Why do people still believe in and support W.

[KMHBB]

I can not fathom why some people insist on continuing with blind faith to support a man who has done so much damage to our people and our nation.

I have heard some on this post insist that he is best weve got and that nomatter what we find out about him and his political buddies, his plan is right and righteous.

I have even heard one member of the military ( who I have the utmost respect for ) defend him tooth and nail and complain how much Clinton sucked as a CIC.

I come from a heavily military family and nearly everyone of them both active duty and retired agree that this man has missused our military men and women and has drove a knife in their back when and if they do make it home by cutting and denying needed benifits.

This so called president cares little or nothing for the vast majority of majority of Americans, and the proof that this is true is coming to light more and more every passing day. The only thing he cares about is $ for the top 1% of the population, and ensuring that anyone who oposses the ruling dynasty is quashed. I refer to him as a so called president b/c I have respect for the office but not for the man. His actions have made it clear that he does not deserve the respect that the office garners.

He has harmed our nation in innumerable ways.

1.) Working to destroy our Constitutional protections. (religous and otherwise)
2.) Lied to an entire nation concerning the use or our military. (costing thousands of lives)
3.) Ensures that the economy is set to funnell vast majority of the wealth of this nation to the very few elitists.

and the list goes on and on.


I just cant imagine supporting this man at all in any way yet im bombarded with it everywhere I turn.

I have a couple of guesses as to why though they will follow............

[KMHBB]

I honestly think some in our society would not worry about reverting to a quasi futalistic society and would have no problem with this.

[img]http://www.feeltheflow.com/images/kinggeorge.jpg[/img]

[KMHBB]

And in some cases I think it even goes further than that, in that some are so brainwashed by the extreme right confusing religion and faith with one man that they secretely are starting believe this
[img]http://www.feeltheflow.com/images/bush_jesus_christ.jpg[/img]

This man could come into their home, kick their dog, grope their wife and daughter, ask them for a donation and shot of bourbone and then leave and they would still swear everlasting devotion to him.

[Guest oldschooler]

I support Bush for a few reasons.

I think Saddam should have been taken out in 1991.
I think he HAD to be dealt with after 9-11.
I don`t think Bush "lied"...I think Saddam did
everything in his power to try and make EVERYONE
think he still had WMD`s.
Saddam was ALLOWED to remain in power for over
a decade. He defied the terms that ALLOWED him to
stay in power for over a decade.

I really liked how Bush handled the after math of 9-11.
Yes I know we haven`t caught Bin Laden...but he is
running for his life and we haven`t been attacked in
4+ years.

I don`t agree with everything Bush does. But I don`t
agree with everything ANYONE does...not even Marvin Lewis.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][color="red"]You forgot his real accomplishments[/color]


- Took an 8 Trillion dollar surplus - turned it into a 3 trillion $ Deficit
- Has increased the amount of people in Poverty every year he has been President
- Claimed Saddam couldn't get WMD's.... then watched N Korea aquire Nukes
- Has created an environment where the Army can no longer meet recruitment standards
- Has not found Osama.... even though he vowed to ...... He did find his fathers ex friend dictator Saddam in Iraq though
- Has turned Iraq from being a secular stable country ruled by an Asshole dictator like dozens of our other allies..... into a Jihad magnet and splintering quasi war zone... leaving 2,000 Americans to die, and over 50,000 wounded many without Limbs .... now the country will be in chaos for decades... and we may be stuck there for years
- Gave over 70 % of all his tax cuts to the top 1 % of wage earners.... The Paris Hiltons of the world now have a few extra billion while New Orleans sits under water and sewage without adequate funds to even pay their city workers
- Has consitently given No bid contracts to Haliburton and Bechtel.... enriching Cheney to the tune of 10 million $..... Haliburtons stock is up 300 %
- Placed a Arabian horse expert in charge of Fema.... then fiddled while New Orleans drown
- Sat in his Piss for 7 minutes while a plane hurdled into the Pentagon
- Has squandered the U.S.'s reputation throughout the World.... and set the nation back a generation as far as how we are viewed abroad....
- Created thousands of future Osamas..... who will be attacking us for decades....
- Now has placed his Personal DUI lawyer up for the Supreme Court
- Done nothing to aid the Darfur genocide... and now has it buried at the UN by Bolton
- Set Civil Liberites back to the McCarthy Era with the Patriot Act[/b]

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Oct 14 2005, 10:59 AM']I support Bush for a few reasons.

