Michael Moore Denied Entry into the NYSE

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center]



[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][color="#556B2F"][b] = I can say that "Sicko" is probably the greatest Documentary I have ever seen ... truly outstanding ![/center][/b][/color][/size][/font]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Illusion/everyother1mw-1.png[/img][/center]

[|Bunghole|]

When I read the thread title I thought "What, was he denied access because he couldn't fit through the metal detectors?"

Actually, I saw F 9/11 and didn't care for it much. I will also watch Sicko as well.
But what I really want is for him to make a movie about America's food gluttony....starring himself.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Illusion/SICK4.jpg[/img]



[img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Illusion/SICK2.jpg[/img]



[img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Illusion/SICK1.jpg[/img][/center]

[MULLY]

Japan has national health care. I think the last time I went to the hospital it cost me like 6 bucks.
MULLY
medicine is expensive though

[Nati Ice]

i like this version better...

[Lawman]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='505810' date='Jun 29 2007, 11:45 AM']Japan has national health care. I think the last time I went to the hospital it cost me like 6 bucks.
MULLY
medicine is expensive though[/quote]

Mully,

According to wiki: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care[/url]

[color="#000080"]In Japan, payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance program administered by local governments. Since 1973, all elderly persons have been covered by government-sponsored insurance.

[i]Apparently, there are actually several options to chose from.[/i]

Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice. In the early 1990s, there were more than 1,000 mental hospitals, 8,700 general hospitals, and 1,000 comprehensive hospitals with a total capacity of 1.5 million beds. Hospitals provided both out-patient and in-patient care. In addition, 79,000 clinics offered primarily out-patient services, and there were 48,000 dental clinics. Most physicians and hospitals sold medicine directly to patients, but there were 36,000 pharmacies where patients could purchase synthetic or herbal medication.

National health expenditures rose from about 1 trillion Yen in 1965 to nearly 20 trillion Yen in 1989, or from slightly more than 5% to more than 6% of Japan's national income. In addition to [b]cost-control problems[/b], the system was troubled with excessive paperwork, long waits to see physicians, assembly-line care for out-patients (because few facilities made appointments), over medication, and [b]abuse of the system because of low out-of-pocket costs to patients[/b]. Another problem is an [color="#000080"]uneven distribution of health personnel[/color], with cities favored over rural areas. Japan comes in at 1.98 physicians per 1000 and 7.79 nurses per 1000.[/color]

[Lawman]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='505791' date='Jun 29 2007, 10:35 AM']When I read the thread title I thought "What, was he denied access because he couldn't fit through the metal detectors?"

Actually, I saw F 9/11 and didn't care for it much. [b]I will also watch Sicko as well.[/b]
But what I really want is for him to make a movie about America's food gluttony....starring himself.[/quote]

[i]Bung,

Let us know when you see it (I'm not wasting my time) and I'll let you know how it was edited.

I'll provide you with the info he left out.

Before you go, read this.[/i]

[url="http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf"]http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf[/url]


[b]Five Myths of Socialized Medicine
John Goodman[/b]
[b]MYTH: “EQUAL ACCESS”[/b]

[color="#000080"]Perhaps no notion is more closely tied to national health insurance than the idea of
equal access to health care. Every prime minister of health in Britain, from the day
the National Health Service started, has said that is the primary goal of the NHS.
Similar things are said in Canada and in other countries.

The British government—unlike most other governments—studies the problem
from time to time to see what kind ofprogress they’re making. In 1980, they had
a major report that said, essentially:[/color]

[i]“We really haven’t made very much progress in achieving equality of access to health care in
our country. In fact, it looks like things are worse today, in 1980, than they were 30
years ago when the British National Health Service was started.”[/i]

[color="#000080"]Everybody deplored the results of that report, and they all promised to
do better. There were a lot of articles written, a lot of conferences,
and a lot of discussions. Another 10 years passed and they pondered another report, which
said that things had deteriorated further. Today we are long overdue for a third report, but no
one expects the situation to have improved.[/color]

