As the Dollar Drops

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

Here's a great article that sums up what we were discussing. Bush should do something before it becomes a major problem.

[url="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=12&u=/ap/dropping_dollar"]Click Here[/url]

[Guest bengalrick]

yes, that was a very unbiased evaluation of the situation...

it is a problem, and will only be solved if bush can cut the deficit, like he said he can...

i caught this at the end of the article i didn't know:

[quote]Economists say the U.S. trade situation is unlikely to improve significantly unless China stops pegging its currency to the dollar and lets it be set by market forces. U.S. manufacturers contend that China's currency is undervalued by as much as 40 percent, giving Chinese companies a big competitive advantage over U.S. companies.[/quote]

there are many reasons for this, but the main reason is probably the deficit...

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='bengalrick' date='Feb 4 2005, 01:26 PM']yes, that was a very unbiased evaluation of the situation...

it is a problem, and will only be solved if bush can cut the deficit, like he said he can...

i caught this at the end of the article i didn't know:
there are many reasons for this, but the main reason is probably the deficit...
[right][post="42947"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Here's another article that futher explains the situation.[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3999825.stm#"]Click Here[/url]

[|Tigers Johnson|]

Don't forget the great Al Gore invented the internet!! lmao [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='Feb 4 2005, 02:15 PM']Don't forget the great Al Gore invented the internet!! lmao [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
[right][post="42987"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


What??? How is that relivant to the topic???

[Guest bengalrick]

[url="http://news.ft.com/cms/s/0a07b7a6-8a49-11d9-98b6-00000e2511c8.html"]click here...[/url]



now the euro is on its way down... i guess the month of vacation that is mandidtory in france and germany is not paying off...


you can call our dollar unstable now, but how long will that be the case? our economy is booming and old europes economy is... well, pretty comical...

german Unemployment rate right now... 11.7 percent...

i brought this topic back up, b/c we are about to see a big swing, and like i explained earlier in this thread, thats not necessarily a good thing...

[Homer_Rice]

August 15, 1971.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Mar 2 2005, 11:44 AM']August 15, 1971.
[right][post="54450"][/post][/right][/quote]
I am now officially confused!
What is the significance of that date?

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 2 2005, 12:51 PM']I am now officially confused!
What is the significance of that date?

[right][post="54457"][/post][/right][/quote]

That's the day the gold standard was dropped and the dollar began to float. The Chinese, if they are smart, will resist the pressures we are exerting to get them to float the renmibi.

Everyone has made interesting and good points in this thread (except all the left vs. right nonsense), but the bottom line is this: unless we rebuild the country, we are fucked.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Mar 2 2005, 11:57 AM']That's the day the gold standard was dropped and the dollar began to float. The Chinese, if they are smart, will resist the pressures we are exerting to get them to float the renmibi.

Everyone has made interesting and good points in this thread (except all the left vs. right nonsense), but the bottom line is this: unless we rebuild the country, we are fucked.
[right][post="54466"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
Rebuild in what way? How are we fucked?
I'm a little ignorant when it comes to financial matters vis a vis how it affects our market, wall street, the global markets, weak vs strong currencies, etc...
How was what we did with the gold standard a bad thing? Is it because our currency's value is no longer "backed" by gold?

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 2 2005, 12:59 PM']Rebuild in what way?  How are we fucked?
I'm a little ignorant when it comes to financial matters vis a vis how it affects our market, wall street, the global markets, weak vs strong currencies, etc...
How was what we did with the gold standard a bad thing?  Is it because our currency's value is no longer "backed" by gold?
[right][post="54468"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Here's my two bits, and I'll try to make my points not from the perspective of "money" per se, but from a more easily understood perspective, that of the production of physical "stuff."

There are lots of ways to describe an economy, economics, etc. Here are two descriptions that I find appealing:

1) Economics is the realm/manner in which a society reproduces itself;
2) Economics is the application of morality on a broad scale.