I think Saddam should have been taken out in 1991.
I think he HAD to be dealt with after 9-11.
I don`t think Bush "lied"...I think Saddam did
everything in his power to try and make EVERYONE
think he still had WMD`s.
Saddam was ALLOWED to remain in power for over
a decade. He defied the terms that ALLOWED him to
stay in power for over a decade.

I really liked how Bush handled the after math of 9-11.
Yes I know we haven`t caught Bin Laden...but he is
running for his life and we haven`t been attacked in
4+ years.

I don`t agree with everything Bush does. But I don`t
agree with everything ANYONE does...not even Marvin Lewis.
[right][post="169334"][/post][/right][/quote]



it was poppa bush who left saddam in power... why did he all of a sudden need to be taken out after 9/11?

what exactly did bush do after 9/11 that impressed you so much, last time i checked it was guiliani who ran the show in ny, bush just gave a few speeches someone else wrote for him and then passed the illegal "patriot" act, i know of more things bush messed up than did correctly

if these are the only reasons you support bush you may need to re-examine your priorities...

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Oct 14 2005, 11:07 AM'][b][color="red"]You forgot his real accomplishments[/color]
- Took an 8 Trillion dollar surplus - turned it into a 3 trillion $ Deficit
- Has increased the amount of people in Poverty has increased every year he has been President
- Claimed Saddam couldn't get WMD's.... then watched N Korea aquire Nukes
- Has created an environment where the Army can no longer meet recruitment standards
- Has not found Osama.... even though he vowed to ...... He did find his fathers ex friend dictator Saddam in Iraq though
- Has turned Iraq from being a secular stable country ruled by an Asshole dictator like dozens of our other allies..... into a Jihad magnet and splintering quasi war zone... leaving 2,000 Americans to die, and over 50,000 wounded many without Limbs .... now the country will be in chaos for decades... and we may be stuck there for years
- Gave over 70 % of all his tax cuts to the top 1 % of wage earners.... The Paris Hiltons of the world now have a few extra billion while New Orleans sits under water and sewage without adequate funds to even pay their city workers
- Has consitently given No bid contracts to Haliburton and Bechtel.... enriching Cheney to the tune of 10 million $..... Haliburtons stock is up 300 %
- Placed a Arabian horse expert in charge of Fema.... then fiddled while New Orleans drown
- Sat in his Piss for 7 minutes while a plane hurdled into the Pentagon
- Has squandered the U.S.'s reputation throughout the World.... and set the nation back a generation as far as how we are viewed abroad....
- Created thousands of future Osamas..... who will be attacking us for decades....
- Now has placed his Personal DUI lawyer up for the Supreme Court
- Done nothing to aid the Darfur genocide... and now has it buried at the UN by Bolton
- Set Civil Liberites back to the McCarthy Era with the Patriot Act[/b]
[right][post="169336"][/post][/right][/quote]

Best. Post. Ever.

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//41.gif[/img]

