Zimmer off the pedestal

[BengalsFanFromNY]

Def sucks. We are decent against a rookie QB with poor offenseive players. When it's time to play with the big boys (Pats) you see how bad our defense really is.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1287022124' post='930756']
Last year our run D was pretty stout. We've been gouged on the ground overall. [b]Seriously though, Zimmer has fielded a better-ranked unit with mostly cast-off, bargain bin players.[/b]
[/quote]


I'm not sure that's completely accurate.


Zimmer's starters: 4 first rounders, 3 2nd rounders, 1 3rd rounder, 2 4th rounders, 1 6th rounder
Zimmer's key depth: 2 first rounders, 4 3rd rounders, 1 4th rounder


Brat's starters: 3 first rounders, 3 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, 3 undrafted players
Brat's key depth: 1 first rounder, 1 2nd rounder, 2 3rd rounder, 1 4th rounder, 1 6th rounder


Plus, while you certainly can make the strong argument that the defense is the better unit, the offense is the higher rated unit right now.

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1287023954' post='930768']
I'm not sure that's completely accurate.


Zimmer's starters: 4 first rounders, 3 2nd rounders, 1 3rd rounder, 2 4th rounders, 1 6th rounder
Zimmer's key depth: 2 first rounders, 4 3rd rounders, 1 4th rounder


Brat's starters: 3 first rounders, 3 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, 3 undrafted players
Brat's key depth: 1 first rounder, 1 2nd rounder, 2 3rd rounder, 1 4th rounder, 1 6th rounder

[/quote]

But how many of these were drafted by us? Sure Adam Jones & Roy Williams were first rounders once upon a time.. Draft position doesn't really tell the story. The irreplaceable "QB of the defense" is the 6th-round guy, after all.

How many points has Zimmer's D given up that didn't come off turnovers?

[quote]
Plus, while you certainly can make the strong argument that the defense is the better unit, the offense is the higher rated unit right now.
[/quote]

I'd suggest that says more about the ranking system than it does about the Bengals.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1287027664' post='930783']
But how many of these were drafted by us? Sure Adam Jones & Roy Williams were first rounders once upon a time.. Draft position doesn't really tell the story. The irreplaceable "QB of the defense" is the 6th-round guy, after all.

[b]How many points has Zimmer's D given up that didn't come off turnovers? [/b]



I'd suggest that says more about the ranking system than it does about the Bengals.
[/quote]


I'm not sure that's an accurate way to judge it. A defense is expected to stand their ground. Whether a fumble or a long kickoff return gives the opposing offense the ball at the 50, the defense should be expected to keep the other offense out of the endzone.


Like I said above, I definitely think the defense is the better unit, they're only giving up 16.2ypg, but the lack of sacks and the amount of yards they are giving up is concerning. Particularly the 4.4ypc being given up is a concern.

[T-Dub]

Definitely agree on the YPC.. Where did our run D go?

[|SF2|]

[quote name='bengalsfan850' timestamp='1287022028' post='930754']
if you don't remember his last year here i'll recap it. franchise tagged and paid 4 million a sack. 2 sacks in 16 games, he can't help us he's a better fit in san fran anyway
[/quote]
Oh I remember. Too expensive to keep no doubt. Just having a little fun.

The reason our line is being exposed is teams are less inclined to throw against JJ and Hall and now that teams have had success running the ball against us you can bet it won't stop until we prove we can stop it. The ole Catch 22 in effect.

[StripedCrusader]

You can say what you want about Brat, but the offense is in the top 10 in a couple categories while the D is only top 10 in 1, INTs (tied for 4th place) which is shared with 7 teams..(BTW, Baltimore has 1 interception so far all season).. 9th in YPG, 8th in passing, 9th in receiving, 2nd in FGs (not one to really cheer about, but not one to cry over either) and believe it or not the O-line in offense is rated 5th overall.. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2010&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Yet who gets 99% of the coaching blame for losses? Brat of course. Fans question nearly EVERY play call, but never seems to be in sync with the realities of the D calls. Don't get me wrong.. I DO like Zimmer and think he was a vast improvement over his predecessor, BUT the D is backsliding by leaps and bounds whereas last year and the year before they were moving forward, but now they're falling off the face of the earth and people are still blaming it on Brat. If you want to point fingers, which is stupid anyway at least point in the direction the numbers point.
Everyone seems to be in love with the numbers, but not the realities of the numbers.

As far as who was drafted where that's a lot of a whole lot of nothing.. Talk about an empty argument because just look at Jerome Simpson. Need I take that any further? Hello..2nd round and has 1 official catch.. If they were all 7th rounders and winning I wouldn't care one iota, but the truth is the best players in the league generally are not number 1 picks anyway..The term Dark Horse is usually the best..