[i]Moore could not have picked a better time.[/i]

[color="#000080"]It’s true that racial and Toronto and London people have a “right” to
health care, whereas in Dallas they do not. That is just not true.
If you’re a citizen of Canada, you don’t really have a right to
any particular health care service. You don’t have a right to
heart surgery. You don’t even have a right to a place
in the waiting line. If you’re the hundredth person waiting for heart surgery,
you’re not entitled to the hundredth surgery. Other people can and do get in ahead
of you. From time to time, even Americans go to Canada and jump
the queue, because Americans can do something that Canadians cannot—Americans
can pay for care.

Canadian hospitals love to admit American patients, because that
means cash into their budgets. The British government says that, at any
one time, there are about a million people waiting to get into hospitals. According to
the Fraser Institute, almost 900,000 Canadian patients are on the waiting list at any
point in time.

And, according to the New Zealand government, 90,000 people are on
the waiting lists there. Those people constitute only about 1 to 2 percent of the population in those countries,
but keep in mind that only about 15 percent of the population actually enters a hospital each year. Many of the people waiting
are waiting in pain. Many are risking their lives by waiting. And there is no market mechanism in these countries to get
care first to people who need it first.[/color]

[color="#000080"]I’m especially interested in the elderly, because I find that—not only in Britain
and Canada, but also in the United States—when people have to make decisions
about who is going to get care and who is not, they frequently choose the
younger patient. Surveys of the elderly show that senior citizens in the United
States say it’s much easier to get surgery , see doctors, see specialists, and enter hospitals,
than say seniors in other countries.[/color]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505883' date='Jun 29 2007, 01:55 PM'](I'm not wasting my time)[/quote]

[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]pity ... it is an amazing film and you might have actually learned something and had your horizons expanded. Oh well ... [/b][/size][/font]





[quote name='Lawman' post='505883' date='Jun 29 2007, 01:55 PM']and I'll let you know how it was edited.[/quote]

[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]Oh will you ? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//37.gif[/img] I can't wait to see what copy and pasted info from "your girl" or Rush Limbaugh's site you have next.










.... The cocksuckers from the CATO institute [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

Yeah I really want to look to a group that would let Rupert Murdoch on their board of directors
[/b][/size][/font]

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505863' date='Jun 29 2007, 06:17 PM']Mully,

According to wiki: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care[/url]

[color="#000080"]In Japan, payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance program administered by local governments. Since 1973, all elderly persons have been covered by government-sponsored insurance.

[i]Apparently, there are actually several options to chose from.[/i]

Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice. In the early 1990s, there were more than 1,000 mental hospitals, 8,700 general hospitals, and 1,000 comprehensive hospitals with a total capacity of 1.5 million beds. Hospitals provided both out-patient and in-patient care. In addition, 79,000 clinics offered primarily out-patient services, and there were 48,000 dental clinics. Most physicians and hospitals sold medicine directly to patients, but there were 36,000 pharmacies where patients could purchase synthetic or herbal medication.

National health expenditures rose from about 1 trillion Yen in 1965 to nearly 20 trillion Yen in 1989, or from slightly more than 5% to more than 6% of Japan's national income. In addition to [b]cost-control problems[/b], the system was troubled with excessive paperwork, long waits to see physicians, assembly-line care for out-patients (because few facilities made appointments), over medication, and [b]abuse of the system because of low out-of-pocket costs to patients[/b]. Another problem is an [color="#000080"]uneven distribution of health personnel[/color], with cities favored over rural areas. Japan comes in at 1.98 physicians per 1000 and 7.79 nurses per 1000.[/color][/quote]
You fucking amaze me... You're going to post some article, to tell MULLY what how health care system HE USES, in THE COUNTRY HE ACTUALLY LIVES IN, works? You are a piece of work. Really.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]I really believe this movie has the power to wake up America ... and regain our Health Care industry back from the vultures who run it now.


