Sibb Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I just read this article [url="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-88/What-cap-space-means-in-NFC-West.html"]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-88/...n-NFC-West.html[/url] This caught my eye. San Francisco 49ers Current cap room: $12 million Projected functional cap room: $20 million to $30 million Top players without contracts for 2009: Bryant Johnson, J.T. O'Sullivan, Roderick Green, Billy Bajema, Allen Rossum Cap considerations: Of all the NFC West teams, the 49ers are in the best shape to pursue free agents from other teams because their own core players are signed for 2009. The 49ers will pick up additional cap room when they release quarterback Alex Smith or rework his contract. Smith's deal is counting about $10 million against the cap. [u][b]San Francisco pushed unused 2008 cap space into 2009 by writing incentives into the 2009 contracts for running back DeShaun Foster and defensive back Donald Strickland. Once neither player achieved those incentives, the associated cap space rolled over into the 2009 cap allotment. It's one way teams work the system.[/b][/u] I didn’t think you could carry over any cap space from previous years. If that were true we would be sitting really pretty because of all the unused cap space from 2008. The Bengals always load there contract with incentives. Does this mean that we are sitting prettier than we really are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Sibb' post='745001' date='Feb 6 2009, 07:43 PM']I just read this article [url="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-88/What-cap-space-means-in-NFC-West.html"]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-88/...n-NFC-West.html[/url] This caught my eye. San Francisco 49ers Current cap room: $12 million Projected functional cap room: $20 million to $30 million Top players without contracts for 2009: Bryant Johnson, J.T. O'Sullivan, Roderick Green, Billy Bajema, Allen Rossum Cap considerations: Of all the NFC West teams, the 49ers are in the best shape to pursue free agents from other teams because their own core players are signed for 2009. The 49ers will pick up additional cap room when they release quarterback Alex Smith or rework his contract. Smith's deal is counting about $10 million against the cap. [u][b]San Francisco pushed unused 2008 cap space into 2009 by writing incentives into the 2009 contracts for running back DeShaun Foster and defensive back Donald Strickland. Once neither player achieved those incentives, the associated cap space rolled over into the 2009 cap allotment. It's one way teams work the system.[/b][/u] I didn’t think you could carry over any cap space from previous years. If that were true we would be sitting really pretty because of all the unused cap space from 2008. The Bengals always load there contract with incentives. Does this mean that we are sitting prettier than we really are?[/quote] There was a thread about it in the main forum. Yes the Bengals could have rolled about 11 million in unused 2008 cap dollars into 2009. They decided not to however, for no good reason.. Apparently Mike Brown didn't want the extra space used as a bargaining chip by player's agents, or maybe he just had a pressing need for funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='sparky151' post='745342' date='Feb 9 2009, 12:31 PM']There was a thread about it in the main forum. Yes the Bengals could have rolled about 11 million in unused 2008 cap dollars into 2009. They decided not to however, for no good reason.. Apparently Mike Brown didn't want the extra space used as a bargaining chip by player's agents, or maybe he just had a pressing need for funds.[/quote] I think you're wrong here, sparky. The 49ers used unlikely to be earned incentives to move money forward. The money you are talking about was Cap cash that was from players that we let go and would have had to be written into a contract as guaranteed bonus money to lower the salary of a player in future years against the cap. The problem with that, as Go has mentioned, is who would you give that money to, and how? You either give it to a guy approaching FA in a new contract which it appears they tried, or give it to a guy that you have under contract in an extension, and with the number of injuries who was that guy other than Carson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jude Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='745406' date='Feb 9 2009, 02:46 PM']I think you're wrong here, sparky. The 49ers used unlikely to be earned incentives to move money forward. The money you are talking about was Cap cash that was from players that we let go and would have had to be written into a contract as guaranteed bonus money to lower the salary of a player in future years against the cap. The problem with that, as Go has mentioned, is who would you give that money to, and how? You either give it to a guy approaching FA in a new contract which it appears they tried, or give it to a guy that you have under contract in an extension, and with the number of injuries [b]who was that guy other than Carson?[/b][/quote] hall, nduke, jj... but really anyone... basically, the player gets a "guaranteed" cash payment for the first season of the contract so it's a "win" for him the balance of the contract involves yearly incentives which the player won't hit like a bonus payment of $1 million for playing in 100% of the defensive plays; he won't hit that incentive so that is $1 million the team can use to sign a FA the next year or for example, re-sign jj to a new contract for same amount of years (player would still hit FA at same time so player and agent won't whine) for same total amount of money(so the Bengals don't pay more than they originally agreed), but he would receive a front loaded contract which would pay out the extra money (the 2008 unused cap $) as base salary for the first year, reducing his base salary the remainder of the contract thus freeing up cap space in subsequent years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='745406' date='Feb 9 2009, 03:46 PM']I think you're wrong here, sparky. The 49ers used unlikely to be earned incentives to move money forward. The money you are talking about was Cap cash that was from players that we let go and would have had to be written into a contract as guaranteed bonus money to lower the salary of a player in future years against the cap. The problem with that, as Go has mentioned, is who would you give that money to, and how? You either give it to a guy approaching FA in a new contract which it appears they tried, or give it to a guy that you have under contract in an extension, and with the number of injuries who was that guy other than Carson?