Guest ONYX Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 The father of a soldier killed in Iraq last year says................. "If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I'll do that," said the soldier's father, Gary Qualls, a friend of the local business owner who started the pro-Bush camp. He said his 16-year-old son now wants to enlist, and he supports that decision" Personally, I find that statement both extremely patriotic as well as perversed. But thats just my opinion. So people, I ask you.........."Would you be willing to see your spouse, son, daughter, niece, nephew, brother, sister, etc. die as long as g.dubya's war in Iraq is succesful? [url="http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/20/crawford.counterprotest.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/20/crawford....t.ap/index.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [quote]"If I have to sacrifice my whole family for the sake of our country and world, other countries that want freedom, I'll do that,"[/quote] [img]http://www2.bc.edu/~driver/morans.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [i]Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron. [/i] [b]- Dwight Eisenhower 1953 speech [/b] [i]It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it. [/i] [b]- General Douglas MacArthur [/b] [i] Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction. [/i] [b]- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [quote].........."Would you be willing to see your spouse, son, daughter, niece, nephew, brother, sister, etc. die as long as g.dubya's war in Iraq is succesful?[/quote] [color="green"][i][b]I wouldn't sacrifice any of my family for any war.... I myself would choose to die for certain principles... but I would never make that decision for someone else. As for this ongoing War in Iraq... I wouldn't send a stray cat over there... till Bush gives a clear plan of what the hell our objective is, outlines a clear plan of what we are supposed to be accomplishing, comes clean about our intentions, then provides the proper equipment.[/b][/i][/color] [img]http://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/leadingdemocracy080102.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 To answer my own question............NO. I too would never sacrifice my family and loved ones for any war. As far as sacrificing myself, there are only a few circumstances where I would lay down my life, but dying overseas in a land where the people and culture hate us to protect the interests of corporate America.........NO. I love America. I love pussy too. Im not willing to die for either one of them. It always trips me out when I hear people talk about "freedom". I hear people talking about fighting for "freedom" and dying for "freedom", does anybody really know what the fuck "freedom" really is. The type of freedom that America talks about is subjective not absolute. Subjective freedom is a democracy, absolute freedom would be anarchy. In 1776 America bore "freedom", but for the people who look like me, physical "freedom" didnt come until 1864. It took another 100 years for those same people to get civil "freedom". Now we want to give the Iraqi people some "freedom". So we go in their country with our missles and guns, and we've killed some "evil do-ers", and we've killed some innocents but thas just a small technicallity cause we are trying to give them some "freedom". We've stormed in the residents homes, and arrested some suspected "evil do-ers" and we've put them in jail without trial, some of them guilty, some of them innocent, all in the name of "freedom". We are the "Freedom Fighters". Then there is the matter of "our freedom" and how the war is for the freedom of americans and those who love democracy. "The war on terror" is to make sure we americans are safe. Safe from what? In case you have not heard, America is the most violent country in the world. Fact is, there is a greater chance of your next door neighbor killing you than any "terrorist". Now dont get me wrong, the events of 9/11 was one of the worst atrosities the world has ever seen, but that was a mass murder by sadistic madmen, not a miltary authorized attack from a foreign government like the politicians and the media want you to believe. The irony is, that "terrorism" isnt a middle eastern, muslim creation at all. "Terrorism" was born right here in the good ole U.S. of A by christians right here in the land of "freedom". Yep, yep its true, but they wernt called "terrorists" of course, cause that term didnt exist back then. They called themselves the Ku Klux Klan. They did stuff like snatching an unsuspecting innocent black man and hang him or shoot him or both. No different when "terrorists" kidnap an american and cut off his head, same principal. Sometimes the klan they would just plant bombs in churches so when little black girls would go to Sunday school they'd get blown to smitherines. Thats probably where these "terrorists" of today got the idea of bombing people. Those klan guys didnt particular like the ideal of "freedom" just like Jihad. The klan was also very religeous too, they like putting burning crosses in black folks yards. You know I think those Jihad are pretty religious too. But I digress.....so what are we fighting over there for? Oh thats