Our Healthcare ranks right above Slovenia and of the top 25 Industrial nations in the World = 24 have socialized medicine.


The same people who would never think of socializing the fire department for profit ... somehow are ok with privitizing the Health Care industry and it is not working. almost 50 million Americans are without Healthcare while we drop 1 trillion dollars on a War in Iraq - it is a fucking joke ... [/b][/size][/font]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="#2F4F4F"][font="Arial Narrow"][size=3]

[b]Some great parts from the Movie ... (Possible spoilers)


- The sick American woman finds out in Cuba that she can but her 120 $ medication in the U.S. for 5 cents in Havana.

- Moore finds out that the guy who runs the largest Anti Moore site is going to have to shut down ironically because he wife is ill ... so Moore sends him an anonymous 12,000 $ check to take care of his wife so that he can continue to run his Anti Moore site. [u]CAN YOU SAY PWNED ! So AWESOME ![/u]

- Moore is shocked to find out in England that you not only don't pay for Medical care ... but as you leave they hand you cash for your cab ride home.

- Moore is shocked to find out in France that a man gets a 3 month paid vacation from the govt to head down to the Beaches on the Coast to "clear his mind and heal himself". Also the women get nannies after giving birth if they need them to work in the home and cook do laundry ... and all women get a year paid vacation after giving birth. Not to mention the Dr's will drive to your house to check on you if you have a cold. HOW AWESOME IS THAT SHIT !

- This American woman actually sneaks into Canada for treatment at their free hospitals. Cool clip.

- His depiction of how America Views Cuba as the land of Satan is hilarious. I also love how he interviews Che Guevara's daughter.

- It is great how Americans in France talk about how they could never imagine coming back to America. Can't blame them ... and after I finish my degree (and rack up my student loans) I will probably join them. [/b][/size][/font][/color]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='505901' date='Jun 29 2007, 02:38 PM']You fucking amaze me... You're going to post some article, to tell MULLY what how health care system HE USES, in THE COUNTRY HE ACTUALLY LIVES IN, works? You are a piece of work. Really.[/quote]


[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]You have to remember ... the Propaganda matrix here in the States is very insidious and once it has a hold of your brain ... it is damn near impossible to free yourself from it.

The indoctrination that his mind has undertaken would take years to deprogram ... and the necessary cognitive dissonance that would take place as he was being freed from it - would probably be enough to drive him to suicide.

So shift your anger to pity. [/b][/size][/font]

[Lawman]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='505901' date='Jun 29 2007, 02:38 PM']You fucking amaze me... [b]You're going to post some article, to tell MULLY what how health care system HE USES, in THE COUNTRY HE ACTUALLY LIVES IN, works? [/b]You are a piece of work. Really.[/quote]

[i]Get a clue. I presented what was offered/available in Japan; to illustrate other options.[/i]

[Lawman]

[quote].... The cocksuckers from the CATO institute

Yeah I really want to look to a group that would let Rupert Murdoch on their board of directors[/quote]

[i]Again, BJ is unable to refute information presented with any substantial argument, so he avoids it completely.[/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505922' date='Jun 29 2007, 03:12 PM'][i]Again, BJ is unable to refute information presented with any substantial argument, so he avoids it completely.[/i][/quote]


[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]Where is the original source for that information ... how do I know the dipshit just didn't pull it from his ass like most of the other shit you post ?

Should I waste time refuting every load of steaming crap you copy and paste on here ?

Hell you won't even "waste your time" watching Sicko ... why not ? Afriad it may challenge your beliefs ? I read your whole article and I don't fear any of the ideas you post on here. Hell I made similar arguments years back when I lacked higher education and didn't know what in the fuck I was talking about.

I will let the crap info and source speak for itself and give you a pat on the head. [/b][/size][/font]

[Lawman]

[quote]pity ... it is an amazing film and you might have actually learned something and had your horizons expanded. Oh well ...[/quote]

Actually, Isaid that because I know I would come away feeling cheated only paying for half a movie; not getting
all the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4u5x9XAsAs"]OTHER[/url] stuff he will leave out.

