Homer_Rice Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506883' date='Jul 2 2007, 08:54 PM']Just because YOU were the stereotypical squid that everyone expects squids to be, don't try to throw that blanket over us all. I didn't think that I'd have to clarify that my comment you quoted wasn't directed at you... but I can see that I assumed you were smarter than you are. You are right though, THAT wouldn't qualify me as an expert on anything... that's why I'm NOT using that as my basis for my experience. Living in the foreign lands and experiencing their ways, and having friends who live their and are from there is where I start to garner my opinions. Tell you what... just read my sig & apply it to yourself.[/quote] Not sure which phrase you are suggesting. If it's the STFU part, all I can say is . If it's the "think..." part, all I can say is that my track record here speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506883' date='Jul 2 2007, 06:54 PM'][b]Just because YOU were the stereotypical squid that everyone expects squids to be, don't try to throw that blanket over us all. I didn't think that I'd have to clarify that my comment you quoted wasn't directed at you... but I can see that I assumed you were smarter than you are.[/b] You are right though, THAT wouldn't qualify me as an expert on anything... that's why I'm NOT using that as my basis for my experience. Living in the foreign lands and experiencing their ways, and having friends who live their and are from there is where I start to garner my opinions. Tell you what... just read my sig & apply it to yourself.[/quote] His assumption was a blanket one, and he wasn't the stereotypical squid either. He is a smart dude with some serious wisdom, but I agree that he miscalculated in this instance. I'm sure when and if he sees your response, he will respond like a gentleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'll just say that anyone who doesn't see Michael Moore for the used car salesmen (my apologies to used car salesmen) that he is, is pretty gullible at the least. Is some of what he says true? Of course. If he's your source for how things are, and how they should be though, you really need to get some perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Whoops, too late. I guess it's on now. And between two squids that should be comparing homosexual experiences in close quarters, too. A pity. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='506898' date='Jul 2 2007, 07:28 PM']I'll just say that anyone who doesn't see Michael Moore for the used car salesmen (my apologies to used car salesmen) that he is, is pretty gullible at the least. Is some of what he says true? Of course. If he's your source for how things are, and how they should be though, you really need to get some perspective.[/quote] I agree. I've stayed out of this with knowledge afore that Moore is a sensatioanlist that will only represent factual information in a way that supports his beliefs. I will say though, I watched him being interviewed by Larry King last night and if what he says is heartfelt and true (!!!???), SOME of the statements he proclaimed were pretty damn hard to argue with. I do believe that we need some kind of standardized healthcare for the masses that is taxpayer funded. How it's implemented in the face of the HMO and pharmaceutical powers that be is the grey area. I think we should have doctors that do a rotation in free healthcare hospitals much like attorneys are required to do as public defendants, and it isn't like they wouldn't get paid pretty well. That way, we can at least guarantee our quality of care to a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='506902' date='Jul 2 2007, 09:33 PM']I agree. I've stayed out of this with knowledge afore that Moore is a sensatioanlist that will only represent factual information in a way that supports his beliefs. I will say though, I watched him being interviewed by Larry King last night and if what he says is heartfelt and true (!!!???), SOME of the statements he proclaimed were pretty damn hard to argue with. I do believe that we need some kind of standardized healthcare for the masses that is taxpayer funded. How it's implemented in the face of the HMO and pharmaceutical powers that be is the grey area. I think we should have doctors that do a rotation in free healthcare hospitals much like attorneys are required to do as public defendants, and it isn't like they wouldn't get paid pretty well. That way, we can at least guarantee our quality of care to a degree.[/quote] I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of regulation, but I don't want the government "running" health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='506905' date='Jul 2 2007, 07:40 PM']I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of regulation, but I don't want the government "running" health care.[/quote] What exactly is the difference between the govt "regulating" something and them "running" it? Doesn't one necessarily imply the other? Now, don't get me wrong, I empathize with exactly what you are saying, but I think that healthcare for everyone is ONE thing that a taxpayer funded, government ran industry can possibly get right over time. If other countries can do it, so can we. And why not? