Republican, Democratic, other

[Guest steggyD]

I noticed in another thread that people were arguing about why they vote along certain party lines. So, I took it upon myself to find some websites that list all the party stances, and then I compared them, and shared my thoughts on how I feel about each of them. I seem to share views from both sides on some issues, or I completely disagree with both parties. I suppose that’s why I always vote third party. But anyways, I figured it’s a good way to get us to understand each other as a two party system, which I feel that the government likes, it keeps us separated.

Have fun, and keep it civil. Try not to argue with each other, but just share your views, and maybe we can understand each other better. Feel free to question however, since I kept my views short and to the point here. I have only done a few so far, since there are so many, and I have to get on to Halloween soon. I will expand on some of my views, if anyone wishes me to, and I hope some of the rest of you can also. Maybe it will open your mind to other ways of thinking. Maybe we can find a middle ground somewhere, and start a new party. Wouldn’t that be awesome? The Bengalican Party. I want to be VP. That way I can make cash and do nothing, unless the Pres dies.

Taken from this link…
[url="http://www.issues2000.org/Republican_Party.htm#Education"]http://www.issues2000.org/Republican_Party.htm#Education[/url]
[url="http://www.issues2000.org/Democratic_Party.htm"]http://www.issues2000.org/Democratic_Party.htm[/url]

Here’s the breakdown of party platforms, split up by party:

[quote]Republican Party on Abortion
· Promote adoption & abstinence, not abortion clinic referrals. (Sep 2004)
· Human Life Amendment to the Constitution. (Sep 2004)
· Ban abortion with Constitutional amendment. (Aug 2000)
· Alternatives like adoption, instead of punitive action. (Aug 2000)[/quote]
[quote]Democratic Party on Abortion
· Pursue embryonic stem cell research. (Jul 2004)
· Support right to choose even if mother cannot pay. (Jul 2004)
· Choice is a fundamental, constitutional right. (Aug 2000)[/quote]
Promotion of abstinence is not really such a bad thing. Maybe it can cut down on STD’s and the dumbass whores of today. At the same time, we should not forget condoms and other forms of safe sex, for when you really do have to have sex. It is a natural urge, after all, and eventually people will break down and have sex. And I’m all for having sex before marriage, because you need to know if your spouse will have the same taste/drive as you. Otherwise, divorce will be soon to follow.
Adoption is a good thing also, but I prefer that we begin to adopt from within our own country. Too many people adopting outside the country, why? We have many unwanted children here also.
I am not for a complete ban of abortion, but I am also not for abortion. I would highly recommend to anyone to not have an abortion, because I feel very strongly for the lives that they are destroying. But I also recognize that the way to correct the problem is through changing the way we look at things, and not forcing people into realization. Force rarely works, due to the human tendency to rebel. Embryonic stem cell research is alright by me also, now that I understand it better. However, I don’t think it should be federally funded. There are plenty of rich pharmaceutical companies out there who can fund such research.
[quote]Republican Party on Civil Rights
· The Patriot Act is used to track terrorist activity. (Sep 2004)
· Homosexuality is incompatible with military service. (Sep 2004)
· Support the advancement of women in the military. (Sep 2004)
· States should not recognize gay marriage from other states. (Sep 2004)
· Affirmative Access, without preferences or set-asides. (Sep 2004)
· Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
· Strong support for traditional definition of marriage. (Aug 2000)
· Let Boy Scouts exercise free speech (ok to ban gays). (Aug 2000)
· Women exempt from combat; “candid analysis” of military gays. (Aug 2000)[/quote]

[quote]Democratic Party on Civil Rights
· Racial and religious profiling is wrong. (Jul 2004)
· Keep marriage at state level; no federal gay marriage ban. (Jul 2004)
· Strengthen some parts of Patriot Act and change other parts. (Jul 2004)
· Support affirmative action to redress discrimination. (Jul 2004)
· Police should have zero tolerance of racial profiling. (Aug 2000)
· Pass hate crime legislation including gays. (Aug 2000)
· Democrats lead fight for ERA and equal employment. (Aug 2000)[/quote]
I am completely against the Patriot Act and other acts like it. I feel that it can be used to take away our civil rights, and will be used more in the future on our own people.
Rights of gays? Incompatible with military? I call bullshit on that, because there are many gays in the military, and they are compatible. Let it go, old farts, they’re not going to steal your son away from you. Marriage of gays? Why would they want to do such a thing? Marriage sucks. They don’t realize what they have going for them right now. But, since marriage is set up the way it is now, and a union is not recognized without a silly piece of paper that you have to pay for, then let them be married. They will more than likely stay in San Fran anyway. Just don’t move there, if you don’t like it. On the other hand, private organizations, I feel, should be allowed to keep homosexuals out if they feel they need to. Who are we to make you accept someone into your home.
Hate Crimes, I hate them, plain and simple. I figured we already have laws that make it illegal to harass, beat, murder or maim people. Why make up new laws to go along with that. Affirmative action, equal employment and shit like that. I hate that also, many reasons behind my hate for that, including unfair to the non-minority, making a minority second-guess himself (I know some of you won’t understand me here). I just don’t think we need such laws anymore. Why force people to recognize each other’s differences. I thought law saw no color.
[quote]Democratic Party on Corporations
· Transparency in corporate accounting. (Jul 2004)
· End corporate welfare as we know. (Jul 2004)
· Tax credits and investment support for small business. (Jul 2004)[/quote]
There is nothing listed on the site for Republicans, so I shall address the issue from what I believe they stand for. First of all, it seems that the Democrats want to support the small business while punishing the large business. Let’s be real about this. Yes, small business is good for the owner of the business, but what do they do for everyone else? Small businesses will hire fewer people and have a hard time keeping up with wages and benefits. Corporations can hire many, many people. I don’t like restrictions of corporations, because in the end, that’s what makes the money go around. The old days are over, welcome to a new age people. Mom and pop were spitting on your pizzas anyway.