[color="#000080"]Hi,

I’m French and I’ve been living in California since 1997. I just saw Sicko and that’s how I discovered your site. I did not read all your posts so I don’t know if you already covered this topic but:

In the movie, when Moore goes to France you can see him visit a “average family” in a nice apartment. I believe his exact words are (talking about free healthcare): “How do they pay for all this? And then I realized that they’re drowning in taxes. I want to see the effect that might have on an average class family.”

Then we learn that the two parents Moore is visiting are making between €6,000 and €7,500 per month, which is between €72,000 and €90,000 per year. [Note from Lee—as of today’s exchange rate $1 is worth €0.74. Therefore a person making €90,000 is making roughly $120,000 a year.)

[u]Now here you have the official statistics from the French government. You can see that on average a French women is making €19,182 ($25,778) per year, and that a French man is making €23,778 ($31,955) per year. The average couple (assuming that both parents are working) would then earn a combined €42,960 ($57,738) per year. [/u]

[b]That’s HALF of what Moore’s “average” family is making.[/b]

[b]Nobody’s primary expense in France is “fish”, “vegetable” and “vacations.” Moore’s “average family” example is totally FALSE and MISLEADING. [/b]

I don’t have any problem with FREE HEALTHCARE, FREE “MAID”, FREE SCHOOL, etc but you have to tell the truth to people. Someone at some point have to pay for those free things.

France’s budget has been in deficit EVERY year in the past 25 years (even during dot com boom). Look at this graph. [/color]

[img]http://moorewatch.com/images/uploads/evolution_dette_1.jpg[/img]

[color="#000080"]Sales tax are 19.6% and don’t get me started on payroll taxes, income tax, toll on the freeway ... etc

Even worse: even with the highest taxes in the world, France still can’t pay for free healthcare, free school, etc ... so France has to borrow money .... and here comes the debt (which was a huge topic the past election year).

Because France is now so much in debt (by the way this debt is own at 60% by foreign persons/entities), the reimbursement of the INTEREST of the debt is the second biggest expense in it’s budget. We’re not even talking about reimbursement of the debt itself, but just the interest. So in 2005, 14.6% of the budget was used to pay the interest of the debt. This expense is larger than what France spends on national defense.

And this debt is not going to stop ... because you just can’t eat your cake and have it too ...

[b]But I guess Moore just forgot about that ..[/b].[/color]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505925' date='Jun 29 2007, 03:21 PM']I’m French and I’ve been living in California since 1997.[/quote]


[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

you kill me ... I guess I will just have to laugh at you from now on.

That (unsited on your part) bullshit you just posted [url="http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php"]CRAP[/url] was from MOOREWATCH. Run by the douchebag who Moore himself sent 12 K to take care of his wife because she couldn't afford her medical bills in the US.

The irony is that the propoganda you just posted only exists because of Moore's generousity and that kind of irony can't be bought.

Also it is posted from a guy Lee with no source. There is no way to tell if the letter is actually even one sent to them ... and not just made up by them and then posted on their message board. [/b][/size][/font]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505925' date='Jun 29 2007, 03:21 PM']Actually, I said that because I know I would come away feeling cheated only paying for half a movie; not getting
all the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4u5x9XAsAs"]OTHER[/url] stuff he will leave out.[/quote]


[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]So instead you only watch and read the 2nd half (the crap you already agree with)

yeah some rationalization. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//37.gif[/img] [/b][/size][/font]

[Lawman]

Where is the original source for that information ... how do I know the dipshit just didn't pull it from [u]his ass like most of the other shit you post [/u]?

[url="http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/"]http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/[/url]

[color="#000080"]Michael Moore didn't want me to see "SiCKO," his pro-socialist, anti-private health care documentary. If you know anything about health care systems, he didn't want you to see it either. At least, not at first.