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='506910' date='Jul 2 2007, 09:46 PM']What exactly is the difference between the govt "regulating" something and them "running" it? Doesn't one necessarily imply the other? Now, don't get me wrong, I empathize with exactly what you are saying, but I think that healthcare for everyone is ONE thing that a taxpayer funded, government ran industry can possibly get right over time. If other countries can do it, so can we. And why not? Why not?[/quote] Other countries are socialist. We're not. Yet. The government regulates things now that it doesn't run. I'm saying there should be a profit percentage cap on medicines, hospital rooms, insurance rates, different procedures, etcetera. Along with tort reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='506913' date='Jul 2 2007, 07:58 PM']Other countries are socialist. We're not. Yet. The government regulates things now that it doesn't run. I'm saying there should be a profit percentage cap on medicines, hospital rooms, insurance rates, different procedures, etcetera. Along with tort reform.[/quote] Do we have to be considered socialist to have a govt-funded healthcare system that provides simply a minimum level of care for the uninsured and those that run afoul of insurance companies? Isn't the welfare system we have already enough to make us considered socialist? I would scrap most of welfare except for the indigent, infirm and mentally ill in a SECOND for some type of a doable healthcare plan that at least gave lower income families a way to get basic care without fear of accumulating gigantic debts to a system that already doesn't work and is favorable only to those with money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='506916' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:07 PM']Do we have to be considered socialist to have a govt-funded healthcare system that provides simply a minimum level of care for the uninsured and those that run afoul of insurance companies? Isn't the welfare system we have already enough to make us considered socialist? I would scrap most of welfare except for the indigent, infirm and mentally ill in a SECOND for some type of a doable healthcare plan that at least gave lower income families a way to get basic care without fear of accumulating gigantic debts to a system that already doesn't work and is favorable only to those with money.[/quote] Does our health care system have to be government funded to be improved? Things that are ran and funded by the government have proven to be cluster-fucks for the most part, and I don't think health care would be any different. Our welfare system is (meant to be) a safety net for those who have no other means for food and shelter. While that may be a socialist type of idea, no that doesn't make us a socialist country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='506922' date='Jul 2 2007, 08:19 PM']Does our health care system have to be government funded to be improved? [b]Things that are ran and funded by the government have proven to be cluster-fucks for the most part[/b], and I don't think health care would be any different. [i]Like how we pay for road construction/improvements?[/i] [b]Our welfare system is (meant to be) a safety net for those who have no other means for food and shelter[/b]. While that may be a socialist type of idea, no that doesn't make us a socialist country.[/quote] And yet it's used and abused as a disincentive for immoral behavior. Having viewed firstahnd the detrimental effects of that type of a social welfare program in Germany, I can tell you that it breeds an atmosphere of lazy hand outs. That is exactly why our welfare system sucks. We reward bad behavior instead of positive behavior. There is no pride in welfare recipients that don't deserve it, and they don't care as long as the checks are flowing. I honestly think that if the best we have in political thinking come together that an honest basic healthcare program can be devised that would assist many, many people, and that by doing that, we could still be a capitalist country, if that really means anything anymore. We need to look out for our own first and foremost, and we have failed at that. There has to be a better way to incentivize good behavior, regular doctor visits, education, etc. In the long run, that will lower tax costs for ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='506926' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:29 PM']And yet it's used and abused as a disincentive for immoral behavior. Having viewed firstahnd the detrimental effects of that type of a social welfare program in Germany, I can tell you that it breeds an atmosphere of lazy hand outs. That is exactly why our welfare system sucks. We reward bad behavior instead of positive behavior. There is no pride in welfare recipients that don't deserve it, and they don't care as long as the checks are flowing. I honestly think that if the best we have in political thinking come together that an honest basic healthcare program can be devised that would assist many, many people, and that by doing that, we could still be a capitalist country, if that really means anything anymore. We need to look out for our own first and foremost, and we have failed at that. There has to be a better way to incentivize good behavior, regular doctor visits, education, etc. In the long run, that will lower tax costs for ALL.