As the Dollar Drops

[BengalsCat]

wow that is the most logical thing i have read on the board all day....

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='Beaker' date='Mar 3 2005, 03:22 PM']Ok Smoov, I'll try to address each point for you. First, you have no idea who I was referring to. I was referring to poor URBAN kids. NOT blacks specifically. Now if you want to make that leap, go ahead. My mistake was not including all low income groups.

Next, youve called me an asshole in several different posts without me ONCE making any derogatory comments towards you. You also called me ignorant. All because I opposed your viewpoint.

I went off on the education tangent in response to your comment about outsourcing (which I already tried to explain). I REALLY wanted to hear you tell me what failed policies caused the dollar to drop. I think it is simply due to economic cycles. Thats what I said in myy post and left it at that. Most people dont need that sentence to be elaborated further.

Also, throwing money at the public school system DOESNT DO ANYTHING IF THE PARENTS DONT CARE! The schools are not bad due to lack of funding. Kids can learn in a shack on a dirt floor. As you so clearly pointed out about blacks in early America. Public schools arent failing the youth of America...parents are. I see that everyday, I am there on the front line.

You assume I was mad because you blame Bush. I dont care who you blame. But blaming someone else is typical rather than taking responsibility for yourself. The Rumsfeld comment was made in response to calling me ignorant the first time. What is ignorant is advocating shooting someone.

Reforming welfare wont help the value of the dollar. It will help everyone in the country. Welfare pure and simply plays into the "Im owed something/victim mentality of too many poor people. (Which you'll assume I mean blacks Im sure).

I think everyone else saw what I meant Smoov, as judged by the responses you got to your name calling. Anyway, stick with what you know, but dont assume things you dont.
[right][post="55639"][/post][/right][/quote]

I called you an ignorant asshole because of how you tried to make the correlation that poor urban kids(as you now refer to them ) have something to do with the value of the dollar being dropped.

You now say poor urban kids or not blacks specifically, but before you described kids who want to be NBA players or drug dealers and we all know who you were talking about no matter how you try to explain yourself. Besides, urban is the pc way of referring to black people, don't try to play me like I don't know that.

To say the lack of funding isn't hurting public schools is wrong, you say your on the front line but from making a statement like that it's hard to tell.

Your also talking about me being part of the problem because I'm not taking responsibility, don't know what the hell your talking about on that one. Take responsibility for what? Anyway

It's funny to hear your views on welfare and your assumptions of what you think I think, I know more white people are on welfare than black, but blacks are most commonly thought of to be the main benefactors of welfare. I don't know you, but I'm going to guess that you've never been on welfare or known anyone personally that has been on welfare. While some do abuse the system there are many who really do need it and wouldn't be able to survive without it. You sound like someone thinks they have all of the answers, but in reality haven't got a clue.

Bushs' inaction to do something about outsourcing is effecting our economy in negative way. Also by not stimulating growth in the economy and creating new jobs, his fiscal policies have failed. The value of the dollar has been in constant decline for the past 2 years, that's not an economic cycle. [url="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDEUR=X&t=2y"]The $ vs. Euro...[/url]

Lastly you don't know me or what I know, I know you think you know what your talking about, but after reading your asinine statements I now feel justified for calling you ignorant. You told me to stick to what I know, I'm telling you to go fuck yourself. :smile:

[Beaker]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 3 2005, 10:09 PM']I called you an ignorant asshole because of how you tried to make the correlation that poor urban kids(as you now refer to them ) have something to do with the value of the dollar being dropped. 

You now say poor urban kids or not blacks specifically, but before you described kids who want to be NBA players or drug dealers and we all know who you were talking about no matter how you try to explain yourself.  Besides, urban is the pc way of referring to black people, don't try to play me like I don't know that.

