68% Of Republicans Don't believe in Evolution !!!

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote][size=4][u][img]http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/01/30/image538572g.jpg[/img]
[b]Poll: Most Republicans Reject Evolution[/b]
Gallup Survey Finds 68% Of Republicans Disbelieve Scientific Explanation Of Creation
June 12, 2007
(CBS/AP)[/u][/size]


The three Republican presidential candidates who indicated last month that they do not believe in evolution may have been taking a safe stance on the issue when it comes to appealing to GOP voters.

A Gallup poll released Monday said that while the [b]country is about evenly split over whether the theory of evolution is true,[/b] [b]Republicans disbelieve it by more than 2-to-1. [/b]

Republicans saying they don't believe in evolution outnumbered those who do by [b]68 percent to 30 percent[/b] in the survey. [b]Democrats believe in evolution by 57 percent to 40 percent,[/b] as do independents by a 61 percent to 37 percent margin.

[b]The poll also said that those who go to church often are far likelier to reject evolution[/b] than those who do not. Republicans are likelier than Democrats or independents to attend church services, according to Frank Newport, editor in chief of the Gallup Poll.

At the GOP's first presidential debate last month, the 10 candidates were asked which of them did not believe in evolution. Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo raised their hands.

The Gallup survey, conducted May 21 to 24, involved telephone interviews with 1,007 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.[/quote]


[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/12/politics/main2917719.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/12/...in2917719.shtml[/url]

[Guest #22]

Wow. So you start off with about 30% of Republicans who have [i]any[/i] chance of not being complete idiots, and I'm afraid that percentage is much lower (I'm going to guess that about 5% of registered republicans are of some intellectual quality).

Democrats are similarly low, but at least more of them believe in evolution.

god damn this country is fucked.

[Guest BengalBacker]

I'd like to see how the question was worded.

But no doubt that religion is the primary reason for the difference.

[Fanatical]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='501406' date='Jun 17 2007, 01:47 AM']I'd like to see how the question was worded.

But no doubt that religion is the primary reason for the difference.[/quote]

I hope so. Even the Creation Museum uses evolution. Evolution is a fact, and you don't have to look past children to see that.

Its also nice to see that the [i]independents[/i] are the most logically sound people.

[Jason]

[quote name='Fanatical' post='501409' date='Jun 17 2007, 05:33 AM']I hope so. Even the Creation Museum uses evolution. [b]Evolution is a fact[/b], and you don't have to look past children to see that.

Its also nice to see that the [i]independents[/i] are the most logically sound people.[/quote]

Really? Has evolution been observed in action? Has anyone ever witnessed a species transitioning into another?

Anyone?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Jason' post='501777' date='Jun 18 2007, 01:48 PM']Really? Has evolution been observed in action? Has anyone ever witnessed a species transitioning into another?

Anyone?[/quote]

[Guest #22]

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Beak-Finch-Story-Evolution-Time/dp/067973337X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/000-7512272-9593310?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182190709&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.com/Beak-Finch-Story-Evo...0709&sr=8-1[/url]

Game. Set. Match.

[Jason]

[quote name='#22' post='501785' date='Jun 18 2007, 02:19 PM'][url="http://www.amazon.com/Beak-Finch-Story-Evolution-Time/dp/067973337X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/000-7512272-9593310?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182190709&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.com/Beak-Finch-Story-Evo...0709&sr=8-1[/url]

Game. Set. Match.[/quote]

Start with a finch, end with a finch.

There is a difference between a species adapting to its surroundings, and one species becoming another species.

Now, if a lizard had become a finch, you'd have an arguement.

[Actium]

From one of my favorite movies:

[Actium]

I would also like to point out that those who believe absolutely in science rely just as much on faith as those who rely absolutely on religion. Because scientific knowledge is ever-expanding, in order to act on any bit of knowledge depends on believing it to be the truth. So, for instance, policies organized around something like fetus stem-cells depends on believing that it is a key to curing diseases. However, in the future knowledge might reveal that infant stem-cells are a red herring and it is adult stem-cells that are the proper target. So then that is focused on by policies. Then still later more knowledge might reveal a new technique to utilize fetus stem cells.

At any point, since the complete truth is not knowable, the scientist must have faith that the current point of view is the correct one. The only true difference between religious truth and scientific truth is that science is, at least in theory, a dynamic one.

Complete truth is a line, and science is an asymptote that moves ever closer to that line (hopefully), but which never intersects.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Actium' post='501819' date='Jun 18 2007, 02:14 PM']From one of my favorite movies:



[/quote]
That was great. What movie was that?
And I am quite confident in the level headed decision-making ability of one Sherman T Potter....

[Jason]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='501826' date='Jun 18 2007, 04:39 PM']That was great. What movie was that?
And I am quite confident in the level headed decision-making ability of one Sherman T Potter....[/quote]

Inherit the Wind.

[Jason]

[quote name='Actium' post='501825' date='Jun 18 2007, 04:31 PM']I would also like to point out that those who believe absolutely in science rely just as much on faith as those who rely absolutely on religion. Because scientific knowledge is ever-expanding, in order to act on any bit of knowledge depends on believing it to be the truth. [b]So, for instance, policies organized around something like fetus stem-cells depends on believing that it is a key to curing diseases. However, in the future knowledge might reveal that infant stem-cells are a red herring and it is adult stem-cells that are the proper target. So then that is focused on by policies. Then still later more knowledge might reveal a new technique to utilize fetus stem cells.[/b]

At any point, since the complete truth is not knowable, the scientist must have faith that the current point of view is the correct one. The only true difference between religious truth and scientific truth is that science is, at least in theory, a dynamic one.

