Palmer4HOF Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='601713' date='Nov 30 2007, 04:36 PM']i dont see votto hitting 30. griffey doesnt even count anymore we are just stuck with him. moves made by this team should NOT be made with the basis of griffey being on this team. no point in trading an OF because we have griffey. next year we wont. but being hamilton would be dumb. what is one thing the reds hitters have in common? they love to strikeout. a team full of players that K is bad. it leads to streaky scoring stretches which kill the reds at times. Hamilton has the best eye on the team by far. No way do you trade him.[/quote] well if we are trying to win NOW, then you trade Hamilton because we have OF depth, Griff has no trade clause, Dunn cant trade til June, and Hammy would bring back the most in terms of talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 the thing about hamilton is that he is not a homerun hitter... i mean, he can hit homers and is a great hitter, but he is a great contact hitter... he goes the other way and up the middle alot... phillips to me is a great number 2 b/c he is extremely fast, can bunt, move runners, an is a contact hitter. The only down side is a power hitter, but as someone mentioned in this post, so is half our lineup... i think that its funny that you dismiss griffey saying he won't hit 30 HR's, yet that is how many he had for us last year... not sure why he can't do it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 imo, you can't trade hamilton... his arm strength and potential are out of this world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 [quote name='bengalrick' post='601730' date='Nov 30 2007, 05:25 PM']the thing about hamilton is that he is not a homerun hitter... i mean, he can hit homers and is a great hitter, but he is a great contact hitter... he goes the other way and up the middle alot... phillips to me is a great number 2 b/c he is extremely fast, can bunt, move runners, an is a contact hitter. The only down side is a power hitter, but as someone mentioned in this post, so is half our lineup... i think that its funny that you dismiss griffey saying he won't hit 30 HR's, yet that is how many he had for us last year... not sure why he can't do it again...[/quote] when did i say he wont? my point is he is useless to this team because he wont be here next year. if we make a trade based on having griffey in the OF then we fuck ourselves next year. id much rather have Dunn-Hamilton-Bruce then trade Hamilton and have Dunn-???-Bruce. That is a significant piece and young player missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgwilly31 Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Trade Hamilton HELL NO! At least for this year. We'll see if he can stay healthy for full year and show his potential is true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='601732' date='Nov 30 2007, 05:28 PM']when did i say he wont? my point is he is useless to this team because he wont be here next year. if we make a trade based on having griffey in the OF then we fuck ourselves next year. id much rather have Dunn-Hamilton-Bruce then trade Hamilton and have Dunn-???-Bruce. That is a significant piece and young player missing.[/quote] trade dunn... bring up bruce... put griff in right as long as he can play... OF is the easiest position to fill usually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='601732' date='Nov 30 2007, 05:28 PM']when did i say he wont? my point is he is useless to this team because he wont be here next year. if we make a trade based on having griffey in the OF then we fuck ourselves next year. id much rather have Dunn-Hamilton-Bruce then trade Hamilton and have Dunn-???-Bruce. That is a significant piece and young player missing.[/quote] Unfortunately our GM and coach want strictly defense up the middle and Hamilton doesn't have the range needed to be a true center fielder... He'd be a sick RF in my eyes, but in terms of center, I think they are looking more for guys like Pierre or Griff in his prime or say a Grady Sizemore So I wouldn't be surprised if they move Hamilton given he has the most value. You stick Hopper in CF for a year and griff in right, then after this year you go after a CF and bring Bruce up to replace griff in right and you give Dunn a LTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='601821' date='Nov 30 2007, 09:21 PM'][b]Unfortunately our GM and coach want strictly defense up the middle and Hamilton doesn't have the range needed to be a true center fielder.[/b].. He'd be a sick RF in my eyes, but in terms of center, I think they are looking more for guys like Pierre or Griff in his prime or say a Grady Sizemore So I wouldn't be surprised if they move Hamilton given he has the most value. You stick Hopper in CF for a year and griff in right, then after this year you go after a CF and bring Bruce up to replace griff in right and you give Dunn a LTC[/quote] are you fucking kidding me? in the starting lineup he was the 2nd fastest player. he EASILY EASILY EASILY has the range for CF. scouts have been drooling over the fact that he can be a gold glove CF (on top of his ability to hit) and his ability to man CF is one of his biggest attributes. because of his arm the ideal thing to do would be find a CF so you can showcase his arm in RF, but jay bruce has a pretty nice arm as well so you can put him there and have 2 good arms in the OF. i cant believe you just said that. hamilton is a 5 tool player for a reason. he has speed on top of his ability to hit and throw. he isnt as fast as freel or hopper, but he is far more intelligent, a lot i bigger, (which makes up speed), and has always been an OF (unlike freel). also if they leave bruce in AAA for another year and dont give him a job till next year then this team is full of morons. all they can do is slow his ability to improve if he stays the whole year in AAA. also, when did hamilton ever show you he didnt have the range? he got to every ball he ever needed to and even made some plays for dunn in LF while playing CF. he also backed up his fellow OFs unlike anyone else on our team. that is asinine. the guy is a better defensive CF than we have options for. he can win the gold glove in CF and if he starts and plays a full season he has a damn good chance of being deserving of one (no one here is going to get one until this team starts winning tho). there is no intelligent reason to trade hamilton. this team wont win a WS in the next 2 seasons. their best bet is to be competitive the next 2 seasons and try to win back the fan base while attempting to win a division or wild card. then try to make a move in 2 years to bring in another starter. right now this team NEEDS bailey and cueto (in the rotation) and burton and bray (in the bullpen) in order to win. they are too young and inexperienced so trading hamilton to get another SP right now is pointless. 