Guest BadassBengal Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276200' date='Jun 1 2006, 10:51 PM'][b]these are not mutually exclusive ..... and our constitution gives us the right to know whom our government detains and why they detain them .... we also have the right to have our congress declare WAR before our army invades another country .... we didn't do that ..... you can't have POW's without a delcared WAR thus these guys are victims of kidnapping anyway you slice it [/b][/quote] Why do you go out of your way to defend those who propose a threat to Bush's government no matter how crazy horrible their crimes may have been? I see them as prisoners of the war on terror. YOU see it as kidnapping. I see it as Homeland Security. Whatever, though. You're never gonna change your ideas, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Can someone PLEASE explain to me the difference between Moussaoui and these detainees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='#22' post='276205' date='Jun 1 2006, 10:56 PM'][img]http://home.online.no/~ptrptr/road/Extra/sheep.gif[/img] say the people who don't value knowing anything[/quote] Breaking news.... The government is going to start monitoring phone conversations from a suspected terrorist at this phone number (###)###-####. Standby, we let you know if they hear anything important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Homer_Rice' post='276204' date='Jun 1 2006, 10:56 PM']What is a terrorist?[/quote] [b]Duh Homer ... it isn't terrorism when we do it .... didn't you get the memo .... They crash a plane and kill 3,000 of our people = Terrorism We bomb the fuck out of Iraq and kill 30,000 = Liberation Now those will say that we only struck Govt targets .... well on 9/11 the attackers also targeted govt targets / the Pentagon and the WTC which housed offices for the CIA, FBI, IRS, etc etc etc .... [i](plus there are mysteries surrounding who even attacked us on 9/11 - for my money see Mossad and the PNAC[/b] [/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276212' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:03 PM']Can someone PLEASE explain to me the difference between Moussaoui and these detainees?[/quote] Moussaoui was on our soil, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276210' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:00 PM']And some have survival on their minds. Love and hate isn't even in the equation.[/quote] [b]Are you saying that an Afghani boy who got word that the U.S was invading his country couldn't have had "Survival" on his mind when he shot at our troops ? [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnsons4Life Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276196' date='Jun 1 2006, 09:48 PM'][b] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] these guys were in the mountains of Afghanistan .... they had no part in 9/11 .... and believe me if they did, we would have put them on a show trial already .... WE INVADED AFGHANISTAN and they were there ..... it isn't like they invaded the U.S. .... they happened to be in the country they lived in ... and we swooped them up and now we are not saying why we are holding them ... or trying them for anything .... [/b][/quote] They invaded the US so then we retaliated. Thats how wars start. I can see how people can stick up for not going into iraq. There are many points about that. But as far as not going into afghanistan that is completely stupid. Their government at the time started this war. Whether the population wanted us there or not it was going to happen because they let an idiot get power over there. We are not just swooping people up and sending them to gitmo. I'm sure they were doing something stupid to fly over to cuba. I understand some people want fair trials for these guys. But I would rather have them locked up w/o a trial than on the loose again trying to kill some more soldiers or create havoc with the police or afghan army. So if there are a couple of guys innocent of all crimes than its just too bad i guess. That stuff happens in our own prison system. Nothing can be perfect when run by people as we all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BadassBengal Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276212' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:03 PM']Can someone PLEASE explain to me the difference between Moussaoui and these detainees?[/quote] Because Moussaoui was captured on American soil, I believe. People in Gitmo were captured overseas, and brought there. Of course, I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276209' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:00 PM'][b]EXACTLY !!! you are making my point for me .... we are calling them POW's [/b] [/quote] Is the government calling them POW's, or is the media. If is the gov. got me on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276214' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:04 PM'][b]Duh Homer ... it isn't terrorism when we do it .... didn't you get the memo .... They crash a plane and kill 3,000 of our people = Terrorism We bomb the fuck out of Iraq and kill 30,000 = Liberation Now those will say that we only struck Govt targets .... well on 9/11 the attackers also targeted govt targets / the Pentagon and the WTC which housed offices for the CIA, FBI, IRS, etc etc etc .... [i](plus there are mysteries surrounding who even attacked us on 9/11 - for my money see Mossad and the PNAC[/b] [/i][/quote] Do you belive either of them did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276216' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:06 PM'][b]Are you saying that an Afghani boy who got word that the U.S was invading his country couldn't have had "Survival" on his mind when he shot at our troops ? [/b][/quote] Not at all. Im quite sure he did. I however fail to see how that has anything to do with the idea of love and hate as it relates to surviving in a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276216' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:06 PM'][b]Are you saying that an Afghani boy who got word that the U.S was invading his country couldn't have had "Survival" on his mind when he shot at our troops ? [/b][/quote] I don't blame the children, since most have had ideas put in their heads all of their lives. That's the same over hear though, when you have dumn ass parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276221' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:08 PM']Not at all. Im quite sure he did. I however fail to see how that has anything to do with the idea of love and hate as it relates to surviving in a war.[/quote] [b]it relates because the afghan detainee could have taken a shot at our guys and thus we arrested him and threw him in Gitmo .... he said that those at Gitmo had hate in their hearts and thus should die .... I contend that under that argument then our guys would also have hate to kill. If you are going to say that we can kill free of hate .... then you have to recognize that they can also kill free of hate .... If you are going to say that we can kill out of duty or survival ... then you have to recognize that they can kill out of duty and survival ....