[KMHBB]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Oct 14 2005, 11:07 AM'][b][color="red"]You forgot his real accomplishments[/color]
- Took an 8 Trillion dollar surplus - turned it into a 3 trillion $ Deficit
- Has increased the amount of people in Poverty every year he has been President
- Claimed Saddam couldn't get WMD's.... then watched N Korea aquire Nukes
- Has created an environment where the Army can no longer meet recruitment standards
- Has not found Osama.... even though he vowed to ...... He did find his fathers ex friend dictator Saddam in Iraq though
- Has turned Iraq from being a secular stable country ruled by an Asshole dictator like dozens of our other allies..... into a Jihad magnet and splintering quasi war zone... leaving 2,000 Americans to die, and over 50,000 wounded many without Limbs .... now the country will be in chaos for decades... and we may be stuck there for years
- Gave over 70 % of all his tax cuts to the top 1 % of wage earners.... The Paris Hiltons of the world now have a few extra billion while New Orleans sits under water and sewage without adequate funds to even pay their city workers
- Has consitently given No bid contracts to Haliburton and Bechtel.... enriching Cheney to the tune of 10 million $..... Haliburtons stock is up 300 %
- Placed a Arabian horse expert in charge of Fema.... then fiddled while New Orleans drown
- Sat in his Piss for 7 minutes while a plane hurdled into the Pentagon
- Has squandered the U.S.'s reputation throughout the World.... and set the nation back a generation as far as how we are viewed abroad....
- Created thousands of future Osamas..... who will be attacking us for decades....
- Now has placed his Personal DUI lawyer up for the Supreme Court
- Done nothing to aid the Darfur genocide... and now has it buried at the UN by Bolton
- Set Civil Liberites back to the McCarthy Era with the Patriot Act[/b]
[right][post="169336"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
Didnt forget just not the best typist in the world. And just think these are only the things we know about. awesome post

[-GoBengals-]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

i hope bush dies soon.

[KMHBB]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Oct 14 2005, 10:59 AM']I support Bush for a few reasons.

I think Saddam should have been taken out in 1991.
I think he HAD to be dealt with after 9-11.
I don`t think Bush "lied"...I think Saddam did
everything in his power to try and make EVERYONE
think he still had WMD`s.
Saddam was ALLOWED to remain in power for over
a decade. He defied the terms that ALLOWED him to
stay in power for over a decade.

I really liked how Bush handled the after math of 9-11.
Yes I know we haven`t caught Bin Laden...but he is
running for his life and we haven`t been attacked in
4+ years.

I don`t agree with everything Bush does. But I don`t
agree with everything ANYONE does...not even Marvin Lewis.
[right][post="169334"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
I agree I think he shoudve been taken care of in 91

I dont understand why we had to act against him all of a sudden in 2003 when we had him contained and continued to have him contained since 91.

Yes of course he did everything he could to break the agreements that allowed him to stay in power, but there was no good evidence that he had the wmd that he wanted everyone to believe that he did and we werent the only ones who saw all of the evidence. Some saw the evidence and concluding that for the time being more oversight was necesarry. We however almost unilateraly decided to act. WHY? I think there is way more behind it than wmds or a supposed link to al quida wich it turns out there was no evidence for either. I find it interesting that just prior to the invasion soddam was making a serious push to change his holding currency for oil and other international trade from $s to euros.

I was 100% behind bush just after 9/11 and was 100% for going into afganistan, but bush sqaundered that support for his own agenda, and thats just not right.

Believe me old schooler I 100% agree with you on the last thing, I dont beleive you can ever put blind faith and trust into someone, especially a politician, and thats the heart of my question how is it that some still give him blanket support no matter what he does??

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][color="blue"]More "W" Genius[/color]

- Got caught paying reporters to push his education agenda
- Got caught having a male escort throw him softball questions
- Ruined Colin Powells Esteemed and decorated reputation by making him Lie to the U.N. (Powell has since said that the evidence was fabricated intentionally)
- By deposing the Taliban who killed poppie growers.... has caused the production of Heroine all throughout the World to go up 20 Fold..... Afghanistan is now basically a balkanized drug warlord state
- Has said nothing to the Saudis where 15 of the 19 hijackers came from.... In fact has only buddied up with them even more at the Ranch
- Has been caught authorizing torture as a tactic
- Has been called out by Dozens of Human rights organizations for violating the Geneva Convention
- Pulled out of the Kyoto Treaty, .... Increased Pollution production in the U.S. 2 Fold
- Raised the level of acceptable chemcials allowed in our Kids drinking water (geniusly called it the clean air and water act)
- Repealed the Death Tax.... which was basically a tax on rich fucks estates which had the govt take a tax before allowing mega estates to be split up to all the Kids who will never work again
- Repealed Bans on Assault Weapons .... Gun Crimes are up
- Said nothing when the Rehnquist led Supreme Court insituted Public Domain .... now your land can be taken for a WalMart
- Grown the Size of the Fed Govt to twice the size when he started
- Done nothing to curtail border security