Considering these two facets of the diamond, so to speak, it's clear that we have not done a very good job of either of these over the course of the past forty years or so. There are lots of causes for this, one key exemplar is the tension between guns vs butter (Vietnam expenses/Great Society expenses), i.e. the shift away from making tangible products towards speculation, on one hand, and a service sector economy, on the other. The currently prevailing dogmas over the course of my lifetime have been "post-industrial society", the "service sector of the economy", the "new economy", "sustainability", etc... All of these are, in one fashion or another, attacks on the fundamentals of economics: produce enough "stuff" to provide a rising living standard for a population, and do it in such a way that enough profit is generated to reinvest in society to meet the needs of the future. This is what bothers me about our current state of politics: we need a vibrant (and ethical) private sector to drive technology and improvement in society and we also need government to set the tone and to coordinate the really big projects/goals that cannot be done by the private sector. What we have now is a false disjunction between these two necessities, and tons of childish arguments on both sides--while "Rome" is burning.

The significance of floating the dollar in 1971 is that it marks a different policy emphasis becoming dominant: the end of the economic processes which rebuilt the world after WWII and the beginning of the slow decline we have been experiencing since the late 60s/early 70s. Look at the big picture: reinvestment in basic infrastructure is not keeping pace with the need for replacing aging road systems, health delivery systems, water and electrical generation systems, etc. In addition, living standards for the general population have declined as well. This may seem difficult to see at first glance, but if you think on it long enough and review enough evidence, you'll find that we have been "cannibalizing" our society for quite some time now.

We do not make "things" anymore. The poster who mentioned looting a la Rome is not off the mark, that's exactly what we have been doing; that's what this trade deficit stuff is all about. Furthermore, because we do not make things, our labor force is not as skilled as it once was, and as a result, the jobs available to everyday working class folk are more limited than previously. There are fewer tradecraft skills and more unskilled service jobs, with all that entails with respect to earning power.

At the end of WWII, Churchill and Roosevelt disagreed to some extent on the nature of post-war policy. Essentially, Roosevelt wanted to end colonialism while Churchill (and other countries, too) wanted to regain their dominance in the 3rd world. The tension between these two conflicting policy orientations explains much of the history between then and now. We successfully rebuilt Europe, we also allowed the nastiness of colonialism, in economic forms primarily, to re-root. Why were we in Vietnam? Why were the French? (Just to cite one example.) Look at Africa, Southwest Asia, even Latin America.

So, why are we fucked? Because just as all good things come to an end, so do bad things. Only bad-ending dynamics tend to lead to even more hellish conditions. The world economy is about ready to blow out and we have dithered so long that we may not be able to prevent it. We have not made the policy choices which would fully satisfy the first description I mentioned, and that is primarily because we have lost sight of the second description.

The gold standard, in itself, is not key (except to those who make a fetish out of money.) What is key is that there needs to be stable currency exchange rates so companies and governments can, with confidence, engage in long term planning and investment without fears of inflation or even worse, hyperinflation. It takes a long time to build a transportation system; it is a substantial investment. A company or a government ought to have reasonable confidence that the conditions for making huge investments are stable. With floating exchange rates, such stability is not guarenteed and even worse, currency vultures can ruin the economy of a country by speculation. (See Asian Tiger crisis of 1997/8.)

In any case, it wasn't Clinton, it wasn't Bush, it was Johnson and Nixon. Unfortunately, a lot of the folks who screwed it up then are still around to screw it up now. We will need to insist on some common sense from our representatives on both sides of the aisle when this crisis hits in full force, though in truth, we are in the midst of it right now, and have been for a long time.

Remember the old story about the guy who thought he could fly? He leapt off the top of the highest building in his town, and as he soared downward he was heard to say, "So far, so good."

[Beaker]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Jan 12 2005, 04:56 PM']
[url="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/topnews/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050112/economy_9.html"]Click Here[/url]

thanks to Duh-bu-ya's horrible fiscal policies

Which policies would those be? Be specific please. The dollar is simply in a low cycle.

Job outsourcing happens due to our manufacturing sector becoming more technologically advanced. Dont need as much middle labor. The low end labor can be done cheaper in other countries thanks to our wonderful labor unions and NAFTA.

A better focus than being alarmist would be to offer solutions to the main problems. Those would be reforming welfare and education of lower income people. The major obstacle to education has been the prevalence of single parent families and lack of value of an education in the home. The kids have to get to school and have to believe an education is the way to better themselves. Right now instant gratification rules. Thinking they will get rich selling drugs or making the NBA is holding poor kids back.

