develops from a single cell called a zygote, which results from an [b]oocyte (egg) being fertilized by a single sperm[/b]. The zygote is surrounded by a strong membrane (made of glycoproteins) called the zona pellucida which the successful sperm has managed to penetrate.[/i] it sounds to me, that the egg is fertilized by a single sperm... that equals life to me.. just my opinion...i keep reading more and more articles, trying to grasp the whole concept and give an honest answer, but i just ain't totally getting it lucid...maybe you can help me... this week old embryo is just an egg inside of the womans body, that is taken out scientifically, put into a petri dish and fertilized w/ a single sperm... am i right? in this case, it is not an abortion that creates it... you just have to literally create the life yourself, in a labortory... we're messing w/ life, and it doesn't seem right... like i said in my earlier post though, maybe we need to take the risk... i just don't know... i'm glad i'm not the one having to make that decision, b/c i probably wouldn't allow it either... [right][post="112553"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] it shouldn't matter that it scares [i]you[/i]. if you don't want anything to do with it then fine. but there are many people who could get better with this treatment, and I don't think other people's personal beliefs should interfere with that. don't you think you might be a little less scared of it, say, if you needed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehead Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Eistein I do not believe in God. I do not believe in Heaven or Hell. When you die, it is over. There is no divine spark to existence and there is no purpose to our existence. How do I know? I don't and neither does anyone else. So the bottom line is you let me do what I want and I'll let you do what you want. If you want to be anti-abortion, anti-stemcell, or anti-gay, that's fine, but don't push that on others. Don't have abortions, don't have treatments for Alzheimer's, and don't attend the wedding. Live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Here's my Einstein quote: "My religion consits of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 are you guys only reading whatever the fuck you want to w/ my posts... i'm not pushing "religion" i think it is fucking scary to mess w/ creating and destroying life... does it have to revolve around God... did i say, "if we do this, we are all going to hell" ? fuck no... i am anti abortion, i am split on stem cells... neither have to do directly w/ believing in God or heaven and hell... and knucklehead tells me to not push anti abortion or anti stem cells on others... do you think before you type? if you are anti abortion, then you are that way b/c you equate it w/ a type of murder... get that through your thick skull that people that think that way, are disgusted by that shit... i don't think someone elses life is their parents choice to have... many people can believe in "nature taking its course" and not equate it w/ God in Heaven w/ a magic wand, doing whatever he pleases... if you get pregant b/c your rubber broke and you don't want to have the baby b/c you are 17 and you got school and don't want to get fat, tough fucking luck... i thought i was going to be a dad when i was like 15 years old... lucky for me, it was a sick fucking joke, and i promptly broke the up w/ the bitch... i'm getting tired of religion being the source of bashing around here... how else can i explain it... religion is something that is in you, and if you want me to believe things while i leave my religious ethics on the side your crazy... so if you want to take religion out, i still think murder is wrong, and i still think that if you get pregnant and you kill the pregnancy, then you killed the baby... not one mention of God... stem cells is a harder sell... i mean, your not killing a baby per say, but your creating something (this is where i don't know about... it can't be grown to be a baby at this point) and then destroying it... if i DECIDE that this isn't destroying a human, then i can probably get around it... education about the facts is necessary in this case, b/c that is a key difference from abortion to this... abortion, you are killing a human being, and stem cells you are killing a human embryo (that has no chance to live, and can only be used for science)... i think that i am for stem cell research in the long run... but you guys act like i'm crazy for not trying to think it through, and not being scared... whatever... thanks to those that educated me, instead of bashed me... [i]it shouldn't matter that it scares you. if you don't want anything to do with it then fine. but there are many people who could get better with this treatment, and I don't think other people's personal beliefs should interfere with that. don't you think you might be a little less scared of it, say, if you needed it?[/i] i can't put aside my beliefs... we live in a democracy, so this kind of decision is made by a majority vote... no, we don't go door to door and vote it in, but we do vote in a president and a senate... things don't happen over night... if i needed the treatments myself is kind of irrelevant to me... first of all, my grandmother has parkisons disease and could use the potential benefits... but the treatment is (best case) a decade away from being anywhere... at least, that is what i have read and heard in the past... at that point, i have to figure that my parents, or myself would need some sort of medical breakthrough at some point in our lives... i do take all of this into consideration... we are closer to some breakthroughs in adult stem cells and the cells that are taken from embellical cords... [IOn a broader thought, stem cell research can be considered a form of human evolution. Our species has the cognizant ability to alter itself as such. In the future we can be creating humans that dont suffer from the same diseases that they do today. Some would argue that we should "let nature take its course". To those I would say it IS nature taking its course. Nature has evolved us to the point that we can alter ourselves. That is why the US should take the lead in this research and conduct it correctly.