Adding Fuel to the Fire

[Guest CincyInDC]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='326722' date='Aug 30 2006, 01:08 PM']the problem isn't that we are not investing in mexico... we give them massive amounts of aid: [url="http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/aid.html"]17.895 million in 2004.[/url] the problem in mexico isn't even the free trade... if we dropped NAFTA right now, mexico's inflation and prices would skyrocket tremendously... they are too invested in our own economy, and too used to our cheap taxes we give them... cutting NAFTA would only mean that mexico wanted to be protectionist economically, and they would be starting from scratch...[/quote]

Did you just Straw Man me, BR? I think we're saying the same thing here: take away the incentive to cross into the US. I just wasn't specific when I said "invest." I don't consider aid to be an investment; I don't consider buiding a plant and hiring Mexicans to work for $.02 an hour for Monsanto to be an investment, and I don't consider making the few wealthy Mexicans even wealthier to be an investment. And I would never suggest dropping our guard at the borders just because Mexicans (much like Canadians) are no longer clamoring to get in. Not to say that I don't know a few clamoring, anti-socialsim Canadians.

I stand by my first point that the Regime wants the cheap, illegal labor from Mexico.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='CincyInDC' post='326738' date='Aug 30 2006, 12:37 PM']I stand by my first point that the Regime wants the cheap, illegal labor from Mexico.[/quote]

You`d have a point in this shit started in the year 2000...

[Guest CincyInDC]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='326740' date='Aug 30 2006, 01:39 PM']You`d have a point in this shit started in the year 2000...[/quote]

Don't make that leap that because I completely hate Bush so very much that I think previous presidents had it right. US foreign policy towards Mexico has ALWAYS been shitty for Mexicans. We have a unique opportunity (incentive, really) to change it to be mutually beneficial, and I don't think Clinton would have taken it, and I don't think Bush will take it.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='CincyInDC' post='326738' date='Aug 30 2006, 01:37 PM']Did you just Straw Man me, BR? I think we're saying the same thing here: take away the incentive to cross into the US. I just wasn't specific when I said "invest." I don't consider aid to be an investment; I don't consider buiding a plant and hiring Mexicans to work for $.02 an hour for Monsanto to be an investment, and I don't consider making the few wealthy Mexicans even wealthier to be an investment. And I would never suggest dropping our guard at the borders just because Mexicans (much like Canadians) are no longer clamoring to get in. Not to say that I don't know a few clamoring, anti-socialsim Canadians.

I stand by my first point that the Regime wants the cheap, illegal labor from Mexico.[/quote]

my point was that: yes, your right.. but only partially right imo... you are only focusing on one prong on the attack... what you are saying is that we have to help mexico get on their feet... i was saying that we always have tried, but their corruption stopped them from prospering and spreading wealth around...

but you dont' mention how you enforce the law... that is as important as helping the mexican economy...

i agree that the current admin doesn't want to open up this can of worms... it could easily turn the economy on its head, piss off more non americans, along w/ pissing off alot of americans... there is no right answer here, b/c the left wants the opposite of what the right wants... and imo, neither are right in this case... actually, they are both right, but they need to combine their ideas...

when you said: [i]The real solution to any problem is to treat the root cause...not the symptoms.[/i] i took it as you saying that enforcement is not that important... that is why i responded the way i did...

[Guest CincyInDC]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='326751' date='Aug 30 2006, 01:49 PM']when you said: [i]The real solution to any problem is to treat the root cause...not the symptoms.[/i] i took it as you saying that enforcement is not that important... that is why i responded the way i did...[/quote]

I see why you thought I meant "drop treatment of the symptoms." Totally not what I had in mind. I think enforcement would become [i]manageable [/i]with the current root cause no longer driving the issue.

I generally try to avoid writing too much in a post because a) I shouldn't write as much as I do (while at work) and I personally don't do more than skim the really long posts by folks like CB, BJ, BR, and HR and I hate being a hypocrite.


EDIT: that coolie face was supposed to be something more like "point B".

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='CincyInDC' post='326750' date='Aug 30 2006, 12:49 PM']Don't make that leap that because I completely hate Bush so very much that I think previous presidents had it right. US foreign policy towards Mexico has ALWAYS been shitty for Mexicans. We have a unique opportunity (incentive, really) to change it to be mutually beneficial, and I don't think Clinton would have taken it, and I don't think Bush will take it.[/quote]



So we want cheap labor, or we have bad policy towards Mexico ?

