= How Wealth Creates Poverty in the World

[Actium]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='442696' date='Feb 19 2007, 12:35 AM'][b]I am sorry he is not a despot who put down slave rebellions and ruled as a dictator of Rome. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/37.gif[/img][/b][/quote]

He wanted to be a despot...he was just too lame to seize control and got booted out. He was a whiny loser.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Actium' post='442694' date='Feb 19 2007, 01:29 AM']BJ, take this anyway you like: but you come across as the ultimate elitist[/quote]


[b]Well since I do respect your intellect ... I will do my best to try and catch this and correct it as best as possible, as this is not my intention. [/b]

[Go Tory Go!]

Listen, people. The past is past, the future's now. Let's get over it already!

[img]http://www.aspencountry.com/aspen/assets/product_images/product_lib/34000-34999/34511.jpg[/img]

You all have made me so proud, since academic discourse in my field doesn't involve squabbling up a tempest in a teacup (vis the last two pages).

[Go Tory Go!]

Having said that, I must admit I enjoyed this delicious mix of catfighting and macho pseudo-intellectualism, in the way that we all find a trainwreck morbidly entertaining. So, please do continue. Allow me first to recapitulate:

BlackJesus advocates "world socialism" and sends money to Hamas. Rudi32 believes there to be no way around the exploitation of developing countries, as our great nation is doing no wrong by the perfectly fair principles of the capitalist republic, hummmmmm.

Discuss.

[|Bunghole|]

I always miss out on the good macho pseudo-intellectualism. Damn job, making me go to bed early and all.

[Actium]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='442706' date='Feb 19 2007, 01:03 AM'][b]Well since I do respect your intellect ... I will do my best to try and catch this and correct it as best as possible, as this is not my intention. [/b][/quote]

Good deal, I enjoy many of your posts and you have much knowledge and new perspectives to share. I know that other posters on here also have things to share. There's nothing more interesting than a lively debate, and nothing more boring than an echo chamber.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='#22' post='442651' date='Feb 19 2007, 12:00 AM']Says the guy who goes to (if I'm not mistaken), the University of South Florida.[/quote]


Nova South Eastern and its the same school my dad is getting his doctorate at, and if they can sell their house hell soon be a proff at Kettering College's PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT STUDIES PROGRAM (sorry for the caps, cut and paste) in Dayton.

So....

[Guest #22]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='442709' date='Feb 19 2007, 02:31 AM']You all have made me so proud, since academic discourse in my field doesn't involve squabbling up a tempest in a teacup (vis the last two pages).[/quote]
Because most of the people in your field are passive individuals who fear intellectual conflicts.
The humanities reward people for thinking outside of the box and empathizing with other's viewpoints. It should be of little surprise that most (not Ronald Reagan) of this countries' leaders were awarded college degrees in History (and those who predated the modern Education system were all self-taught on History). In fact, some of the greatest American Historians (George Bancroft, Cotton Mather, JFK in that he won a Pulitzer for a book he didn't necessarily write) have had significant roles in the shaping of our national policies.

This country has had one leader who could be considered a Civil Engineer by any stretch (Jefferson, who was more of a renaissance man than a specialist in anything), and many argue that his was one of the most catastrophic Presidencies in our nation's history.

On a more local level, college politics are often ruled by History Departments. Every local school has had at least one College President (James Ramage at NKU, who led the school in a positive direction for once; Ray Hebert at Thomas More College, who made TMC one of the Top 25 Liberal Arts Colleges in the South; Henry Winkler and Walter Langsam, just to name the most recent two at UC).
A Historian currently leads many of the Ivy League Schools, and Harvard just named Drew Gilpin Faust (you guessed it-A Historian) as their first Woman President (for political reasons, but whatever).

The only major University that comes to mind that is run by an Engineer is UK and Lee Todd (an Electrical Engineer), but I'm sure you would dismiss UK as a failure of an institution, anyway.

Continue to perpetuate this myth of self-importance. Somewhere up the line a Historian will be telling you how to live your life. I'll never have to worry about following laws written by Civil Engineers, thank Tacitus (my god).