And on his watch Lost a few Airlines, 2 World trade centers, the side of the Pentagon, the City of New Orleans, And every US allie except Britian and Poland[/b]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Oct 14 2005, 10:09 AM']
it was poppa bush who left saddam in power... why did he all of a sudden need to be taken out after 9/11?[right][post="169337"][/post][/right][/quote]


Actually it was the U.N. that left him in power.

A Muslim Country that we had been at war with before.
After 9-11 happened...we HAD to deal with threats
differently than we did before. Like it or not...Saddam was a threat.
You can use your 20/20 hindsight vision all you want to NOW.


[quote]what exactly did bush do after 9/11 that impressed you so much, last time i checked it was guiliani who ran the show in ny, bush just gave a few speeches someone else wrote for him and then passed the illegal "patriot" act, i know of more things bush messed up than did correctly[/quote]

Bush brought this country together. He went on the
OFFENSIVE instead of just being a pussy.


I don`t agree with everything the patriot act stands for.
But I do agree with what it is intended for.



[quote]if these are the only reasons you support bush you may need to re-examine your priorities...[/quote]

*sigh*

I have avoided this forum for a few weeks now.
I have my reasons for supporting him. Those were
just a few of them. It doesn`t matter...those of you
that hate him will continue to hate him no matter what I say.
I gave up.


He is our President...he isn`t going anywhere.
I like how he doesn`t give a shit what France, Germany and
Russia (who were all in Saddam`s back pocket) thought.
He is doing what he thinks is right for our country. He isn`t
asking other Countries that obviously won`t take OUR
best interest to heart if it`s OK....I like how instead of
us being attacked and talking tough...he is using force.
We all seen where talk got us...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

i hope bush dies soon.[/quote]


[b]You're not the only one [/b]

[KMHBB]

helped to make sure no bid contracts were handed out for iraq (not just for the usual year but for the whole war...........ongoing).

helped to make sure no bid cantract were handed out to the same companies ( who also happen to be political buddies) for Katrina releife and then wrote a de facto law (executive order) to make sures his buddies didnt have to pay the poor people they hire to rebuild their own homes more than minimum wage.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][color="green"]Even More W Genius....[/color]

- Repealed the Davis Bacon Act - which means now NO reconstruction firms (his friends) can pay 5.15 an Hr instead of the going rate of 9 $ an hour.
- Personally destroyed the English Language single handedly and rubbed off Hick texas pigeon off on Americas children
- Instituted "No Child Left Behind" which essentially now teaches Kids to pass the FCats and not to educate themselves.... Minorities test scores have tanked.... and now they are being left behind like he intended
- Created a defacto Thoecratic Govt where now simply being a Born Again christian is enough to get you on the supreme court.... regularly meets with the likes of Dobson, Falwell, and Pat Robetson - Making the US the laughing stock of the World... and making us the Western Iran when it comes to our Christian style Mullahs
- Cut funding for Condom education in Africa under the premise that it was not moral.... Gave that $ to religious groups instead.... Aids rate is skyrocketing
- Curtailed sex education in Highschools and replaced it with Abstinence only teaching... the result is an alarming rate of STD's and now the avg girl and boy fuck before 14 and then don't use a condom
- Cut the funding for Head Start (now poor kids start off behind in Kindergarten)
- Placed a Veternarian in charge of Womens Reproductive Issues in the Dept of Health (no joke)
- Placed countless unqualified cronies in office who have failed
- Cut the Physical Education out of most Schools.... and now the rate of child obesity is going through the roof..... the kids are too busy trying to pass his stupid standardized Fcat test
- Lowered benefits for the Troops (did sell alot of magnets with support the troops) on them though
- Now has Gas at about 3.20 $ a Gallon Up from 1.50 Where Clinton Left it
- NYSE is down, Nasdaq is down, Unemployment is up, Crime is up, and the Minumum Wage hasn't moved
- And now instead of Terrorists needing to attack Americans here.... they simply just attack Americans daily in Iraq.... we may not have been attacked on American Soil since 9/11..... but in Numbers of times we have been attacked literally thousands of times as Americans because of the fact that we are sitting, ill equipped Ducks in Iraq.... with faulty Body Armor, and non-adequate training, because our Natl Guard who are supposed to be filling Sand Bags in Mississippi are now filling Body Bags in Tikrit[/b]