Complete truth is a line, and science is an asymptote that moves ever closer to that line (hopefully), but which never intersects.[/quote]

To veer off onto this topic for a minute, there are currently no therapeutic methods being used based on infant stem cells. However, there is currently a successful method based on adult stem cells - leukemia treatment.

[Actium]

[quote name='Jason' post='501829' date='Jun 18 2007, 03:45 PM']Inherit the Wind.[/quote]

What he said.

[Actium]

[quote name='Jason' post='501834' date='Jun 18 2007, 03:48 PM']To veer off onto this topic for a minute, there are currently no therapeutic methods being used based on infant stem cells. However, there is currently a successful method based on adult stem cells - leukemia treatment.[/quote]

I knew it was something like that...

[Guest #22]

[quote name='Jason' post='501786' date='Jun 18 2007, 01:26 PM']Start with a finch, end with a finch.

There is a difference between a species adapting to its surroundings, and one species becoming another species.

Now, if a lizard had become a finch, you'd have an arguement.[/quote]
Right, but the species is undergoing great amounts of diversity in very short periods of time (half a dozen years, for example).
How old do you think the Earth is?

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='#22' post='502106' date='Jun 19 2007, 03:24 PM']Right, but the species is undergoing great amounts of diversity in very short periods of time (half a dozen years, for example).
How old do you think the Earth is?[/quote]
For folks who think the world was created in 6 days, a half-dozen years is an eternity.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='502122' date='Jun 19 2007, 09:16 AM']For folks who think the world was created in 6 days, a half-dozen years is an eternity.[/quote]
6 days in dog, er, God years.

[Nati Ice]

so i guess michael bloomberg isnt planning on seeking the gop nomination any time soon...

[url="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/06/18/politics/p153151D33.DTL&type=politics"]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...p;type=politics[/url]



sure wish hed announce an independent run about now

[Fanatical]

[quote name='Jason' post='501834' date='Jun 18 2007, 03:48 PM']To veer off onto this topic for a minute, there are currently no therapeutic methods being used based on infant stem cells. However, there is currently a successful method based on adult stem cells - leukemia treatment.[/quote]
Not yet. But research is being conducted to use embryonic derived stem cells to repair retinal tissue and cure blindness. Early test results on mice have been successful and tests are soon to begin on humans. Of course, this is not happening in the United States.
[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070605/sc_nm/stemcells_blindness_dc"]Scientists plan stem cell cure for blindness [/url]

And yes, we have seen species evolve into new ones. Humans themselves have used artificial selection to create domesticated crops and animals.

I will use the "atheist's nightmare" the banana as an example:

domesticated banana:
[img]http://www.essentialoil.in/images/banana.jpg[/img]

wild banana (note the seeds)
[img]http://www.apsnet.org/education/feature/banana/Images/Figure4.jpg[/img]

[The Scales]

"The deathless Self meditated upon
Himself and projected the Universe
as evolutionary energy.
From this energy developed life, mind,
The elements, and the world of Karma,
Which is enchained by cause and effect.

"The deathless Self sees all, knows all. From
him
Springs Brahma, who embodies the process
Of evolution into name and form
By which the One appears to be many."


And there you go

[Jason]

[quote name='Fanatical' post='502150' date='Jun 19 2007, 12:46 PM']Not yet. But research is being conducted to use embryonic derived stem cells to repair retinal tissue and cure blindness. Early test results on mice have been successful and tests are soon to begin on humans. Of course, this is not happening in the United States.
[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070605/sc_nm/stemcells_blindness_dc"]Scientists plan stem cell cure for blindness [/url]

And yes, we have seen species evolve into new ones. Humans themselves have used artificial selection to create domesticated crops and animals.

I will use the "atheist's nightmare" the banana as an example:

domesticated banana:
[img]http://www.essentialoil.in/images/banana.jpg[/img]

wild banana (note the seeds)
[img]http://www.apsnet.org/education/feature/banana/Images/Figure4.jpg[/img][/quote]

But wasn't there a guiding inteligence behind this????

[Jason]

[quote name='#22' post='502106' date='Jun 19 2007, 10:24 AM'][b]1.[/b] Right, but the species is undergoing great amounts of diversity in very short periods of time (half a dozen years, for example).
[b]2.[/b] How old do you think the Earth is?[/quote]

1. So it took about 6 years for the bird to change slightly? If you go with the scientific estimate for how long life has been on Earth, about 3.5 billion years, the Earth is not old enough for the several billion species of multi-cellular creatures (everything insect and above) to have formed. If you operate on the basis that changes of species are much more complex, and would therefore take longer to occur. If it takes 6 years for a finch to change to a different finch, how long does it take for a lizard to become a finch? (Using the belief that lizards evolved into birds - is that still the belief? It was the last time I studied evolution)

2. Why do you ask?

[Fanatical]

There was a guiding intelligence in the use of artificial selection, and evolution still occured which was the point of the post.

Life did not evolve past algae until some 500 million years ago, and has evolved through many mass extinctions. Birds are descendents of the dinosaurs, which in turn were descended from reptiles.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Jason' post='502235' date='Jun 19 2007, 03:31 PM']1. So it took about 6 years for the bird to change slightly? If you go with the scientific estimate for how long life has been on Earth, about 3.5 billion years, the Earth is not old enough for the several billion species of multi-cellular creatures (everything insect and above) to have formed. If you operate on the basis that changes of species are much more complex, and would therefore take longer to occur. If it takes 6 years for a finch to change to a different finch, how long does it take for a lizard to become a finch? (Using the belief that lizards evolved into birds - is that still the belief? It was the last time I studied evolution)[/quote]wait a second... so a finch can change into a completely different kind of finch within a 6 year time frame and you see that as being completely feasible, but the suggestion that a prehistoric lizard could have changed into a bird over a period of billions of years sounds completely preposterous? even with the corresponding fossil record?

am i reading this right?