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='Beaker' date='Mar 2 2005, 04:16 PM']
[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Jan 12 2005, 04:56 PM']
[url="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/topnews/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050112/economy_9.html"]Click Here[/url]

thanks to Duh-bu-ya's horrible fiscal policies

Which policies would those be? Be specific please. The dollar is simply in a low cycle.

Job outsourcing happens due to our manufacturing sector becoming more technologically advanced. Dont need as much middle labor. The low end labor can be done cheaper in other countries thanks to our wonderful labor unions and NAFTA.

[b]A better focus than being alarmist would be to offer solutions to the main problems. Those would be reforming welfare and education of lower income people. The major obstacle to education has been the prevalence of single parent families and lack of value of an education in the home. The kids have to get to school and have to believe an education is the way to better themselves. Right now instant gratification rules. Thinking they will get rich selling drugs or making the NBA is holding poor kids back.[/b]
[right][post="54670"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right]
[/quote]


Beaker youre an racist ignorant bastard, what the hell does the value of the dollar have to with that bullshit you just posted?

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 2 2005, 04:14 PM']Beaker youre an racist ignorant bastard, what the hell does the value of the dollar have to with that bullshit you just posted?
[right][post="54723"][/post][/right][/quote]




I don`t see a thing posted saying anythig about race.
I guess the drugs & nba thing is what you`re talknig about ?

Yeah no white guys play in the nba or sell drugs .......

[Beaker]

So since you cant quote policy you resort to calling me racist? Typical of someone who is part of the problem. I posted those in response to your quote concerning outsourcing.

Outsourcing and the dollars fluctuations are not the root of the problem. Your title had the sub line of the rich get richer, etc. Lack of education is what holds people back more than anything else...Bush's policies included. People need to get better education in more technical disciplines to be more successful in todays world. Even you cant deny that. Crow about big bad Bushs "failed" policies all you want, bottom line is the real failure is in the home.

[Beaker]

PS...you post crap like calling for Rumsfeld to be shot and you call ME ignorant?

[Guest bengalrick]

the only way that can be considered racist is if you ASSUME he's talking about only black people... i didn't take it that way, and what really gets me is if anyone tries to give a real good point, all the suddent their racist?!?

sorry smoov, but i think you took everything out of context... the problem w/ the poorer parts or america, is they are always looking for a handout... if you are given anything (say a car for an easy comparison) you are not as likely to take care of it... i bought my first car when i was 17, with my money and a co-signer and built up my own credit... anytime that car was halfway dirty, i washed the shit out of it...

beaker is right on the money, and for the poorer communities to get out of that mess, they need to have a stable family, and good education... its a slow process, but it works, unlike welfare and affirmative action... i'm not saying that neither of these programs have any use, but both are abused to the fullest...

i guess you can call me racist too smoov, if you decide to use the work black instead of poor, but b/c i live in a community of about 2% african american population, personally, i'm talking about white's not blacks...

i think beaker's comments are right on the money, and should be considered by ALL people as something to follow...

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Mar 2 2005, 01:38 PM']Here's my two bits, and I'll try to make my points not from the perspective of "money" per se, but from a more easily understood perspective, that of the production of physical "stuff."

There are lots of ways to describe an economy, economics, etc. Here are two descriptions that I find appealing:

1) Economics is the realm/manner in which a society reproduces itself;
2) Economics is the application of morality on a broad scale.

Considering these two facets of the diamond, so to speak, it's clear that we have not done a very good job of either of these over the course of the past forty years or so. There are lots of causes for this, one key exemplar is the tension between guns vs butter (Vietnam expenses/Great Society expenses), i.e. the shift away from making tangible products towards speculation, on one hand, and a service sector economy, on the other. The currently prevailing dogmas over the course of my lifetime have been "post-industrial society", the "service sector of the economy", the "new economy", "sustainability", etc... All of these are, in one fashion or another, attacks on the fundamentals of economics: produce enough "stuff" to provide a rising living standard for a population, and do it in such a way that enough profit is generated to reinvest in society to meet the needs of the future. This is what bothers me about our current state of politics: we need a vibrant (and ethical) private sector to drive technology and improvement in society and we also need government to set the tone and to coordinate the really big projects/goals that cannot be done by the private sector. What we have now is a false disjunction between these two necessities, and tons of childish arguments on both sides--while "Rome" is burning.