Continuing on, from these pages still
[url="http://www.issues2000.org/Republican_Party.htm#Education"]http://www.issues2000.org/Republican_Party.htm#Education[/url]
[url="http://www.issues2000.org/Democratic_Party.htm"]http://www.issues2000.org/Democratic_Party.htm[/url]

[quote]Republican Party on Crime
· Support the death penalty. (Sep 2004)
· Best way to deter crime is to enforce existing laws. (Sep 2004)
· More victims rights and harsher penalties for certain crimes. (Aug 2000)
· Death penalty is an effective deterrent. (Aug 2000)[/quote]

[quote]Democratic Party on Crime
· Crack down on gangs and drugs. (Jul 2004)
· Fight crime with prevention, community police. (Aug 2000)
· Tougher punishments, including the death penalty. (Aug 2000)
· DNA testing & post-conviction reviews in death penalty cases. (Aug 2000)[/quote]
Well, I agree with the death penalty. With today’s technology, I’m sure we can be 100% sure that the person is guilty. Find cheaper and more cruel ways of the death penalty, and we can save a lot of money. Keeping someone in jail forever can costs tons of cash and overcrowd prisons. I actually like some of the Islamic laws here. Deter people from violent crimes, etc. And harsher penalties on true sex offenders, not some 19 year old who slept with a willing 15 year old, but something like a 39 year old who rapes a 9 year old, criminals like that. We need to really punish them severely, since the crime seems so widespread.
Otherwise, both parties seem to have good ideas there. Not much else to say about crime, it’s bad, don’t do it. Do it, get punished. We all agree on that I’m sure.
[quote]Republican Party on Drugs
· Jail time and school drug testing deters drug use. (Sep 2004)
· Clinton surrendered Drug War; cry out for drug-free schools. (Aug 2000)
· Aggressively pursue drug kingpins; include death penalty. (Aug 2000)[/quote]

[quote]Democratic Party on Drugs
· Bring to justice those bringing drugs to America. (Jul 2004)
· Drugs in prison: get clean to get out. (Aug 2000)
· Dry up drug demand via more enforcement plus more treatment. (Aug 2000)
· Fight drugs and economic hopelessness that fuels it. (Aug 2000)[/quote]

Well, they both seem to want to continue on with the war on drugs. I find this to be horrible. Drug wars cause high prices and high prices on drugs cause crime. Why is the crack feign trying to steal your car stereo? Because a small piece of crack costs him a pretty penny, especially since the buzz is so short, then he has to get more. I say less enforcement and more treatment. It’s all psychological. Another thing, legalize at the least marijuana. Shrooms also, since most religions were founded upon hallucinogenic drugs anyways. Drug wars also lead to deaths of beloved family members who are caught up innocently in the cross fire of drug lords fighting over territory. It’s ridiculous.

[Nati Ice]

without much detail or analysis, heres a quick platform based on some of the ideas off of the top of my head...
(yes, it is sad that some of these are even "issues")


[u]elections: [/u]reform national laws, eliminate electoral college, enforce current laws... every vote must count/ be counted

[u]health care, research, abortion, cloning: [/u]pursue embryonic and stem cell research, abortion becomes completely legal, but promote adoption (reform adoption processes and entire set-up) and sex-ed, as much as i would like them to... no government funds should support either embryo, stem cell research or abortion, parental consent needed for minors, give tax breaks to elderly in dire need of medication, reform medicare so that it benefits its intended targets more than the drug companys, etc., no human cloning

[u]evolution, god, and the 10 commandments: [/u]god should remain in pledge (no one should be able to force you into reciting this) for tradition only, same applys to 10 commandments, public schools should not receive funds if they promote religion, but should be permitted/ encouraged to teach unbiased philosophical classes that examine all religions, cults, and scientific findings

[u]edumacation: [/u]eliminate vouchers, nclb, and reassess standardized testing

[u]energy & environment:[/u] see democratic platform... indepedence, renewable, more efficient vehicles, more gov't $ towards r&d in these fields, stricter emissions controls, and preserve conservation/ public land

[u]civil rights:[/u] change patriot act (strengthen parts, remove others that impede on individuals rights), no national ban on gay marriages, if your state recognizes it... then the gov't recognizes it, eliminate affirmative-action (sorry, its wrong, period.)