[/quote] The only thing I would argue on that is your last line, at least as it relates to socialized health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Homer_Rice' post='506893' date='Jul 2 2007, 09:17 PM']Not sure which phrase you are suggesting. If it's the STFU part, all I can say is . If it's the "think..." part, all I can say is that my track record here speaks for itself.[/quote] Yeah... I jumped a bit harsh brother. My bad & my apologies... I've read your takes many times & you've got damn good insight. I have this pet peeve about stereotyping... oh well, I guess that's kinda obvious now isn't it? Don't know if you got out before I joined ('83 - '03)... but I damn sure won't put up with someone named BUNGHOLE trying to start a pissing contest between 2 of the Navys finest!!!! I mean... cmon... BUNGHOLE? Michael Moore DOES have solid points, but even he doesn't realize that if you want to do it right and look like you've got a shred of credibility... then maybe you shouldn't be raking in the multi-millions to "make your point". Socialized medicine is not the answer, but it IS better than the shit we have here in America now. I've got MANY horror stories that would fill volumes about the wreck that is our healthcare system and insurance system. Your last take bung said it perfectly... but the biggest opponents are the capitalistic insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies, and of course the doctors who would fight it like all hell. Something needs to be done, or all hell will break out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='506930' date='Jul 2 2007, 08:37 PM']The only thing I would argue on that is your last line, at least as it relates to socialized health care.[/quote] As i said, you phase out welfare for those whom really don't need it, divert those funds towards healthcare, possibly raise taxes a little or find another ineffective program to slash, and you've created the funding. And by BASIC helathcare, I mean a BASIC system that will provide for minimum quality of life requirements, and have it set up so it cannot be hijacked or abused in any way. Make the stipulations clear. Broken bones, heart surgeries, etc, yes....tummy tucks, anything cosmetic, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='506933' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:41 PM']As i said, you phase out welfare for those whom really don't need it, divert those funds towards healthcare, possibly raise taxes a little or find another ineffective program to slash, and you've created the funding. And by BASIC helathcare, I mean a BASIC system that will provide for minimum quality of life requirements, and have it set up so it cannot be hijacked or abused in any way. Make the stipulations clear. Broken bones, heart surgeries, etc, yes....tummy tucks, anything cosmetic, no.[/quote] I think you're underestimating the costs of healthcare. The crazy thing is, if you're on welfare, you get better medical care than if you're working poor. That is what I think we all want to rectify, we just disagree on the best way to go about doing it. In this country, everyone who is trying their hardest to be a productive, contributing member of society should be able to go to a doctor if they need to. As I said, I'm not opposed to some common sense regulation, I just don't think putting the government in charge is the way to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='506937' date='Jul 2 2007, 08:56 PM'][b]I think you're underestimating the costs of healthcare[/b]. The crazy thing is, if you're on welfare, you get better medical care than if you're working poor. That is what I think we all want to rectify, we just disagree on the best way to go about doing it. In this country, everyone who is trying their hardest to be a productive, contributing member of society should be able to go to a doctor if they need to. As I said, I'm not opposed to some common sense regulation, I just don't think putting the government in charge is the way to fix it.[/quote] Maybe. But for such a rich country that likes to decry the human rights violations of other countries (even though we committed them ourselves as recently as the 1960's), I honestly believe and wish that besides our enormous financial contributions to the benefit of other countries, that we would set more of an example of caring for our own citizens for the world (and for ourselves) than we do now. I am serious. This can be done, especially if we can tighten immigration for illegals that would/could sap the new system, crack down in a big way on welfare handouts, etc. I would also be in favor of limiting tax benefits to, ahem, "Native Americans". There is simply no reason that in the 21st century that we need to be subsidizing a whole people like we do now. I know, I am an asshole, but why do we make a special case out of 4th generation-removed Indians so they can own vast tracts of duty-free land and build tax free casinos while we do not grant the same "rights" to 4th generation removed black slaves? Hmmmm? I didn't mean to play the race card, I'm just floundering against the almighty BB here....HELP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506668' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM']have YOU talked to families in those countries and asked them what THEY really think about their healthcare system?