The significance of floating the dollar in 1971 is that it marks a different policy emphasis becoming dominant: the end of the economic processes which rebuilt the world after WWII and the beginning of the slow decline we have been experiencing since the late 60s/early 70s. Look at the big picture: reinvestment in basic infrastructure is not keeping pace with the need for replacing aging road systems, health delivery systems, water and electrical generation systems, etc. In addition, living standards for the general population have declined as well. This may seem difficult to see at first glance, but if you think on it long enough and review enough evidence, you'll find that we have been "cannibalizing" our society for quite some time now.

We do not make "things" anymore. The poster who mentioned looting a la Rome is not off the mark, that's exactly what we have been doing; that's what this trade deficit stuff is all about. Furthermore, because we do not make things, our labor force is not as skilled as it once was, and as a result, the jobs available to everyday working class folk are more limited than previously. There are fewer tradecraft skills and more unskilled service jobs, with all that entails with respect to earning power.

At the end of WWII, Churchill and Roosevelt disagreed to some extent on the nature of post-war policy. Essentially, Roosevelt wanted to end colonialism while Churchill (and other countries, too) wanted to regain their dominance in the 3rd world. The tension between these two conflicting policy orientations explains much of the history between then and now. We successfully rebuilt Europe, we also allowed the nastiness of colonialism, in economic forms primarily, to re-root. Why were we in Vietnam? Why were the French? (Just to cite one example.) Look at Africa, Southwest Asia, even Latin America.

So, why are we fucked? Because just as all good things come to an end, so do bad things. Only bad-ending dynamics tend to lead to even more hellish conditions. The world economy is about ready to blow out and we have dithered so long that we may not be able to prevent it. We have not made the policy choices which would fully satisfy the first description I mentioned, and that is primarily because we have lost sight of the second description.

The gold standard, in itself, is not key (except to those who make a fetish out of money.) What is key is that there needs to be stable currency exchange rates so companies and governments can, with confidence, engage in long term planning and investment without fears of inflation or even worse, hyperinflation. It takes a long time to build a transportation system; it is a substantial investment. A company or a government ought to have reasonable confidence that the conditions for making huge investments are stable. With floating exchange rates, such stability is not guarenteed and even worse, currency vultures can ruin the economy of a country by speculation. (See Asian Tiger crisis of 1997/8.)

In any case, it wasn't Clinton, it wasn't Bush, it was Johnson and Nixon. Unfortunately, a lot of the folks who screwed it up then are still around to screw it up now. We will need to insist on some common sense from our representatives on both sides of the aisle when this crisis hits in full force, though in truth, we are in the midst of it right now, and have been for a long time.

Remember the old story about the guy who thought he could fly? He leapt off the top of the highest building in his town, and as he soared downward he was heard to say, "So far, so good."
[right][post="54581"][/post][/right][/quote]
Great post! Somehow conversations such as these lose a little impact when they're conducted anonymously over the internet, but...
I see your points and I understand.
I might forward your post to my Dad and see what he thinks about it. After The General retired, he took a job for 5 years as the Dierctor Of Public Works And Transportation for Montgomery County, MD, so he knows quite a bit about infrastructure (and he's an engineer).
Thanks...now that's 3 beers I owe you!
<<I gotta think of a way to enlighten this guy about something he doesn't know much about so I can get my beers back!>>
Oh, did I say that out loud?

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 2 2005, 04:14 PM']Beaker youre an racist ignorant bastard, what the hell does the value of the dollar have to with that bullshit you just posted?
[right][post="54723"][/post][/right][/quote]
Smoov, you're crossing the line here. I didn't take it that way...although I can see how one might, if you look hard enough into it (you can usually see anything you want in anything if you look hard enough).
Beaker made a valid point about part of the problem with wealth distribution in this country being due in part to a lack of education.
And OldSchooler's right...plenty of drug dealers and NBA players are WHITE!
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
Walk it off, man...

[Homer_Rice]

Thanks for the compliment, Bung, I'd be interested in hearing the General's views. Many years ago (about the time that a bridge collapsed in Connecticut and some folks drove off the edge and were killed) I read a study about the failure to reinvest in infrastructure and the numbers really shocked me. It's gotten worse in the time since. It isn't enough to simply do "upkeep", we have to reinvest and employ newer techniques and practices which improve the facilities in question.