[u]illegal drugs:[/u] strictly enforce those who bring them into the country, beef-up border patrol/ security

[u]censorship:[/u] no government censorship. period.

[u]military policy:[/u] drafts are legal out of rare necessity with a widely reformed process and new military policies implemented (too many ideas to list...)

[u]gun control:[/u] lawabiding citizens should not be restricted in the purchase of firearms, limits should apply only to felons and assault weapons, fix gun show loopholes, etc.

[u]immigration:[/u] if you are here illegally, you go back home... its quite simple really, increase funding for border patrols/ security, as well as $ for the deportation of illegal immigrants, borders and fences go up

[u]foreign policy:[/u] waaaaaaaay too much shit to list, invision a democrats ideology with more of an actual goal than whatever the hell bush is pushing/ trying to accomplish(?)

[u]budget, businesses, and nat'l economy:[/u] enforce "pay-as-you-go" laws and institute a stricter cap on government spending in order to cut the deficit, increase tax credits/ breaks for small businesses, end "corporate transparency" and "corporate welfare," raise minimum wage

[u]foreign trade:[/u] VASTLY increase penalties on companies moving overseas/ out of the country/ laying off americans in search of cheaper labor elsewhere, look for any penalties possible, reform tax breaks on this, HEAVY foreign steel taxes

[u]insert new idea here - booze, citizenship, pot, and firearms:[/u] the idea of "adulthood" needs to be reformed, i believe a possible way to do this would be to break it into 2 stages, the first one would allow priviledges such as a drivers license and the ability to purchase a non-automatic firearm (rifles only), pot (legalized and gov't regulated), and cigs to those who are at the age of 18, at this time they should also receive a gov't issued id that allows/ permits these rights (driving rights only applys to those who can pass the tests), at age 20 the child becomes an adult, and receives a new id allowing the ability to purchase booze and a handgun, as well as the right to vote/ run for office... the only catch is, unless a child registers for selective services (both men and women), they do not receive these rights and, as far is the gov't is concerned, remain in the transition stage (ages 18-20)


i realize that there are probably several gaps in my thinking but take it for what its worth, i didn't exactly spend a hell of a lot of time on this... basically these are my beliefs and ideas, and i think i've made it quite obvious why i don't identify myself with any party, much less the two major ones...

anyone else

[Jason]

The Issues I care about:

Military: Should be strong and well funded. As well as FBI and CIA. And 100% voluntary.

Taxes: I favor a flat tax, no more than 17% with the first $25,000 excluded.

Abortion: My moral belief is that abortion is murder and should be illegal. But politically it should be left to the states. It should also be treated like every other surgical procedure. Spousal notification, parental consent, informed consent.

Separation of church and state: This phrase does not appear anywhere in the constitution. The first ammendmant states that congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion or prevent the free expression thereof. It does not say that schools can't teach religion. It doen't even say states can't pass laws establishing a religion. In fact many states used to require that their representatives be Christians. The Bible was used in schools when the constitution was written and for 173 years following. If the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution thought it was unconstitutional, it would have stopped then, don't you think?

Gun control - is hitting what you aim at. Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to own any kind of gun he or she desires. Commit a violent crime and you lose your right to own a gun. You can appeal for reinstatement eventually. Commit a gun crime and you lose the right forever. Commit a gun crime and the minimum sentence is the max for the crime without a gun +20.

Vouchers - I fully support vouchers for anyone paying education taxes to be used at any school of the parents chosing. In addition, children of low income parents who do not pay education taxes would be able to apply for a voucher if the student qualifies.

Immigration - you are here legally or you are going home.

Drugs - laws should be strictly enforced as they are. I could see legalizing marijuanna as a prescription medication, but not under the patients control to grow.

[Jason]

Nati Ice,

re no government censorship at all, what about child pornography?

[whodey319]

i cannot stand people that dont understand gun control. The term assault weapon is so stupid it is inbelievable. I can assault you with a pellet gun and consider that an assault weapon. It was proven during the clinton adiministration when he did the assault ban that he had no idea what he was talking about. Someone showed him pictures of 5 guns and they asked him to choose the most powerful and dangerous weapons out and he was totally ass backwards because everything was based on look alone. I will conduct my own test here....Put in order the most powerful/dangerous weapon from most powerful to least. And for a bonus, one of these is full auto, see if you can pick it out.