2 years of being competitive and the 3rd year of going for it all looks like this teams best chance at winning one. they have to build their resources into small bursts. they will still have some money floating around in the next couple of years because of guys being young enough and not past arbitration yet and losing griffeys contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='601849' date='Nov 30 2007, 10:58 PM'] are you fucking kidding me? in the starting lineup he was the 2nd fastest player. he EASILY EASILY EASILY has the range for CF. scouts have been drooling over the fact that he can be a gold glove CF (on top of his ability to hit) and his ability to man CF is one of his biggest attributes. because of his arm the ideal thing to do would be find a CF so you can showcase his arm in RF, but jay bruce has a pretty nice arm as well so you can put him there and have 2 good arms in the OF. i cant believe you just said that. hamilton is a 5 tool player for a reason. he has speed on top of his ability to hit and throw. he isnt as fast as freel or hopper, but he is far more intelligent, a lot i bigger, (which makes up speed), and has always been an OF (unlike freel). also if they leave bruce in AAA for another year and dont give him a job till next year then this team is full of morons. all they can do is slow his ability to improve if he stays the whole year in AAA. also, when did hamilton ever show you he didnt have the range? he got to every ball he ever needed to and even made some plays for dunn in LF while playing CF. he also backed up his fellow OFs unlike anyone else on our team. that is asinine. the guy is a better defensive CF than we have options for. he can win the gold glove in CF and if he starts and plays a full season he has a damn good chance of being deserving of one (no one here is going to get one until this team starts winning tho). there is no intelligent reason to trade hamilton. this team wont win a WS in the next 2 seasons. their best bet is to be competitive the next 2 seasons and try to win back the fan base while attempting to win a division or wild card. then try to make a move in 2 years to bring in another starter. right now this team NEEDS bailey and cueto (in the rotation) and burton and bray (in the bullpen) in order to win. they are too young and inexperienced so trading hamilton to get another SP right now is pointless. 2 years of being competitive and the 3rd year of going for it all looks like this teams best chance at winning one. they have to build their resources into small bursts. they will still have some money floating around in the next couple of years because of guys being young enough and not past arbitration yet and losing griffeys contract.[/quote] so because a player is fast, that means he's a good defensive CF? Hamilton is an average or slightly above average CF, but our GM wants a pure defensive CF which Hamilton is not. He's fast yet, but his breaks on balls still need work. I'm not just making this shit up, I've read it (and i have no source) on various scout sites and those at redszone.com (who are baseball freaks / geeks) say the same thing. Just don't be surprised when an injury prone player is dealt this offseason because he will bring back the most in trade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgwilly31 Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Trading hamilton could quite possibly be the worst move the REDS can make. It would Definitely be TYPICAL reds tradition to deal a player that is young and upcoming and PROVEN. For another young Prospect thats NOT PROVEN>. I would BE PISSED if they trade hamilton. Hamilton has the potential to be the NEXT Griffey in the league. And you would trade him off before his true worth comes to value. DUMB DUMB DUMB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 [quote name='bgwilly31' post='602008' date='Dec 1 2007, 10:45 AM']Trading hamilton could quite possibly be the worst move the REDS can make. It would Definitely be TYPICAL reds tradition to deal a player that is young and upcoming and PROVEN. For another young Prospect thats NOT PROVEN>. I would BE PISSED if they trade hamilton. Hamilton has the potential to be the NEXT Griffey in the league. And you would trade him off before his true worth comes to value. DUMB DUMB DUMB.[/quote] Obviously you havent read my posts... I will only be happy if Hamilton is dealt in a package deal for a guy like Bedard, Kazmir, Cain, Haren who are all being shopped... we can't just offer them Freel and think they will bite. Hamilton is a very dangerous "prospect" who has yet to proove himself. I don't get why you think he's proven... the only thing he prooved last year was that his body is very fragile and he self admits to being very injury prone. The dude is an amazing talent but if you can't count on him for more than 140 games what's the use? Hamilton has the best contract to deal, and a team might take the high reward high risk on him and be willing to part with an ace. I'm not sitting here saying to deal him just to deal him... I'm saying deal him for a number 1 or number 2 young proven pitcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgwilly31 Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 If we need one of these guys then we should have dealt DUNN> As i said before with hamilton. It was a ROOKIE season. NOBODY gets a rookie of the year nominee(if he played the entire season) THEN TRADES THEM THE NEXT YEAR!!!! DUMB DUMB DUMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 [quote name='bgwilly31' post='602112' date='Dec 1 2007, 05:08 PM']If we need one of these guys then we should have dealt DUNN> As i said before with hamilton. It was a ROOKIE season. NOBODY gets a rookie of the year nominee(if he played the entire season) THEN TRADES THEM THE NEXT YEAR!!!! DUMB DUMB DUMB [/quote] no... being dumb is when you make players "untradeable" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='602114' date='Dec 1 2007, 05:22 PM']no... being dumb is when you make players "untradeable"[/quote] well unless we are getting a BONAFIDE # 1 SP without adding to it. its not worth it. and the SP better be 28 or younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='602371' date='Dec 2 2007, 02:09 AM']well unless we are getting a BONAFIDE # 1 SP without adding to it. its not worth it. and the SP better be 28 or younger.[/quote] we're not trading Hamilton just to trade him... it would be in a package to get a young proven stud... again, I think Bedard would be perfect and make us contenders NOW and to get him we'd have to deal Hamilton and a package or Bruce straight up. Outfielders are a lot easier to replace than getting an ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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