Oh, I guess you mean both ?


I have an idea... how about the Mexican Government takes care
of their own corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, and policies, instead
of blaming the U.S. for their shit ?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='326781' date='Aug 30 2006, 02:29 PM']So we want cheap labor, or we have bad policy towards Mexico ?

Oh, I guess you mean both ?
[b]I have an idea... how about the Mexican Government takes care
of their own corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, and policies, instead
of blaming the U.S. for their shit ?[/b][/quote]


Completely agree. Now perhaps we can find a way to put ecnomic or political pressure on them to do so. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img]

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='326783' date='Aug 30 2006, 02:31 PM']Completely agree. Now perhaps we can find a way to put ecnomic or political pressure on them to do so. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img][/quote]
sure, and during the meantime we can use our god given rights to secure our own boarders and protect our fellow countrymen

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='326787' date='Aug 30 2006, 02:35 PM']sure, and during the meantime we can use our god given rights to secure our own boarders and protect our fellow countrymen[/quote]


yeah but lets forget about this wall idea for a moment. I've been working on a prototype of something that will work even better. Now it might be a little on the expensive side, but the protection of our fellow countrymen should not have a price.





































[img]http://www.reelingreviews.com/bubbleboypic.jpg[/img]

[Guest CincyInDC]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='326781' date='Aug 30 2006, 02:29 PM']So we want cheap labor, or we have bad policy towards Mexico ?

Oh, I guess you mean both ?
[b]I have an idea... how about the Mexican Government takes care
of their own corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, and policies,[/b] instead
of blaming the U.S. for their shit ?[/quote]

I totally agree that would be ideal.

There's no place like home...there's no place like home.

[img]http://thewizardofoz.warnerbros.com/movie/img/photos/photo16.jpg[/img]

All kidding aside, some of the goals of the various parties/players are completely opposed. Can there be cheap labor, a prosperous, stable Mexico, and 0 illegal immagrants? Depends on how cheap is cheap, I guess. I am all for paying workers fair, living wages (whether American or legal alien). It will suck, however, when cheap shit from Wal-Mart and everything else starts costing more.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='326792' date='Aug 30 2006, 02:48 PM']yeah but lets forget about this wall idea for a moment. I've been working on a prototype of something that will work even better. Now it might be a little on the expensive side, but the protection of our fellow countrymen should not have a price.
[img]http://www.reelingreviews.com/bubbleboypic.jpg[/img][/quote]

Probably be better if we just put electronic collars on them, like we do our dogs to keep them from leaving the yard.

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='325991' date='Aug 29 2006, 03:20 PM'][b]- hard working mexicans are not a big threat to the U.S. at present .... they do jobs Americans don't ... and prop up social security. [/b][/quote]
I disagree with them taking jobs that Americans don't. At points in my life, being a young father without too great of a career, I had to take on second jobs. And at those second jobs, I worked side by side with illegal Mexicans. And there were other US citizens there. However, I'm sure we were being replaced slowly by the cheaper Mexicans. The job wasn't even listed; I was told of it by word of mouth. There are plenty of poor people around here who need jobs, but those jobs aren't even being advertised. Why? Because they rely upon their steady flow of illegals to come take those jobs. So, by first hand experience, I don't exactly believe this bumper sticker phrase to be true.

Propping up social security, well, they do help there. But we did this to ourselves, with abortion or otherwise not having as many children, and the ability for people to live older and older.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='steggyD' post='326954' date='Aug 30 2006, 07:48 PM']I disagree with them taking jobs that Americans don't. At points in my life, being a young father without too great of a career, I had to take on second jobs. And at those second jobs, I worked side by side with illegal Mexicans. And there were other US citizens there. However, I'm sure we were being replaced slowly by the cheaper Mexicans. The job wasn't even listed; I was told of it by word of mouth. There are plenty of poor people around here who need jobs, but those jobs aren't even being advertised. Why? Because they rely upon their steady flow of illegals to come take those jobs. So, by first hand experience, I don't exactly believe this bumper sticker phrase to be true.