right......."freedom". You know "freedom" is kinda like women, You cant live with it and you cant live without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Aug 21 2005, 08:50 AM'][i]It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it. [/i] [b]- General Douglas MacArthur [/b] [right][post="135257"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I find you posting this quote to be amazingly ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 explain to me again why i should sacrifice my family for a war that i dont agree with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 You all do realize that its not you doing the sacrificing, meaning you say this like its your choice if they join and go. Its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [quote name='sneaky' date='Aug 21 2005, 07:05 AM']To answer my own question............NO. I too would never sacrifice my family and loved ones for any war. [right][post="135274"][/post][/right][/quote] The fact that you feel safe enough to think this way is only possible because of the people who have made those sacrifices before you. It's quite possible that the only reason you exist is because of the people who have made those sacrifices. Pacifism is a wonderful ideal. Too bad there's reality out there to fuck it up. But you just keep your self righteous indignation towards those who have given their lives so that you could sit back and talk about what bad people they are. The "freedom" you enjoy allows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 No, not for empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Fortunately, the "freedom" to express openly our distaste or support for a war, our government, etc is a uniquely American problem to have. You can rant and rave or wave your flag or fall somewhere in between, and you have every right to do so. And guess what? Jackbooted Nazis will not kick in your door for that! Furthermore, until the draft is re-instated, this talk of "sacrificing your family" is nonsense. If my son or daughter were of age right now, and I was against the war in Iraq, and they decided to go against my wishes....that's their choice to make. Nobody's putting a gun to anybody's head to force military service, which, by the way, is one of the most honorable things you can do for your nation. If you roll the dice hoping to scoot through military service without having to fight in a conflict to collect college money, and you end up having to go to Iraq or wherever, please don't whine "woe is me"...it's the chance you take. Wars happen. Soldiers die. I believe the only real problem most level-headed people here have with this [i]particular[/i] war is the manner in which it was initiated, and the dangerous precedent for pre-emption we may have set. Most folks respect the soldier, and honor their service and sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='Aug 21 2005, 02:56 PM']The fact that you feel safe enough to think this way is only possible because of the people who have made those sacrifices before you. It's quite possible that the only reason you exist is because of the people who have made those sacrifices. Pacifism is a wonderful ideal. Too bad there's reality out there to fuck it up. But you just keep your self righteous indignation towards those who have given their lives so that you could sit back and talk about what bad people they are. The "freedom" you enjoy allows that. [right][post="135349"][/post][/right][/quote] I don't think so. Where did I call anybody "bad". I merely pointed out the fact that the U.S. in many ways are similar to the enemy they are fighting. The U.S. was founded on religious (christian) principals, so was Islamic Jihad. The U.S. has a history of terrorizing their own citizens (slavery,Ku Klux Klan, racism, etc) so does Iraq ( gassing of Kurds, Saddam Hussain's torture camps, random bombings). The insurgents are determined to kill the enemy (Americans) and they are willing to kill innocents and lay down their own lives for their cause. The U.S. are determine the kill the enemy (the insurgents) and are willing to kill innocents and lay down their own lives for their cause. That is not a matter of opinion or "self righteous indignation", it is a fact. Based on the principal that taking innocent lives is wrong regardless of what the cause is, it is not being "self righteous", its just being a decsent human being. Not wanting to support a preemptive attack on a third world nation based on deceptive reasons with nothing to gain but a surplus of oil and a massive loss of human life is not "pacifism", its just logical rational thinking. As for as your assertion that the only reason I can express myself and that I even exist is possible because someone had to die or someone had to kill is complete and utter bullshit. The reason that I exist and you for that matter is credited to a far greater power. As far as "freedom" is concerned, like I said, that is a subjective intangible. We always talk about "freedom" , but does anybody know what "freedom" really is? Supposedly the USA has been the land of "freedom" for nearly 250 years now. But "freedom" here has been historically an exclusive privilege. How long have african-americans had "freedom" ? Or women for that matter? Women have rights and "freedom" right? Yet, many want to take