DanvilleBengal Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 [quote name='NASTYNATI' post='219564' date='Feb 17 2006, 09:43 PM']do you really believe this??? your saying that because hes a safety he should be one of the leading tacklers???[/quote] Jamie's got a point, Nasty. Most starting safeties are going to have a lot of tackles because often times they have to be the ones that have to tackle the reciever or running back if they get past the line. KK was playing strong safety in the beginning of the year, which meant that eight times out of ten, KK was going to have to go down in the box and butt heads with the running back. A safety is like having a fourth (or fifth, depends on base defense) LB on the field. You can blitz them and have them get sacks like the Cardinals's Adrian Wilson (8 sacks as a SS). You could leave them in coverage and have them defend the pass and pick off passes (Ed Reed with 9 picks last year). You could have them up in the box helping in the running game (John Lynch, Roy Williams), or you can have a guy that can do it all (Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu). With a guy that can do all those things wrapped up in a single player, you would expect them to have their fair share of tackles, if not more. Just because KK was playing safety this year doesn't automatically tell you that he will make a lot of tackles. Look at all the things that he has to do in a game at his position, and also look at the way that the rest of the defense played, and that should tell you the whole story as to how the defense played. Sure, the linebackers should have the most tackles, then the safeties. With KK ranked #2 on the team in tackles made, that tells me that there was a lot of over-pursuit and that many of KK's tackles were in an attempt to make up for the over pursuit. In a short answer, I agree with Jamie. The fact that KK was a safety did mean that he has to make a lot of tackles, but that is the nature of the position; he is the last line of defense, and if he isn't going to stop them, who will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 [quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='219566' date='Feb 17 2006, 10:18 PM'][quote name='NASTYNATI' post='219564' date='Feb 17 2006, 09:43 PM'] do you really believe this??? your saying that because hes a safety he should be one of the leading tacklers???[/quote] Jamie's got a point, Nasty. Most starting safeties are going to have a lot of tackles because often times they have to be the ones that have to tackle the reciever or running back if they get past the line. KK was playing strong safety in the beginning of the year, which meant that eight times out of ten, KK was going to have to go down in the box and butt heads with the running back. A safety is like having a fourth (or fifth, depends on base defense) LB on the field. You can blitz them and have them get sacks like the Cardinals's Adrian Wilson (8 sacks as a SS). You could leave them in coverage and have them defend the pass and pick off passes (Ed Reed with 9 picks last year). You could have them up in the box helping in the running game (John Lynch, Roy Williams), or you can have a guy that can do it all (Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu). With a guy that can do all those things wrapped up in a single player, you would expect them to have their fair share of tackles, if not more. Just because KK was playing safety this year doesn't automatically tell you that he will make a lot of tackles. Look at all the things that he has to do in a game at his position, and also look at the way that the rest of the defense played, and that should tell you the whole story as to how the defense played. Sure, the linebackers should have the most tackles, then the safeties. With KK ranked #2 on the team in tackles made, that tells me that there was a lot of over-pursuit and that many of KK's tackles were in an attempt to make up for the over pursuit. In a short answer, I agree with Jamie. The fact that KK was a safety did mean that he has to make a lot of tackles, but that is the nature of the position; he is the last line of defense, and if he isn't going to stop them, who will? [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASTYNATI Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='219650' date='Feb 18 2006, 02:09 AM'][quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='219566' date='Feb 17 2006, 10:18 PM'] [quote name='NASTYNATI' post='219564' date='Feb 17 2006, 09:43 PM'] do you really believe this??? your saying that because hes a safety he should be one of the leading tacklers???[/quote] Jamie's got a point, Nasty. Most starting safeties are going to have a lot of tackles because often times they have to be the ones that have to tackle the reciever or running back if they get past the line. KK was playing strong safety in the beginning of the year, which meant that eight times out of ten, KK was going to have to go down in the box and butt heads with the running back. A safety is like having a fourth (or fifth, depends on base defense) LB on the field. You can blitz them and have them get sacks like the Cardinals's Adrian Wilson (8 sacks as a SS). You could leave them in coverage and have them defend the pass and pick off passes (Ed Reed with 9 picks last year). You could have them up in the box helping in the running game (John Lynch, Roy Williams), or you can have a guy that can do it all (Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu). With a guy that can do all those things wrapped up in a single player, you would expect them to have their fair share of tackles, if not more. Just because KK was playing safety this year doesn't automatically tell you that he will make a lot of tackles. Look at all the things that he has to do in a game at his position, and also look at the way that the rest of the defense played, and that should tell you the whole story as to how the defense played. Sure, the linebackers should have the most tackles, then the safeties. With KK ranked #2 on the team in tackles made, that tells me that there was a lot of over-pursuit and that many of KK's tackles were in an attempt to make up for the over pursuit. In a short answer, I agree with Jamie. The fact that KK was a safety did mean that he has to make a lot of tackles, but that is the nature of the position; he is the last line of defense, and if he isn't going to stop them, who will? [/quote] [/quote] while i understand your logic, im still going to argue that KK is a starter in this league... ohelate on the other hand well hes not even worth warming the pine up for anyone on this team or the league period! point is, give the man credit where its due and right now SS isnt our weakest position or link, its our DLine... again we will see what happens on draft day but look for KK to be our starting SS come week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvilleBengal Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 [quote name='NASTYNATI' post='219652' date='Feb 18 2006, 03:17 AM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='219650' date='Feb 18 2006, 02:09 AM'] [quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='219566' date='Feb 17 2006, 10:18 PM'] [quote name='NASTYNATI' post='219564' date='Feb 17 2006, 09:43 PM'] do you really believe this??? your saying that because hes a safety he should be one of the leading tacklers???