Ferguson

[Jamie_B]

Since the other thread was closed.

Justice Department is suing Ferguson

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/09/us/ferguson-justice-department-agreement-vote/

Justice Department sues Ferguson over police conduct

(CNN)The feds are suing Ferguson in a move to force police reform in the city.

"We intend to aggressively prosecute this case," Attorney General Loretta Lynch told reporters Wednesday, "and we intend to prevail."

Authorities had no choice but to file a lawsuit after the Ferguson City Council voted Tuesday to change the terms of a deal negotiators had been hashing out for months, Lynch said.

"The residents of Ferguson have suffered the deprivation of their constitutional rights, the rights guaranteed to all Americans, for decades. They have waited decades for justice," Lynch said. "They should not be forced to wait any longer."

The lawsuit alleges a pattern and practice of unconstitutional police conduct in the city.

A city spokesman told CNN that officials will have no comment about the Justice Department's lawsuit until Thursday.

Ferguson officials have not seen the lawsuit, city spokesman Jeff Small said.

Negotiations over reforms to the city's police force and municipal court system began after a Justice Department investigation last year found the Ferguson Police Department had discriminated against African-Americans, targeting them disproportionately for traffic stops, use of force and jail sentences.

"These violations were not only egregious, they were routine. They were encouraged by the city in the interest of raising revenue," Lynch said Wednesday. "They were driven, at least in part, by racial bias and they occurred disproportionately against African American residents of Ferguson."

City officials have said their Tuesday vote wasn't a rejection of a deal with the Justice Department but was rather a push to return to the table and change some of the terms out of concerns over costs.

Lynch said the council knowingly voted against an agreement approved by the city's own negotiators.

"The city was well aware that by deciding not to accept it, they were choosing litigation," she said. "This was their choice."

 

City Council proposed seven amendments

 

In a unanimous vote Tuesday night, council members approved the deal -- but only if the Justice Department accepts seven amendments.

The Justice Department wasn't expecting any changes to the negotiated deal and wasted little time in responding.

"The Ferguson City Council has attempted to unilaterally amend the negotiated agreement," Vanita Gupta, head of the agency's Civil Rights Division, said in a statement. "Their vote to do so creates an unnecessary delay in the essential work to bring constitutional policing to the city, and marks an unfortunate outcome for concerned community members and Ferguson police officers."

The national spotlight on Ferguson began after the fatal shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson in August 2014. Brown, who was unarmed, was black, and Wilson is white. Brown's death prompted days of protests and riots in Ferguson and a national conversation about the role of race in police interactions with citizens.

Reaction to the City Council vote was mixed, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.

One activist, Debra Kennedy, called the public hearings "a farce, because the DOJ is not going to go back and renegotiate," the newspaper reported. "It was like a 'no' vote."

Others chanted, "You can't amend justice," according to the Post-Dispatch.

 

Seven months of negotiation

 

The agreement that City Council wants to change was negotiated over seven months between the city and the Justice Department.

"Although we did not get everything we wanted in the agreement, we certainly made sure that what was agreed upon can be implemented in a timely and sufficient manner," Ferguson Mayor James Knowles III said of the consent decree the city received January 26.

"We're not trying to take away any safeguards," Knowles told CNN affiliate KMOV. "We're not trying to take away anything substantive out of the decree."

City Councilwoman Ella James agreed.

"There are some things in the consent decree that we're asking to be amended, but all in all I think we're moving forward, we're moving in a positive direction," she told CNN affiliate KTVI.

 

What City Council wants

 

The original agreement would require the city to hire additional senior staff dedicated to the implementation of the deal and in areas such as crisis intervention and community-police relations. Other costs to the city of Ferguson would include the creation of an electronic complaint tracking system, an early intervention system and training throughout various levels of the police department.

In its amendments, the City Council demanded the following changes in order for the decree to go into effect:

• That it contains no mandate for the payment of additional salary to police or other city employees.

• That it contains no mandate for staffing at the city's jail.