away their rights to their own body away by outlawing abortion. As if pregnant woman become hubs for babies and bearing children supersedes any right or desire if she opposes it. Maybe its murder, maybe its not. if it is murder, then thats a matter between that woman and her God. She will ultimately have to deal with that. A nation hell bent on the support of "freedom" shouldn't be trying to impose such laws. What about the "freedom" of homosexuals? Just because most (like myself) believe its not normal and it (homosexuality) contradicts the teaching of christianity, doesn't mean that they don't deserve the same "freedom" as everybody else. Why can't gay people get married if they want to? Gay people pay taxes too,.... right? This is the land of "freedom"..... right? Yes, chritianity opposes homosexuality, but do you have to be a christian to have "freedom" here? Last time I checked the U.S. was a secular government not a faith based government. I thought that made us different from the Taliban.....you know, the guys we are fighting. One final example of "freedom" in this country. I believe the House of Representatives are proposing an amendment to the Constitution to ban "flag burning". Now personally, I find this to be the prime example of what I'm talking about. Lets see....its legal to offend blacks, women,gays, jews, or anybody else in this country (provided its done in accordance to the law) but they don't want you to burn a flag cause that would offend all that fought and died for this country so that we could have the "freedom" to offend blacks, women, gays, jews, or anybody else in this country. Sounds kind of counter productive to me. You are right about one thing BengalBacker, I should enjoy my "freedom".......while I still have it. Cause if the day comes that I don't have "freedom" it wont be because of those abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [img]http://www.indymedia.org/images/2004/04/110927.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [img]http://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/Liberation.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 My comment was only directed at the lines I quoted. [b]To answer my own question............NO. I too would never sacrifice my family and loved ones for any war.[/b] I think that implies that you see yourself as being on higher moral ground than those who have made those sacrifices, therefore making you good and them bad. The guy you originally quoted, in the context he was quoted, sounded uncaring towards his family. I doubt that that's what he was trying to say. I think his point was that sometimes people have to make sacrifices for the greater good. I agree with that. Whether or not Iraq is worthy of such sacrifices is certainly debatable, but without knowing the consequences of not going there, it's impossible to say with certainty. Many people who post here present good arguments for both sides. In my opinion, so far you aren't one of those people. Your arguments on most of the issues that I've seen you comment on seems to be mindless, over simplistic rhetoric common to young, idealistic, people who think the world should work the way they want it to work, rather than the way it does. 25 years ago, I might have written the same things. I'm sure you think I'm full of shit, and that's fine. We all have different perspectives. Sometimes there is no absolute right and wrong. As to your assertion that those who have had to die, or had to kill have nothing to do with our existence, but it's due to a far greater power, well I disagree. I personally don't believe in God, but even if I did, I think to totally discount those who have died, and killed for our country shows your lack of a sense of reality and quite frankly, pretty pathetic. As far as all the other things you ranted about, we've been over all of those issues countless times on here, and I'm not in the mood to repeat myself at the moment. I'll just say, don't ever think you've got it all figured out, and what you believe is the absolute truth. That goes for all sides of every issue. Spewing rhetoric based on half truths and catch phrases seldom sways people to your side. At least not people who use common sense. Of course common sense seems to be a rare commodity these days. You might as well just post cartoons with simplistic messages that ignore logic and real issues just to try to make the opposition look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 [quote name='sneaky' date='Aug 21 2005, 07:17 PM']The U.S. was founded on religious (christian) principals, so was Islamic Jihad. [right][post="135410"][/post][/right][/quote] I find it funny that people say this, and then use the argument that many of our founding fathers were atheists/agnostics in another argument. Which is it? Pick one, please. Another thing, homosexuals will lose freedom if they are allowed to marry. [quote]Subjective freedom is a democracy, absolute freedom would be anarchy.