1.[img]http://www.southernohiogun.com/images/akmt22stpop.jpg[/img]
2.[img]http://www.magnumresearch.com/products/DE_Tiger-Striped.jpg[/img]
3.[img]http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/102L.gif[/img]
4.[img]http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163504_thumb.jpg[/img]
5.[img]http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/gif/45whole.gif[/img]






















most dangerous
5-full auto .45 colt 1911 15 round clip
2-.50 cal desert eagle semi auto
4-.50 cal smith & wesson revolver
3-9mm (handgun ammo) carbine
1-.22 cal AK47 training rifle semi auto
least dangerous

looks can be deceiving. If a person that has never committed a crime has the right to protect themselves however they want. Felons have no right to shit.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Jason' post='179749' date='Oct 31 2005, 10:33 PM']The Issues I care about:

Military: Should be strong and well funded. As well as FBI and CIA. And 100% voluntary.

Taxes: I favor a flat tax, no more than 17% with the first $25,000 excluded.

Abortion: My moral belief is that abortion is murder and should be illegal. But politically it should be left to the states. It should also be treated like every other surgical procedure. Spousal notification, parental consent, informed consent.

Separation of church and state: This phrase does not appear anywhere in the constitution. The first ammendmant states that congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion or prevent the free expression thereof. It does not say that schools can't teach religion. It doen't even say states can't pass laws establishing a religion. In fact many states used to require that their representatives be Christians. The Bible was used in schools when the constitution was written and for 173 years following. If the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution thought it was unconstitutional, it would have stopped then, don't you think?

Gun control - is hitting what you aim at. Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to own any kind of gun he or she desires. Commit a violent crime and you lose your right to own a gun. You can appeal for reinstatement eventually. Commit a gun crime and you lose the right forever. Commit a gun crime and the minimum sentence is the max for the crime without a gun +20.

Vouchers - I fully support vouchers for anyone paying education taxes to be used at any school of the parents chosing. In addition, children of low income parents who do not pay education taxes would be able to apply for a voucher if the student qualifies.

Immigration - you are here legally or you are going home.

Drugs - laws should be strictly enforced as they are. I could see legalizing marijuanna as a prescription medication, but not under the patients control to grow.[/quote]

Im pretty much with you on every point.

[Kool Keith]

[quote name='whodey319' post='179768' date='Oct 31 2005, 11:03 PM']i cannot stand people that dont understand gun control. The term assault weapon is so stupid it is inbelievable. I can assault you with a pellet gun and consider that an assault weapon. It was proven during the clinton adiministration when he did the assault ban that he had no idea what he was talking about. Someone showed him pictures of 5 guns and they asked him to choose the most powerful and dangerous weapons out and he was totally ass backwards because everything was based on look alone. I will conduct my own test here....Put in order the most powerful/dangerous weapon from most powerful to least. And for a bonus, one of these is full auto, see if you can pick it out.

1.[img]http://www.southernohiogun.com/images/akmt22stpop.jpg[/img]
2.[img]http://www.magnumresearch.com/products/DE_Tiger-Striped.jpg[/img]
3.[img]http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/102L.gif[/img]
4.[img]http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/163504_thumb.jpg[/img]
5.[img]http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/gif/45whole.gif[/img]

















most dangerous
5-full auto .45 colt 1911 15 round clip
2-.50 cal desert eagle semi auto
4-.50 cal smith & wesson revolver
3-9mm (handgun ammo) carbine
1-.22 cal AK47 training rifle semi auto
least dangerous

looks can be deceiving. If a person that has never committed a crime has the right to protect themselves however they want. Felons have no right to shit.[/quote]



While I'm with you on being "anti bliss-ninny", very thankful that the Clinton AWB is now gone, you have some fact checking to do.

Colt doesn't make a 1911 that holds 15 rounds. I'm staring at a pair of them right now. Flush fit goverment mags hold 7, aftermarket flush fit mags hold 8. 10 round mags stick out a couple of inches below the grip, and are for range/target use only...they are way too obtuse to be of any combat/tacticle value.

AND!!!

There is NO such thing as a full auto 1911. I defy you to find one.

Also, the .50 AE round that is used in the DEagle is less "powerful" than the .50 round that is fired from the S&W revolver. Muzzle velocities are what I'm counting here, and that depends on what barrel length S&W you choose to fire.

AND...the AK that you posted - how are we supposed to know it's a dummy? That's either a 7.62 or 5.56 round, and that's by far and away the first weapon I'd reach for out of that pile if I had to pick just one to defend my home.

Plus, the 9mm round becomes much more powerful when fired out of a carbine. The longer barrel length gives it more time to accelerate from the pressure of the charge.

(I'm kind of an enthusiast)

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='Jason' post='179751' date='Oct 31 2005, 10:34 PM']Nati Ice,

re no government censorship at all, what about child pornography?[/quote]
I would assume that censorship of child pornography wouldn't count in this case. Doing such things with children would be illegal in the first place and would fall under other categories, such as child molestation. Therefore the fact that it is illegal, the pictures/video should not happen in the first place. Thus making child pornography nonexistant.