[Homer_Rice]

What fun! Love the Trotsky putdown, Actium! Back in college, a buddy of mine used to drag me to SWP meetings. I came away thinking that a fraction was the portion of the mind being used by these folks.

BTW, I am an elitist, just in case anyone had any doubts. As a military friend of mine used to say, "The masses are asses."

And 22, way to go. Historiography Rules! (And don't forget Shriver, recent prez of Miami U.)

[|Bunghole|]

#22, if you're slamming my alma mater, NKU, then...we're going to have words....

[Guest #22]

BungHole, no comment. My parents spent time there when they were poor college kids and it was still a fairly reputable place to go (after Steely and before Ramage, can't think of President's name).

They will accept anybody now. In fact, some of the dumbest people I know attend Northern.

moving along...
Thanks for your words, Homer Rice. I've said it a few times before, but you are the smartest person on here. I thought about going to Socialist Party Meetings, but since I technically work for the Government, that wouldn't go well. Most of them that I do know get on my nerves.

GTG, this is a wasted effort because you will never respond, but the only significant figures I can think of in the world today who are Civil Engineers are the President of Iran (Ahmedinajad), Yassar Arafat, and Boris Yeltsin. Not exactly the best things that have ever happened to international politics. My dad always heard in his days at UK that Pontius Pilate was a civil engineer who developed concrete, but the Electrical Engineering program didn't necessarilly produce the finest biblical scholars.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='#22' post='442909' date='Feb 19 2007, 07:07 PM']Because most of the people in your field are passive individuals who fear intellectual conflicts[b][sup]1[/sup][/b].

...

This country has had one leader who could be considered a Civil Engineer by any stretch (Jefferson, who was more of a renaissance man than a specialist in anything), and many argue that his was one of the most catastrophic Presidencies in our nation's history[b][sup]2[/sup][/b].

...

Continue to perpetuate this myth of self-importance. Somewhere up the line a Historian will be telling you how to live your life. I'll never have to worry about following laws written by Civil Engineers, thank Tacitus (my god)[b][sup]3[/sup][/b].[/quote]

Some points:

1. ...And I suppose by making this provacative generalization you are creating an intellectual conflict? The notion that one must be able to clearly communicate and defend a belief is an essential and common theme among academic disciplines; however, it is a fallacy of current trends in education for a student's ability to create conflict by means of hyperbole, generalization (your weapon of choice, above), or other atypical or outrageous statements to amount to a criterion of success when slapped with the cliched moniker of 'outside the box thinking.' The same forensic methodology you might recognize as the heart of 'intellectual conflict' is, naturally, the foundation of engineering and scientific experimentation; and while the image of confrontation might exist in your head as the pinnacle of academia, it is useless in describing fields which trade in proven fact instead of a combination of fact and conjecture, the latter of which has no place in my field.

2. I guess Herb Hoover doesn't count. Besides, reflect on politics - is the government run by historians (or even liberal arts-folk in general), or by businessmen? And if your initial assertion is correct, and yes, I realize that this is ludicrous, but if [i]somehow[/i] you have correctly asserted that knowledge of . Personally, (and I will duly note that this is conjecture), it seems likely that the number of presidents who studied history is due more to the following factors than to their supposedly being the best-qualified for this position:[list]
[*] That presidents are invariably whites of rich upbringing, for whom history was a conveniently easy course of study for rich playboys such as themselves
[*] That a dirth of other useful things to do with a degree in history leads a higher percentage of such graduates to the fields where their degree can be purported as qualifications; in addition to politics, this includes managerial positions at mediocre-to-bad chain restaurants such as Denny's or Cici's Pizza.
[/list]
And these are just two simple, yet plausible ideas off the top of my head!