Propping up social security, well, they do help there. But we did this to ourselves, with abortion or otherwise not having as many children, and the ability for people to live older and older.[/quote]
thats not a question to merely disagree with bj on, its a factually inaccurate sweeping generalization of both american and mexican workers. so what bj would love for you all to believe is that without illegals working we wouldnt have any labor workers, but in all sincerity thats a complete falsehood.

sure, some migrant workers take the jobs of some americans and work them at a lower wage which generally helps the economy as a whole, but not every illegal immigrant is based in california picking fruit. they are beginning to take over factory jobs, construction jobs, landscaping businesses, and every other sort or entry level labor intensive fields you could imagine.

how some of our more "liberal" posters can support such massive illegal immigration without seeing the hypocrisy of criticizing bushs domestic economic programs in the same breath is both sad and hysterical at the same time.

[Guest steggyD]

They are definitely taking over the labor work in the construction industry, even all the way to up here in upstate NY. I remember when young guys fresh out of school would take those jobs. Now that they are not available to them, what are they to do? Perhaps cause trouble on some street corner.

But whatever ... Keep telling yourselves, people, that the illegal Mexicans are doing only the jobs that us Americans won't do.

What I don't get, though, is how it is really good for the economy. Sure, the person paying the illegals are making more money, but they don't always pass those savings onto the customers, if they ever do at all. Then you have other people not making any money at all, or they are forced to take whatever customer service jobs are left that will not hire illegals, for very little pay. And I'll tell you one thing, construction and other jobs like that may be tough on the body, but it's easier than being a corporate whore stuck inside of a store all day. But maybe that's just me.

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote]Buchanan: Bush Responsible For Next Terror Attack If Borders Stay Open
War is the health of the state says best selling author as he warns of 'third world invasion'

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | August 29 2006

Pat Buchanan, currently riding high in the New York Times bestseller list with his book The Third World Invasion, told the Alex Jones Show that if there was another terror attack in the US, George W. Bush would be responsible due to his refusal to control the borders and that his place in history would be finished.

Here is the exchange from the show.

CALLER: "If 9/11 and the war on terror is indeed legitimate, why wasn't the border totally militarily secured on September 12th 2001?"

BUCHANAN: "It's because George Bush doesn't want to secure that border - I do believe he wants an open border between the United States and Mexico - he does not share the concern of a lot of us that this is a national security problem."

ALEX JONES: "Pat, won't he just get more power if there's another terror attack - that he could take more American liberties?"

BUCHANAN: "I think if the terrorists have come across that Mexican border, I think his place in history is finished."

ALEX JONES: "But my point is, if he got so much power out of 9/11 and got to grandstand...."

BUCHANAN: "Well there's no doubt about it, [b]war is the health of the state[/b]."

ALEX JONES: "So do you agree with me that they could try to spin it, even though with common sense we would see it as another attack, they could kind of spin it and ignore the border issue and Bush could get even more power out of it?"

BUCHANAN: "Well yes, sure, sure, he might put in a lot more laws and things like that but [b]I do think people would say look, you did not seal that border just as the caller said when you had three or four, when you had five years to do it you didn't do it and now we got hit again - you are responsible this time."[/b]


Buchanan went on to warn that the open borders policy is being crafted by the dumbass elite in alliance with Mexico's Vicente Fox.

[b]"Fox and Bush have been colluding on this policy since before 9/11 - Vicente Fox was standing right beside Bush when Bush declared the Minutemen vigilantes," [/b] said Buchanan.

[b]
[size=3]Buchanan said the elite were targeting the middle class for destruction and using rampant illegal immigration to realize that goal.[/size][/b]

"I do believe that the American middle and working class of this country as I wrote in the title of an earlier book, are victims of a great betrayal - their manufacturing jobs are being sent abroad, illegal aliens are coming being invited into their country, the products of China are pouring in, American jobs are being lost, they're bringing in Indian kids and bright young kids from Bangladesh to take the jobs of Americans."

"The middle class is under assault," said Buchanan as he illustrated the deliberate agenda for mega corporations to construct a new world order system.

[size=4]"Their ambition is to remove all national barriers and frontiers so they can move people and goods wherever they want to which they feel is most efficient for the company - so they put the company ahead of the country and they genuinely believe that what we need is a global market where these big corporations can move all over the global market and there's a global government there that runs it all - this is the new world order idea."[/size]

Buchanan identified "[size=4]the Crystals and the Weekly Standard and all the rest of them," [/size] along with the [size=4][u] [b]Rockefeller dumbass [/b] [/u] hierarchy as the masterminds behind the push to eliminate US sovereignty and put in place the American Union.[/size]

[b]"I think if the dumbasss do not secure these borders they're going to be wiped out - now the Democrats aren't going to do it either but [size=4]you'll get a new kind of dumbass party coming[/size]," [/b] said Buchanan.[/quote]

Here's where it gets dicey. The Neo-Con/Rockefeller dumbass NWO game is why Colon Bowell isn't the sweet, charming Negro that so many good white folk have been duped into thinking he is. But then, is reported CFR member Pat Buchanan really the fire-breathing nativist paleo-conservative that he appears to be? Maybe so, but Pat's "new kind of dumbass party coming" sounds like the realization of fully manifested fascist mobilization of the middle-class through grievance manipulation.

