The VT Shooter .... ?

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='486821' date='May 15 2007, 01:00 PM'][font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]who wants to point out the ironic humor in the fact that he messed up the pledge ? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//23.gif[/img][/b][/size][/font][/quote]


I wasn`t reciting the pledge word for word. I was making a joke.


I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. AMERICA FUCK YEAH !


Now I recited the Pledge of Allegiance.

Leave it to you to ignore everything else in my post, and try to make me look
like an idiot because I didn`t make my joke be the Pledge, verbatim . . .

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='486833' date='May 15 2007, 02:14 PM']I wasn`t reciting the pledge word for word. I was making a joke.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. AMERICA FUCK YEAH !
Now I recited the Pledge of Allegiance.

Leave it to you to ignore everything else in my post, and try to make me look
like an idiot because I didn`t make my joke be the Pledge, verbatim . . . [/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I remember as a student up until the 9th grade, they made us stand and say that
every morning. In retrospect, was that really a fair and healthy thing to do a child?

Wouldn't the pledge be more sincere if it was voluntary rather than forced?[/b][/color]

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote]Its human nature to talk about the bad before the good and sometimes if at all. You see this in everything, the news is perfect examples of it. You see it when your buddy complains about his woman but rarely talks to you about the good stuff she does.[/quote]
I agree with you on the news perspective. But, haven't you ever heard of lockerroom talk??
Of course not, you're in the band...


j/k


[quote]I agree with you that we do alot of good for the world, but does that mean that we should just pretend that we dont do bad either?[/quote]
No - but when the bad gets posted about 95-98% of the time and the good about 3-5% of the time it isn't exactly reflecting an equitable balance. Do you not agree?



Jamie - I was just joking regarding the band comment. Just want to make sure not to step on any toes!!

[quote name='sneaky' post='486841' date='May 15 2007, 02:21 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I remember as a student up until the 9th grade, they made us stand and say that
every morning. In retrospect, was that really a fair and healthy thing to do a child?

Wouldn't the pledge be more sincere if it was voluntary rather than forced?[/b][/color][/quote]
No - dammit. You're going to stand up, recite it, and like it!!

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='sneaky' post='486829' date='May 15 2007, 02:10 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Well considering the United States created the disease, I think it's
the least they could do........helping Africa and all. But yeah your right, it is a good thing.
You are on a roll. Name another.

[/b][/color][/quote]
sneaky - you said name one.

Now it is name another. We do, and it'll be name another. It wouldn't end.

And, AIDS was discovered in America. It has hardly been determined that it was "created" in the United States. It actually is a variant of a strain of virus native to chimps located in Africa. I'd tend to think that it originated in Africa and then made its way to the US. Not to split hairs or anything...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486843' date='May 15 2007, 02:24 PM']I agree with you on the news perspective. But, haven't you ever heard of lockerroom talk??
Of course not, you're in the band...
j/k

No - but when the bad gets posted about 95-98% of the time and the good about 3-5% of the time it isn't exactly reflecting an equitable balance. Do you not agree?
Jamie - I was just joking regarding the band comment. Just want to make sure not to step on any toes!!
No - dammit. You're going to stand up, recite it, and like it!!
[/quote]


Ironicly I went to North Hardin High School my freshmen year in Radcliff KY, the band was 10 billion times better than the football team. People came to see our halftime show and not the football team on friday nights.

And as far as lockerroom talk, im assuming you mean we shouldnt air our dirty laundry in public. Why? If it leads to a certin amount of embarrassment for the sake of change, wouldnt that be a good thing?

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='sneaky' post='486829' date='May 15 2007, 02:10 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Well considering the United States created the disease, I think it's
the least they could do........helping Africa and all. But yeah your right, it is a good thing.
You are on a roll. Name another.

[/b][/color][/quote]

i didn't know that we could make up facts... in that case, i can think of countless things bush has done well...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='486855' date='May 15 2007, 02:36 PM']i didn't know that we could make up facts...[/quote]



Well then you havent been paying attention to this administration since 9/11 have you?