[b]I dont need to explain myself. YOU need to figure it out. Youre the only one who made that leap, everyone else that read the post got it. Poor city kids is what I think of when I think of low income (due to where I live). There are plenty of poor white kids who live in the city, play on the courts with the black kids, and want to be in the NBA. For you to pretend its all about black kids is simply your attempt at trying to belittle me by playing the race card. [/b]

To say the lack of funding isn't hurting public schools is wrong, you say your on the front line but from making a statement like that it's hard to tell. 

[b]Cincinnati Public Schools avg $8000 per student...the highest of any district in our state. The MAIN problem keeping the kids from their education is truancy and dropouts. That starts with the parents. [/b]

Your also talking about me being part of the problem because I'm not taking responsibility, don't know what the hell your talking about on that one.  Take responsibility for what?  Anyway

[b]Because you blame without offering solutions.[/b]

It's funny to hear your views on welfare and your assumptions of what you think I think, I know more white people are on welfare than black, but blacks are most commonly thought of to be the main benefactors of welfare.  I don't know you, but I'm going to guess that you've never been on welfare or known anyone personally that has been on welfare.  While some do abuse the system there are many who really do need it and wouldn't be able to survive without it.  You sound like someone thinks they have all of the answers, but in reality haven't got a clue.

[b]Some do need it, and should get it...but shouldnt exist on it. Welfare reform will allow them to get back on their feet, and  enable them to become productive members of society. Black or white, the system still needs reform.  [/b]

Bushs' inaction to do something about outsourcing is effecting our economy in negative way.  Also by not stimulating growth in the economy and creating new jobs, his fiscal policies have failed. 

[b]Please tell me how the President could or should stimulate growth. Jobs are created by employers, not in Washington.[/b]

The value of the dollar has been in constant decline for the past 2 years, that's not an economic cycle.  [url="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDEUR=X&t=2y"]The $ vs. Euro...[/url]

[b]In my opinion, a normal economic fluctuation. Our economy was in a growth mode for so long, any downturn seems unnatural at this point.[/b]

Lastly you don't know me or what I know, I know you think you know what your talking about, but after reading your asinine statements I now feel justified for calling you ignorant.  You told me to stick to what I know, I'm telling you to go fuck yourself. :smile:

[b]Yet you assume to know all about me. Hypocritical at best Smoov. And again with resorting to name calling. Youre a perfect candidate for the old saying: Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. [/b][/quote]

[Nati Ice]

[quote]I called you an ignorant asshole because of how you tried to make the correlation that poor urban kids(as you now refer to them ) have something to do with the value of the dollar being dropped.

You now say poor urban kids or not blacks specifically, but before you described kids who want to be NBA players or drug dealers and we all know who you were talking about no matter how you try to explain yourself. Besides, urban is the pc way of referring to black people, don't try to play me like I don't know that.[/quote]

urban whites
urban latinos
urban blacks
urban italians
urban whatever

it doesnt matter, unless he said a specific race group do not assume he is singling anyone out, u are acting like black people are the only people that lived in an urban environment

its best to not make assumptions

[Homer_Rice]

I have been involved in political campaigns in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and Kentucky over the course of my life. Nothing major, just doing basic grunt-work for people I knew and respected. Most of the time I have supported Democratic candidates, on one notable occasion I supported a Republican because he was a friend and I knew of his integrity and worth to the community. I've walked all kinds of neighborhoods: urban and suburban, ethnic and polyglot, rich and poor.

I am generally more informed than your average citizen, not because I am special or anything, but simply because in some ways I am "plugged in" and hear a lot of stuff that is important but not "spectacularly" newsworthy--such is the state of our media nowadays.

That said, I'm going to make my points on this topic and then move on, as it appears that a fruitful discussion in not in the cards.

1) Smoov: You could logically infer your conclusion from Beaker's remarks. But, that does not necessarily mean that Beaker implied what you inferred. He's has cleared that up and one hopes you'll be willing to accept his further explanation at face value. This wouldn't be the first time that confusion about inferences and implications caused a volitile conversation.