[scrotos]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Oct 14 2005, 12:47 PM'][b][color="green"]Even More W Genius....[/color]

- Repealed the Davis Bacon Act - which means now NO reconstruction firms (his friends) can pay 5.15 an Hr instead of the going rate of 9 $ an hour.

[i]OK...I've got no defense for this one.[/i]

- Personally destroyed the English Language single handedly and rubbed off Hick texas pigeon off on Americas children

[i]Agreed...because "I wanna fuck you cousin" doesn't sound nearly as cool as "I wanna rub on off up in yo ass, cuz"[/i]

- Instituted "No Child Left Behind" which essentially now teaches Kids to pass the FCats and not to educate themselves.... Minorities test scores have tanked.... and now they are being left behind like he intended

[i]Well, the money is there, it's just that certain schools haven't filled out the proper paperwork to get it.  At least, that's what I read in National Review.[/i]

- Created a defacto Thoecratic Govt where now simply being a Born Again christian is enough to get you on the supreme court.... regularly meets with the likes of Dobson, Falwell, and Pat Robetson - Making the US the laughing stock of the World... and making us the Western Iran when it comes to our Christian style Mullahs

[i]When we Catholics say "We're Christians too!!", we get laughed at.  Where's JFK when we need him.[/i]

- Cut funding for Condom education in Africa under the premise that it was not moral.... Gave that $ to religious groups instead.... Aids rate is skyrocketing

- Curtailed sex education in Highschools and replaced it with Abstinence only teaching... the result is an alarming rate of STD's and now the avg girl and boy fuck before 14 and then don't use a condom

[i]But this is how you create a younger generation of high motor Defensive Ends that get picked around 17th in the draft.[/i]

- Cut the funding for Head Start (now poor kids start off behind in Kindergarten)
- Placed a Veternarian in charge of Womens Reproductive Issues in the Dept of Health (no joke)
- Placed countless unqualified cronies in office who have failed

[i]Cronyism has been around since Washington appointed the guy who carved his teeth as first Surgeon General[/i]

- Cut the Physical Education out of most Schools.... and now the rate of child obesity is going through the roof..... the kids are too busy trying to pass his stupid standardized Fcat test

[i]Getting drilled in the nutz in dodge ball, isn't the best way to get in shape.  I think this has more to do with more fattening foods, better video games, and flagging interest in youth sports.  The latter should change now that the Bengals rock.[/i]

- Lowered benefits for the Troops (did sell alot of magnets with support the troops) on them though

[i]Always wondered who gets the money for those.[/i]

- Now has Gas at about 3.20 $ a Gallon Up from 1.50 Where Clinton Left it

[i]This is a bit out of Dubya's control, so unfair.[/i]

- NYSE is down, Nasdaq is down, Unemployment is up, Crime is up, and the Minumum Wage hasn't moved

[i]This is a bit unfair as well....recession and all (those do happen)[/i]

- And now instead of Terrorists needing to attack Americans here.... they simply just attack Americans daily in Iraq.... we may not have been attacked on American Soil since 9/11..... but in Numbers of times we have been attacked literally thousands of times as Americans because of the fact that we are sitting, ill equipped Ducks in Iraq.... with faulty Body Armor, and non-adequate training, because our Natl Guard who are supposed to be filling Sand Bags in Mississippi are now filling Body Bags in Tikrit[/b]
[right][post="169377"][/post][/right][/quote]

Attempting to help out oldschooler and add some levity. Unfortunatley, I'm a moderate Republican who has lost his party to the religious right...so I'm not much help.