In the beginning, the only people allowed to view the film were reviewers who knew nothing about the subject. The apparent theory was: get it reviewed by people unlikely to spot all the errors and omissions before you open it to more discerning viewers.

The movie is full of errors and omissions, but that is almost beside the point. Since the whole purpose of the film is to compare the worst features of American health care with the best features of health care in Britain, Canada, France and even Cuba (!), who can complain about a few errors here and there?

The mistake reviewers are making is in thinking this is a movie about health care. It isn't. There is no attempt to objectively compare the merits and demerits of different health care systems. There are no interviews with any health policy experts. There is not a single, practical proposal any politician could adopt.

So what is the film about? It's about psychology. It is a perfect-storm intersection of three phenomena: left-wing politics, health care altruism and Hollywood. Here is what I mean.

The one thing that unites left-wing political movements all over the world, regardless of their differences and idiosyncrasies, is the belief that incentives do not matter. One and all, they believe that people at the top can formulate a plan that will be successfully carried out by people at the bottom, even when it is manifestly not in their self-interest to do so.

In my book, Regulation of Medical Care (Cato Institute, 1980), I described how organized medicine replaced for-profit institutions with nonprofit institutions in first half of the 20th century. First came medical schools, then hospitals, then insurance companies - until the only people left who were making a profit were doctors themselves. At the time, I implied that the motive behind all this was pecuniary. Since then I have discovered that there are an enormous number of people in the health care community who believe that incentives should not matter. To them, health care without altruism is a contradiction in terms.

The prevailing view in Hollywood is that incentives will not matter in a just society, if only people care enough. The song says it best: "All you need is love."

What is the one thing all three groups have in common? Rejection of the idea of incentives. Since economics is the science of incentives, this implies the rejection of economics. (To paraphrase Moore: Incentives are about "I"; the focus instead should be on "we.")

All three groups are divorced from reality to one degree or another. That is, when you are around them you are unlikely to hear about any of the principles you learned in Economics 101. However, Hollywood takes the rejection of reality to a whole new level.

Economists, like other scientists, study reality in order to adapt to it. Artists, by contrast, selectively focus on some facts and ignore others in order to recreate reality. For some, this subjective recreation doesn't cease just because the camera has stopped rolling. They keep right on going until the world they are living in becomes unrecognizable to the rest of us. (Rosie O'Donnell and Charlie Sheen come to mind.) I'm not sure if there is a technical term for this disorder. If not, I nominate the term, "Jane Fonda Syndrome."

For Michael Moore, the real tip-off is the trip to Cuba. Understand: No rational proponent of national health insurance would ever bring up Cuba. In the very act of bringing it up, he is telling us - in the only way he knows how to tell us - this film is not about health care. It's about Michael.

Sure there are good doctors in Cuba. It's also true that the average Cuban has to bring his own soap and bed sheets when he enters a hospital. What kind of mind would focus on one fact and ignore the other? A mind that thinks if he recreates the Cuban health care system on film, it will become reality.

But the fantasy doesn't end there. By implication, Moore is recreating all of Cuban society. If there is one fact all the rest of us know - indeed, almost everyone else in the whole world knows - it is this: If someone like Michael Moore actually lived in Cuba, he would be in prison in a matter of weeks. And his biggest problem would not be health care. It would be torture.

So what kind of mind are we talking about here? I don't think I want to go there.

For a comprehensive look at how the health care systems of Britain, Canada and other countries really work, see Lives at Risk, available at [url="http://www.ncpa.org/pub/lives_risk.htm"]http://www.ncpa.org/pub/lives_risk.htm[/url].

Here are a few links for your viewing pleasure.

The trailer for "Shooting Michael Moore," a film by Kevin Leffler exploring who Michael Moore is and what motivates his filmmaking and political position.

The trailer for "Sick and Sicker," a film by Logan Darrow Clements, exposing the Canadian health care system. Look for me at the 2:39 mark.[/color]

BJ, Moores agenda is lock and step with the [url="http://www.americandaughter.com/index.html?http://frontpage.americandaughter.com/?p=923"]The Cloward-Piven Strategy[/url].

