Guest ONYX Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 [quote]The race of Jesus has been a subject of debate since at least the 19th century. The physical appearance of Jesus of Nazareth, though with no explicit emphasis on race, was also debated by theologians from early on in the history of Christianity. Different societies have depicted Jesus and most other biblical figures as their own ethnicity in their art, for example he is primarily white in the West, and black in Africa. Such representations are not, in the modern day, usually intended to be historically accurate. The current dominant opinion among secular historians and scientists is that he most likely had light-brown skin, resembling modern-day persons of Middle Eastern descent. Others, however, have suggested other possible racial backgrounds, including African ones. For some Christians the question is complicated by the belief that his birth was a unique miracle, an "incarnation in flesh of divine substance." By the Early Middle Ages the positive view of Jesus' looks was bolstered by a number of descriptions of him purporting to date from his lifetime. Nicephorus quotes a description of him as tall and beautiful with fair wavy hair and dark eyebrows that met in the middle. He had an olive-tinted complexion, "the color of wheat." One Publius Lentulus is supposed to have described him as perfectly beautiful in features, with "hazel-coloured" hair that flowed to his shoulders, and a forked beard. His eyes continually "change their color." Epiphanius Monachus provides a similar description, in which Jesus is six feet tall, golden haired, with black eyebrows, light brown eyes and swarthy skin "like David's."[1]Almost all modern authors dismiss these descriptions as medieval fabrications. They were, however, copied in many Western artistic portrayals. While the early descriptions of hair, skin and eye color clearly have implications for defining Jesus' "race," they are not explicit in their desire to ascribe a racial identity to him in the modern sense. By the 19th century, however, theological arguments were increasingly replaced by more secular biological ones, as attempts were made to envisage Jesus in the context of the people and culture of the Middle East. While some writers stressed his Jewishness, the growth of anti-Semitic racial theory led others, such as Emile Burnouf and Houston Stewart Chamberlain, to argue that he was racially an "Aryan." This led to portrayals of Jesus as a blond Nordic individual, a concept that was taken up by the Nazi ideologue Alfred Rosenberg and by Hitler. In more recent times the fact that the Middle East was a meeting point of cultures and races has led to suggestions that Jesus may have been African or Indian. The ancient Near East was a cultural crossroad, and the only land route out of Africa, where that continent physically joins the Eurasian landmass. The Roman province of Judea (known in the Bronze Age as Canaan, to the Romans as Iudaea, and today as Israel/Palestine), where Jesus lived, had many different waves of immigrants pass through at various points in and before recorded history, with the last major group being the Arab conquest in the 7th century. As such, it is not inconceivable that Jesus could have had at least partial Arab, Berber, Roman, Greek, African, Iranian or Indian ancestry. The aggressive policy of territorial expansion and forced conversion to Judaism practiced by John Hyrcanus a century before Jesus' birth may also have affected the ethnic make-up of the local Jewish populations. It is most commonly argued that Jesus was probably of Middle Eastern descent because of the geographic location of the events described in the Gospels, and, among some modern Christian scholars, the genealogy ascribed to him. For this reason, he has been portrayed as a bronze-skinned individual typical of the Levant region. A team of forensic scientists recently attempted to recreate what Jesus may have looked like based on human remains from the area where and time period when Jesus is believed to have existed. However, this image does not reveal any specific details about what Jesus looked like; it is intended only to give a view of the typical person living in Jesus' time and place.[2] More recently the claim that Jesus was black has gained some currency, chiefly among American black religious movements, either as a serious historical hypothesis or as a symbolic statement of black pride...... [b]AFRICAN[/b] The widespread portrayal of a "Black Jesus" is still relatively recent in Christian imagery, though some scattered portrayals of Jesus with this racial identity have existed for several centuries, such as in the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church. In recent times African-American artists have depicted Jesus as black, sometimes to make a link between his victimization and the sufferings of black people as slaves. Examples include Vincent Barzoni's image of Jesus in the tradition of the "Man of Sorrows". In the majority of Western art, narrative and cinema depicting Jesus, he is portrayed with brown hair and brown eyes, having a short beard and white skin. However, some artists, including notably Dürer, have also depicted him as blond and/or blue-eyed. This is also the case in several films, including Jesus of Nazareth (1977) in which he has dark brown hair but pale blue eyes. Nonetheless, because Western or European ethnicities are composed of many subgroups (whether biological or perceived), such as Mediterrean, Slavic, Northern European (Nordic), the issue is more complex than monolithic. [b]EUROPEAN[/b] Artists such as Leonardo da Vinci, Fra Angelico and Michelangelo all