[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BadassBengal Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276216' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:06 PM'][b]Are you saying that an Afghani boy who got word that the U.S was invading his country couldn't have had "Survival" on his mind when he shot at our troops ? [/b][/quote] As much as you want to twist it, we DID tell them that we were coming to their country to "liberate" them and what not. We didnt go in without telling their people or anybody what we were doing it for. Then after our message was delivered, it was up to this "Afghani boy" to make up his mind on who he should trust and all that shit. He shouldn't have had to have "survival" on his mind if he would have just listened to what we said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Johnsons4Life' post='276217' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:06 PM']They invaded the US so then we retaliated. Thats how wars start. I can see how people can stick up for not going into iraq. There are many points about that. But as far as not going into afghanistan that is completely stupid. Their government at the time started this war. Whether the population wanted us there or not it was going to happen because they let an idiot get power over there. We are not just swooping people up and sending them to gitmo. I'm sure they were doing something stupid to fly over to cuba. I understand some people want fair trials for these guys. But I would rather have them locked up w/o a trial than on the loose again trying to kill some more soldiers or create havoc with the police or afghan army. So if there are a couple of guys innocent of all crimes than its just too bad i guess. That stuff happens in our own prison system. Nothing can be perfect when run by people as we all know.[/quote] I don't know the numbers, but I heard that there is a decent percentage of those released that they find fighting against us again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BadassBengal' post='276218' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:06 PM']Because Moussaoui was captured on American soil, I believe. People in Gitmo were captured overseas, and brought there. Of course, I could be wrong.[/quote] No your right he was captured in Minnesota. But what does that have to do with their crimes? We extradite people and try them from other countries all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276223' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:10 PM'][b]it relates because the afghan detainee could have taken a shot at our guys and thus we arrested him and threw him in Gitmo .... he said that those at Gitmo had hate in their hearts and thus should die .... I contend that under that argument then our guys would also have hate to kill. If you are going to say that we can kill free of hate .... then you have to recognize that they can also kill free of hate .... If you are going to say that we can kill out of duty or survival ... then you have to recognize that they can kill out of duty and survival ....[/b][/quote] Thats a circular argument in which all parties in War are guilty. I dont buy you really believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BadassBengal' post='276224' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:11 PM']it was up to this "Afghani boy" to make up his mind on who he should trust and all that shit. He shouldn't have had to have "survival" on his mind if he would have just listened to what we said.[/quote] [b]So if you got word that the Chinese Army was swooping into invade Cincinnati tomorrow .... you would just take the position of doing what you're told ??? Some people in Afghanistan liked the Taliban Govt .... hell we put them in power. Why the fuck were they supposed to just let us topple their govt ? Because some supposed US trained Osama could have knocked down the WTC ? This hasn't been proven by the way. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276223' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:10 PM'][b]it relates because the afghan detainee could have taken a shot at our guys and thus we arrested him and threw him in Gitmo .... he said that those at Gitmo had hate in their hearts and thus should die .... I contend that under that argument then our guys would also have hate to kill. If you are going to say that we can kill free of hate .... then you have to recognize that they can also kill free of hate .... If you are going to say that we can kill out of duty or survival ... then you have to recognize that they can kill out of duty and survival ....[/b][/quote] My comment was not to say that they should die just because of hate in their hearts. That was my approach on the death penalty. They should die if they are trying to kill innocent people. War is War, but straping bombs to your body or hiding IED is something different. Kill those SOB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276227' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:13 PM']Thats a circular argument in which all parties in War are guilty. I dont buy you really believe that.[/quote] [b]In their own reality yes it is that way .... I don't doubt for 1 second that they view themself as fighting against evil fucks who are invading their nation .... We loved that the Afghans didn't want to be invaded when the Soviets invaded them .... we rooted them on as they blew up Soviet tank after tank ..... We helped train Osama during this time ..... Now when we invade them we wonder why they don;t want to be invaded ??? [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kool Keith Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276212' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:03 PM']Can someone PLEASE explain to me the difference between Moussaoui and these detainees?[/quote] Evidence, plus he was a symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Die Hard Orange and Black' post='276229' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:15 PM']My comment was not to say that they should die just because of hate in their hearts. That was my approach on the death penalty. They should die if they are trying to kill innocent people. War is War, but straping bombs to your body or hiding IED is something different. Kill those SOB's[/quote] Disagree. Those are gurrillia tatics, not much different than the type of tatics we used against Britian. (Other than the grade of artillery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BadassBengal Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='276226' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:11 PM']No your right he was captured in Minnesota. But what does that have to do with their crimes? We extradite people and try them from other countries all the time.[/quote] I dunno, man. That's just what I learned in my Current Issues class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='Die Hard Orange and Black' post='276229' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:15 PM']They should die if they are trying to kill innocent people. War is War, [u]but straping bombs to your body or hiding IED is something different.[/u] Kill those SOB's[/quote] [b] WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY DID ANY OF THAT .... because we won't try them for anything !!!! [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Orange and Black Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='276228' date='Jun 1 2006, 11:14 PM'][b] Some people in Afghanistan liked the Taliban Govt .... hell we put them in power. Why the fuck were they supposed to just let us topple their govt ?[/b][/quote] We put, or atleast had part in a lot of govs. I got an idea. Let's take over the world. Think we could do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.