I point out the structural shift away from stable currency policies and use the example of infrastructure rebuilding as an example of how we can kill many birds with a few stones because that's an ideal and practical way to:

1) strengthen our economy;
2) provide decent jobs which require an educated and skilled workforce;
3) ensure that US leadership in the world is genuinely good and not a paper tiger; and
4) gives Americans a reason to come together around some big goals, even though there is disagreement on some particulars.

After reading the intervening comments by smoov, Beaker, and bengalrick, I am going to be arrogant and quote myself:

[quote]What we have now is a false disjunction between these two necessities, and tons of childish arguments on both sides--while "Rome" is burning.[/quote]

Sorry, fellow Bengal lovers, and after all, that is why we are here, but you provide an example of what I suggested. Isn't it possible that each of you has a good point to make? Why degenerate into name-calling (and it isn't only smoov who is doing some bashing here) when the situation is as serious as it is.

There is a structural problem here, not a cyclical one.

1) the currency needs more stability, not only for our sake of our economy, but for the sake of the world economy;
2) we do need a better educated populace;
3) we do need good jobs for those educated people;
4) we do need entrepreneurial efforts to explore and exploit the latest advances in technology, so they can be passed into wider societal practice more effectively;
5) we do need strong families, if only because that's where we all learn about love;
6) we do need government to be better, to lead when it ought to be leading and to get out of the way when it needs to get out of the way; and
7) we definitely need to stop riling each other up around ideological differences when there is so much work to be done.

Sometimes we are correct, sometimes we are mistaken. Some people are racists, some people are not. I suspect we all want what is good for our people, our economy, our country and even for the world. So let's start there and leave the stock "liberal vs conservative" weapons where they belong: in the dust heap of poorly employed concepts which do more to aggravate the situation than alleviate it.

Hey, I had a "Rodney King" moment and a "superior snob" moment, simultaneously! I guess populist and elitist ideas can cohabitate.

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

C'mon people let's not play games here, Beaker was obviously talking about black people. Yes white people do sell drugs and play in the NBA, but most white kids don't think that those are there only options, conversely most black kids do, unfortunately. When the average person thinks of a NBA player or a drug dealer, a black man comes to mind, that is a fact. Everytime you watch a movie and it's a basketball player, he's black, samething for drug dealers.

I do think that education or lack of a quality education does play into the quality of life that an individual can achieve, sometimes. But our governments are just as guilty, all over America cities are neglecting the public schools. Here in NYC, were public schools are breeding grounds for prisons and the budget gets cut annually, they are going to spend over 1 billion dollars to build a football stadium for a team that already has one. Even in Cincinnati when PBS was being built, taxpayers wouldn't approve a tax increase to help public schools, but they built a stadium for a team that hadn't won in decade.

Beaker was just mad I blamed bush and said Rumsfeld should be shot, his post had nothing to do with the topic. The value of the dollar is far removed the lack of quality education kids are receiving in public schools.

Education starts in the home, first and foremost, it's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids are properly educated. But America's public school system is failing the youth of America, I see it everyday. If teachers were paid like there are supposed to be, seeing how important of a job they have, and money was spent to upgrade the schools instead of building billion dollar football stadiums then maybe kids won't strive to be drug dealers or NBA players.

Please tell me how reforming welfare will directly effect the value of the dollar, since you have real solutions. Your conservative bullshit is amazing and for you act like you weren't referring to black people when you mentioned playing in NBA or selling drugs is just false. I don't have to assume to know what you were implying it's pretty fucking obvious.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 3 2005, 09:21 AM']C'mon people let's not play games here, Beaker was obviously talking about black people.  Yes white people do sell drugs and play in the NBA, [b]but most white kids don't think that those are there only options, conversely most black kids do,[/b] unfortunately.  When the average person thinks of a NBA player or a drug dealer, a black man comes to mind, that is a fact.  Everytime you watch a movie and it's a basketball player, he's black, samething for drug dealers. 

I do think that education or lack of a quality education does play into the quality of life that an individual can achieve, sometimes.  But our governments are just as guilty, all over America cities are neglecting the public schools.  Here in NYC, were public schools are breeding grounds for prisons and the budget gets cut annually, they are going to spend over 1 billion dollars to build a football stadium for a team that already has one.  Even in Cincinnati when PBS was being built, taxpayers wouldn't approve a tax increase to help public schools, but they built a stadium for a team that hadn't won in decade. 