• That the deadlines set forth are extended.

• That the terms do not apply to other agencies that take over services currently provided by the city.

• That a provision for local preference in contractors and consultants is included.

• That goals for minority and women participation in consulting, oversight and third-party services are included.

• That monitoring fee caps are changed to $1 million over the first five years and no more than $250,000 in any single year.

 

'Just sign it'

 

Spirited public input preceded Tuesday night's vote.

"Black lives matter! Black lives matter!" chanted one community member.

Another suggested it was time to wrap up this chapter in the city's history.

"It's time to stop. Just go and sign the decree. You still haven`t settled the Mike Brown settlement," he said. "Get it done. Just sign it."

Brown's parents filed a wrongful death suit against the city in April.

 

Justice Department found pattern of discrimination

 

The 102-page report issued by the Justice Department last March said some Ferguson police officers saw residents as "sources of revenue," leading to practices that federal investigators said disproportionately targeted black residents.

It also found evidence of racist jokes sent by some Ferguson police officers and court officials.

The department made 26 recommendations, including:

• Ferguson police provide training to ensure officers aren't using bias in policing.

• Officers practice community policing by getting out of cars and getting to know communities.

• Focus police stops, searches and ticketing on protecting the public, as opposed to fund-raising for the city.

Also in March, the Justice Department declined to bring civil rights charges against Wilson in Brown's death. Justice Department investigators concluded Brown was moving toward the officer when Wilson fired.

A grand jury also declined to indict Wilson, who left the force in November 2014.

[ArizonaRising]

http://m.imgur.com/enZF3pw

[Jamie_B]

?

[|Lucid|]

?

 

That the DOJ watches lots of PBS and based their judgement on the constitutionality of Ferguson policing based entirely off it? Stupid I know, but it's the only thing I can think of that he might be suggesting with that link.

[ArizonaRising]

I'm suggesting Michael Brown was attacking and trying to kill Darren Wilson and his shots were completely justified. The looting, rioting and violence that have followed was all based off a false narrative of MB having his hands up. Of course the police profile people based on race in Ferguson.

It's called knowing the most likely group of people perpetrating crime, especially after the verdict concerning Darren Wilson. In a utopian city, hopefully we find perfect equality but then there's the harsh reality of a Ferguson. Keep enabling and justifying.  

[Jamie_B]

You are aware that this is about the Fergason PD issues and not Michael Brown? You are aware the DOJ ruled that there were a pattern of racial disparities in how the police there treated minorities that had nothing to do with Michael Brown?

Read the report for yourself - http://www.vox.com/2015/3/4/8148915/ferguson-police-racism-doj-report

[T-Dub]

I'm suggesting Michael Brown was attacking and trying to kill Darren Wilson and his shots were completely justified. The looting, rioting and violence that have followed was all based off a false narrative of MB having his hands up. Of course the police profile people based on race in Ferguson.

It's called knowing the most likely group of people perpetrating crime,

 

Sure, like how in cities with a white majority the cops pull people over for being white.  That's totally a thing that happens.

 

Somehow I suspect that a year-long US DOJ investigation has a little better grasp of the facts involved than you do.

 

 

[ArizonaRising]

 

Sure, like how in cities with a white majority the cops pull people over for being white.  That's totally a thing that happens.

 

Somehow I suspect that a year-long US DOJ investigation has a little better grasp of the facts involved than you do.

 

 

Oh yes, they may have a better grasp of the "facts" but Lorretta Lynch (attorney general, head of the DOJ, Obama appointee) will only promigate  a narrative that suits the leftist war on the rich and cops disguised as a war against "white supremacy". 

It's like you boys haven't even read The Communist Manifesto. Or Obama's book. All of you gullible and useful idiots. 

[T-Dub]

Oh yes, they may have a better grasp of the "facts" but Lorretta Lynch (attorney general, head of the DOJ, Obama appointee) will only promigate  a narrative that suits the leftist war on the rich and cops disguised as a war against "white supremacy". 

