Real Jews reject Israel and Zionism ...

[Lawman]

[quote]If you actually knew anything about the history of Communism in general, and Rosa Luxemburg in particular, you would know why your citation and efforts serve to feed the conspiracies, both old and new, making you, of course, by occupation as well as by choice, a lapdog of those who invented, contained, and in many instances controlled that which you claim to be against. You claim to be against collectivism, but you really don't know much about it, do you? Be honest.[/quote]

Collectivism:

The concept of value requires a purpose and a beneficiary. It requires answers to the questions "Value to whom?" and "Value for what?". Collectivism is an answer to the first question. It says value to the collective, whether that's society, your tribe, your family, your nation, your race, your sex, or any other group or category you "belong" to. The standard of good is that which benefits the group.

At the root of this ethical standard is the belief that a collective is more than just individuals interacting together. It is the belief that the group is an entity itself, more important than the sum of the individuals. The individuals become secondary to the collective. Their well-being and even their lives are ignored if the group has something to gain. Individuals are not recognized. They are merely a tool for the group.

[i]Ask not what your country can do for you: Ask what you can do for your country.[/i]
John F. Kennedy

Homer,

I understand that collectivism could be useful in a small scale settings of various groups/tribes in isolated area's of the world, but I am speaking on the subject of industrialized nations.

So, present to you and other's the testimony of rev. Richard Wurmbrand, who spent 14 years in Communist
prisons and author of "Tortured for Christ".

[url="http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/communist-senate-hearing-wurmbrand.htm"]http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/c...g-wurmbrand.htm[/url]

COMMUNIST EXPLOITATION OF RELIGION

TESTIMONY OF REV. RICHARD WURMBRAND
HEARING Before the Subcommittee to Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security Act

and Other Internal Security Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, D.C.

UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION

Friday, May 6, 1966


Excerpts:

Senator Dodd: [i]Would it be accurate to deduce that the embassy officials of the several countries must have heard it too? [/i]

Reverend Wurmbrand: They don't wish to be troubled in their quietness. They close their eyes before this menace. I have met men who simply close their eyes when I told them about these things. They know that they are true. But they have a certain policy of friendly relationship with the communist countries, and they are very honest men, but they are duped exactly as we were duped in Rumania.

Wherever the communists came in the beginning, they said the same thing which I read here in newspapers and in periodicals. "You know Stalin's communism has been very bad, but Yugoslavian communism or another kind of communism, this is very good."

A little lion in its first days you can play with him just like with a puppy. [u]When he becomes great, only then he is a lion. Yugoslavian communism is this little communism. And American communism a very little one and English communism is a very little one. When they grow, when they can do whatever they will to do, then only we can see them. [/u]

With us, in the beginning, we also had a very nice communism. I have seen in Rumanian Communist demonstrations signs with the slogan, "God save the King." [u]I have seen the communist Secretaries of State making great crosses, showing themselves as being on the side of religion and making compliments to religion and bowing to religion and saying they are Democrats. In the beginning, they have put in prison party members who said that the agriculture must be collectivized. And they have gone together with the bourgeois party, with the Liberal Party of Tatorescu and with other Democrats[/u].

I have seen in the [u]West Social Democrats collaborate with them[/u] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img] . In Rumania, I have seen dying Social Democrats in the same cell with me; they died. Communists in Rumania, too, were nice until they had the whole power in hand. When they had the whole power in hand, they have done things exactly as in Russia, and so they will do everywhere. [b]There is no difference[/b].

I stopped in Newark, and in Philadelphia, a demonstration against the war in Vietnam. I had not this clerical suit on. I stopped the demonstrators and I undressed myself to the belt. Afterwards I heard that it is illegal here in the States, and that I could have gone to prison for this. I undressed myself.

Senator Dodd: It would have been all right on the bathing beach.