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='486852' date='May 15 2007, 02:34 PM']Ironicly I went to North Hardin High School my freshmen year in Radcliff KY, the band was 10 billion times better than the football team. People came to see our halftime show and not the football team on friday nights.

[b]And as far as lockerroom talk, im assuming you mean we shouldnt air our dirty laundry in public. Why? If it leads to a certin amount of embarrassment for the sake of change, wouldnt that be a good thing?[/b][/quote]
NO - I mean boys will be boys and if they complain about what their womain won't do then they most definitely brag about what their women will do as well.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486857' date='May 15 2007, 02:39 PM']NO - I mean boys will be boys and if they complain about what their womain won't do then they most definitely brag about what their women will do as well.[/quote]


Ah.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486785' date='May 15 2007, 12:11 PM']I love the fact that I can go to church on Sunday morning and not worry about getting shot at or killed.[/quote]
[b]- You obviously don’t live in the Ghetto …
- You do realize that the U.S. has the highest rates of gun violence in the world don’t you ?[/b]





[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486785' date='May 15 2007, 12:11 PM']I love the fact that we have free elections to decide who is going to run our country.[/quote]
[b]- Yeah … where we have 2 corporate sponsored parties with very little choice or variance … and hell we can’t even go 20 years without our potential leader coming from one of 2 families.
- Brought to you by Diebold [/b]





[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486785' date='May 15 2007, 12:11 PM']And drive it wherever I choose without having to be worried about getting pulled over / arrested for being outside a neighborhood that I wasn't designated to be in.[/quote]
[b]- You have obviously never been a black man riding in a nice car in a white neighborhood [/b]





[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486785' date='May 15 2007, 12:11 PM']I love the fact that I can do so without real fear of being shot at.[/quote]
[b]- Wow … you are easily pleased. I would estimate that you have a higher chance of being shot in America … than 90 % of all the countries in the world. [/b]





[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486785' date='May 15 2007, 12:11 PM']I love the fact that I can have as many sons, and daughters, as I choose and can raise them as I see fit. I'm not on a quota system where if I have too many daughters some are going to be killed off.[/quote]
[b]- Out of the 192 countries in the world … only 1 has a state sponsored program on birth rates. That would be China … the country that the U.S. sponsors more than any other with our money. You could enjoy this ‘right’ anywhere in the world. [/b]




[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486785' date='May 15 2007, 12:11 PM']I love the fact that I, along with my wife, can elect to not have an abortion.[/quote]
[b]- Many nations in the world allow this … and this right may actually be ending soon here in America if the neo cons have their way. [/b]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='486856' date='May 15 2007, 02:38 PM']Well then you havent been paying attention to this administration since 9/11 have you? [/quote]



all jokes aside sneaky, how do you expect people to have a good debate about something if you bring up unproven gibberish out of nowhere when i answer a question of yours? If you are right, prove it... if you are not, then accept it as a fact that maybe bush has done at least one thing right, and then bash the other billion things you hate about him... you avoiding the fact that bush HAS done very good things w/ aids relief and instead bringing up a ridiculous accusation only weakens your arguments...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='486789' date='May 15 2007, 12:27 PM']Well, it seems to me, that if you were born here, then you would have love for your homeland.[/quote]
[b]Why would which nation you fell out of your mom in - automatically give you love for it? Is there something special in the air at birth ? Also I hope I don’t have to reference who was the first to maximize this term “Homeland” … (I’ll give you a hint he had a tiny mustache)[/b]





[quote name='oldschooler' post='486789' date='May 15 2007, 12:27 PM']For the future generations you hope to benefit.[/quote]
[b]With the way things are going … I fear for future generations and realize there won’t that many of them at this rate. [/b]





