Greatest baseball player?

[Guest Master Shake]

???

[85fanwilkes]

I would have to say that Roger Clemons was my favorite pitcher of all time and I think that Pete Rose had to be one of the best fielders complimented by a great hitter of all time.

[Guest schotzee]

Christy Matewson
Roberto Clemente

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[img]http://homepages.ius.edu/RGRAVISS/bob_gibson.jpg[/img]


&


[img]http://www.garyt.com/work/art/Willie.jpg[/img]

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

the one who didnt get enough time : Satchel Paige


Hate him all u want and bitch or whatever but it's Barry Bonds and u can subtract his last 5 or watever years and id still believe its Bonds.

[dieselman44]

Nolan Ryan, 7 no-hitters. And Ken Griffey Jr.

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='dieselman44' post='270262' date='May 19 2006, 02:28 PM'][b]Nolan Ryan[/b], 7 no-hitters. And [b]Ken Griffey Jr.[/b][/quote]

insane

and

HOMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Claptonrocks]

players that totally dominated the league
Babe Ruth ...hit more homers a season than the other teams
Sandy Koufax..for 6 years he was the most awesome pithcer ever.

greatest ever.... the stats say Bonds. golden gloves, 50 stolen bases in a year, home run record for a season, batting titles, 7 MVP's...

[The Scales]

Gibson....



and uhhh....

you know who

[Guest CrazyIrishman5]

Babe Ruth at both! Everyone knows about the Babes hitting but when he was a pitcher, he had a career ERA of 2.28 and a records of 94-46.
[url="http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml"]http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml[/url]

[Guest whodey 85]

I put Paige for pitcher and Willie Mays for hitter, but it was tough between him and Josh Gibson.

[Jason]

I voted Bob Gibson and Willie Mays. But it is so hard to compare eras. The game has changed significantly since the 1920s. I break baseball up into 3 eras. 1880-something to 1920, 1920 to 1960 and 1960 to present.

The pre-1920 best pitcher would be Cy Young, player would be Ty Cobb.

Best player 1920 to 1960 would be Ruth easily.

Best hitter ever in any era is Ted Williams.

[Guest Master Shake]

[quote name='Jason' post='271329' date='May 22 2006, 06:57 AM']But it is so hard to compare eras. The game has changed significantly since the 1920s. I break baseball up into 3 eras. 1880-something to 1920, 1920 to 1960 and 1960 to present.[/quote]

I agree it can be tough to compare eras, but I find it much easier to do in a sport like baseball than in football or basketball. Since baseball became specialized so long ago and doesn't require quite the same level of athleticism, I feel the sports stars of the 20s and 30s would have a better shot in modern baseball than they would in the other major sports. Also, even though older statistics can be skewed, they're readable all the way back to the mid-1800s, so we have an amazing record of EVERYONE who played (with the obvious exception of the Negro league players).

[VonBlade]

Nolan Ryan. Easy.

Position player is harder. Most people go by batting. I'll go by defense. In which case it's the Wizard of Oz himself.

As for the Griffey=Homer thing. If you take into account his time away injured, and allow him his career average home runs, he'd be well into the 600s by now. So he has to be in any equation. You can't question the pitchers he's faced, the quality of D, whether he was juiced. He's the real-deal.

[dieselman44]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='273303' date='May 25 2006, 06:41 PM']Nolan Ryan. Easy.

Position player is harder. Most people go by batting. I'll go by defense. In which case it's the Wizard of Oz himself.

As for the Griffey=Homer thing. If you take into account his time away injured, and allow him his career average home runs, he'd be well into the 600s by now. So he has to be in any equation. You can't question the pitchers he's faced, the quality of D, whether he was juiced. He's the real-deal.[/quote]


I agree with you man. And frankly im confused as to why i got called insane for picking a pitcher who threw 7 no-hitters and all-time strikeout leader.

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='dieselman44' post='273338' date='May 25 2006, 07:38 PM']I agree with you man. And frankly im confused as to why i got called insane for picking a pitcher who threw 7 no-hitters and all-time strikeout leader.[/quote]

pretty high ERA for being the best ever. He had quite a few bad outings too. He won by overpowing and he got killed alot too. He was great, but i dont think he was best ever.

[Guest Master Shake]

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273419' date='May 25 2006, 11:22 PM']pretty high ERA for being the best ever. He had quite a few bad outings too. He won by overpowing and he got killed alot too. He was great, but i dont think he was best ever.[/quote]

yes + tons of BBs... he was the greatest 40+ pitcher ever, tho. Ironically, he became more effective when he was so old because he stopped trying to throw 101 mph gas to every hitter and actually took a tiny bit off, but had much better control and still couldn't be hit at 97. If he had realized this 20 years earlier maybe he would now be seen as the best, and wouldn't have walked so many, even if he didn't break all those K records, as as result.

[dieselman44]

Do some of you guys pull comments out your ass to try to sound like you might know something?