It's like you boys haven't even read The Communist Manifesto. Or Obama's book. All of you gullible and useful idiots. 

 

Yes yes, everyone is a clueless sheep except for you & Glenn Beck.

 

leftist war on the rich and cops

 

Fascinating.  You don't have to answer this, but are you rich or a cop?  Gonna leave that Steinbeck quote here:

 

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

 

What you've constructed for yourself (or more likely borrowed) is an unfalsifiable theory.  Meaning any evidence to the contrary is, to you, only further proof of the conspiracy.  This is not a reasonable view.  I suppose Loretta Lynch fabricated those racist emails being passed around the Ferguson PD/City council?  Amazing how she had time to record a new album, adding to possibly the greatest country music discography by a woman artist.  (j/k)

[Jamie_B]

Oh yes, they may have a better grasp of the "facts" but Lorretta Lynch (attorney general, head of the DOJ, Obama appointee) will only promigate  a narrative that suits the leftist war on the rich and cops disguised as a war against "white supremacy". 

It's like you boys haven't even read The Communist Manifesto. Or Obama's book. All of you gullible and useful idiots. 

[ArizonaRising]

Sure, like how in cities with a white majority the cops pull people over for being white.  That's totally a thing that happens.

 

Somehow I suspect that a year-long US DOJ investigation has a little better grasp of the facts involved than you do.

 

 

I haven't heard a word from Glenn Beck since I decided to almost completely cut out all MSM outlets. He's an idiot along the lines of a Louis Farrakhan, only less blatantly hateful and violent.

Nah, I'm a lower-middle class whitey. I have such great white privilege ?

I work two jobs and don't blame my multiple misdemeanors and traffic stops I've gotten on some "systematical oppression" cop-out. I've even gotten body slammed by a cop whilst he was patting me down, he grabbed my dick like a propspector clutches a shiny rock and I had a momentary knee-jerk reaction and touched his wrist, BOOM, next thing I know I'm on the ground. But, I digress.

It was a bit ridiculous and cops can be some jack-booted thugs too because alot of them were bullied, suppressed little whims in high school. But, a lot of them are great men who are doing a tough job, risking their lives. Nowhere is that more evident that in Ferguson or Baltimore where chaos is rampant and everyone is on edge.

We need to be standing by our police officers (not undermining them) like we failed to do with Darren Wilson. Else, this false narrative gets promulgated and then the riots, crime and violent increase tenfold.  

Tell me, did anyone hear about the Marine who won Bronze stars in Iraq getting jumped by 6 black teens at a McDonalds in DC, hit in the back of the head as he was walking away and knocked out and had his wallet stolen? They were yelling at him about "Black Lives Matter" and when he ignored them, they called him racist and as he was walking towards his car, they assaulted him. 

White cops are not the problem. Look at how many unjustified police killings there actually are a year. Look at the DOJ statistics that 13.2% of the population (blacks) commit 49% of the homicides. Look at this breakdown of the racial violent crime statistics. In a perfect world, yes the cops shouldn't be more likely to pull over a car because their black. But, damn with the way Ferguson has been, it's just damn common sense to be cautious when your life can be on the line. Correlation isn't always causation either.  The car might be more likely to have expired tags, faulty mechanical issues (brake lights, headlights, etc.) or the fact that these police officers see these same cars in their communities on a daily basis and know that the occupants are up to no good. The whole study is based on a false correlation-causation narrative and a whole lot of speculation and bias. Like if a white guy did a study on how many rebel flags needed to be taken down to end racism. 

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/

[T-Dub]

Tell me, did anyone hear about the Marine who won Bronze stars in Iraq getting jumped by 6 black teens at a McDonalds in DC, hit in the back of the head as he was walking away and knocked out and had his wallet stolen? They were yelling at him about "Black Lives Matter" and when he ignored them, they called him racist and as he was walking towards his car, they assaulted him.

Oh, are we having story time?