[Jason]

Why do I support Bush?

- He cut my taxes.
- There has not been a SINGLE successful terrorist attack on US soil since 9-11.
- I did not trust Kerry.
- He is nominating judges I can support.
- He took Saddam out of power. WMD or no, it was long past time for him to go.

Don't get me wrong. I have disagreed with more than a few things Bush has done, and would have liked to see a true conservative run against him in the 04 primary. But no one did, and Kerry was NOT an option.

As for turning a surplus into a deficit, the recession started during the Clinton administration, and 9-11 had [b]just a little bit to do with that[/b], don't you think? Besides, that surplus was purely on paper and projected for a decade. It was not real.

[Jamie_B]

Military Benefits have not been cut under Bush, this is a distortion. If anything Clinton cut some of the benefits because Tricare was installed during his term.

[url="http://factcheck.org/article144.html"]http://factcheck.org/article144.html[/url]

As far as Constitutional protections in reference to Religion, this is more a misrepresentation based in ignorance rather than a distortion. Read up on what separation of church and state really is rather than what you want it to be then I'd be happy to discuss.

Here is a good link for you on that.
[url="http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html"]http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html[/url]

[scrotos]

BTW.....financial statements do not lie. Here's a link to the US Government Financial statement for the year ended September 30th, 2000.

[url="http://fms.treas.gov/fr/00frusg/00stmt.pdf"]US Government 2000 Financial Statement[/url]

Note the "Net position, end of period"...this is the national debt. $5.9 trillion as of that date.

The $8 billion "budget surplus" is a bullshit number, especially when used in the same context as the current $8 trillion dollar debt. Makes it sound like the government has spent 3 times the amount of money brought in every year the last 5 years.

The National Debt has gone up up by roughly $2 trillion though. 9/11, et al helped this, but it's also worth a note that the debt would have remained fairly flat except for the tax cuts that were given. (Which I didn't complain about at the time).

Edit: Re-read BJ's first post....he didn't have $8 billion budget surplus in the same context as total debt....I apologize

[The Scales]

My topical answer.





I G N O R A N C E

[scrotos]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Oct 14 2005, 02:57 PM']Military Benefits have not been cut under Bush, this is a distortion. If anything Clinton cut some of the benefits because Tricare was installed during his term.

[url="http://factcheck.org/article144.html"]http://factcheck.org/article144.html[/url]

As far as Constitutional protections in reference to Religion, this is more a misrepresentation based in ignorance rather than a distortion. Read up on what separation of church and state really is rather than what you want it to be then I'd be happy to discuss.

[b]Here is a good link for you on that.
[url="http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html"]http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html[/url]
[right][post="169436"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/b][/quote]

OK...just read the noapathy link. Reads like a high school paper.
1. HUGE leap tying lack of prayer in schools to birth rates of unwed mothers, STDs, etc.
2. Very bad logical conclusion, saying that the "wall" (being church / state separation) was understood (by whom?) to be one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state. Meanwhile, two paragraphs up, the article states that Jefferson came up with the "separation of church and state" catch phrase because a Baptist church was afraid that another denomination was going to become the offical church of the US. Doesn't this imply a two way wall, where a certain denomination cannot acheive enough power / influence in government to become a de facto "Church of America"?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='scrotos' date='Oct 14 2005, 03:52 PM']OK...just read the noapathy link.  Reads like a high school paper.
1.  HUGE leap tying lack of prayer in schools to birth rates of unwed mothers, STDs, etc.
2.  Very bad logical conclusion, saying that the "wall" (being church / state separation) was understood (by whom?) to be one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state.  Meanwhile, two paragraphs up, the article states that Jefferson came up with the "separation of church and state" catch phrase because a Baptist church was afraid that another denomination was going to become the offical church of the US.  Doesn't this imply a two way wall, where a certain denomination cannot acheive enough power / influence in government to become a de facto "Church of America"?
[right][post="169454"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Perhaps a better article for you then.