[Lawman]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='505933' date='Jun 29 2007, 03:33 PM'][font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]So instead you only watch and read the 2nd half (the crap you already agree with)

yeah some rationalization. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//37.gif[/img] [/b][/size][/font][/quote]

No, I prefer to see [url="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://helenwang.rdvp.org/goodlife/uploaded_images/Tao_YinYangEarth2_1_-748518.jpg&imgrefurl=http://helenwang.rdvp.org/goodlife/2006/02/two-sides-of-one-coin.html&h=198&w=200&sz=10&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=f92kF89imr-NFM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtwo%2Bsides%2Bof%2Ba%2Bcoin%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enUS226US227"]both sides of the coin[/url][/url].

[img]http://helenwang.rdvp.org/goodlife/uploaded_images/Tao_YinYangEarth2_1_-748518.jpg[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505938' date='Jun 29 2007, 03:39 PM']Where is the original source for that information ... how do I know the dipshit just didn't pull it from [u]his ass like most of the other shit you post [/u]?

[url="http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/"]http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/[/url][/quote]

[font="Arial Narrow"]
[size=3][b][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

you really are hilarious.


I ask for the source of the guys crap facts ... and you give me his blog where he still doesn't cite any of the information he makes up. Then the link he does give is to a bullshit Cato institute think tank where you can buy his book. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/37.gif[/img]


It amazes me that people like you are so quick to defend a system that probably shits on you as well. The problem is that you are like an abused wife ... you don't know that other wives on the block are not being beaten and that it is not normal.

The American way of doing Healthcare is not normal in the Western World and is total crap. Hence why our life expectancy is so low ... and our infant mortality doesn't even beat some 3rd world countries.

But then again I doubt you use your passport to actually leave the good ol USA so stay at home with your husband ... and put some makeup on that black eye. [/b][/size][/font]

[Quaker]

...Donkeys have an agenda! OMG! Elephants have an agenda! OMG! Seriously.

[Lawman]

[quote]Also it is posted from a guy Lee with no source. There is no way to tell if the letter is actually even one sent to them ... and not just made up by them and then posted on their message board.[/quote]

[color="#000080"][b]In the movie[/b], when Moore goes to France you can see him visit a “average family” in a nice apartment. I believe his exact words are (talking about free healthcare): “How do they pay for all this? And then I realized that they’re drowning in taxes. I want to see the effect that might have on an average class family.”

Then we learn that the two parents Moore is visiting are making between €6,000 and €7,500 per month, which is between €72,000 and €90,000 per year. [Note from Lee—as of today’s exchange rate $1 is worth €0.74. Therefore a person making €90,000 is making roughly $120,000 a year.)

Now here you have the official statistics from the French government. You can see that on average a French women is making €19,182 ($25,778) per year, and that a French man is making €23,778 ($31,955) per year. The average couple (assuming that both parents are working) would then earn a combined €42,960 ($57,738) per year.

That’s HALF of what Moore’s “average” family is making.[/color]

[i]So, is this in the movie or not? A simple [b]yes[/b] or [b]no[/b] answer will suffice.[/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Lawman' post='505951' date='Jun 29 2007, 04:02 PM'][i]So, is this in the movie or not? A simple [b]yes[/b] or [b]no[/b] answer will suffice.[/i][/quote]

[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]I notice your letter omits the word "middle" before class and instead uses "average". I know why they did it ... to make their argument stronger. Moore says he is visiting a Middle class family ... which by the numbers in France they would be seen as Middle class. The numbers are also skewed because Frances GNI is 34,810 $ [url="http://www.doingbusiness.org/ExploreEconomies/?economyid=70"]LINK[/url] not the lower figures stated there.

Nevertheless that is irrelevant ... Moore does not portray the family as "Average" ... however he does use them as an example of a couple in France in the middle of the income bracket. [/b][/size][/font]