[/quote] Even in anarchy, one is not completely free. It is impossible to be free in the physical world. One will always be a slave to something. It is necessary to eat, drink and stay warm, there's no such thing as freedom. Without laws, you would have to find food, fend for yourself, stay warm in the winter, cool in the summer. The stuff won't just be there for you, you have to go out and get it, therefore you are a slave to the necessities of life. Be happy that here in America, it is easier to get most of those things than many other countries. Also, you can eat whatever food you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='Aug 21 2005, 07:31 PM'] My comment was only directed at the lines I quoted. [b]To answer my own question............NO. I too would never sacrifice my family and loved ones for any war.[/b] I think that implies that you see yourself as being on higher moral ground than those who have made those sacrifices, therefore making you good and them bad. The guy you originally quoted, in the context he was quoted, sounded uncaring towards his family. I doubt that that's what he was trying to say. I think his point was that sometimes people have to make sacrifices for the greater good. I agree with that. Whether or not Iraq is worthy of such sacrifices is certainly debatable, but without knowing the consequences of not going there, it's impossible to say with certainty. Many people who post here present good arguments for both sides. In my opinion, so far you aren't one of those people. Your arguments on most of the issues that I've seen you comment on seems to be mindless, over simplistic rhetoric common to young, idealistic, people who think the world should work the way they want it to work, rather than the way it does. 25 years ago, I might have written the same things. I'm sure you think I'm full of shit, and that's fine. We all have different perspectives. Sometimes there is no absolute right and wrong. As to your assertion that those who have had to die, or had to kill have nothing to do with our existence, but it's due to a far greater power, well I disagree. I personally don't believe in God, but even if I did, I think to totally discount those who have died, and killed for our country shows your lack of a sense of reality and quite frankly, pretty pathetic. As far as all the other things you ranted about, we've been over all of those issues countless times on here, and I'm not in the mood to repeat myself at the moment. I'll just say, don't ever think you've got it all figured out, and what you believe is the absolute truth. That goes for all sides of every issue. Spewing rhetoric based on half truths and catch phrases seldom sways people to your side. At least not people who use common sense. Of course common sense seems to be a rare commodity these days. You might as well just post cartoons with simplistic messages that ignore logic and real issues just to try to make the opposition look bad. [right][post="135439"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right] [/quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/23.gif[/img] Oh my goodness. Lets see here....... You think I'm implying to be on "higher moral ground" by stating that I'd never sacrifice my family or loved ones for the sake of any war. From my vantage point, there is no implication. I think you are you seeing things that are not really there but that is just your perception not reality. Did I condemn the father of the slained soldier? No I did not. You say that ................................................................................ "Your arguments on most of the issues that I've seen you comment on seems to be mindless, over simplistic rhetoric common to young, idealistic, people who think the world should work the way they want it to work, rather than the way it does. 25 years ago, I might have written the same things." I say ....... "Threre's no fool like an old fool" I know you think I'm full of shit, and I came into this debate fully expecting that. I have no intentions of swaying the opinion of those who support this war. Nor am I trying to make them look bad. I simply am voicing my opinion and exercising my............. "freedom" [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/23.gif[/img] You claim I'm "Spewing rhetoric based on half truths and catch phrases seldom sways people to your side" Yet you haven't answered any question that I have posed. Your responses have been combative, belligerent and ambiguously disrespectful. Where is your logic and rational .....oh I forgot, you have posted it before and you are not in the mood to say it again. However, you are in the mood to take a "shit" on me. You say 25 years ago you were idealistic and I assume full of hope wanting to change the world. You say you may have written the same thing I did. I ask you ...... "What happened to you man?" Let me know what hardened you, what made you see things so differently? I want to know.....so that I can avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='sneaky' date='Aug 21 2005, 06:17 PM']I don't think so. The U.S. has a history of terrorizing their own citizens (slavery,Ku Klux Klan, racism, etc) so does Iraq ( gassing of Kurds, Saddam Hussain's torture camps, random bombings). The insurgents are determined to kill the enemy (Americans) and they are willing to kill innocents and lay down their own lives for their cause. The U.S. are determine the kill the enemy (the insurgents) and are willing to kill innocents and lay down their own lives for their cause. That is not a matter of opinion or "self righteous indignation", it is a fact.