Reverend Wurmbrand: Yes; it was not on the beach. And I told them, "This have Communists done to me. Do you think that American Christians should fight against communism?" So they surrounded me and asked me, "Why have Communists done to you this?" I said to them, "Suppose that I am a murdered. Do you agree that a murderer should be tortured? Has Oswald been tortured? Has Ruby been tortured with you?" They all said, "No; murderers have not been tortured." I continued: "Then know that I have not be charged with murder. I am a clergyman." They stopped the demonstration. In Philadelphia there was again such a demonstration.

I am not a man of politics. I can't speak for the war of Vietnam or against the war in Vietnam. I speak this general principle that Christians must be on the side of righteousness.. They must never be on the side of the inquisitors of Christians. They must be on the side of the victims of the inquisitors, they must be on the side of the Christians.

In Philadelphia there was a great meeting. A pastor with clerical suit, a Presbyterian pastor, delivered a speech in which he praised Communists and said that Communists are all right and it is stupid to fight against them. I have learned something from the Communists. In a minute - after - the pastor was no more in the pulpit, I was in the pulpit. I said:

"Now I will speak about communism. What do you know about communism? And I will show you my credentials, how I have studied communism."

I undressed myself to the belt. I did not know that all these bad reporters are there and took pictures. And I showed them my body. "That is what Communists do to Christians, and you, Pastor, why don't you make demonstrations, if you are a Christian and if you have youth in you and vigor, why don't you demonstrate before the Soviet and Rumanian Embassies and the other embassies against torturing Christians?" And then the public, which has been there booed him and shouted to him "Judas."

[b]Religion is corrupted from within. Religion has been widely used and is still as the tools of communist politics. The priests everywhere had to propagate the collectivization of agriculture and everywhere when communists have something important to do, knowing the influence of religion, priests and pastors are put to preach these things. [/b]

Reverend Wurmbrand: Only in the free world. They have at midnight, which corresponds to I don't know what hour here in the United States, it is noon or I don't know what, they have religious services which are jammed in Rumania, but they are emitted from Rumania. We have no religious services on the broadcasts. These are broadcast religious services only that the Americans should know how fine the Communists are and that they have religious services.

In a little townlet of ours there is a little Baptist church with only 22 members. The pastor of that church told me that he is the informer of the secret police and that he knows three members of his church who give information against him. So it was in the church in which I was. The servant of the church had the order to inform who comes to me. I had no salary. So, usually men who came to me brought a little parcel with food and clothes and so on. The servant had to spy out who comes with parcels. In the smallest churches you have five or six who have to spy out what the others do. [b]One neighbor spies the other. Children spy on their father and so on. It is without end so nobody dares to do a thing.[/b]

[b]Communists are not only anti-Christian. They are anti everything. They are anti their own comrades. [/b]

I have been in prison. I have been there with Lucretiu Patrascanu, the great Communist leader, who has brought communism to power in our country. He was put in prison and tortured until he became mad.

My wife has been in prison with Gheorghe Cristescu. Everybody in Rumania knows the founder of communism in Rumania, who has been in prison for communism under the borgeois. He has been with my wife together, and he said to my wife, "Forty years ago I fought for the 8-hour labor day and now my Communist Party has come to power and I have to work 14 hours a day."

They are anti absolutely everything. It is not only anti-Christian.

"[b]In Russia, you have had as Secretary of State for Internal Affairs, Yagoda. Yagoda has killed thousands of people as counterrevolutionaries. Then you have discovered who has been the counterrevolutionary: Yagoda has been. Yagoda has been shot as counterrevolutionary.[/b]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='289714' date='Jul 2 2006, 05:34 AM']Considering I didn't cite any sources, I'm just wondering:

Have you invaded What-the-Fuckistan? [/quote]

I meant in general, not in direct reference to your last post. You were stating that 9/11 was a conspiracy, and I am assuming you formed that opinion based on your information gathering from sources that you deem trustworthy.
That's kinda sorta what I meant....