2) Smoov: I tend to come down on the same side of the political argument as you do. If anything, I am probably more radical. I think that this is a crucial moment in American history and that the danger of fascism is real and not to be ignored. If you were to infer that conclusion from my remarks about a crucial moment in American economic history, even though I was not explicit in that regard, you would not be too far off base. The economic preconditions for fascism have been building for quite some time and I pointed out a moment in the process which serves as an important inflection in that process.

3) Smoov: Now that we are apparently in the "end-game" of this process, in which the economic precursors of fascism might spill over into a mass-based political movement, I share your concerns. I understand your passion but I disagree with how you attack the problem. Attacking Beaker personally is no substitute for building a persuasive case against his positions. When you call someone an asshole and tell him to go fuck himself, he is not likely to listen to the more reasonable arguments you make for your views. Beaker is not the enemy, in fact, he is part of the solution.

4) Beaker: I disagree with much of what you say, but I do not doubt your firm belief in your views, nor do I doubt your honest intent. Once again, the collapse of the dollar is not a cyclical problem, it is a structural one. I'd be happy to offer my case for this on another occasion. Briefly put here, I will say that I think the notion of an economic or business "cycle" in general tends to suggest some kind of inexorable movement that is beyond human intervention, and that is simply not the case. Economics is all about human intervention and decision-making. Always has been and always will be. The problem is that we often do not correctly foresee the consequences of our policy-choices.

4) Beaker: You are lucky because you are living in a period in which, once again, we are going to be put to the test. Does government create jobs? It did in the 30s and if we are fortunate, it will again in the not too distant future. Is this bad? No, in my opinion, though I suspect you might disagree. That's fine by me because I do not question your desire to do the right thing, as you see it. What will be played out over the next few years are those questions of what is good for the American people. I do not consider my view to be alarmist, I just think I can see what is coming down the pike pretty clearly. I wish I were mistaken, and I suspect I probably am in some details, but with respect to the big picture, I trust my judgement and my judgement tells me that ideological nostrums are not going to be sufficient: we are going to have to think better to solve these problems. I know you are capable of that because I have read your insightful remarks on science.

I hope this is not too overbearing, but I wanted to chime in.

[Beaker]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Mar 4 2005, 02:11 AM']4) Beaker: I disagree with much of what you say, but I do not doubt your firm belief in your views, nor do I doubt your honest intent. Once again, the collapse of the dollar is not a cyclical problem, it is a structural one. I'd be happy to offer my case for this on another occasion. Briefly put here, I will say that I think the notion of an economic or business "cycle" in general tends to suggest some kind of inexorable movement that is beyond human intervention, and that is simply not the case. Economics is all about human intervention and decision-making. Always has been and always will be. The problem is that we often do not correctly foresee the consequences of our policy-choices.

[right][post="55920"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Homer, I readily concede that I am no economic expert. As stated earlier, it is my OPIONION that the devaluing of the dollar is a normal economic fluctuation. I could well be wrong on that. It is just that over my lifetime I have seen countless variation in the dollar's value vs other currencies. Having made frequent trips to Canada in my youth it seemed that the monetary conversion at the border seemed to change every time I went (for example purposes only).

Is that mainly what you meant when you said you disagree with much of what I said? Because my main pet peeve is that so many kids are failing to get an adequate education to make them successful. I see the main problem there as a cultural evolution towards lack of value for an education in the home. You cannot believe the attitude of the majority of parents that I cross paths with. At the risk of generalizing, where I live there seems to be a "me first" attitude among the parents with materialism and sexual gratification coming before the concerns of the kids. That is the subculture that I believe is the becoming biggest threat to our country. We are becoming less and less able to compete on a global scale because of lack of practical education for the times, and the "dumbing down" of standards for the kids who do stick it out to graduation. Am I way off base there? From direct experience, I dont think I am.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Beaker' date='Mar 3 2005, 11:17 PM']Homer, I readily concede that I am no economic expert. As stated earlier, it is my OPIONION that the devaluing of the dollar is a normal economic fluctuation. I could well be wrong on that. It is just that over my lifetime I have seen countless variation in the dollar's value vs other currencies. Having made frequent trips to Canada in my youth it seemed that the monetary conversion at the border seemed to change every time I went (for example purposes only).