[/quote] [b]Yes ... many times. Every single one of them says they would never trade it for the US model. [/b] [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506668' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM']Ever been to ANY of those countries?[/quote] [b]Yes. [/b] [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506668' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM']Seen what their standards of living are like?[/quote] [b]Yes. [/b] [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506668' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM']Know how much their taxes are? Gas prices? Unemployment?[/quote] [b]Yes. Yes. Yes. [/b] [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506668' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM']Do YOU actually believe all of the things you see in his movies BJ?[/quote] [b]All of them. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/37.gif[/img] [/b] [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506668' date='Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM']THAT young?[/quote] [b]The error of age is to believe experience is a substitute for intelligence.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='507030' date='Jul 3 2007, 05:17 AM'][b]Yes ... many times. Every single one of them says they would never trade it for the US model. [/b] [b]Yes. [/b] [b]Yes. [/b] [b]Yes. Yes. Yes. [/b] [b]All of them. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/37.gif[/img] [/b] [b]The error of age is to believe experience is a substitute for intelligence.[/b][/quote] The error of youth is to assume that schooling means intelligence... You keep on using that word yes, I do not think it means what you think it means... [img]http://i3.okoun.cz/ico/473/2/indigo_montoya.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='506932' date='Jul 2 2007, 08:40 PM']Don't know if you got out before I joined ('83 - '03)... [b]but I damn sure won't put up with someone named BUNGHOLE trying to start a pissing contest between 2 of the Navys finest!!!! [/b] I mean... cmon... BUNGHOLE?[/quote] Hey! You started it, I merely commented that the Navy was gay.... ...which, coming from an Army vet like myself, you should completely understand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='507046' date='Jul 3 2007, 08:01 AM']Hey! You started it, I merely commented that the Navy was gay.... ...which, coming from an Army vet like myself, you should completely understand.... [/quote] Oh... an Army vet... that explains it all. It especially explains your fondness for bunghole and we all know how much the army guys like the Big Red 1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='507053' date='Jul 3 2007, 06:44 AM']Oh... an Army vet... that explains it all. It especially explains your fondness for bunghole and we all know how much the army guys like the Big Red 1! [/quote] [b]Bunghole[/b] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search This article is about the hole in a barrel; for slang use see Bunghole (slang) A bunghole is a hole bored in a liquid-tight barrel. The hole is capped with a large cork-like object called a bung. Bungholes were first used on wooden barrels, and were typically bored by the purchaser of the barrel using a brace and bit. Bungholes can be bored in either head (end) of a barrel or in one of the staves (side). With the bung removed, a tapered faucet can be attached to aid with dispensing. When barrels full of a commodity were shipped, the recipient would often bore new bungholes of the most suitable size and placement rather than remove the existing bung. Wooden barrels manufactured by specialty firms today usually are bored by the maker with suitable bungholes, since the hobbyists who purchase them for the making of beer, wine, and fermented foods often do not have a suitable brace and bit. Closed-head steel barrels and drums now used for shipment of chemicals and petroleum products have a standardized bunghole arrangement, with one 2" NPT and one 3/4" NPT threaded bunghole on opposite sides of the top head. Some steel barrels are also equipped with a 2" threaded bunghole on the side. In his work, Hamlet, William Shakespeare makes a passing reference to bungholes, as Hamlet contemplates the skull of his old friend Yorick, and how even such high mortals as Alexander the Great must inevitably return to lowly dust: [i]Hamlet: To what base uses we may return, Horatio! Why may not imagination trace the noble dust of Alexander, till he find it stopping a bung-hole? Horatio: 'Twere to consider too curiously, to consider so. Hamlet: No, faith, not a jot; but to follow him thither with modesty enough, and likelihood to lead it: as thus: Alexander died, Alexander was buried, Alexander returneth into dust; the dust is earth; of earth we make loam; and why of that loam, whereto he was converted, might they not stop a beer-barrel?[/i] [b]It also used to be my favorite nickname for the Bengals in the 1990's....