[quote name='oldschooler' post='486803' date='May 15 2007, 01:19 PM']I would argue that America does more for the benefit of mankind than they
do that is detremental.[/quote]
[b]I guess this is the fundamental disagreement that me and you share. I would argue the diametrical opposite position. [/b]





[quote name='oldschooler' post='486803' date='May 15 2007, 01:19 PM']When other Countries expierence disaster, famine ect, and need
help, which way do they look ?[/quote]
[b]Sometimes they look towards the U.S. (The nation with the most $, although we give a smaller percentage than many in Europe) …. Other times they look towards nations who give with fewer strings attached. Look up “Structural Adjustment” programs brought to you by the IMF.

- Also guess which nation I would argue is far more charitable on a per capita basis than America ? = Cuba. Ironically we turned down their doctors for New Orleans during Katrina while Bush played Golf on vacation. [/b]





[quote name='oldschooler' post='486803' date='May 15 2007, 01:19 PM']But this Country is the most charitable Nation on the Planet. We try to help our fellow man more than any other.[/quote]
[b]This is factually incorrect on a per capita % basis. In a total sum of sheer dollars … then I guess one could make a case that we give the most … but you could also claim we create the most poverty as well. [/b]




[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486815' date='May 15 2007, 01:48 PM']Attempting through diplomatic means (if you call the UN diplomacy) to get Iran to stop Uranium enrichment.[/quote]
[b]- Wow … so the only nation to ever drop nukes on civilian cities … is trying to stop others from getting them. This is not a charitable or good act … we want to maximize our own power. Get real. [/b]





[quote name='bengalrick' post='486816' date='May 15 2007, 01:53 PM']aids relief...[/quote]
[b]- This is probably one of the few things Bush has done right. He increased the funding for such a venture. Although yes he attached policies that ironically created more aids victims because of his insistence that safe condom usage be replaced with abstinence training programs. [/b]






[quote name='BengalsCat' post='486817' date='May 15 2007, 01:53 PM']So your saying that everyone involved in WW2 and ever other major conflict over the last 200+ years and has faught and died for america is a murder??[/quote]
[b]Of course not. Many who fought for America never killed anyone. Also it would depend on what you classify as “murder”. If merely killing someone is murder … then only those soldiers who killed someone else would be a murderer. If murder is killing someone who is threatening your life ... then it becomes very nuanced.

What do you believe is the definition of murder ? I would even argue that killing someone can sometimes be justified.

I am not against killing people ... I am against killing the wrong people or making me fund or be a part of it when I don't agree or benefit. [/b]






[quote name='oldschooler' post='486818' date='May 15 2007, 01:55 PM']How can this Country be people who hate this Country ? [/quote]
[b]- So are those Americans who hate the country not included in America then ? [/b]

[Guest bengalrick]

he only asked for one bj

its a old over used saying, but it fits: [i]even a broken clock is right twice a day[/i]...

to be totally honest and frank, its pretty hard to be on the wrong side of the aids debate... i figured that is the way that sneaky was going to take it...

[Jamie_B]

One right thing we have done in Bush's time in office.

Debt forgiveness in 3rd world countries. (of course we have a non-american in bono pressuring for it before it changes)

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='486827' date='May 15 2007, 01:05 PM']I agree with you that we do alot of good for the world, but does that mean that we should just pretend that we dont do bad either?[/quote]


Who said there isn`t any bad, and that you should just pretend to ignore it ?

If all you do is look for bad, point out bad, talk for bad, then there`s
a good chance you don`t see any good. And even if you do, no one
else will ever know that you do.

That`s what this whole conversation boils down to.
BJ is only known here by what he posts. He doesn`t just bash this
Administration, he bashes this Country all the way back to it`s founding and it`s core.
That`s why I responded to this thread. And I actually responded to the real topic even.
Now all we`re doing is having this verbal tennis match that really has nothing to do with
the real topic, or why it`s valid to ask BJ why he stays in a place he shows constant disdain for.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='486860' date='May 15 2007, 02:40 PM'][b]- You obviously don’t live in the Ghetto …
- You do realize that the U.S. has the highest rates of gun violence in the world don’t you ?[/b][/quote]
You're right. I made a decision / choice to not live in an area that has extremely high rates of gun violence.