[/quote] The simple fact is that the reason the money was not carried over was a horrendous error or a blatant lack of not trying to field a winning team. Either way, it is just another example of how this is one of the poorest run franchises in professional sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibb Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thank you all for your replies, I guess the bottom line is some teams use incentives to work the system to better the team each year. Our team uses the incentive to appear to be maxing the salary cap and pocketing what is not being used. ***Sigh*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='Sibb' post='745681' date='Feb 10 2009, 07:30 PM']Thank you all for your replies, I guess the bottom line is some teams use incentives to work the system to better the team each year. Our team uses the incentive to appear to be maxing the salary cap and pocketing what is not being used. ***Sigh***[/quote] Sibb, the other guys that posted here, although good guys, are glass half empty posters. Post this on the main board and I think you will see more vairied responses. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='745406' date='Feb 9 2009, 02:46 PM']I think you're wrong here, sparky. The 49ers used unlikely to be earned incentives to move money forward. The money you are talking about was Cap cash that was from players that we let go and would have had to be written into a contract as guaranteed bonus money to lower the salary of a player in future years against the cap. The problem with that, as Go has mentioned, is who would you give that money to, and how? You either give it to a guy approaching FA in a new contract which it appears they tried, or give it to a guy that you have under contract in an extension, and with the number of injuries who was that guy other than Carson?[/quote] Kenneth, the way teams do it is insert a special teams incentive in a players contract. Special teams incentives are automaticalling condidered "likely to be earned" incentives and count on the cap that year whether or not the player actually achieves them and collects the money. Obviously teams wanting to roll cap space forward set the incentives at levels that won't be achieved so they then receive a cap credit for the amount of the incentive on the following year's cap. An example of this would be Stacy Andrews franchise tag. It was based on the average of the 5 highest paid offensive linemen in the league for 2007. One of them was Ryan Pontbriand. Who?, you might ask. He's the Cleveland Brown's long snapper who had an 8 million dollar incentive in his contract thus making him one of the 5 highest paid (at least on paper) linemen in the league. He didn't achieve the incentive of course or collect the money but they probably gave him a couple thousand bucks in signing bonus for playing ball with the team. Sometimes teams and agents will put weird and phony incentives in a players contract just so the player or agent can brag about the size of the deal. Shaun Rogers had a clause in his last contract in Detroit that paid him something like 7 or 8 million extra if he played all the special teams snaps one season. Needless to say, he wasn't on the kick coverage teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='sparky151' post='745738' date='Feb 10 2009, 11:57 PM']Kenneth, the way teams do it is insert a special teams incentive in a players contract. Special teams incentives are automaticalling condidered "likely to be earned" incentives and count on the cap that year whether or not the player actually achieves them and collects the money. Obviously teams wanting to roll cap space forward set the incentives at levels that won't be achieved so they then receive a cap credit for the amount of the incentive on the following year's cap. An example of this would be Stacy Andrews franchise tag. It was based on the average of the 5 highest paid offensive linemen in the league for 2007. One of them was Ryan Pontbriand. Who?, you might ask. He's the Cleveland Brown's long snapper who had an 8 million dollar incentive in his contract thus making him one of the 5 highest paid (at least on paper) linemen in the league. He didn't achieve the incentive of course or collect the money but they probably gave him a couple thousand bucks in signing bonus for playing ball with the team. Sometimes teams and agents will put weird and phony incentives in a players contract just so the player or agent can brag about the size of the deal. Shaun Rogers had a clause in his last contract in Detroit that paid him something like 7 or 8 million extra if he played all the special teams snaps one season. Needless to say, he wasn't on the kick coverage teams.[/quote] That's what I said, just with less verbiage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jude Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='745695' date='Feb 10 2009, 07:25 PM']Sibb, the other guys that posted here, although good guys, are glass half empty posters. Post this on the main board and I think you will see more vairied responses. Just sayin'.[/quote] Explain to me how that money is being used to better the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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