Is that mainly what you meant when you said you disagree with much of what I said? Because my main pet peeve is that so many kids are failing to get an adequate education to make them successful. I see the main problem there as a cultural evolution towards lack of value for an education in the home. You cannot believe the attitude of the majority of parents that I cross paths with. [b]At the risk of generalizing, where I live there seems to be a "me first" attitude among the parents with materialism and sexual gratification coming before the concerns of the kids. That is the subculture that I believe is the becoming biggest threat to our country. We are becoming less and less able to compete on a global scale because of lack of practical education for the times, and the "dumbing down" of standards for the kids who do stick it out to graduation.[/b] Am I way off base there? From direct experience, I dont think I am.
[right][post="56053"][/post][/right][/quote]
I think that you're spot on here. The more convieniences we have, the more instant gratification we've become.

The more instant gratification we become, the more personal emphasis on self, and not necessarily welfare of little children who depend on your financial well-being for sheer existence, let alone being a positive guiding force in their lives.
I am learning this on the fly. I drink too much and stay up too late, robbing myself of what could be my last few crucial moments with my son, for instance, because I don't necessarily wake up at the same time as he, and I could die at any time.

Smoov, I respect your point of view, not because I know that you're African-American, but because you have passion behind your views. Maybe sometimes you let that get the better of you but I can't possibly hold your convictions against you. Who could? This is America and we're literally on an anonymous basis here. I don't think that you exercising some restraint sometimes simply for civilty's sake would be a bad move.

Bad parenting leads to bad kids as surely as smoking causes lung cancer, and I'm trying to quit...parenting, I MEAN SMOKING, DAMMIT!!!

Let's have a civil discussion about the topic at hand without throwing verbal bombs...God knows there's enough real ones...

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

Beaker I want to apologize for the verbal attacks, but telling me to stick to what I know is tad bit disrespectful.

I do agree with you that education starts in home, without the parents involvement in the kids education the kids are almost doomed to failure. However education does you know good if there are jobs available, to me that's were this administration is failing(or atleast one area). With outsourcing and the change of America from a industrial to a goods and services based economy, the job market is shrinking at an alarming rate.

The fall of the value of the dollar is something that we should be concerned about, the EU is becoming more influential than the US right before our eyes. If America was a corporation we would be ripe for a corporate takeover.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 4 2005, 01:44 AM']  Bad parenting leads to bad kids as surely as smoking causes lung cancer, and I'm trying to quit...parenting, I MEAN SMOKING, DAMMIT!!!
[right][post="56073"][/post][/right][/quote]



You just got to go cold turkey, get rid of the problem.... you'll save money because you will not have another mouth to feed.


Oh wait you mean cigarettes.....yeah go cold turkey on those too.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Mar 4 2005, 10:50 AM']You just got to go cold turkey, get rid of the problem.... you'll save money because you will not have another mouth to feed.
Oh wait you mean cigarettes.....yeah go cold turkey on those too.
[right][post="56304"][/post][/right][/quote]
...And I've got another one on the way in about 7 months...

<<watches money and hanging out with friends swirl down drain...>>

[Guest bengalrick]

since this thread is starting to lean towards, "is giving more money to the school systems, the solution or the problem?" i found this article:

[url="http://www.freedomworks.org/newsroom/press_template.php?press_id=1015"]freedomworks.org[/url]

[quote][b]Washington State Tax Fact #8: More Spending Doesn't Mean Better Education [/b]

Reform education system before spending even more money.