3. A historian (or perhaps historian-in-training?) already tries to do so. OMG LOLOCAUST!!1!

And whether you like it or not, you do, in fact, follow laws established by civil engineers. Any structure you build must conform to one of several building codes, depending on location. These codes, mostly filled with fluff which is the domain of architects-of-record like how many sprinkler heads are needed, in turn defer to structural codes which are the product of years of research, and are modified, often fundamentally, every five years to include up-to-date experimentation or analytical approaches. All of this for [i]your[/i] safety.

You're welcome.

I must duly note that we all have graduates of history programs to thank for countless hours committed to the grading and evaluation of gemstones.

[Guest #22]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='443549' date='Feb 21 2007, 02:17 AM']1. ...And I suppose by making this provacative generalization you are creating an intellectual conflict? The notion that one must be able to clearly communicate and defend a belief is an essential and common theme among academic disciplines; however, it is a fallacy of current trends in education for a student's ability to create conflict by means of hyperbole, generalization (your weapon of choice, above), or other atypical or outrageous statements to amount to a criterion of success when slapped with the cliched moniker of 'outside the box thinking.' The same forensic methodology you might recognize as the heart of 'intellectual conflict' is, naturally, the foundation of engineering and scientific experimentation; and while the image of confrontation might exist in your head as the pinnacle of academia, it is useless in describing fields which trade in proven fact instead of a combination of fact and conjecture, the latter of which has no place in my field.[/quote]
Except for your constant claims that the Civil Engineering Profession is of the greatest important to the human race. Oh, and this little nugget:
[quote]You all have made me so proud, since academic discourse in my field doesn't involve squabbling up a tempest in a teacup (vis the last two pages).[/quote]All of this obviously represents some kind of argument on your part. Whether it is intellectual or not is questionable.

[quote]2. I guess Herb Hoover doesn't count. Besides, reflect on politics - is the government run by historians (or even liberal arts-folk in general), or by businessmen? And if your initial assertion is correct, and yes, I realize that this is ludicrous, but if [i]somehow[/i] you have correctly asserted that knowledge of . Personally, (and I will duly note that this is conjecture), it seems likely that the number of presidents who studied history is due more to the following factors than to their supposedly being the best-qualified for this position:[list]
[*] That presidents are invariably whites of rich upbringing, for whom history was a conveniently easy course of study for rich playboys such as themselves
[*] That a dirth of other useful things to do with a degree in history leads a higher percentage of such graduates to the fields where their degree can be purported as qualifications; in addition to politics, this includes managerial positions at mediocre-to-bad chain restaurants such as Denny's or Cici's Pizza.
[/list]And these are just two simple, yet plausible ideas off the top of my head![/quote]
I left off Herbert Hoover as a mercy. Ever wonder why all of the Neo-Cons are based in Stanford (you have)? That's where Hoover went. Hoover didn't have the requisite historical background to avoid ideas like trickle-down economics, which is a shame.
NOW, the Government is run by Businessmen. Part of Hoover's legacy, to be sure.
Your "playboy" thesis fails to explain presidents before the modern era, or high-ranking public officials who were considered experts in history.
And while we're on the topic of race, Civil Engineering seems to limited to White (or Asian) Males, interestingly enough.

and sure many history majors don't continue in that field or one of significance to the direction of the world. A lot of math/physic majors in college end up in the same positions, or the even more annoying Indian Call Centers.

[quote]3. A historian (or perhaps historian-in-training?) already tries to do so. OMG LOLOCAUST!!1!

And whether you like it or not, you do, in fact, follow laws established by civil engineers. Any structure you build must conform to one of several building codes, depending on location. These codes, mostly filled with fluff which is the domain of architects-of-record like how many sprinkler heads are needed, in turn defer to structural codes which are the product of years of research, and are modified, often fundamentally, every five years to include up-to-date experimentation or analytical approaches. All of this for [i]your[/i] safety.

You're welcome.

I must duly note that we all have graduates of history programs to thank for countless hours committed to the grading and evaluation of gemstones.[/quote]
Codes passed by politicians. Many of whom were History Majors in College. See above.

And I suppose Mr. Breetz is going on to be a pioneer in your field?


regardless, it's time for me to go to bed. I do have a job to go to, after all.