[url="http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=9"]http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/sear...hp?ResourceID=9[/url]

My only point I'm trying to make is the idea that SCS is only there to keep us from having a national denomination, not to pull religon from the public square.

Edit: So I would ask then how is one denomination, or faith for that matter, have "power" over another? Show me some leagal cases that show this.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='The Scales' date='Oct 14 2005, 01:38 PM']My topical answer.
I G N O R A N C E
[right][post="169451"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



ignorance: NOUN: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.



I am none of the above.


There has never been a President or leader for that matter that
100% of the population agreed with everything they have done.

And please don `t use such a broad brush to paint people as "ignorant"
just because they don`t agree with you. That makes YOU look like
the "ignorant" one...

[KMHBB]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Oct 14 2005, 01:57 PM']Military Benefits have not been cut under Bush, this is a distortion. If anything Clinton cut some of the benefits because Tricare was installed during his term.

[url="http://factcheck.org/article144.html"]http://factcheck.org/article144.html[/url]

As far as Constitutional protections in reference to Religion, this is more a misrepresentation based in ignorance rather than a distortion. Read up on what separation of church and state really is rather than what you want it to be then I'd be happy to discuss.

Here is a good link for you on that.
[url="http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html"]http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html[/url]
[right][post="169436"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

1.) True, technically a cut would be described as a decrease, but using logical operators the valid argument can me made that if increases are not commissurate with demand then you have a de facto cut. For Example: My salary was cut this year. Not because my pay rate decreased but because what I have to pay to survive ( and continue to earn said salary ) has increased far beyond the increase in pay I recieved. If I tell you you must supply a certain group with some measurable assistance and you budget to supply less than the demand (that by the way you had a direct hand in increasing ) you have decreased the amount of assistance provided and therefore have not met your mandate. So we can argue semantics all day the reality is still the same.

2.) I have read the document you linked about the so called myth of sep of church and state numerous times. It is an invalid argument based on a false assumption regarding the meaning of Jeffersons wording. It has been used throughout this administrations terms to justify the attempted establishment of an evangelicle theocracy. Please study several other writings regarding the establishment clause, why the framers felt it must be included first, the framers other writings regarding the meaning of the clause, supreme court decisions based on the clause, recent case law on the role of government in religion and religion in government and the current US codes on the subject. Then well talk.

any and all of these can be found at numerous sources on the web, including the library of congress, find law, supreme court.gov (not sure if that is the full url but you get my point) Fist, however, I would pull out a copy of the Constitution and reread the 1st amendment.

A secular gov. is far and away superior to any form of religous law. It protects both the religous from interference by the gov. and the gov. and governed from interference by religion, and the latter is running rampant in the years since his holiness george took the office and attempted to turn it into a throne.

and somebody said because he cut my taxes..........hmmmmm what did you do with your 300$ check, and do you own a home have your property taxes increased or decreased from lack of funding in other areas. HMMMMMMMMMM

Meanwhile check the tax rates on corps. and profit vs hiring numbers for the last 4-5 years.

His latest tax proposal is to partially or completely do away with your deduction for your mortgage interest. I dont know about you but I will be severely hurt by that, along with the fact that no one I know has had a pay increase big enough to cover the increased costs of healthcare and energy for at least the last 2 years.

There are a very few people who are getting very rich of the back of everyone else in this country and sooner or later a breaking point will be reached.

I still dont see how anyone can support this flunky.

[KMHBB]

BTW removing religion from the public square isnt the idea. That is a fallacy created by the religious right. The idea is to remove any authority it has in the legal square, where everyone one must be equal or none are. ie public school is not the public square, it is state funded education based on law. Therefore cannot be subject to any religous doctrine.

BTW dont we have a game against TN this weekend. Im starting to miss talking about football on my football forum