[/quote] Jamie's got a point, Nasty. Most starting safeties are going to have a lot of tackles because often times they have to be the ones that have to tackle the reciever or running back if they get past the line. KK was playing strong safety in the beginning of the year, which meant that eight times out of ten, KK was going to have to go down in the box and butt heads with the running back. A safety is like having a fourth (or fifth, depends on base defense) LB on the field. You can blitz them and have them get sacks like the Cardinals's Adrian Wilson (8 sacks as a SS). You could leave them in coverage and have them defend the pass and pick off passes (Ed Reed with 9 picks last year). You could have them up in the box helping in the running game (John Lynch, Roy Williams), or you can have a guy that can do it all (Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu). With a guy that can do all those things wrapped up in a single player, you would expect them to have their fair share of tackles, if not more. Just because KK was playing safety this year doesn't automatically tell you that he will make a lot of tackles. Look at all the things that he has to do in a game at his position, and also look at the way that the rest of the defense played, and that should tell you the whole story as to how the defense played. Sure, the linebackers should have the most tackles, then the safeties. With KK ranked #2 on the team in tackles made, that tells me that there was a lot of over-pursuit and that many of KK's tackles were in an attempt to make up for the over pursuit. In a short answer, I agree with Jamie. The fact that KK was a safety did mean that he has to make a lot of tackles, but that is the nature of the position; he is the last line of defense, and if he isn't going to stop them, who will? [/quote] [/quote] while i understand your logic, im still going to argue that KK is a starter in this league... ohelate on the other hand well hes not even worth warming the pine up for anyone on this team or the league period! point is, give the man credit where its due and right now SS isnt our weakest position or link, its our DLine... again we will see what happens on draft day but look for KK to be our starting SS come week 1. [/quote] I'm not saying that KK can't be a starter, I'm just saying that he can't be a really good one. I will give him credit that he played so far above his head that he should have been considered for the Pro Bowl if he didn't have to move to FS when Madieu got hurt. But he is a stopgap at best. Sure, he has proved that he can be a starter for a whole season, but I saw his play fall off as the season progressed. Part of that is that he was moved to FS from strong, and also playing with OhIhatehim didn't help his cause. But some of it is on the lack of athleticism he has. KK is 6'1, 195 lbs, and a former cornerback. He isn't the enforcer in the middle of the field that Madieu is. He isn't as fast as Madieu either, nor has the quickness to read the QB's eyes and react. Simply put, when KK plays center field, opponents can just run a 9 route up the sideline and burn us for a huge play, because KK can't reach the sidelines from center field. This was one of the reasons (other than Ohalate starting ) that we fared so poorly in pass defense as the year went on. KK lacks the ideal range for a starting safety. I will give you the fact that KK knows the defense better than any secondary player, which explains why Madieu has blossomed into a star so quickly. He is even an effective blitzer, with numerous QB pressures as well as a couple of sacks. And he does have a nose for the ball (9 career INTs, 4 recovered fumbles, 1 defensive TD) However, I think that Marvin still has to draft a premier safety to pair with Madieu, but KK has a spot on this team. If KK is the starting SS at the start of next season, I won't have a problem with it, but I think that he isn't quite suited to be one. He has the mentality and toughness to be an adequate starter, but his lack of athletic gifts will relegate him to a backup role. If he does start next season, it'll be until the rookie is ready to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBZ Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 [quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='219654' date='Feb 18 2006, 04:19 AM']I'm not saying that KK can't be a starter, I'm just saying that he can't be a really good one. I will give him credit that he played so far above his head that he should have been considered for the Pro Bowl if he didn't have to move to FS when Madieu got hurt. But he is a stopgap at best. Sure, he has proved that he can be a starter for a whole season, but I saw his play fall off as the season progressed. Part of that is that he was moved to FS from strong, and also playing with OhIhatehim didn't help his cause. But some of it is on the lack of athleticism he has. KK is 6'1, 195 lbs, and a former cornerback. He isn't the enforcer in the middle of the field that Madieu is. He isn't as fast as Madieu either, nor has the quickness to read the QB's eyes and react. Simply put, when KK plays center field, opponents can just run a 9 route up the sideline and burn us for a huge play, because KK can't reach the sidelines from center field. This was one of the reasons (other than Ohalate starting ) that we fared so poorly in pass defense as the year went on. KK lacks the ideal range for a starting safety. I will give you the fact that KK knows the defense better than any secondary player, which explains why Madieu has blossomed into a star so quickly. He is even an effective blitzer, with numerous QB pressures as well as a couple of sacks. And he does have a nose for the ball (9 career INTs, 4 recovered fumbles, 1 defensive TD) However, I think that Marvin still has to draft a premier safety to pair with Madieu, but KK has a spot on this team. If KK is the starting SS at the start of next season, I won't have a problem with it, but I think that he isn't quite suited to be one. He has the mentality and toughness to be an adequate starter, but his lack of athletic gifts will relegate him to a backup role. If he does start next season, it'll be until the rookie is ready to take over.[/quote] Great post... BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Williams, Herring, NEO, and some draftees should be plenty at saftey this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWretchedMass Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 IMO, Hope is playing out of place at FS in Pitt. He is definately better suited to be playing SS. If we brought him in and moved him to SS then our problems would be solved. He can play SS and rotate around to FS when called upon to do so. KK had more tackles cause the Pitt front 7 didn't let as many RBs into their backfield as we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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