Seattle, WA -  Both sides of the I-884 tax hike issue agree that quality education is important. However, supporters of the I-884 tax increase will not debate ways to improve the use of existing education funds. In fact, nationally, the Evergreen State already ranks 15th in state spending on K-12 education. [b]Washington spends $9,454 per public school student-- on average that’s $2,000 to $5,000 more than private school per student spending. [/b]

A tax increase should be the last resort. The first place to start: doing more with the funds Washington is currently spending. [b]Less than half of education spending actually goes towards basic instruction, while central administrators earn average salaries of $89,027. [/b] Washington’s schools should practice better fiscal discipline before socking taxpayers with a billion dollar tax hike.

One way to create more accountability in the system is school choice, which gives parents a scholarship to send their children to any public or private school they choose. School choice would inject competition into Washington's education system by forcing schools to compete.

Throwing money at schools won’t make them better-- Washington should try education reforms like school choice before resorting to a huge tax increase.

For more information, please visit [url="http://www.freedomworks.org/washington"]http://www.freedomworks.org/washington[/url][/quote]

how should we spend the extra money?

[Guest bengalrick]

btw, i can't find a breakdown of state test scores, but i have always heard that washington is not among the top... can anyone find evidence of that?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 4 2005, 01:22 PM']...And I've got another one on the way in about 7 months...

<<watches money and hanging out with friends swirl down drain...>>
[right][post="56339"][/post][/right][/quote]


Aw, congrats man.

[|Bunghole|]

Thanks. When she told me "we" were pregnant, my initial response was to blow my savings on...A MINIVAN!!!!
Dodge Caravans sure are pimp-mobiles...
Y'know, honestly I don't mind driving it when the whole family's in it with me, it's when I'm by myself and I pull up at a light next to a car of pretty young women, and I...sink down into the seat...
AND it's fucking purple! A big Barney on wheels...fucking great...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 4 2005, 01:48 PM']Thanks.  When she told me "we" were pregnant, my initial response was to blow my savings on...A MINIVAN!!!!
Dodge Caravans sure are pimp-mobiles...
Y'know, honestly I don't mind driving it when the whole family's in it with me, it's when I'm by myself and I pull up at a light next to a car of pretty young women, and I...sink down into the seat...
AND it's fucking purple!  A big Barney on wheels...fucking great...
[right][post="56363"][/post][/right][/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

[Jamie_B]

Someone say something about jobs?

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/[/url]

[Beaker]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 4 2005, 04:28 PM']Beaker I want to apologize for the verbal attacks, but telling me to stick to what I know is tad bit disrespectful. 

I do agree with you that education starts in home, without the parents involvement in the kids education the kids are almost doomed to failure.  However education does you know good if there are jobs available, to me that's were this administration is failing(or atleast one area).  With outsourcing and the change of America from a industrial to a goods and services based economy, the job market is shrinking at an alarming rate. 

The fall of the value of the dollar is something that we should be concerned about, the EU is becoming more influential than the US right before our eyes.  If America was a corporation we would be ripe for a corporate takeover.
[right][post="56276"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Smoov, when I said stick to what you know I was referring to not making assumptions about me (since you dont know me). I apologize if you took that the wrong way and felt disrespected. Everything is cool with me. Thanks for the olive branch.

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='Beaker' date='Mar 4 2005, 02:47 PM']Smoov, when I said stick to what you know I was referring to not making assumptions about me (since you dont know me). I apologize if you took that the wrong way and felt disrespected. Everything is cool with me. Thanks for the olive branch.
[right][post="56506"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Yeah I realize I over-reacted, it's been stressful here at work the past few weeks. Can you believe these bastards are trying to take away from my internet time and actually make me work, the nerve?

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 4 2005, 02:03 PM']Yeah I realize I over-reacted, it's been stressful here at work the past few weeks.  Can you believe these bastards are trying to take away from my internet time and actually make me work, the nerve?
[right][post="56527"][/post][/right][/quote]
Don't let 'em do it, Smoov!
Who will BengalRick have to talk politics to?