[/quote] first of all, how can people whose ancestors fucked up royally, or even racism in todays america be compared to torture camps and gassing of the kurds?? i understand that things aren't great racially right now, but it is a hell of alot better that they were 20-30 years ago, and i have a good feeling they will be a hell of alot better in 10-20 years from now... but my point is, how can you even logically compare all of these bad things, to saddam and torture chambers?? that makes absolutely no sense... and your talking aobut the american people in general b/c neither the KKK or much racism is in the gov't that i know about, besides robert byrd, but he isn't anymore ... disagreeing w/ someones policy, isn't the same thing being racist... even if its the wrong policy, if they believe it would help, then its not racism, it would be stupidity or misjudgement.. then you compare our bombings of innocents to their bombing of innocents... ours are calculated pretty well... i'm sure bj will break out the infamous 100,000 lives in baghdad conspiracy shit out, but oh well... we don't try to kill innocent people... we are killing people that are shooting at us... we also make mistakes... how can you compare this to them killing 3000 innocent people, or driving a car bomb into a crown of children and killing most of them to accidents... there are many other examples of this, and they can't be compared to as the same... apples and oranges... that isn't to say ours isn't bad, but its no where at all what they do... [quote]Based on the principal that taking innocent lives is wrong regardless of what the cause is, it is not being "self righteous", its just being a decsent human being. Not wanting to support a preemptive attack on a third world nation based on deceptive reasons with nothing to gain but a surplus of oil and a massive loss of human life is not "pacifism", its just logical rational thinking. As for as your assertion that the only reason I can express myself and that I even exist is possible because someone had to die or someone had to kill is complete and utter bullshit. The reason that I exist and you for that matter is credited to a far greater power. [/quote] so your trying to say that if our ancestors didn't fight against the british and win, we would be where we are now... there are many reasons for this war?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='sneaky' date='Aug 21 2005, 08:43 PM'] You say 25 years ago you were idealistic and I assume full of hope wanting to change the world. You say you may have written the same thing I did. I ask you ...... "What happened to you man?" Let me know what hardened you, what made you see things so differently? I want to know.....so that I can avoid it. [right][post="135465"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I grew up. If you aren't a liberal at age 20 you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative at age 40 you have no brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAYCAT Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Aug 21 2005, 03:53 AM'][color="green"][i][b]I wouldn't sacrifice any of my family for any war.... I myself would choose to die for certain principles... but I would never make that decision for someone else. As for this ongoing War in Iraq... I wouldn't send a stray cat over there... till Bush gives a clear plan of what the hell our objective is, outlines a clear plan of what we are supposed to be accomplishing, comes clean about our intentions, then provides the proper equipment.[/b][/i][/color] [img]http://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/leadingdemocracy080102.jpg[/img] [right][post="135258"][/post][/right][/quote] So what you are saying if you were in charge and another country was slaughtering it's people or someone else's you would not do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Aug 21 2005, 08:43 PM']first of all, how can people whose ancestors fucked up royally, or even racism in todays america be compared to torture camps and gassing of the kurds?? i understand that things aren't great racially right now, but it is a hell of alot better that they were 20-30 years ago, and i have a good feeling they will be a hell of alot better in 10-20 years from now... but my point is, how can you even logically compare all of these bad things, to saddam and torture chambers?? that makes absolutely no sense... and your talking aobut the american people in general b/c neither the KKK or much racism is in the gov't that i know about, besides robert byrd, but he isn't anymore  ... disagreeing w/ someones policy, isn't the same thing being racist... even if its the wrong policy, if they believe it would help, then its not racism, it would be stupidity or misjudgement.. then you compare our bombings of innocents to their bombing of innocents... ours are calculated pretty well... i'm sure bj will break out the infamous 100,000 lives in baghdad conspiracy shit out, but oh well... we don't try to kill innocent people... we are killing people that are shooting at us... we also make mistakes... how can you compare this to them killing 3000 innocent people, or driving a car bomb into a crown of children and killing most of them to accidents... there are many other examples of this, and they can't be compared to as the same... apples and oranges... that isn't to say