Beaker was just mad I blamed bush and said Rumsfeld should be shot, his post had nothing to do with the topic.  [b]The value of the dollar is far removed the lack of quality education kids are receiving in public schools.[/b] 

Education starts in the home, first and foremost, it's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids are properly educated.  But America's public school system is failing the youth of America, I see it everyday.  If teachers were paid like there are supposed to be, seeing how important of a job they have, and money was spent to upgrade the schools instead of building billion dollar football stadiums then maybe kids won't strive to be drug dealers or NBA players. 

Please tell me how reforming welfare will directly effect the value of the dollar, since you have real solutions.  Your conservative bullshit is amazing and for you act like you weren't referring to black people when you mentioned playing in NBA or selling drugs is just false.  I don't have to assume to know what you were implying it's pretty fucking obvious.
[right][post="55377"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Isn't it generalizing on your part to assume that most black people feel that drug dealing or pro sports are their only options in life? So most black people see no value in an education?
And I don't think that the value of the dollar is as far removed from the lack of quality of education that kids, white or black or whatever, recieve.
Better educated people=better jobs=more productivity=more stable economy (dollar)?
??

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 3 2005, 11:19 AM']Isn't it generalizing on your part to assume that most black people feel that drug dealing or pro sports are their only options in life?  So most black people see no value in an education?
And I don't think that the value of the dollar is as far removed from the lack of quality of education that kids, white or black or whatever, recieve.
[b]Better educated people=better jobs=more productivity=more stable economy (dollar)?[/b]
??
[right][post="55437"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

If only it was that simple.

I'm not generalizing, unfortunately too many young black males feel that is their only options. Have you ever saw the movie "Boilerroom", in the beginning they quote a lyric from the rapper Notorious B.I.G. were he describes growing up in the inner city and he says "Either you have a wicked jump shot or you slang crack rock". This is the mentality of many young minority males, how that affects the value of the dollar I still waiting on that explanation.

Also, it's doesn't matter how much education you have if there aren't any jobs available to you. Today a college education is comparable to a high school education 25-30 years ago, so being educated doesn't automatically qualify you for the good life. African-Americans value education just as much as any other segment of the population, we value it so much that 150 years ago many risked their lives to be educated. Some black people are so disillusioned that they have given up hope on a better life and they don't believe that education can help them improve their quality of life.

Still back to the point, Beaker is an asshole for making the subliminal racist statement that had nothing to do with the topic. Outsourcing of jobs has more to do with the value of our currency than that bullshit he described. Beaker is just a conservative prick who is living in denial and can't accept the fact that he voted for an i d i o t who's going to make sure he starts WWIII, while ignoring the fact that America is regressing by the day. If bush paid as much attention to fixing the problems in America as he did to invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no WMD's like he claimed then he maybe his term in office wouldn't be a complete waste.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 3 2005, 10:48 AM']If only it was that simple.

I'm not generalizing, unfortunately too many young black males feel that is their only options.  [b]Have you ever saw the movie "Boilerroom", in the beginning they quote a lyric from the rapper Notorious B.I.G. were he describes growing up in the inner city and he says "Either you have a wicked jump shot or you slang crack rock". [/b] This is the mentality of many young minority males, how that affects the value of the dollar I still waiting on that explanation. 