[Lawman]

Collectivism is a form of anthropomorphism. It attempts to see a group of individuals as having a single identity similar to a person. The collective is [u]claimed[/u] to have ideas, and can think. It has purpose, and it acts to achieve goals. It even has a personality, called culture. It [u]claims[/u] to have moral rules the collective should follow. It claims to have collective rights, as well.

Since the collective is actually just individuals interacting, the collectivists have to change their views of individuals. They morally evaluate people according to the results of the collective. If the collective manages to accomplish something great like land on the moon, every individual is given equal credit. If a nation goes to war, everyone is to blame. And if an individual refuses to acknowledge the superiority of his collective, [u]than he is a traitor and is eliminated[/u]. This is the result of collectivism.

[b]Collectivism demands that the group be more important than the individual[/b]. It requires the individual to sacrifice himself for the alleged good of the group. Although different from altruism, collectivism complements it well. Altruism demands sacrifice for others, collectivism demands sacrifice for the group. Collectivism leads to altruism.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='289719' date='Jul 2 2006, 08:33 AM']
I meant in general, not in direct reference to your last post. You were stating that 9/11 was a conspiracy, and I am assuming you formed that opinion based on your information gathering from sources that you deem trustworthy.
That's kinda sorta what I meant....[/quote]

Okay. Wasn't sure what you were referencing.

Well, sure, 9-11 was a conspiracy. Everyone acknowledges that. I think the problem here is that the word itself is getting in the way. That was one of the reasons for my long post.

It was an intelligence operation. [i]It had to be, to coordinate the chain of events.[/i] Now, as to who the ultimate authors of the operation are, well that's the debate. That's why I suggested that getting to know something about intelligence work and tradecraft is helpful; that way, when folks go down the rabbit hole, they don't get completely discombobulated. As some have and do. I really haven't expressed my opinion beyond this assertion, in terms of authorship. That's because I don't know. I have some suspicions regarding which factions benefit from the event and which factions are harmed, but I wouldn't take that into court.

As I also said, what is of most interest to me is what came after 9-11. I'm more interested in stopping the craziness which has resulted from the event than I am in the authorship of the event itself. I'm just a plain ole citizen, I can only do so much. It seems to me that I can be more effective trying to influence what I can influence, even marginally. I've been around enough politicians to know that the few moments of their precious time I manage to get from time to time ought not be wasted rambling on about a modern day equivalent into who killed JFK. Besides, many politicians aren't entirely stupid, they know how this sort of thing works in general.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Lawman' post='289720' date='Jul 2 2006, 08:34 AM']Collectivism is a form of anthropomorphism. It attempts to see a group of individuals as having a single identity similar to a person. The collective is [u]claimed[/u] to have ideas, and can think. It has purpose, and it acts to achieve goals. It even has a personality, called culture. It [u]claims[/u] to have moral rules the collective should follow. It claims to have collective rights, as well.

Since the collective is actually just individuals interacting, the collectivists have to change their views of individuals. They morally evaluate people according to the results of the collective. If the collective manages to accomplish something great like land on the moon, every individual is given equal credit. If a nation goes to war, everyone is to blame. And if an individual refuses to acknowledge the superiority of his collective, [u]than he is a traitor and is eliminated[/u]. This is the result of collectivism.

[b]Collectivism demands that the group be more important than the individual[/b]. It requires the individual to sacrifice himself for the alleged good of the group. Although different from altruism, collectivism complements it well. Altruism demands sacrifice for others, collectivism demands sacrifice for the group. Collectivism leads to altruism.[/quote]

Would I be within my rights to consider your post to be [url="http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Evil_Collectivism.html"]plagiarism[/url] and thus, as a strong indicator that you haven't got a clue?

[Lawman]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='289755' date='Jul 2 2006, 11:00 AM']Would I be within my rights to consider your post to be [url="http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Evil_Collectivism.html"]plagiarism[/url] and thus, as a strong indicator that you haven't got a clue?[/quote]

Please enlighten us and address our ignorance of Collectivism, oh all-knowing Homer.