ours isn't bad, but its no where at all what they do... so your trying to say that if our ancestors didn't fight against the british and win, we would be where we are now... there are many reasons for this war?? [right][post="135466"][/post][/right][/quote] I was not comparing the United States of "today" to Saddam Hussein's gassing of the Kurds and his torture camps. The context of which I was using was from a historcal comparative. From 1700 to 1964 theres no telling of how many blacks were murdered, lynched, raped, etc. in this country because of the slave trade, Jim Crow laws, the KKK, and hate other hate crimes. Mainly because most murders of blacks at this time were either "legal" or went uninvestigated. Therefore it wasnt much of a need to record all the fatalities, cause America at that time simply didn't give a rat's ass about it. I was comparing that from a historcal perspective to the treatment of Iraqi citizens by Saddam Hussein. Thats what I meant to do anyway. Im not trying to imply that the U.S. is killing innocent people on purpose. However, unfortunatley the U.S. by mistake have killed innocent Iraqi citizens. Islamic Jihad is killing innocent Iraqi citizens on purpose. Bottomline, there is a lot of innocent people getting killed. Thats the point I was trying to make. Obviously my words are being misunderstood by a few people here. I will try to be more clear in the future. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//18.gif[/img] And as far as "our ancestors" not fighting the British....we still would be speaking english. But worst af all we'd all be soccer fans not BENGAL fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAYCAT Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I don't like seeing our soldiers killed either. However they decided they wanted to go in and serve and for this I say thank you. Thank you for giving me the choice to go interstate without showing documents to pass. Thank you for allowing me to choose where to live,choose who I want to vote for. Thank you for allowing me to drive my pickup where I want. I could go on but I think you know where I am going with this. Next time you see a vet who was in wwII or Korea,Vietnam,and the last gulf war....say THANK YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengaljet Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Absolutely NOT. But I'll drive a hummer in Iraq with W's daughters,Hannity,Rush,Ann Coulter(blond bitch),Mark Levine,Rummie+some pro-war politicians up and down the most dangerous roads tomorrow. There is no question about loyalty to the soldier,but the competentcy of the "decision makers" that sends them in harms way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 21 2005, 11:21 PM']Absolutely NOT. But I'll drive a hummer in Iraq with W's daughters,Hannity,Rush,Ann Coulter(blond bitch),Mark Levine,Rummie+some pro-war politicians up and down the most dangerous roads tomorrow. There is no question about loyalty to the soldier,but the competentcy of the "decision makers" that sends them in harms way. [right][post="135510"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Most of the military is Republican. It's not like we're drafting Michael Moore lovers and forcing them to go fight. The majority of the people making these sacrifices support the people you just named, so you really don't have much of a point. For the record, even though I agree with them more than I disagree, I think Hannity, Rush and Ann Coulter are egotistical jerks. I actually think Mark Levine is funny though. This crap about W's daughters is the kind of thing that makes any valid points you might occasionally make fall on deaf ears in my opinion. BJ's constant ridiculous cartoons make any valid points he might make fall on deaf ears in my opinion. Homer's tendancy to talk over everyone's head make his valid points fall on deaf ears in my opinion. I have no doubt that BJ and Homer are intelligent people who have good reasons to oppose Bush, and when they cut through the crap and just talk about it using common language and common sense, I can appreciate their side of the argument. What I've seen of your posts puts you in the same category as what I said to sneaky from where I sit. Lose the meaningless rhetoric and talk about the real issues and alternatives and "the other side" might actually come to agree with you on some issues. Make outlandish allegations and throw "Republicans are evil" rhetoric around, and discussion becomes meaningless. I don't put much faith in opinions that are either far left or far right. Both sides are right about some things and both sides are full of shit about some things. Both sides need to step back and think about what makes the most sense, not what makes "their side" look better. Like everyone else, I'm just expressing my opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='Aug 21 2005, 08:46 PM']I grew up. If you aren't a liberal at age 20 you have no heart. If you aren't a conservative at age 40 you have no brain. [right][post="135467"][/post][/right][/quote] "Spewing rhetoric based on half truths and catch phrases seldom sways people to your side."---------------------------BengalBacker 08/21/05 Practice what you preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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