Hell, if you're going to play the race card, do it to your employer! Threaten a discrimination lawsuit...that'll get your internet time back!



Joking!!!!

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 4 2005, 03:19 PM']Don't let 'em do it, Smoov!
Who will BengalRick have to talk politics to? 

Hell, if you're going to play the race card, do it to your employer!  Threaten a discrimination lawsuit...that'll get your internet time back!
Joking!!!!

[right][post="56553"][/post][/right][/quote]

yeah, it wouldn't be no fun to just speak my mind and not debate back and forth w/ smoov all day...



















i take that back, i'd love to only hear myself instead of the other side...

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Mar 4 2005, 02:40 PM']Someone say something about jobs?

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/[/url]
[right][post="56501"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Ah, but what kind of jobs?

[quote]So Much for the New Bush Economy
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The February payroll jobs figures released last Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics show a continuation of America's descent into a third world service economy.

The Bush administration cheered the creation of 229,000 private sector jobs (which still leaves Bush with a net private sector job loss during his reign). However, once we look at the details, the joy vanishes: 174,000 of the jobs, or 76% of the total, are in nontradable services.

Administrative and waste services (largely temporary help and employment services) account for 61,000 or 35% of the new service jobs. The remainder are accounted for by construction (30,000), retail trade (30,000), healthcare and social assistance (27,000), and waitresses and bar tenders (27,000).

The US has apparently lost the ability to create high productivity, high value-added jobs in tradable goods and services. The ladders of upward mobility are being dismantled by offshore production for home markets and outsourcing of knowledge jobs.

The BLS reports that the number of employed US technical workers has fallen by 221,000 in six major computer and engineering job classifications during 2000-2004. The largest drops were suffered by computer programmers, followed by electrical and electronics engineers, computer scientists and systems analysts.

So much for the new economy that economists promised would take the place of the lost manufacturing economy.

America's remaining job market is domestic nontradable services. While India and China develop first world job markets, the US labor market takes on the characteristics of a third world work force. Only jobs that cannot be outsourced are growing.

The Bush economy has seen a loss of 2.8 million manufacturing jobs, a rise in the unemployment rate of 1.2 percentage points, and a stagnation in real weekly earnings.

How bad will things have to get before economists realize that outsourced jobs are not being replaced? Indeed, many American companies are ceasing to have any presence in the US except for a sales force.

Cisco's CEO, John Chambers, declared recently: "What we're trying to do is outline an entire strategy of becoming a Chinese company."

Cisco is establishing a new R&D center in Shanghai. The US corporation manufactures $5 billion of products in China where it employes 10,000 people.

That is just one company, and there are many doing the same thing. The result is abandonment of the American work force by American corporations. Little wonder the Bush administration is the first administration in 70 years to have a net loss of private sector jobs.

If one US company or a few move offshore, their profits improve and consumer prices are lower. However, when work in general moves offshore, American lose the incomes associated with the production of the goods they consume. Domestic production is turned into imports, with the result that America draws down its accumulated wealth in order to pay for the imports on which it is dependent.

The dollar's value and status as reserve currency cannot forever stand the trade and budget deficits that are now part and parcel of America's economic policy.

Unless there are major changes soon, America's economic future is a third world work force with a banana democracy's worthless currency.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.[/quote]

[BengalsCat]

[quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 4 2005, 04:03 PM']Yeah I realize I over-reacted, it's been stressful here at work the past few weeks.  Can you believe these bastards are trying to take away from my internet time and actually make me work, the nerve?
[right][post="56527"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

THAT IS BULLSHIT>>. THe people demand that right to use the internet as they pleases regardless if they are at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

[Guest bengalrick]

homer... for some odd reason, that article sounds a tad bit biased...

link please?

[Guest Bengal_Smoov]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:23 AM']Ah, but what kind of jobs?
[right][post="59870"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Aren't you guys jumping with joy now that Perkins has lifted it's hiring freeze??