Also, it's doesn't matter how much education you have if there aren't any jobs available to you.  Today a college education is comparable to a high school education 25-30 years ago, so being educated doesn't automatically qualify you for the good life.  African-Americans value education just as much as any other segment of the population, we value it so much that 150 years ago many risked their lives to be educated.  [b]Some black people are so disillusioned that they have given up hope on a better life and they don't believe that education can help them improve their quality of life. [/b]Still back to the point, Beaker is an asshole for making the subliminal racist statement that had nothing to do with the topic.  Outsourcing of jobs has more to do with the value of our currency than that bullshit he described.  Beaker is just a conservative prick who is living in denial and can't accept the fact that he voted for an  i d i o t who's going to make sure he starts WWIII, while ignoring the fact that America is regressing by the day.  If bush paid as much attention to fixing the problems in America as he did to invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no WMD's like he claimed then he maybe his term in office wouldn't be a complete waste.
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I think a lot of these "inner-city blues" are a self-perpetuating cycle of hopelessness, which starts at home with single mothers who either work two jobs to feed kids they can't directly supervise BECAUSE they're working so much, or the mothers are addicts and don't care what their kids do, or any other of a plethora of social ills.
I think a BIG problem in America that isn't necessarily isolated to big cities is lack of a caring Father figure/role model in the household. Too many children are born out of wedlock and too many of these kids have no Dad to look up to. So, they look to TV and their immediate surroundings for comfort and find: violence, drugs, easy sex, money...all instant gratification-oriented.
When you then have a popular culture (rap music comes to mind--I'm going to generalize here) that pounds the worship of materialism to the nth degree into impressionable minds...you get what we have.
You can't possibly believe that if Kerry had been elected that these things would have changed. People just need to build a sense of community and caring about other people. You know the old saying about it taking a village to raise a child...
You can't expect the government to solve your life's problems...
And FWIW, this is NOT only a black problem.
I see this type of parental neglect every day right here in whitebread Smalltown Indiana, in the TRAILER PARK that I live in...8 year old kids running around at 10 at night while their Mom and or Dad (if there is one...there often isn't) are uptown getting wasted at the local bar, etc...
So---I think this does represent my point about education. Anywhere there is low income housing and a lack of education, there is the breeding ground for future criminal behavior and ignorance.
Yeah, a college degree is no guarantee that you'll get rich but it WILL provide you MORE opportunities to land a decent job, as well as teach a young person about the benefits of hard work, a less ego-centric worldview and a little respect for authority.

[Beaker]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 3 2005, 03:21 PM']I do think that education or lack of a quality education does play into the quality of life that an individual can achieve, sometimes.  But our governments are just as guilty, all over America cities are neglecting the public schools.  Here in NYC, were public schools are breeding grounds for prisons and the budget gets cut annually. 

Beaker was just mad I blamed bush and said Rumsfeld should be shot, his post had nothing to do with the topic.  The value of the dollar is far removed the lack of quality education kids are receiving in public schools. 

Education starts in the home, first and foremost, it's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids are properly educated.  But America's public school system is failing the youth of America, I see it everyday.  If teachers were paid like there are supposed to be, seeing how important of a job they have, and money was spent to upgrade the schools instead of building billion dollar football stadiums then maybe kids won't strive to be drug dealers or NBA players. 

Please tell me how reforming welfare will directly effect the value of the dollar, since you have real solutions.  Your conservative bullshit is amazing and for you act like you weren't referring to black people when you mentioned playing in NBA or selling drugs is just false.  I don't have to assume to know what you were implying it's pretty fucking obvious.
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Ok Smoov, I'll try to address each point for you. First, you have no idea who I was referring to. I was referring to poor URBAN kids. NOT blacks specifically. Now if you want to make that leap, go ahead. My mistake was not including all low income groups.

Next, youve called me an asshole in several different posts without me ONCE making any derogatory comments towards you. You also called me ignorant. All because I opposed your viewpoint.

I went off on the education tangent in response to your comment about outsourcing (which I already tried to explain). I REALLY wanted to hear you tell me what failed policies caused the dollar to drop. I think it is simply due to economic cycles. Thats what I said in myy post and left it at that. Most people dont need that sentence to be elaborated further.

Also, throwing money at the public school system DOESNT DO ANYTHING IF THE PARENTS DONT CARE! The schools are not bad due to lack of funding. Kids can learn in a shack on a dirt floor. As you so clearly pointed out about blacks in early America. Public schools arent failing the youth of America...parents are. I see that everyday, I am there on the front line.

You assume I was mad because you blame Bush. I dont care who you blame. But blaming someone else is typical rather than taking responsibility for yourself. The Rumsfeld comment was made in response to calling me ignorant the first time. What is ignorant is advocating shooting someone.

Reforming welfare wont help the value of the dollar. It will help everyone in the country. Welfare pure and simply plays into the "Im owed something/victim mentality of too many poor people. (Which you'll assume I mean blacks Im sure).

I think everyone else saw what I meant Smoov, as judged by the responses you got to your name calling. Anyway, stick with what you know, but dont assume things you dont.