At least I would assume Nati would see it this way.

[Guest steggyD]

My take on foreign trade. I see someone else brought it up, so I shall attempt my take on this. I see no reason to punish corporations that wish to send their labor elsewhere. If anything, this should force us as people to become even more competitive in our work. If a company is forced to stay somewhere, then people will become complacent, request more money for their complacency, and wish to have the products at the lowest price possible. All while hoping that stocks rise. All of those things cannot happen at once, so now the corporations can leave the country, and make us realize that we are not the only ones in the world who can do the work. (shout out to all you lazy fuckers who sit around in a union, bullshitting instead of working your ass off)

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Jason' post='179749' date='Nov 1 2005, 01:03 AM']The Issues I care about:

Military: Should be strong and well funded. As well as FBI and CIA. And 100% voluntary.

Taxes: I favor a flat tax, no more than 17% with the first $25,000 excluded.

Abortion: My moral belief is that abortion is murder and should be illegal. But politically it should be left to the states. It should also be treated like every other surgical procedure. Spousal notification, parental consent, informed consent.

Separation of church and state: This phrase does not appear anywhere in the constitution. The first ammendmant states that congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion or prevent the free expression thereof. It does not say that schools can't teach religion. It doen't even say states can't pass laws establishing a religion. In fact many states used to require that their representatives be Christians. The Bible was used in schools when the constitution was written and for 173 years following. If the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution thought it was unconstitutional, it would have stopped then, don't you think?

Gun control - is hitting what you aim at. Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to own any kind of gun he or she desires. Commit a violent crime and you lose your right to own a gun. You can appeal for reinstatement eventually. Commit a gun crime and you lose the right forever. Commit a gun crime and the minimum sentence is the max for the crime without a gun +20.

Vouchers - I fully support vouchers for anyone paying education taxes to be used at any school of the parents chosing. In addition, children of low income parents who do not pay education taxes would be able to apply for a voucher if the student qualifies.

Immigration - you are here legally or you are going home.

Drugs - laws should be strictly enforced as they are. I could see legalizing marijuanna as a prescription medication, but not under the patients control to grow.[/quote]

Agree on almost everything, immigration requires more thought on my part. What if someone has been here 20 years illegaly but has not committed a single crime at all and has no intention to. (S)He works to feed their family back home, under your rules, they would be kicked out......I don't see it as black and white.

[Guest bengalrick]

flat tax as jason described would work wonders in this country... first of all, it would cut out double taxation, b/c instead of getting taxed on what you make and what you buy, you would only get taxed on what you buy... the 25,000 marker is also important to help get people out of that situation and sell the program in general... it would also allow us to tax the drug dealers, illegal activities in general, and illegal immigrants... unless they don't buy anythings, they would pay the same taxes as you and i... it would also cut out the rich paying less (percentage) taxes than i do... though, we would have to look at all the cpi's and others that work in the tax industry... but that pro's far out weigh the con's imo... flat tax is high on my list of what i'd like to see...

i have no definative take on stem cells... i believe that it is killing a human life myself, but the rewards could be absolutely tremendous... the only thing that stops me from endoring it fully would be the fact that it MIGHT do that, and nothing is true for sure yet... it is all specualtion, but i personally wouldn't fight against it b/c of the rewards...

gun control... there shouldn't be much control on it... i don't hunt and have only shot a gun about 10 times in my life, but it is our right to have a gun and defend ourselves.. after seeing what happened in N.O.'s and hearing the stories like the one that smoov posted a while back about the "thugs" that were actually protecting some of their family, friends, and those that couldn't protect themselves... that makes me even more sure of why we can't have a ban on guns...


patriot act... until i hear someone make a reasonable explaination of how this hurts our civil rights, i am all for it... nobody has had their rights violated (that i've heard of) and imo, it has thwarted a few attacks since 9/11... it is an extremely valuable act for our police force and financial services, and the fact that they might find out what book i read in 1998 is something i can deal w/...

i believe that gays shouldn't be able to get married b/c the consitution clearly states a marriage between a man and woman, BUT i firmly believe that a civil union would be extremely helpful for them and would be a do-able median for most of us, including myself...

heres an off the wall one... i think that we should legalize marijuana but continue to fight the drug war... the key is to cut off the drugs that have to be imported into our country... w/ marijuana, i could grow that in my basement, but good luck growing a poppy plant around here... my thing is, we should cut marijuana out of the "drug war" and then secure the borders better... then, if we do a good enough job, the market for coke will get too expensive and too risky to get it in the country... if we do a good enough job, the price for coke, heroin, etc. would sky rocket and it would be harder to get rid of... i'm saying that knowing that that could backfire tremendously b/c of the addiction that comes along w/ it, but it is something we have to do...

steggy brought this us, but any law that is based on a race is racist imo... at least, it doesn't help race relations in any matter... it had good intentions and has done a hell of a job of helping minorties get started, but what i'm talking about is racism in general... if a law said "there must be a certain percentage of caucations in any certain job" shit would hit the fan... the only difference w/ the true law is it says "blacks" instead... always think about the other side and what it will do to them, and this pisses many people off...

energy problems... we have to build more refineries, drill for our own oil, and use more nuclear energy... in the long term, cut out the compustable engine and find something that is more environmentally safe...

military... as strong as humanly possible


i'm sure there are more, but i'll stop there for now...