[Guest bengalrick]

i'm tired of hearing good news, and the listening to the democratic spin, telling us all how bad they really are...

heres some info, to even out the spin:

[url="http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/10/news/economy/jobless_claims/index.htm"]cnn money[/url]

[quote]The closely watched four-week moving average, which is considered a more reliable indicator of job market trends because it smoothes week-to-week volatility, also rose, climbing to 312,500 from 306,750 in the prior week, breaking five straight weeks of declines and bouncing off a more than four-year low.[/quote]

and to not confuss any of us "less educated" (b/c i was confussed and thought this was a bad thing at first) [url="http://fidweek.econoday.com/reports/US/EN/New_York/jobless_claims/year/2005/weekly/10/"]jobless claims defination...[/url]

heres some more info that might be interesting to you guys:

[url="ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/jec.txt"]click here[/url]

[quote]Statement of
                             
                     Kathleen P. Utgoff
                        Commissioner
                 Bureau of Labor Statistics
                             
                    Friday, March 4, 2005


     Nonfarm payroll employment rose by 262,000 in February,
with job gains occurring across a range of industries.  The
unemployment rate returned to 5.4 percent in February after
dipping to 5.2 percent in January.
    
     [b]Employment in professional and business services
increased by 81,000 in February[/b].  Within this sector,
temporary help services added 30,000 jobs over the month,
following 3 months in which employment was little changed.
[b]Since its most recent low in April 2003, employment in this
industry has grown by 374,000[/b].  Elsewhere among professional
and business services industries in February, [b]employment was
up in architectural and engineering services and in services
to buildings and dwellings.[/b]    

     Several other industries in the service-providing
sector contributed to the overall employment gain in
February.  The health care industry continued to expand,
adding 23,000 jobs.  Food services employment also remained
on its growth trend, increasing by 27,000.  Retail
employment was up by 30,000 over the month.  In the
financial activities sector, employment in credit
intermediation and in real estate continued to trend up.
    
     In February, construction employment rose by 30,000,
following no gain in the prior month.  Job growth in
construction was likely subdued in January due to unusually
severe weather conditions in some parts of the country.
Over the last year, construction employment growth averaged
23,000 per month.
    
     Manufacturing employment was up by 20,000 in February;
much of this increase reflected automotive workers returning
from temporary layoffs.  A few other manufacturing
industries had small job gains in February.  Overall,
manufacturing employment was up slightly over the year;
however, it has shown little net change since mid-2004.  In
February, factory hours were down by two-tenths of an hour,
while overtime edged up by one-tenth of an hour.
    
     Average hourly earnings of private production or
nonsupervisory workers were flat in February, following a 5-
cent increase in January.  Over the year, average hourly
earnings increased by 2.5 percent.
    
     Most labor market measures from the survey of
households were little changed in February.  The
unemployment rate edged up to 5.4 percent over the month,
returning to its December level.  The jobless rate was
either 5.4 or 5.5 percent in each of last 6 months of 2004.
The labor force participation rate held at 65.8 percent in
February and was about the same as a year earlier.
    
     Among those who were not in the labor force, the number
who were marginally attached to the job market, at 1.7
million in February, was little changed over the year.
About half a million of this group cited discouragement
about their job prospects as their reason for discontinuing
their job search.  This also was about the same level as a
year earlier.
    
     [b]In summary, payroll employment rose by 262,000 in
February and by 2.4 million over the past year[/b].  The
unemployment rate was 5.4 percent, essentially the same as
in the last half of 2004.[/quote]

how can two publications have the same numbers, and come up w/ totally different conclusions? b/c every set of numbers can be manipulated to fit your agenda...

the facts are that employment was better ACROSSED THE BOARD, and the most jobs were created in the professional and business services, which increased by 81,000 in February... the last i checked, professional and business jobs are very very good jobs... manufacturing jobs were big about 20 years ago... technology is the wave of the future, NOT manufacturing... that was the wave of the past...