[Lawman]

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: col·lec·tiv·ism
Pronunciation: k&-'lek-ti-"vi-z&m
Function: noun
: a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control
- col·lec·tiv·ist /-vist/ adjective or noun
- col·lec·tiv·is·tic /-"lek-ti-'vis-tik/ adjective
- col·lec·tiv·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Main Entry: com·mu·nism
Pronunciation: 'käm-y&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French communisme, from commun common
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the U.S.S.R. b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively

Sorry, but my ignorance does not allow me to distinguish the difference, although I am told by sociology professors there is.

[url="http://www.sociologyprofessor.com/socialtheories/collectivism.php"]http://www.sociologyprofessor.com/socialth...ollectivism.php[/url]

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Lawman' post='289783' date='Jul 2 2006, 12:47 PM']Please enlighten us and address our ignorance of Collectivism, oh all-knowing Homer.[/quote]

Pretty much the shameless sort of response I expected. The problem here isn't a matter of intellect. The pursuit of knowledge is a [i]process[/i]; it's a big old river of the sort described by Heraclitus. That different individuals navigate that river with differing levels of expertise, is just a fact of life, and in this context, not very interesting. I'm not responsible for your resentment; I just happened to be the one who caught you with your fingers in the cookie jar.

The problem is a question of morality. So, in that context, I'll express my opinion.

It's my opinion that you are precisely the kind of person that would approve of most of the troubling policies that are either already in effect today, or in the process of becoming effective. There is not much doubt in my mind that a person who denies the Holocaust (quibble as you may about your intent for doing so) would have no problem with torturing folks like me. I don't think it would bother you much if a fellow like Abu, for example, got tossed into a camp. Furthermore, I also think that you would find it easy to "justify" such actions, if they came to pass, on the basis of your nutty, sanctimonious version of fundamentalist Christianity. You would think that such actions are "right" and "proper"--"moral" acts of goodness, if you will.

"Jesus tells me, this I know, Islamo-fascists have to go." In my opinion, your upside-down world is a very dangerous one, and you are a very dangerous person. Not because of your level of intellect, but because of your lack of any real and profound sense of morality.

[TheBZ]

Wow...Starting to heat up here a l'il bit.

I never thought I'd see the day when you would so willingly wade into the fire, Homer...I like it, because while I believed you ARE frustrated...It makes me feel better to see it break through a bit.

[b]For Bung[/b]...I'm not sure what has clicked, but I think I've read a couple posts of yours lately that are, in a sideways fashion, attacking education as the problem (or a problem).

Now, perhaps it is a response to the styles/stance of BJ and Homer...I don't know. But I don't think that I can accept that the only result of education is to validate the opinion that one may WANT to have.

I wonder sometimes if sometimes the result of education (whether institutional or personal) is not being able to have an opinion at all. Because the more levels of grey that you see, and the more forces, factions, movements and beliefs that you stack up, going through them is like Jenga. You're afraid if you start pulling them all apart, the whole thing will fall down...And you'll have nothing to hang your hat on at all.

[b]For Lawman[/b]...I'm just not sure that this thread called for that extended letter on communism vs. religion. I don't understand how we got to that place, and I don't think anyone here was pushing a communist solution.

Clearly...You believe that communists persecuted Christians...And still have an agenda against Christians. It might be true, but I don't see where that comes into play here.

[b]For myself...[/b]I'm not sure I have anything new to add, other than it doesn't matter to me if the ideology would be Zionism, Islam, Christianity, Capitalism, nationalism and so on...I think it is pretty obvious when the more powerful force tries to consolidate their holdings (physical and economic), and use that force to push a minority around.

Perhaps it could apply to communism vs. christianity...But the affront is the result of the consolidation and abuse of power and authority...It's not about the specifics, as much as the type of interaction that is occurring.

I think this is what Israel is doing with the Palestinians, and other countries are either silent partners or completely indifferent. Both reactions disturb me.