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='CP1' post='179948' date='Nov 1 2005, 09:47 AM'][quote name='Jason' post='179749' date='Nov 1 2005, 01:03 AM']
The Issues I care about:

Military: Should be strong and well funded. As well as FBI and CIA. And 100% voluntary.

Taxes: I favor a flat tax, no more than 17% with the first $25,000 excluded.

Abortion: My moral belief is that abortion is murder and should be illegal. But politically it should be left to the states. It should also be treated like every other surgical procedure. Spousal notification, parental consent, informed consent.

Separation of church and state: This phrase does not appear anywhere in the constitution. The first ammendmant states that congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion or prevent the free expression thereof. It does not say that schools can't teach religion. It doen't even say states can't pass laws establishing a religion. In fact many states used to require that their representatives be Christians. The Bible was used in schools when the constitution was written and for 173 years following. If the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution thought it was unconstitutional, it would have stopped then, don't you think?

Gun control - is hitting what you aim at. Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to own any kind of gun he or she desires. Commit a violent crime and you lose your right to own a gun. You can appeal for reinstatement eventually. Commit a gun crime and you lose the right forever. Commit a gun crime and the minimum sentence is the max for the crime without a gun +20.

Vouchers - I fully support vouchers for anyone paying education taxes to be used at any school of the parents chosing. In addition, children of low income parents who do not pay education taxes would be able to apply for a voucher if the student qualifies.

Immigration - you are here legally or you are going home.

Drugs - laws should be strictly enforced as they are. I could see legalizing marijuanna as a prescription medication, but not under the patients control to grow.[/quote]

Agree on almost everything, immigration requires more thought on my part. What if someone has been here 20 years illegaly but has not committed a single crime at all and has no intention to. (S)He works to feed their family back home, under your rules, they would be kicked out......I don't see it as black and white.
[/quote]


i thought we disagreed on most points (maybe i'm wrong)... but i also agree w/ almost everything that jason posted.... hmmmm, i'm confussed..... either way, i'm glad we are all agreeing for the most part

[Guest #22]

I agree with the 2000 green party on all of their stances. On things that they don't talk about, I follow a Democratic Socialist party line (Budget, Peace, etc.)


As far as I'm concerned nothing else really matters except for the environment. If we screw that up, everything else has severe problems as well

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='#22' post='179965' date='Nov 1 2005, 10:26 AM']I agree with the 2000 [b]green party[/b] on all of their stances. On things that they don't talk about, I follow a Democratic Socialist party line (Budget, Peace, etc.)


As far as I'm concerned nothing else really matters except for the environment. If we screw that up, everything else has severe problems as well[/quote]
Oh, you're one of those?

Just kiddin' with ya. Here's the one thing that I really like about the Green Party though...

[quote]Green Party on Drugs
More drug counseling & treatment. (Jun 2000)
Replace Drug War with treatment and alternative sentencing. (Jun 2000)[/quote]
I think we go about our war on drugs all wrong. If any of you have been in the lifestyle or lived closely to the lifestyle, amongst people on heavy drugs, you should realize that battling them on the streets does not really work. People need help, not a war. I understand some of the points here about supposedly securing the borders, but you know what, you can't stop it. It will always find its way in, people will do drugs. And even if you stop those drugs, you still have crystal meth, which is very dangerous itself.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='179959' date='Nov 1 2005, 12:39 PM'][quote name='CP1' post='179948' date='Nov 1 2005, 09:47 AM']
[quote name='Jason' post='179749' date='Nov 1 2005, 01:03 AM']
The Issues I care about:

Military: Should be strong and well funded. As well as FBI and CIA. And 100% voluntary.

Taxes: I favor a flat tax, no more than 17% with the first $25,000 excluded.

Abortion: My moral belief is that abortion is murder and should be illegal. But politically it should be left to the states. It should also be treated like every other surgical procedure. Spousal notification, parental consent, informed consent.

Separation of church and state: This phrase does not appear anywhere in the constitution. The first ammendmant states that congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion or prevent the free expression thereof. It does not say that schools can't teach religion. It doen't even say states can't pass laws establishing a religion. In fact many states used to require that their representatives be Christians. The Bible was used in schools when the constitution was written and for 173 years following. If the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution thought it was unconstitutional, it would have stopped then, don't you think?

