Guest BlackJesus Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 [img]http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050803/050803_marino_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg[/img] [u]Marino not among greatest QBs ever Ex-Dolphin, Hall of Famer never found way to win the big one Amy Sancetta / AP file By Mike Celizic NBCSports.com contributor Aug. 5, 2005[/u] Dan Marino goes into the Pro Football Hall of Fame Sunday, and it will be a show worth watching because he is without question the greatest passer in the history of the game. Just don’t call him the best quarterback ever. He’s not even close. We all know who the greatest quarterbacks have been. They’re the guys with the multiple rings, the guys who found ways to win the big games. They are Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, John Elway and Bart Starr. Put Troy Aikman and Brett Favre a step below those guys and Steve Young a half step behind them. Go ahead and include Tom Brady in the top tier. Just don’t include Marino. Don’t interpret this as dismissing or belittling Marino. As Bill Parcells likes to say, “You are what your record says you are,†and Marino’s says he’s the greatest passer ever, but not a champion. That isn’t all bad. Think about it. If you had to compare Marino to someone in another sport, it would be Nolan Ryan. They were cut from the same cloth that otherwise is used only to make the capes of superheroes. They were gunslingers who scared you silly when they swaggered onto your turf. Scalpers loved both Ryan and Marino, because fans everywhere would pay premium prices just to say they saw them in action. By the end of Marino’s career, there weren’t too many fans of any team who hadn’t seen him at least once snatch victory from the proverbial jaws with some bit of fourth-quarter magic. Marino shattered every record that counts  completions, attempts, yards and touchdowns. While Peyton Manning is showing that they aren’t unassailable, when Marino set them they were incomprehensible. His more than 61,000 passing yards remain a veritable Everest of achievement. If strikeouts are the measure of a pitcher’s power, touchdown passes are the measure of a quarterbacks. No one struck out more batters than Ryan. No one threw more touchdown passes than Marino – 420 of them in 17 seasons in a sport in which 200 career touchdowns are the mark of an elite performer. But they both have the same gaping hole in their records – their big-game records. Ryan actually got a ring pitching for the 1969 Mets, but he wasn’t a starter then, at the beginning of his career. Pitching in relief, he won a game in the playoffs against Atlanta and another in the World Series against Baltimore. He went on to California (To this day, say “Jim Fregosi†to any Mets fan and he or she will groan in agony at the memory of the man for whom the greatest thrower in baseball history was traded.) Ryan played in four more post-seasons, but those two relief wins in 1969 would remain his only victories against four losses. His career winning percentage was .526. Marino got to the Super Bowl just once, and he lost that one big to San Francisco and Joe Montana. It was at the start of his career, and he was supposed to get back frequently; he was that good. But for all his regular-season success, he never got to the big game again and was just 8-10 for his career in the playoffs. Ryan and Marino both have legions of apologists, and their party line is the same: Ryan played on lousy offensive teams and Marino played on lousy defensive teams. Marino, they say, also had no running game. But an iconoclastic web site called coldhardfootballfacts.com points out that when Marino joined the Dolphins they had one of the best rushing attacks in the league and several of those Dolphin teams had scoring defenses that were among the league’s best. The reality is Marino’s playoff passer rating is just a hair over 77, nine points worse than his regular-season rating. Sounds a lot like Peyton Manning, doesn’t it? Manning still has a lot of time left, though, and I’d be surprised if he never won a Super Bowl and shocked if he never gets to one. The Patriots can’t be great forever, can they? Still what we can learn from this is that there’s more to being a great quarterback than being a great passer, or, in the case of Michael Vick and his spiritual ancestor, Fran Tarkenton, a great runner. The quarterbacks who tend to win championships are the ones who can do something other than stand stolidly in the pocket and drill the ball down the field. There’s Marino, big guy, big arm, can’t outrun a fire hydrant. Retires with all the records – attempts, yards, completions, touchdowns. But he can’t win a Super Bowl; he can barely win a playoff game. Then there’s Bradshaw, also big and strong and able to rifle the ball through six-inch slabs of reinforced concrete. But Bradshaw could run, too. In 17 seasons, Marino had positive rushing yards just five times, topping out at 66 yards on 20 carries in 1992. In 14 seasons, including his final two in which he played in just six games, Bradshaw had positive rushing yards every season. As a starter, he failed to break 100 yards just twice. He topped out at 346 yards on 1972. Or there’s Montana, couldn’t throw hard enough to splash water – or so they said. And Brady – similar rap. All Montana could do was win. It’s all Brady does, too. If I had to accept whatever I was given as a quarterback to run my team for ten years, I’d be delighted if it were Marino. He won a lot of regular-season games, sold a lot of jerseys, made the scalpers happy, delighted the fans, was a super citizen and was loved by all. You can do a lot worse. But if I could pick my own quarterback, it would be Brady or Montana or Elway or Staubach or Bradshaw. That’s not really a knock on Marino. It’s just the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 His position is QUARTERBACK. SO to say he wasn`t one of the GREATEST QB`s because he never won a Super Bowl is asinine. Winning the Super Bowl is a TEAM thing. Marino never had a good running game. He won alot of games with his arm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 This is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mongoloido Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Elway proved you could be awesome and have little chance without a running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 I guess this means Dilfer is one of the greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 my answer to the poll question... yes but do i still think he is one of the "greats," in a word, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='Aug 7 2005, 01:55 PM']I guess this means Dilfer is one of the greats. [right][post="126309"][/post][/right][/quote] Exactly. I suppose we can just say Peyton Manning sucks too. He has not seen the Super Bowl. Although, when it comes to the Patriots, he does appear to suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoBengal Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 That