[/I] - beaker i use this arguement w/ abortion, but your right, you can't w/ stem cells... it is a sort of evolution, b/c 100 years ago, the flu was the biggest killer and people only lived to an average around 45 or so... alot has happened in just 100 years, and i think i can endorse continuing this research... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 9 2005, 12:56 PM']are you guys only reading whatever the fuck you want to w/ my posts... i'm not pushing "religion" i think it is fucking scary to mess w/ creating and destroying life... does it have to revolve around God... did i say, "if we do this, we are all going to hell" ? fuck no... i am anti abortion, i am split on stem cells... neither have to do directly w/ believing in God or heaven and hell... and knucklehead tells me to not push anti abortion or anti stem cells on others... do you think before you type? if you are anti abortion, then you are that way b/c you equate it w/ a type of murder... get that through your thick skull that people that think that way, are disgusted by that shit... i don't think someone elses life is their parents choice to have... many people can believe in "nature taking its course" and not equate it w/ God in Heaven w/ a magic wand, doing whatever he pleases... if you get pregant b/c your rubber broke and you don't want to have the baby b/c you are 17 and you got school and don't want to get fat, tough fucking luck... i thought i was going to be a dad when i was like 15 years old... lucky for me, it was a sick fucking joke, and i promptly broke the up w/ the bitch... i'm getting tired of religion being the source of bashing around here... how else can i explain it... religion is something that is in you, and if you want me to believe things while i leave my religious ethics on the side your crazy... so if you want to take religion out, i still think murder is wrong, and i still think that if you get pregnant and you kill the pregnancy, then you killed the baby... not one mention of God... stem cells is a harder sell... i mean, your not killing a baby per say, but your creating something (this is where i don't know about... it can't be grown to be a baby at this point) and then destroying it... if i DECIDE that this isn't destroying a human, then i can probably get around it... education about the facts is necessary in this case, b/c that is a key difference from abortion to this... abortion, you are killing a human being, and stem cells you are killing a human embryo (that has no chance to live, and can only be used for science)... i think that i am for stem cell research in the long run... but you guys act like i'm crazy for not trying to think it through, and not being scared... whatever... thanks to those that educated me, instead of bashed me... [i]it shouldn't matter that it scares you. if you don't want anything to do with it then fine. but there are many people who could get better with this treatment, and I don't think other people's personal beliefs should interfere with that. don't you think you might be a little less scared of it, say, if you needed it?[/i] i can't put aside my beliefs... we live in a democracy, so this kind of decision is made by a majority vote... no, we don't go door to door and vote it in, but we do vote in a president and a senate... things don't happen over night... if i needed the treatments myself is kind of irrelevant to me... first of all, my grandmother has parkisons disease and could use the potential benefits... but the treatment is (best case) a decade away from being anywhere... at least, that is what i have read and heard in the past... at that point, i have to figure that my parents, or myself would need some sort of medical breakthrough at some point in our lives... i do take all of this into consideration... we are closer to some breakthroughs in adult stem cells and the cells that are taken from embellical cords... [IOn a broader thought, stem cell research can be considered a form of human evolution. Our species has the cognizant ability to alter itself as such. In the future we can be creating humans that dont suffer from the same diseases that they do today. Some would argue that we should "let nature take its course". To those I would say it IS nature taking its course. Nature has evolved us to the point that we can alter ourselves. That is why the US should take the lead in this research and conduct it correctly.[/I] - beaker i use this arguement w/ abortion, but your right, you can't w/ stem cells... it is a sort of evolution, b/c 100 years ago, the flu was the biggest killer and people only lived to an average around 45 or so... alot has happened in just 100 years, and i think i can endorse continuing this research... [right][post="112586"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] This thread was "For the athiests around here..." Everything written in this thread is assumed to be for or against God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 [quote name='sean' date='Jul 9 2005, 01:10 PM']This thread was "For the athiests around here..." Everything written in this thread is assumed to be for or against God. [right][post="112591"][/post][/right][/quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] i even said something about that to own last night... i forget where i wondered into... my bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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