You certainly don't have to be a collectivist or communist to believe that the sovereignty rights and human rights of people are abused. There are just some political actions that are obviously unfair, and they usually occur when someone wants to go into an area with an agenda...Be it land, oil, economic opportunity, or whatever.

BZ

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][color="#CC0000"][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img] More Jews that don't recognize Israhell [/color] [/b]



[size=3][u][quote][b]'Iran's Jews don't recognize Israel'[/b]
Jerusalem post
6/2/06[/u][/size]


Iran's Jews do not recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel, a senior Iranian Jewish leader reportedly declared on Sunday.

According to the Islamic Republic News Agency, the Iranian state's official news organ, Haroun Yashai, head of the Committee of Teherani Jews, made the statement to the Russian daily Gazetta.

The report quoted Yashai as saying that "We [Jews] are citizens of the Islamic Republic of Iran." Yashai ruled out allegations that religious minorities were deprived of their rights in Iran.

"Foreign journalists usually think that our comments on the good condition of religious minorities in Iran are false" and "expressed on the call and under pressure of Iranian officials." According to the report, Yashai said this belief was "wrong," and added that Jews were free to react to some government policies and even to write to government officials on the issues.

In addition, Yashai said, Jews were free to perform their religious duties and say their prayers in the "Jewish language."

Yashai added that 23 of Iran's 40 synagogues were active, and said that Jews had been observing their customs and had been living in Iran for 2,500 years, since Cyrus the Great ruled the country, and that today's Jewish population - quoted at 25,000 in the IRNA report - lived mostly in Teheran, Shiraz, and Isfahan.[/quote]


[url="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885901123&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull"]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull[/url]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center]


[img]http://gr.altermedia.info/images/Zionism.jpg[/img][/center]

[Guest steggyD]

BJ, you do realize though, that there are already Jews from the Middle East, living in Israel, even former Iraqi Jews. They're not all these Kazars that you speak of.

[Lawman]

[quote]For Lawman...I'm just not sure that this thread called for that extended letter on communism vs. religion. I don't understand how we got to that place, and I don't think anyone here was pushing a communist solution.[/quote]

BZ,

I merely provided a disclaimer; which Homer subsequently attacked my understanding on the subject of Collectivism.

[quote]Disclaimer: My fight is with any form of collectivism. Not any particular religous/ethnicitygroup[/quote]

But, there is relevance, look at the nation of Israel. You have the Orthodox (True Torah; First five books of the Bible written by Moses/Pentauch/Laws) Jews and the Zionist controlled government.

For years I was pro-Israel and blindly excused their actions from a religous standpoint (god must want this to be). I was ignorant to the fact that not all Jews are Orthodox.

It was not until got back into studying my scriptures(around 9-10 months ago) coupled with readings from the True Torah's that I started to realize some things.
[url="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/history.cfm"]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/history.cfm[/url]

The purpose of the Jew is to bear witness to the existence of G-d, through his adherence to the Torah. The Al-mighty granted the Jews the land of Israel as the particular setting which would serve as the most conducive atmosphere to their performance of their duties to G-d.

The Jews in ancient times were banished from the land of Israel because they had failed to fulfill their obligations to the Al-mighty. Every Jew acknowledges this in his prayers (Umipnei Chatoeinu Golinu Meiartzeinu). [u]They accepted the penalty of exile and were at that time expressed sworn by the Al-mighty not to accelerate their redemption on their own[/u], [b]and especially not to rebel against the nations under whose rule they were found[/b] (Germany) . To the contrary, every Jew is commanded to pray for the peace and well being of the government of which he is the subject.

Through all the years of exile, pious Jews as individuals were attracted to reside in the Holy Land because of its innate holy character and the opportunity it offered for the observance of various precepts bound in the land. Jews as a whole continue to pray that the Al-mighty return his Divine presence to the Land of Israel, [u]by the coming of the Messiah, who will build His Temple[/u], from whence will emanate Divine Wisdom and ultimate spiritual fulfillment of the [u]entire human race[/u]. for christian-beliefs, this will be Jesus Christ.