True, the administrations of the last 30 years have systematically set up the authoritarian state in broad outline, but Buchanan is hinting at something that more persnickety political observers would be far more comfortable labeling "fascist" as the sense of betrayal sets in among the middle class who followed their narcisistic fantasies in supporting the Neo-Con/Rockefeller dumbass axis. Throw in the disaffected military, that doesn't know whether to blame their former supposed champions or the "weak" "Liberals" whom they reflexively demonize, as muscle for silencing dissent, and you've got a full-fledged fascist movement and blood flowing in the streets. Of course, as was the case with the previous manifestations of note, a full-fledged fascist movement would merely be a pretext for an internationalist crack-down facilitating the very nationless global sweat-shop that Buchanan decries.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='327024' date='Aug 30 2006, 07:44 PM']Here's where it gets dicey. The Neo-Con/Rockefeller dumbass NWO game is why Colon Bowell isn't the sweet, charming Negro that so many good white folk have been duped into thinking he is. But then, is reported CFR member Pat Buchanan really the fire-breathing nativist paleo-conservative that he appears to be? Maybe so, but Pat's "new kind of dumbass party coming" sounds like the realization of fully manifested fascist mobilization of the middle-class through grievance manipulation.

True, the administrations of the last 30 years have systematically set up the authoritarian state in broad outline, but Buchanan is hinting at something that more persnickety political observers would be far more comfortable labeling "fascist" as the sense of betrayal sets in among the middle class who followed their narcisistic fantasies in supporting the Neo-Con/Rockefeller dumbass axis. Throw in the disaffected military, that doesn't know whether to blame their former supposed champions or the "weak" "Liberals" whom they reflexively demonize, as muscle for silencing dissent, and you've got a full-fledged fascist movement and blood flowing in the streets. Of course, as was the case with the previous manifestations of note, a full-fledged fascist movement would merely be a pretext for an internationalist crack-down facilitating the very nationless global sweat-shop that Buchanan decries.[/quote]
Colin Powell is certainly the most sweet, charming Negro I've ever met. I shook his hand at a military function once, and the slimy residue he left on my palm that I so vapidly lapped up was so sweetly unctuous, I voted for Bush. Twice.
I still feel like a dirty whore.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='327027' date='Aug 30 2006, 09:51 PM']Colin Powell is certainly the most sweet, charming Negro I've ever met. I shook his hand at a military function once, and the slimy residue he left on my palm that I so vapidly lapped up was so sweetly unctuous, I voted for Bush. Twice.
I still feel like a dirty whore.[/quote]

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='327027' date='Aug 30 2006, 09:51 PM']Colin Powell is certainly the most sweet, charming Negro I've ever met. I shook his hand at a military function once, and the slimy residue he left on my palm that I so vapidly lapped up was so sweetly unctuous, I voted for Bush. Twice.
I still feel like a dirty whore.[/quote]


I can imagine

[Guest Coy Bacon]

BLACK ACTIVIST PLANS SPANISH LAWSUITS



By Robert "Rob" Redding Jr.

Publisher

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22, 2006, 10:30 a.m. - A black activist is organizing a wave of class-action workplace lawsuits for people who have lost their jobs because they did not speak Spanish.

"We are going to have a major class-action suit in this country in the workplace," Claud Anderson told a radio host. "[b]You cannot in an English speaking country demand that people speak Spanish[/b]."

Anderson said many Latinos who resolve to continue speaking their native language "[b]signifies power" and is meant to make blacks in particular "deal with them on their turf."[/b]

"Any black person that cannot speak Spanish [are] losing jobs in California, Texas and Arizona," he told Joe Madison, the morning show host on XM 169 The Power on Friday.

Anderson - who is also a radio host and author of "Powernomics," a book about how to strengthen black spending power - said he is also concerned about black students, who he said are performing poorly in high schools.

"This is an English speaking country," Anderson said. "It is insulting for people to mandate that black kids learn Spanish when they can't even speak basic English ... You got to learn your own language first."