Gun control - is hitting what you aim at. Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to own any kind of gun he or she desires. Commit a violent crime and you lose your right to own a gun. You can appeal for reinstatement eventually. Commit a gun crime and you lose the right forever. Commit a gun crime and the minimum sentence is the max for the crime without a gun +20.

Vouchers - I fully support vouchers for anyone paying education taxes to be used at any school of the parents chosing. In addition, children of low income parents who do not pay education taxes would be able to apply for a voucher if the student qualifies.

Immigration - you are here legally or you are going home.

Drugs - laws should be strictly enforced as they are. I could see legalizing marijuanna as a prescription medication, but not under the patients control to grow.[/quote]

Agree on almost everything, immigration requires more thought on my part. What if someone has been here 20 years illegaly but has not committed a single crime at all and has no intention to. (S)He works to feed their family back home, under your rules, they would be kicked out......I don't see it as black and white.
[/quote]


i thought we disagreed on most points (maybe i'm wrong)... but i also agree w/ almost everything that jason posted.... hmmmm, i'm confussed..... either way, i'm glad we are all agreeing for the most part
[/quote]

Rick, so did I

No, I think we are very similar in our beleifs except when it comes to Bush.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='steggyD' post='179967' date='Nov 1 2005, 01:06 PM'][quote name='#22' post='179965' date='Nov 1 2005, 10:26 AM']
I agree with the 2000 [b]green party[/b] on all of their stances. On things that they don't talk about, I follow a Democratic Socialist party line (Budget, Peace, etc.)


As far as I'm concerned nothing else really matters except for the environment. If we screw that up, everything else has severe problems as well[/quote]
Oh, you're one of those?

Just kiddin' with ya. Here's the one thing that I really like about the Green Party though...

[quote]Green Party on Drugs
More drug counseling & treatment. (Jun 2000)
Replace Drug War with treatment and alternative sentencing. (Jun 2000)[/quote]
I think we go about our war on drugs all wrong. If any of you have been in the lifestyle or lived closely to the lifestyle, amongst people on heavy drugs, you should realize that battling them on the streets does not really work. People need help, not a war. I understand some of the points here about supposedly securing the borders, but you know what, you can't stop it. It will always find its way in, people will do drugs. And even if you stop those drugs, you still have crystal meth, which is very dangerous itself.
[/quote]

Strongly agree regarding the drug war. We are fighting it the wrong way. Sometimes I think that the drug war justifies peoples' jobs so the incentive to "win" the war is not as great as it should be.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='CP1' post='179980' date='Nov 1 2005, 11:02 AM'][quote name='bengalrick' post='179959' date='Nov 1 2005, 12:39 PM']
[quote name='CP1' post='179948' date='Nov 1 2005, 09:47 AM']
[quote name='Jason' post='179749' date='Nov 1 2005, 01:03 AM']
The Issues I care about:

Military: Should be strong and well funded. As well as FBI and CIA. And 100% voluntary.

Taxes: I favor a flat tax, no more than 17% with the first $25,000 excluded.

Abortion: My moral belief is that abortion is murder and should be illegal. But politically it should be left to the states. It should also be treated like every other surgical procedure. Spousal notification, parental consent, informed consent.

Separation of church and state: This phrase does not appear anywhere in the constitution. The first ammendmant states that congress shall make no law regarding establishment of religion or prevent the free expression thereof. It does not say that schools can't teach religion. It doen't even say states can't pass laws establishing a religion. In fact many states used to require that their representatives be Christians. The Bible was used in schools when the constitution was written and for 173 years following. If the founding fathers, who wrote the constitution thought it was unconstitutional, it would have stopped then, don't you think?

Gun control - is hitting what you aim at. Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to own any kind of gun he or she desires. Commit a violent crime and you lose your right to own a gun. You can appeal for reinstatement eventually. Commit a gun crime and you lose the right forever. Commit a gun crime and the minimum sentence is the max for the crime without a gun +20.

Vouchers - I fully support vouchers for anyone paying education taxes to be used at any school of the parents chosing. In addition, children of low income parents who do not pay education taxes would be able to apply for a voucher if the student qualifies.

Immigration - you are here legally or you are going home.

Drugs - laws should be strictly enforced as they are. I could see legalizing marijuanna as a prescription medication, but not under the patients control to grow.[/quote]

Agree on almost everything, immigration requires more thought on my part. What if someone has been here 20 years illegaly but has not committed a single crime at all and has no intention to. (S)He works to feed their family back home, under your rules, they would be kicked out......I don't see it as black and white.
[/quote]


i thought we disagreed on most points (maybe i'm wrong)... but i also agree w/ almost everything that jason posted.... hmmmm, i'm confussed..... either way, i'm glad we are all agreeing for the most part
[/quote]

Rick, so did I

No, I think we are very similar in our beleifs except when it comes to Bush.
[/quote]

bush seems to be a deal breaker, huh?