During the period of the British Mandate, the [b]Balfour Declaration[/b], which recognized the eventual possibility of founding a Jewish national homeland, in Palestine, was affirmed to be the British government. The Jewish Agency, who then was the Chief representative of Zionist interests in the Holy Land, was entrusted with the issuance of visas to the Holy Land, thus resulting in an increased Zionist immigration from various parts of the world, [u]which ultimately succeeded in superseding in numbers, the veteran Orthodox dwellers. [/u]

Orthodox Jewry all over the world and the Orthodox Community in the Holy Land in particular, immediately sensed in this stage of Zionist success, the threat of grave danger for the religious future of Jews. The Arab inhabitants began to exhibit open hostility to their Jewish neighbors. [b]The British government failed to distinguish between the Orthodox community, who for generations in habited the Holy Land, and the newly arrived Zionist immigrants.[/b]


Such was the case until November 1948, when the United Nations finally sanctioned the establishment of a Zionist State. We do not doubt that their success in finally realizing their goal was due in great measure to [b]their having misled the world into viewing the Zionist cause as the Jewish cause[/b]. [i]The formation of the Zionist state resulted in the automatic deprivation of the autonomy heretofore possessed by the Orthodox inhabitants of the Holy Land. [/i]

As you can see, I agree with BJ's position, but I cannot prescribe to his assertion for the destruction of Israel. In order for one side to win-the other must lose. I am looking for a win-win and sadly their is none to be found......................................................... for now. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//angel.gif[/img]

fyi, when BJ says " man cursing a Fig Tree" in his diatribes about not believing that Jesus existed; this gesture is symbolic: the Fig tree is a representation of Israel and Jewish leadership(during his time, but could be construed as a forewarning).

Reread, the link provided by Abu-Zayad. You should see a correlation of Zionism/Collectivism/Communism.

[Lawman]

[quote]I just happened to be the one who caught you with your fingers in the cookie jar.[/quote]

For failing to provide a link; which by the way is done here all the time.

What I offered was very short and exactly best described what I know on the subject. If I performed some
form of internet ettoquet faux-paux; to all I apologize. To me, it's 6 or 1/2 dozen.

[quote]It's my opinion that you are precisely the kind of person that would approve of most of the troubling policies that are either already in effect today, or in the process of becoming effective. There is not much doubt in my mind that a person who denies the Holocaust (quibble as you may about your intent for doing so) would have no problem with torturing folks like me.[/quote]

Like #22, you missed the point:

I was raising the question why is it illegal/taboo to openly discuss/debate the Holocaust (ico: Ernst Zundel).
Surely there is enough information available to dismiss the claims made by the likes of Zundel. what's the problem; maybe some of what he speaks holds truths.

Some here claimed the Red Cross document that opened that thread was a forgery, btw I have seen documentaries which viewed subjectively and not objectively (as the intent of the producer) alot of questions arose for me.

[b]Disclaimer: I have been involved media production for more than twenty years.[/b]

Revisionist research have been able to research and reduce the original claims of Auschwitcz death totals.

[quote]would have no problem with torturing folks like me[/quote]

[quote]Furthermore, I also think that you would find it easy to "justify" such actions, if they came to pass, on the basis of your nutty, sanctimonious version of fundamentalist Christianity. You would think that such actions are "right" and "proper"--"moral" acts of goodness, if you will.[/quote]


Homer, I cannot harm a sole and I harbor no intent too. I merely see what's going on in this country and for me this is the United States of Amrica and not the United Staes of Israel. Personally, as you know, I bear my own cross. As a US Navy Chief, I swear to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic.

OK, OK insert your " well then go get George Bush and his crowd" here

But I understand their is a conflict with my Christian beliefs, I must deal with this myself.