James Byrd, Jr. was an African-American man who was murdered by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas on June 7, 1998. Shawn Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and John King dragged Byrd for three miles behind a truck. Byrd, who remained conscious throughout most of the ordeal, was killed when his body hit the edge of a culvert, severing his right arm and head. The murderers drove on for another mile before dumping his torso in front of an African-American cemetery in Jasper.

What do these stories have to do with a racist police force & town government?  You tell me.

 

 

White cops are not the problem.

 

Very true; only 3 of the 6 cops on trial in the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore are white. Systematic abuse, racially-biased law enforcement and ultimately a lack of police accountability are the problems.

 

Look at the DOJ statistics that 13.2% of the population (blacks) commit 49% of the homicides. Look at this breakdown of the racial violent crime statistics.

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/

Can you provide a link for these crime statistics that's not a far-right racist website? The last time I saw that DOJ report posted somewhere reputable there was no information about the race of the accused, only the victim.

 

But, damn with the way Ferguson has been, it's just damn common sense to be cautious when your life can be on the line.

 

This is problematic for two reasons;

1. You have your timeline backwards.  "The way Ferguson has been" was a result of a questionable police shooting in an environment of proven racially-biased law enforcement,  You're essentially claiming that racially-biased law enforcement was justified because people were upset about racially-biased law enforcement.

2. I have family that were cops.  Their "lives were on the line" on every traffic stop, every DV call, every drunken party they had to break up, every call they responded to no matter how seemingly mundane. Every time they put on the uniform and hit the street their lives were at risk. That's the job. You're trying to use that as an excuse for racism and brutality.  That's bullshit & they would tell you the same thing,  If you can't handle the pressure of of being a LEO without turning into a racist shitbag you have no business wearing a badge.

 

Not to put too fine a point on all this, but you can kindly fuck right off with your "Well black people deserve it" argument.

[Jamie_B]

I haven't heard a word from Glenn Beck since I decided to almost completely cut out all MSM outlets. He's an idiot along the lines of a Louis Farrakhan, only less blatantly hateful and violent.

Nah, I'm a lower-middle class whitey. I have such great white privilege ?

I work two jobs and don't blame my multiple misdemeanors and traffic stops I've gotten on some "systematical oppression" cop-out. I've even gotten body slammed by a cop whilst he was patting me down, he grabbed my dick like a propspector clutches a shiny rock and I had a momentary knee-jerk reaction and touched his wrist, BOOM, next thing I know I'm on the ground. But, I digress.

It was a bit ridiculous and cops can be some jack-booted thugs too because alot of them were bullied, suppressed little whims in high school. But, a lot of them are great men who are doing a tough job, risking their lives. Nowhere is that more evident that in Ferguson or Baltimore where chaos is rampant and everyone is on edge.

We need to be standing by our police officers (not undermining them) like we failed to do with Darren Wilson. Else, this false narrative gets promulgated and then the riots, crime and violent increase tenfold.  

Tell me, did anyone hear about the Marine who won Bronze stars in Iraq getting jumped by 6 black teens at a McDonalds in DC, hit in the back of the head as he was walking away and knocked out and had his wallet stolen? They were yelling at him about "Black Lives Matter" and when he ignored them, they called him racist and as he was walking towards his car, they assaulted him. 

White cops are not the problem. Look at how many unjustified police killings there actually are a year. Look at the DOJ statistics that 13.2% of the population (blacks) commit 49% of the homicides. Look at this breakdown of the racial violent crime statistics. In a perfect world, yes the cops shouldn't be more likely to pull over a car because their black. But, damn with the way Ferguson has been, it's just damn common sense to be cautious when your life can be on the line. Correlation isn't always causation either.  The car might be more likely to have expired tags, faulty mechanical issues (brake lights, headlights, etc.) or the fact that these police officers see these same cars in their communities on a daily basis and know that the occupants are up to no good. The whole study is based on a false correlation-causation narrative and a whole lot of speculation and bias. Like if a white guy did a study on how many rebel flags needed to be taken down to end racism. 