[quote name='BlackJesus'][b]- You have obviously never been a black man riding in a nice car in a white neighborhood [/b][/quote]

You're right. I've never been a black man riding anywhere. Have you? BJ - tell me all about it.

[quote name='BlackJesus'][b]- Wow … you are easily pleased. I would estimate that you have a higher chance of being shot in America … than 90 % of all the countries in the world. [/b][/quote]

I may be naive, but I feel as safe traveling anywhere in America than I would anywhere overseas, and safer than most places.

I guess I am easily pleased. Whatever.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='486861' date='May 15 2007, 02:41 PM']

all jokes aside sneaky, how do you expect people to have a good debate about something if you bring up unproven gibberish out of nowhere when i answer a question of yours? If you are right, prove it... if you are not, then accept it as a fact that maybe bush has done at least one thing right, and then bash the other billion things you hate about him... you avoiding the fact that bush HAS done very good things w/ aids relief and instead bringing up a ridiculous accusation only weakens your arguments...[/quote]



[color="#FF0000"][b]First off as far as the origins of AIDS, there has been no universal scientific acceptance of
any theory. It comes down to the "blue monkey" theory, which I believe is crock of shit, or
it just popped out of no where, which I find also hard to believe or this disease was genetically engineered
by man, in which case I find, extremely likely.

To me, the US is like OJ Simpson when it comes to AIDS, I know they did it, it's the proving it that becomes
tricky.

And the AIDS relief program that Africa is receiving began before the Bush Admiistration.[/b][/color]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='486870' date='May 15 2007, 02:55 PM']Who said there isn`t any bad, and that you should just pretend to ignore it ?

If all you do is look for bad, point out bad, talk for bad, then there`s
a good chance you don`t see any good. And even if you do, no one
else will ever know that you do.

That`s what this whole conversation boils down to.
BJ is only known here by what he posts. He doesn`t just bash this
Administration, he bashes this Country all the way back to it`s founding and it`s core.
That`s why I responded to this thread. And I actually responded to the real topic even.
Now all we`re doing is having this verbal tennis match that really has nothing to do with
the real topic, or why it`s valid to ask BJ why he stays in a place he shows constant disdain for.[/quote]


Like I said before Ill let him answer, but I certinally dont highlight only the bad, however like I said its human nature to talk about the bad before the good and sometimes not the good at all. You do this because you want to see change in the bad, if you dont want to see change in the good why talk about it?

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='sneaky' post='486872' date='May 15 2007, 02:58 PM']

[color="#FF0000"][b]First off as far as the origins of AIDS, there has been no universal scientific acceptance of
any theory. It comes down to the "blue monkey" theory, which I believe is crock of shit, or
it just popped out of no where, which I find also hard to believe or this disease was genetically engineered
by man, in which case I find, extremely likely.

To me, the US is like OJ Simpson when it comes to AIDS, I know they did it, it's the proving it that becomes
tricky.

And the AIDS relief program that Africa is [b]receiving began before the Bush Admiistration[/b].[/b][/color][/quote]
So, you don't know for certain its origin but state it as being created by the US?

You requested one by this administration, or country (essentially either), in your original post. Not something started by just this adminstration.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486875' date='May 15 2007, 03:00 PM']So, you don't know for certain its origin but state it as being created by the US?[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Do you believe in God?

Are you certain of his origin? Do you have proof?
[/b][/color]

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486875' date='May 15 2007, 03:00 PM']You requested one by this administration, or country (essentially either), in your original post. Not something started by just this adminstration.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Ok, you named one. Im not disputing that. Yay. You rock . [/b][/color]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486871' date='May 15 2007, 02:57 PM']You're right. I made a decision / choice to not live in an area that has extremely high rates of gun violence.[/quote]
[b]Have you ever lived in the Ghetto ?