[Jason]

[quote name='CP1']Agree on almost everything, immigration requires more thought on my part. [b]What if someone has been here 20 years illegaly but has not committed a single crime[/b] at all and has no intention to. (S)He works to feed their family back home, under your rules, they would be kicked out......I don't see it as black and white.[/quote]

But by being here illegally, they have already comitted a crime.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Jason' post='180031' date='Nov 1 2005, 12:44 PM'][quote name='CP1']Agree on almost everything, immigration requires more thought on my part. [b]What if someone has been here 20 years illegaly but has not committed a single crime[/b] at all and has no intention to. (S)He works to feed their family back home, under your rules, they would be kicked out......I don't see it as black and white.[/quote]

But by being here illegally, they have already comitted a crime.
[/quote]

thats where working permits would come in handy... imo, we should round them up (after we secure the borders w/ fences, manpower, and those flying drones) and then force them to get a working permit... i have absolutely no problem w/ immigrants, considering thats why i'm here, and i especially don't mind immigrants like the ones that cp1 mentioned, but i do want to know they are here, i want them to pay taxes, and i want the dipshit fucks out of our country...

[|Lucid|]

I am a staunch independent.

I have voted Dem, Rep...

I don;t even look at party when I vote.. I think rabid partisinism is destroying our country.. Sure it's a good thing to have the "loyal soldiers" on both sides.. But when 50% of America is stoutly on one side or the other regardles of the reality of the issue, it gets a little scary..

It seems so common these that people blindly follow thier particular side regardless of the wisdom of the policy (Dem or Rep).

I am a strict conservative when it comes to the Constitution and Fiscal matters but I am a social progressive (not liberal, there is a distinction that is not rhetoric that i will not get into here.)

Basically when it comes to Social issues I am all about personal freedoms, and lack of government regulation of our personal lives.

Oh,, and if the government (state or local) tried to establish a state sponsored religion, I would be more than happy to start a revolution and kill every fucking religous zealot I see... And afterwards round them up and make them live in a Muslim country so they can see what it feels like to have your view of god delegate you to second class citizenry! Until God himself comes down and lays out the COMPLETE AND UNDENIABLE TRUTH I'll be damned if my tax money is used to push someone elses religeous agenda.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='Lucid' post='180341' date='Nov 2 2005, 02:59 AM']I am a staunch independent.

I have voted Dem, Rep...

I don;t even look at party when I vote.. I think rabid partisinism is destroying our country.. Sure it's a good thing to have the "loyal soldiers" on both sides.. But when 50% of America is stoutly on one side or the other regardles of the reality of the issue, it gets a little scary..

It seems so common these that people blindly follow thier particular side regardless of the wisdom of the policy (Dem or Rep).[/quote]

Agreed.

One of the things that has kept me away from the Republican party is their stance on the environment. Basically do anything to it for profit. I have voted for the republican party in the past, on the local levels that have been stronger on open space and environmental issues that the democrats.

[whodey319]

[quote name='Kool Keith' post='179776' date='Oct 31 2005, 11:22 PM']While I'm with you on being "anti bliss-ninny", very thankful that the Clinton AWB is now gone, you have some fact checking to do.

Colt doesn't make a 1911 that holds 15 rounds. I'm staring at a pair of them right now. Flush fit goverment mags hold 7, aftermarket flush fit mags hold 8. 10 round mags stick out a couple of inches below the grip, and are for range/target use only...they are way too obtuse to be of any combat/tacticle value.

AND!!!

There is NO such thing as a full auto 1911. I defy you to find one.

Also, the .50 AE round that is used in the DEagle is less "powerful" than the .50 round that is fired from the S&W revolver. Muzzle velocities are what I'm counting here, and that depends on what barrel length S&W you choose to fire.

AND...the AK that you posted - how are we supposed to know it's a dummy? That's either a 7.62 or 5.56 round, and that's by far and away the first weapon I'd reach for out of that pile if I had to pick just one to defend my home.

Plus, the 9mm round becomes much more powerful when fired out of a carbine. The longer barrel length gives it more time to accelerate from the pressure of the charge.

(I'm kind of an enthusiast)[/quote]
full auto colt 1911 [url="http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/colt45.htm"]http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/colt45.htm[/url]
took me a while to find the specs on this gun but i finally found them searching on yahoo, but i cant find them now. It was 15 rounds full auto. (unless this webpage and the other one i found have a conspiracy going on). The other page had a picture of the clip that extended down below the gun.


The .50AE and .500 S&W is a tossup because the S&W is more powerful but i think it travels too fast and has no accuracy out of a small revolver like that, the .50AE is a little smaller but is highly accurate out of that gun.


And for the AK, the whole point is that its based on looks alone. people assume all kinds of stuff about guns just based on looks but that being just a .22 proves that people jump to conclusions


Im kind of an enthusiast.


On a side note, i just got 2 new guns

Springfield XD-40 .40 and a czeck CZ52 that shoots 7.62 x 25 cal rounds (lots of fun but tough to find ammo and if a range finds out your shooting it they will kick you out)