[/b] [b]And let's be real here....Army guys sleep in their OWN tent, and have access to girls fairly regularly. Navy guys share beds and are out to sea for months at a time....you do the math.... And just to be fair, then there's the Marines, the gayest of them all.... (I have a really good friend whom is a Marine, and this gayer than thou conversation has gone on forever between us...)[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='507076' date='Jul 3 2007, 10:53 AM'][b]Bunghole[/b] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search This article is about the hole in a barrel; for slang use see Bunghole (slang) A bunghole is a hole bored in a liquid-tight barrel. The hole is capped with a large cork-like object called a bung. Bungholes were first used on wooden barrels, and were typically bored by the purchaser of the barrel using a brace and bit. Bungholes can be bored in either head (end) of a barrel or in one of the staves (side). With the bung removed, a tapered faucet can be attached to aid with dispensing. When barrels full of a commodity were shipped, the recipient would often bore new bungholes of the most suitable size and placement rather than remove the existing bung. Wooden barrels manufactured by specialty firms today usually are bored by the maker with suitable bungholes, since the hobbyists who purchase them for the making of beer, wine, and fermented foods often do not have a suitable brace and bit. Closed-head steel barrels and drums now used for shipment of chemicals and petroleum products have a standardized bunghole arrangement, with one 2" NPT and one 3/4" NPT threaded bunghole on opposite sides of the top head. Some steel barrels are also equipped with a 2" threaded bunghole on the side. In his work, Hamlet, William Shakespeare makes a passing reference to bungholes, as Hamlet contemplates the skull of his old friend Yorick, and how even such high mortals as Alexander the Great must inevitably return to lowly dust: [i]Hamlet: To what base uses we may return, Horatio! Why may not imagination trace the noble dust of Alexander, till he find it stopping a bung-hole? Horatio: 'Twere to consider too curiously, to consider so. Hamlet: No, faith, not a jot; but to follow him thither with modesty enough, and likelihood to lead it: as thus: Alexander died, Alexander was buried, Alexander returneth into dust; the dust is earth; of earth we make loam; and why of that loam, whereto he was converted, might they not stop a beer-barrel?[/i] [b]It also used to be my favorite nickname for the Bengals in the 1990's....[/b] [b]And let's be real here....Army guys sleep in their OWN tent, and have access to girls fairly regularly. Navy guys share beds and are out to sea for months at a time....you do the math.... And just to be fair, then there's the Marines, the gayest of them all.... (I have a really good friend whom is a Marine, and this gayer than thou conversation has gone on forever between us...)[/b] [/quote] Now let's be totally honest... we have women on ships now, and have had them for quite a while. While I still like our passengers (Marines) we really have to be fair and tell it like it is... the gayest SOB's are the Air Farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [b]Since you grunts are hijacking the thread ... [/b] [quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='507085' date='Jul 3 2007, 11:27 AM']the gayest SOB's are the Air Farce.[/quote] [b][u]Ranked by intelligence & value [/u] 1. Air Force * 2. Marines 3. Navy 4. Army 5. Coast Guard [size=1][i]* As someone who grew up on Air Force bases (populated with all of the services) and has an entire family of Military in all branches (I am the black sheep) [/b][/i][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='507110' date='Jul 3 2007, 12:55 PM'][b]Since you grunts are hijacking the thread ... [/b] [b][u]Ranked by intelligence & value [/u] 1. Air Force * [color="#FF0000"]2. Marines[/color] 3. Navy 4. Army 5. Coast Guard [size=1][i]* As someone who grew up on Air Force bases (populated with all of the services) and has an entire family of Military in all branches (I am the black sheep) [/b][/i][/size][/quote] As an army brat, ill keep my bias out of it. And say I agree with this list except the Marines, they should be #4 and the rest bumped up. Unless you concider the fact that the marines dont exist as their own faction and are really just a subset of the navy, then Army would be above navy because the jarheads are bringing them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 HAH!!! Now I've got you BJ, and there's no way in hell you can back out of/squirm out of this one... You actually associated the terms Intelligence & Value with ALL of the armed services, which are an arm of the government... therefore you are calling the government intelligent & valuable! You sick bastard!!! As someone who served with ALL the armed services all across this planet, I can rank them honestly and without bias as to their value and intelligence; 1) Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Marines, Navy Great people across the board in them all, truth being told. Never thought I'd meet so many every day heroes as I did in my travels across the world as I did with all the military folk and their families. That is in all seriousness, and a Happy 4th of July to all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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