- Now if only everyone could afford to just pack up and move out to escape. [/b]




[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='486871' date='May 15 2007, 02:57 PM']You're right. I've never been a black man riding anywhere. Have you? BJ - tell me all about it.[/quote]
[b]- I've never been one personally ... although I did grow up with a black step father and watched as he was pulled over all the time for made up reasons.

Buy maybe you should ask sneaky who is black.




[color="#006400"]* Also for the record ... I am not convinced that Aids was created by the U.S. government ... although I would not be surprised or shocked if it were.[/b][/color]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='sneaky' post='486872' date='May 15 2007, 02:58 PM']

[color="#FF0000"][b]First off as far as the origins of AIDS, there has been no universal scientific acceptance of
any theory. It comes down to the "blue monkey" theory, which I believe is crock of shit, or
it just popped out of no where, which I find also hard to believe or this disease was genetically engineered
by man, in which case I find, extremely likely.

To me, the US is like OJ Simpson when it comes to AIDS, I know they did it, it's the proving it that becomes
tricky.

And the AIDS relief program that Africa is receiving began before the Bush Admiistration.[/b][/color][/quote]

i was refering to the increase in aids spending...

i thought you were more logically than your acting... can i just randomly blame people for things that i think they had a part in also?

i never said where aids originated from, but considering it is a disease that NOONE can freaking cure or really understand fully, i am just assuming that it was not man made...

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='sneaky' post='486879' date='May 15 2007, 03:04 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Do you believe in God?[/b][/color][/quote]
We're going down this road again.


Yes I do. You're point? I'm not the one that threw something up as factual hoping nobody would call it out only to admit later that I wasn't for sure.


Enough of this topic. Someone post something new as it appears to just go back and forth with nobody convincing anybody else of anything.

Training camp can't get here fast enough.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='486862' date='May 15 2007, 01:42 PM'][b]Why would which nation you fell out of your mom in - automatically give you love for it? Is there something special in the air at birth ? Also I hope I don’t have to reference who was the first to maximize this term “Homeland” … (I’ll give you a hint he had a tiny mustache)[/b][/quote]

Who said it was automatic ? I don`t fall out of my Mom automatically loving her,
or anyone else for that matter. I grew to love them and the piece of soil I fell out on.

Sieg Heil !

[quote][b]With the way things are going … I fear for future generations and realize there won’t that many of them at this rate. [/b][/quote]



Calm down there Chicken Little.

[quote][b]I guess this is the fundamental disagreement that me and you share. I would argue the diametrical opposite position. [/b][/quote]


You`re entitled to be wrong.


[quote][b]Sometimes they look towards the U.S. (The nation with the most $, although we give a smaller percentage than many in Europe) …. Other times they look towards nations who give with fewer strings attached. Look up “Structural Adjustment” programs brought to you by the IMF.

We are the most charitable Nation in the World.

As far as strings attached, I guess you`re talking about Countries like North Korea and Iran.

I don`t remember any strings when the Tsunami hit Thailand . . .

- Also guess which nation I would argue is far more charitable on a per capita basis than America ? = Cuba. Ironically we turned down their doctors for New Orleans during Katrina while Bush played Golf on vacation. [/b]
[b]This is factually incorrect on a per capita % basis. In a total sum of sheer dollars … then I guess one could make a case that we give the most … but you could also claim we create the most poverty as well. [/b][/quote]



I wasn`t just talking about our Government. I was also including the AMERICAN Red Cross
and other charitable organizations.

As far as us creating more poverty . . .



[quote][b]- So are those people who hate the country not included in America then ? [/b][/quote]

Sure they are. Their tax dollars spend just as good as anyones does. And/or their
welfare status counts just the same, as someone that "loves" this place.

I wouldn`t say they make up the Country though . . .