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/

Bro the DOJ did a investigation into the Ferguson police department, they found that there was indeed racism within the department that isnt up for debate, that is the ruling. They gave the department X amount of time to show them they were doing something about it. They didn't. They are in the wrong here, and as such the DOJ is rightfully perusing it. There isnt any amount of unrelated stories you can post that changes that. The FPD is in the wrong and needs to change.

[ArizonaRising]

 

Oh, are we having story time?

James Byrd, Jr. was an African-American man who was murdered by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas on June 7, 1998. Shawn Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and John King dragged Byrd for three miles behind a truck. Byrd, who remained conscious throughout most of the ordeal, was killed when his body hit the edge of a culvert, severing his right arm and head. The murderers drove on for another mile before dumping his torso in front of an African-American cemetery in Jasper.

What do these stories have to do with a racist police force & town government?  You tell me.

 

 

 

Very true; only 3 of the 6 cops on trial in the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore are white. Systematic abuse, racially-biased law enforcement and ultimately a lack of police accountability are the problems.

 

 

Can you provide a link for these crime statistics that's not a far-right racist website? The last time I saw that DOJ report posted somewhere reputable there was no information about the race of the accused, only the victim.

 

 

This is problematic for two reasons;

1. You have your timeline backwards.  "The way Ferguson has been" was a result of a questionable police shooting in an environment of proven racially-biased law enforcement,  You're essentially claiming that racially-biased law enforcement was justified because people were upset about racially-biased law enforcement.

2. I have family that were cops.  Their "lives were on the line" on every traffic stop, every DV call, every drunken party they had to break up, every call they responded to no matter how seemingly mundane. Every time they put on the uniform and hit the street their lives were at risk. That's the job. You're trying to use that as an excuse for racism and brutality.  That's bullshit & they would tell you the same thing,  If you can't handle the pressure of of being a LEO without turning into a racist shitbag you have no business wearing a badge.

 

Not to put too fine a point on all this, but you can kindly fuck right off with your "Well black people deserve it" argument.

What about the Wichita massacre in 2000 where two black brothers by the name of Carr killed 5 white people, male and female? Raped the two women and forced all of them to engage in sexual acts with each other. Every race has perpetrated horrors against other races.  Bringing up one case of horrible white supremacist murder of 18 years ago to justify BLM violence is ridiculous. 

FBI.gov has a ton of information. The murder rate and violent crime statistics particular in this table 

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

And that table is a nationwide statistic, nothing approaching the reality of the local community of Ferguson or Baltimore. 

There is no excuse for racism like the emails you alluded to or brutality. The mafiaoso thuggery of police needs to end...but they extend that to whites and other minorities almost all frequently. Just dabbing at the wound of police brutality in regards to black is just a half-measure. Better to completely bandage it. But, there is some cupablility with some people in communities who will not obey reasonable law enforcement.  

That's a mischaracterization of my argument completely. A whole group of people is not culpable for the actions of a few in the group. If that were the case, we should probably put all the politicians to the sword for the Iraq war.

[T-Dub]

Bringing up one case of horrible white supremacist murder of 18 years ago to justify BLM violence is ridiculous

 

Er.. I wasn't attempting to justify anything.  I'm curious as to why you mentioned 2 people allegedly attacking someone in DC, with no source provided? What's the point of that?  You do realize that BLM has no formal membership or leadership? It's a hashtag, it's not really an organized group like, for example, the KKK.

As far as that FBI study..  This is tabulating arrests & not crimes? It shows that, in the case of murder, blacks & whites are roughly equally likely to be arrested. This says nothing of the likelihood of committing the crime, in other words.  It's also worth noting that for virtually every other crime category, the likelihood of an arrest are about 2-3 times greater for a white suspect vs a black one.  These stats do not, for example, say that whites are more than twice as likely to commit rape than blacks.  They are more than twice as likely to be arrested for it, which is not at all the same thing.