almost doesn't warrant a response, but since I'm here...Marino (who I was never a big fan of) put up insane numbers with virtually no running game to balance defenses. That in and of itself puts him up there with the greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Marino is one of the greats. BJ - you can't say he isn't great because he never found a way to win the big one! I don't think he's overrated. To think the Bengals had a shot at drafting him in '83, but we took center Dave Rimington instead. If you think Marino is overrated cos he didn't win the big one, you can say the same about Dan Fouts who never even reached the big one. To be honest the Hall of Fame voting is totally biased towards big market teams, and is totally inconsistent and unfair. Don't get me started on how Ken Anderson isn't in there, but Dan Fouts is. Anderson passed for more yards than Fouts, had a higher completion percentage than Fouts, and atleast reached a superbowl, but he hasn't got in. If Ken Anderson was from a bigger market team than Cincy he would get in. English Bengal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 [quote name='EnglishBengal' date='Aug 7 2005, 06:54 PM']Marino is one of the greats. BJ - you can't say he isn't great because he never found a way to win the big one! I don't think he's overrated. To think the Bengals had a shot at drafting him in '83, but we took center Dave Rimington instead. If you think Marino is overrated cos he didn't win the big one, you can say the same about Dan Fouts who never even reached the big one. To be honest the Hall of Fame voting is totally biased towards big market teams, and is totally inconsistent and unfair. Don't get me started on how Ken Anderson isn't in there, but Dan Fouts is. Anderson passed for more yards than Fouts, had a higher completion percentage than Fouts, and atleast reached a superbowl, but he hasn't got in. If Ken Anderson was from a bigger market team than Cincy he would get in. English Bengal. [right][post="126430"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] While I won't argue that Anderson doesn't belong, he certainly does, he was a far better QB than Bradshaw, Fouts deserves it as well. Fouts racked up several 4000 yard seasons before it was as common as it is now. He was putting up 4000+ when 3000 was the standard for a good year. Which makes the 5000 that Marino put up even more spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote name='mongoloido' date='Aug 7 2005, 12:30 PM']Elway proved you could be awesome and have little chance without a running game. [right][post="126290"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] [url="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm"]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm[/url] Ever heard of Terrell Davis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote name='#22' date='Aug 7 2005, 10:04 PM'][url="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm"]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm[/url] Ever heard of Terrell Davis? [right][post="126489"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I think that is what he was trying to say. Anyway, I believe that Marino is not overrated. He has to be considered one of the top QBs of all time, along with Joe Montana, John Elway, Johnny U., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 Who voted that he was overrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 One of the greatest QB's of all time hands down. No questions asked. He did everything possible to help his team win. Helped team on and off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASTYNATI Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 anyone doubting that hes one of the greatest needs bitch smacked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Master Shake Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 [quote name='#22' date='Aug 7 2005, 10:04 PM'][url="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm"]http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaviTe00.htm[/url] Ever heard of Terrell Davis? [right][post="126489"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Now, speaking of overrated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyLabonteFan Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 There is no way that Marino is Overrated. I for one have never been a Marino Fan. But he is one of the greatest. Like it has been said previously, it takes a team to make it to the Super Bowl and Marino did all he could to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanof41 Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 [quote name='Master Shake' date='Aug 8 2005, 02:47 PM']Now, speaking of overrated... [right][post="126929"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Are u saying that Terrell Davis is overrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Claptonrocks Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 great arm...quick delivery....great stats ( that'll make OS happy ) Selfish, egotistical and overbearing... Had Shula conviced all those years that they didnt need a running back cuz he cud do it on his own...paid the price for that .... Jimmy Johnson wanted to change all that so he and Dan butted heads and culminated in a 62-7 defeat at Denver........ Hall of Famer ...yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Master Shake Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 [quote name='fanof41' date='Aug 11 2005, 08:15 AM']Are u saying that Terrell Davis is overrated? [right][post="128635"][/post][/right][/quote] Yes...how many other nobodies have followed him and put up numbers almost as good? Olandis Gary Mike Anderson Clinton Portis Reuben Droughns Tatum Bell ...and have any of these guys had success outside Denver? Portis had some, but he wasn't anywhere near the same with the Redskins. Denver's undersized, mobile, cerebral (some would say dirty) O-line opens huge holes for whoever is in the backfield. I'm not saying that Davis was no good, but Elway was still a more important piece on that team, and just cause he had a 2000-yard season doesn't make him an all-time great. Priest Holmes, LaDanian Tomlinson, Ahman Green, and others would likely also have put up years like that if they'd been on the Broncos. Especially with a passing threat like Elway to keep the safeties at bay. So...yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natifanatic Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Dan Marino is not overrated. Anybody who can break records for TD passes in a season, AND hold a starting job for years upon years, AND be pretty much an idol in Miami is pretty good IMO, and worthy of Hall of Fame honors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals_12th_Man Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Regardless of overrated or not, the man is completely stuck on himself. His head is so big, it deserves its own zip-code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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