Thurman, i decided to get some numbers for you:
you said Nolan Ryan had a high ERA well he had a career ERA of 3.19 over 27 yrs in the majors, i might add 13 of those were with an AL team.


324W, including 222CG, with 66 shutouts
So if he got knocked around a lot i dont see how he could have 222 CG?


MasterShake i do agree with youpretty much all of the stuff you said. And he did seem to be alittle wild with the walks and stuff. I decided to look up his career WHIP and it is 1.24, which i guess is pretty average and possiblly one cateogry where Nolan could have improved on.



All im trying to say here is dont call someones pick of the best pitcher of alltime INSANE when you obviously dont know the stats of that pitcher. Everyone here could make a solid case for their pick and why they choose them. For future reference look up some stats and educate yourself before you try to insult someone elses selection.

[sexybengal]

the best player ever is pete rose

[Guest bengalrick]

i'll have to go w/ the boring answer of the babe... hard to beat someone that quadrupled the previous homerun record, and the record stood for 50 or so years later... and all this considering his original position was pitching, which he did very well at that too...

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='dieselman44' post='273655' date='May 26 2006, 01:16 PM']Do some of you guys pull comments out your ass to try to sound like you might know something?
Thurman, i decided to get some numbers for you:
you said Nolan Ryan had a high ERA well he had a career ERA of 3.19 over 27 yrs in the majors, i might add 13 of those were with an AL team.
324W, including 222CG, with 66 shutouts
So if he got knocked around a lot i dont see how he could have 222 CG?
MasterShake i do agree with youpretty much all of the stuff you said. And he did seem to be alittle wild with the walks and stuff. I decided to look up his career WHIP and it is 1.24, which i guess is pretty average and possiblly one cateogry where Nolan could have improved on.
All im trying to say here is dont call someones pick of the best pitcher of alltime INSANE when you obviously dont know the stats of that pitcher. Everyone here could make a solid case for their pick and why they choose them. For future reference look up some stats and educate yourself before you try to insult someone elses selection.[/quote]

ya i know pretty much everything about Nolan Ryan because I had to do a 15 page paper on him last year for school. And if u would read what i said a 3.19 ERA is pretty high for the best pitcher ever. He continually led the league in walks every season and never led the league in wins or CGs and only led the league in ERA twice.


Nolan Ryan ERA = 3.19

324 wins 292 losses

Greg Maddux ERA = 3.01 (in a more hitters favored era)

318 wins 189 losses

1.132 WHIP

not to mention 15 gold gloves and 4 cy youngs and dominant in the postseason.


Then u have Roger Clemens (who is a better 40+ year old pitcher than Nolan Ryan) and Tom Seaver who are both better than Ryan. Clemens pitched all but 2 years in the AL and has a 3.12 ERA which will go down when he pitches this year. He also has 341 wins and only 172 losses. 1.173 WHIP.


You can argue like 50 pitchers for the best ever, but Clemens and Maddux (and there is more) put up better #'s than Ryan in a time that was more of a hitters ERA. THe most interesting thing is how each pitcher did it too. Clemens and Ryan was more on power and Maddux just had deadly location and tricked the hitter constantly (which isnt that successful in the majors). That is why i think Maddux is one of the best ever cuz he didnt have the greatest stuff, but still dominated everyone.

Like u said, u can argue just about anyone with some kind of stat.

[MacD BengalFan]

Johnny Vander Meer. Despite he average numbers for a career, he established a record that no one will ever break. Not even Nolan Ryan came close.

[Guest Master Shake]

[quote name='MacD BengalFan' post='273863' date='May 26 2006, 07:56 PM']Johnny Vander Meer. Despite he average numbers for a career, he established a record that no one will ever break. Not even Nolan Ryan came close.[/quote]

This is analagous to saying Mark Whiten is the greatest hitter ever because he's the only guy to have 4 HRs and 12 RBIs in a game.

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='MacD BengalFan' post='273863' date='May 26 2006, 07:56 PM']Johnny Vander Meer. Despite he average numbers for a career, he established a record that no one will ever break. Not even Nolan Ryan came close.[/quote]

someone will throw back to back no hitters and tie him.




Fernando Tatis is the best hitter ever....2 grand slams in 1 inning

[Guest Master Shake]

Seriously, tho, the best player is between Ruth and Bonds... I can see either side.

The best pitcher is, imo, between Lefty Grove and Clemens... neither look as impressive as some of the old timers, but both pitched in hitters eras and maintained great stats when few other pitchers could.

I'd say, for hitters:
1. Ruth
2. Bonds
3. Mays

4. Mantle
5. Wagner
6. Cobb
7. Aaron
8. Williams
(In 10 years ARod and Pujols will both be in this group)

for pitchers:

1. Clemens
2. Grove
3. Walter Johnson

4. Mathewson
5. Seaver
6. Young
7. Spahn
8. Pedro
9. Koufax
Ryan would not be in my top 10