[quote]"Jesus tells me, this I know, Islamo-fascists have to go." In my opinion, your upside-down world is a very dangerous one, and you are a very dangerous person. Not because of your level of intellect, but because of your lack of any real and profound sense of morality.[/quote]

I stated my sources; I did not mention any christian fundamentalist references.

MORALITY,MORALITY you speak; I am ready to open up the doctrine of Christianity for all to see.

Is Islam ready too, I think NOT!

[Lawman]

Disclaimer: Tid-bit, from a site on David Koresh and the Branch Davidians

The Star of David is a political symbol, not a religious one; it is not Biblical and has nothing to do with King David of the Old Testament.


[u]The Star of David [/u] was originally the emblem of David al-Roy, [u]a Messianic 12 Century Khazar Jew [/u] who dreamt about the conquest of Palestine and raised an army for that purpose. You will remember that Khazaria lay between the Caspian and Black Seas. The Khazars converted to Judaism in the 8th Century; their descendants, the European Jews, falsely claim to be the descendants of the ancient Hebrews. So David al-Roy's Star of David (al-Roy) became the emblem of the Jewish Crusades, particularly the Zionist holy mission to conquer Palestine for Judaism. You can read about this history in Arthur Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe."

[jza10304]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='289324' date='Jun 30 2006, 04:46 PM'][color="#CC0000"][b]I actually feel sorry for these [s]Jews[/s] Christians ... they have had their religion hijacked by greedy, militaristic pieces of shit ....
Also = good luck getting these guys on a US News network [/b] [/color][/quote]


[quote name='oldschooler' post='289373' date='Jun 30 2006, 07:35 PM']Hell change that word to Muslims and the same could be said
for a selct few that you don`t hear many Muslims condemning...
I know ...I know. I strayed off topic. But it doesn`t make what I said false...[/quote]

Anyone else see a pattern here?........

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='steggyD' post='289961' date='Jul 3 2006, 10:50 AM']BJ, you do realize though, that there are already Jews from the Middle East, living in Israel, even former Iraqi Jews. They're not all these Kazars that you speak of.[/quote]


[b]No shit .... only about 80% of the worlds Jews (Ashkenazi) are Khazars ....

The Sephardim are not Khazar , nor are the ex Yemeni Jews .... or the Ethiopian Falasha (the Jews of the Bible) [/b]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='290051' date='Jul 3 2006, 02:28 PM'][b]No shit .... only about 80% of the worlds Jews (Ashkenazi) are Khazars ....

The Sephardim are not Khazar , nor are the ex Yemeni Jews .... or the Ethiopian Falasha (the Jews of the Bible) [/b][/quote]
How can you be so certain that the Jews in Ethiopia are the Jews from the bible?

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='jza10304' post='290036' date='Jul 3 2006, 01:17 PM']Anyone else see a pattern here?........[/quote]
What pattern? Old is right in his assertion....

[Homer_Rice]

Lawman;

Lots of Nazis were "nice guys," too. They were capable of committing horrendous crimes against civilization and humanity with a smile on their face.

I presume you struck as a JO when you were a boot? If so, then you ought to know better. If you went to "A" school, then you really ought to know better. In any case, co-opting entire passages of other's work and presenting it as your own speaks to integrity. I think you knew better. The fact that what you stole was some juvenile crap from the Ayn Rand Objectivist school is not surprising. After all, her primary book on ethics was entitled, "The Virtue of Selfishness."

I stand by my judgement. You are dangerous, not because of specific attributes of your faith, which, if removed from the exercise of power is a rather impotent self-delusion, but because your kind of faith is intimately tied to power. It is precisely this combination which makes you, and others like you, a potential enemy of humanity.

I haven't missed the point.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='290142' date='Jul 3 2006, 07:24 PM']Lawman;

Lots of Nazis were "nice guys," too. They were capable of committing horrendous crimes against civilization and humanity with a smile on their face.