He is asking anyone who has lost their job due to being forced to learn Spanish to call his Harvest Institute at 202-518-2465.

[url="http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2006newspages/black_activist_plans_spanish_law_06_09100058.htm"]http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages...06_09100058.htm[/url]

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='327044' date='Aug 30 2006, 10:14 PM']BLACK ACTIVIST PLANS SPANISH LAWSUITS



By Robert "Rob" Redding Jr.

Publisher

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22, 2006, 10:30 a.m. - A black activist is organizing a wave of class-action workplace lawsuits for people who have lost their jobs because they did not speak Spanish.

"We are going to have a major class-action suit in this country in the workplace," Claud Anderson told a radio host. "[b]You cannot in an English speaking country demand that people speak Spanish[/b]."

Anderson said many Latinos who resolve to continue speaking their native language "[b]signifies power" and is meant to make blacks in particular "deal with them on their turf."[/b]

"Any black person that cannot speak Spanish [are] losing jobs in California, Texas and Arizona," he told Joe Madison, the morning show host on XM 169 The Power on Friday.

Anderson - who is also a radio host and author of "Powernomics," a book about how to strengthen black spending power - said he is also concerned about black students, who he said are performing poorly in high schools.

"This is an English speaking country," Anderson said. "It is insulting for people to mandate that black kids learn Spanish when they can't even speak basic English ... You got to learn your own language first."

He is asking anyone who has lost their job due to being forced to learn Spanish to call his Harvest Institute at 202-518-2465.

[url="http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2006newspages/black_activist_plans_spanish_law_06_09100058.htm"]http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages...06_09100058.htm[/url][/quote]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='327044' date='Aug 30 2006, 08:14 PM']BLACK ACTIVIST PLANS SPANISH LAWSUITS



By Robert "Rob" Redding Jr.

Publisher

WASHINGTON, Aug. 22, 2006, 10:30 a.m. - A black activist is organizing a wave of class-action workplace lawsuits for people who have lost their jobs because they did not speak Spanish.

"We are going to have a major class-action suit in this country in the workplace," Claud Anderson told a radio host. "[b]You cannot in an English speaking country demand that people speak Spanish[/b]."

Anderson said many Latinos who resolve to continue speaking their native language "[b]signifies power" and is meant to make blacks in particular "deal with them on their turf."[/b]

"Any black person that cannot speak Spanish [are] losing jobs in California, Texas and Arizona," he told Joe Madison, the morning show host on XM 169 The Power on Friday.

Anderson - who is also a radio host and author of "Powernomics," a book about how to strengthen black spending power - said he is also concerned about black students, who he said are performing poorly in high schools.

"This is an English speaking country," Anderson said. "It is insulting for people to mandate that black kids learn Spanish when they can't even speak basic English ... You got to learn your own language first."

He is asking anyone who has lost their job due to being forced to learn Spanish to call his Harvest Institute at 202-518-2465.

[url="http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages/2006newspages/black_activist_plans_spanish_law_06_09100058.htm"]http://www.reddingnewsreview.com/newspages...06_09100058.htm[/url][/quote]

WTF?
ALL people that have the distinct advantage of being schooled in our public education system at little or no cost to them should learn to speak english. Fuck spanish, it's a second language (for now, at least).

[quote name='ONYX' post='327033' date='Aug 30 2006, 07:58 PM']

[/quote]
I can still elicit laughter when I try....

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='326937' date='Aug 30 2006, 07:30 PM']Probably be better if we just put electronic collars on them, like we do our dogs to keep them from leaving the yard.[/quote]

[|Bunghole|]

That's really not a bad idea...for all US citizens.....

I'll submit to barking control via electronic stimulation if you will.....it's only electricity....

[Nati Ice]

think thatd give rolling blackouts a new meaning?

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='327117' date='Aug 30 2006, 11:12 PM']That's really not a bad idea...for all US citizens.....

I'll submit to barking control via electronic stimulation if you will.....it's only electricity....[/quote]

for unruly, bitching wives... yeah, i'd be willing to wear the collars to take care of that problem.....

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='327123' date='Aug 30 2006, 11:15 PM']think thatd give rolling blackouts a new meaning?[/quote]


[img]http://www.illegalaliens.us/images/Amnesty%20Seeking%20Illegal%20Aliens.JPG[/img]

the one problem they would run into leaving america though.... mexico enforces their immigration policies....