I presume you struck as a JO when you were a boot? If so, then you ought to know better. If you went to "A" school, then you really ought to know better. In any case, co-opting entire passages of other's work and presenting it as your own speaks to integrity. I think you knew better. The fact that what you stole was some juvenile crap from the Ayn Rand Objectivist school is not surprising. After all, her primary book on ethics was entitled, "The Virtue of Selfishness."

I stand by my judgement. You are dangerous, not because of specific attributes of your faith, which, if removed from the exercise of power is a rather impotent self-delusion, but because your kind of faith is intimately tied to power. It is precisely this combination which makes you, and others like you, a potential enemy of humanity.

I haven't missed the point.[/quote]
Are you sure you haven't pegged him for a liberal?

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='290152' date='Jul 3 2006, 10:19 PM']Are you sure you haven't pegged him for a liberal?[/quote]

With respect to the history of economic thought and practice, he is a liberal of the British East India Company type.

[Lawman]

Homer,

I just lost an hours worth of input. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//20.gif[/img] &%*#@!

I am a self proclaimed Redneck: Actually, both parents born and raised approximatelly 40-50 miles south of Lexington.

descript I have taken from another site.

There are millions of Rednecks in the hollers of Appalachia and all over America who are not going to be intimidated by anyone. They are not going to move away from land that may have been in their family for generations. [b]Defiant independence [/b] defines them; it is their blessing and their curse. As Jim Goad says in The Redneck Manifesto; the difference between White trash and a Redneck is: White trash will piss you off because they are stupid and don't know any better, but a Redneck will do it to spite you.

Rednecks are open and up front about everything, and it is their decisiveness of character which frightens people. A lot of the stereotyping of Rednecks as "mean" is the work of the media. For example, in 1971 when James Dickey was doing research for the book Deliverance, he went on a canoe trip alone. His canoe capsized in whitewater, and he almost drowned. He was saved and taken back to civilization by a couple of Redneck backwoodsmen. But that didn't make a good story -- no bad guy. So he changed the kind, helpful hillbillies into crude, nasty, brutes and made the Rednecks the bad guys.
Quentin Tarintino did the same thing in "Pulp Fiction".

I am a photographer/videographer, we have sinced merged with the Journalist/Lithographer's and Illustrative Draftsman to become the mass Communication Specialist. On Deployment,as Editor-in Chief one of my duties was to proof-read the dailey paper we produced. We had to be 100% accurate with no oppourtunity for a retraction say like the USA did last week with the NSA and Phone Company collusion story they had ran earlier. What you missed it? Yeah, they had no proof, but still stand by the story.

I had so much more in my lost thread. I'm done.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote]We had to be 100% accurate with no oppourtunity for a retraction say like the USA did last week with the NSA and Phone Company collusion story they had ran earlier. What you missed it? Yeah, they had no proof, but still stand by the story.[/quote]

I didn't miss it, so I know that the above is a mischaracterization of what actually was retracted/corrected. Furthermore, having been in the Navy, I'm aware of the quality of journalism within it. Pretty much like everywhere else--from top-notch to crap.

[quote]I am a self proclaimed Redneck: Actually, both parents born and raised approximatelly 40-50 miles south of Lexington.[/quote]

Which proves what? Once of the primary branches of my ancestors came through the Cumberland Gap in the 1770s. Some of those folks were fine Americans, some turned out to be Confederate traitors. Me, personally, I exercise my own judgement and hope to be judged by the small wake I leave behind.

Is we [url="http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33924?issue=4227&special=1996"]a-feudin'?[/url]

[Guest fredtoast]

[quote name='Lawman' post='290194' date='Jul 4 2006, 09:02 AM'][b]Defiant independence [/b] defines them; it is their blessing and their curse.

Rednecks are open and up front about everything, and it is their decisiveness of character which frightens people.[/quote]


Actually what defines them and frightens people is their compusive fear of change. Anything "new" is bad to them and they will oppose it with violence. They cannot adapt to the rapidly changing world around them and that scares the shit out of them.