depicted Jesus as white. Nonetheless, it must be noted that most figures of the Bible, including the Israelites and Egyptians described in the Hebrew Scriptures (or Old Testament), were also portrayed as identical in appearance to European whites. In this sense the portrayal may be largely unselfconscious, as might also be the case even in periods with more prominent awareness of race, such as the 20th and 21st centuries. Because of the commonness of this depiction, it is often confused with historical fact. It has dispersed so widely that many cultures have at least to some extent assimilated the image of a white Jesus. Western Christians spread images of a European Jesus through their encounters with peoples of Africa, the Americas, Australia and parts of Asia (often through colonization), from the 16th to the 20th century. Many nonwhite regions and ethnicities have depicted Jesus in this way, sometimes routinely, though sometimes with partial adaptations to the local setting, including dress. Moreover, in addition to images, the fact that Christianity was predominantly introduced to them by white individuals makes the racial connection even more complex. Nonetheless, portrayal of Jesus with local features is also common, especially in areas where Christianity has been prominent for a longer period of history. Additionally, in some cultures nonwhite depictions of Jesus are actually criticized or dismissed outright, with a few considering it blasphemous to portray of Jesus as being of another ethnicity. Ever since the Nazi claim that Jesus was Nordic, Christian white supremacists have commonly equated Christian identity with white racial separatism, sometimes using exegesis of Biblical passages to argue their position. MIDDLE EASTERN Many images portraying Jesus and Mary traditionally used by the Syriac church display bronzed individuals with large brown eyes, characteristic of Middle Eastern peoples. In 19th century Europe a number of artists sought to produce realistic images of Jesus based on the assumption that he was of Middle Eastern appearance. The most assiduous of these was William Holman Hunt, who traveled several times to the Holy Land in order to portray Jesus using local people as models for his works The Finding of the Saviour in the Temple and The Shadow of Death, though he retained many conventions derived from medieval descriptions. Other painters such as James Tissot and Vassili Vereshchagin used what they believed to be more specifically Judaic features, causing some controversy. By the late 19th century several artists sought such ethnographic accuracy. The African American painter Henry Ossawa Tanner painted many episodes from the life of Jesus based on his studies of the population of Palestine. More recent artistic and cinematic portrayals have also made an effort to characterize Jesus as Semitic.[/quote] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus[/url] [color="#FF0000"][b]In my personal opinion, I find it difficult to believe that Jesus looked like Brad Pitt so I am sure he was not white. I also believe that if modern science could prove that Jesus was black, that millions of white Christians in Europe and North America would flock to Atheitism in record numbers, so maybe scientists should leave it alone. More than likely I think that Jesus' race was Middle Eastern, resembeling those who live in that region. (excluding the European Jews who reside in Isreal) [/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 I agree that he was middle eastern looking. Which would be a tough pill to swallow for all those back woods slackjaws who want to blame the current state of affairs on 'dem a-rabs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodey319 Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 he was probably the color of whatever people in LA are. A strange combo of asian, white, mexican and black. Weirdest place ive ever been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 I'm guessing He came from the Planet Melmac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 I'm guessing that Jesus' race is irrelevant, or doesn't exist. Is God a race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='442862' date='Feb 19 2007, 03:38 PM']I'm guessing that Jesus' race is irrelevant, or doesn't exist. Is God a race?[/quote] Something that always interested me is the idea that God has a gender (I'm referring to the Father here, not Jesus, who was a man according to scripture). The purpose of gender is to copulate in order to reproduce. God would not be gendered unless there were another deity of the opposite sex with whom to reproduce. If that were the case, it would not be a God-like being. I think it's just a way for people to contemplate the divine--we need to anthropomorphize the Supreme Being in order to wrap our heads around the concept. So, in my view, both the traditional scripture of God as the Father, and the Dishwalla song about "Tell me all your thoughts on God, cause I'm on my way to see [i]Her[/i]" are just ways of trying to bring the idea to our plane of existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [quote name='Actium' post='442867' date='Feb 19 2007, 04:55 PM']Something that always interested me is the idea that God has a gender (I'm referring to the Father here, not Jesus, who was a man according to scripture). The purpose of gender is to copulate in order to reproduce. God would not be gendered unless there were another deity of the opposite sex with whom to reproduce. If that were the case, it would not be a God-like being. [b]I think it's just a way for people to contemplate the divine--we need to anthropomorphize the Supreme Being in order to wrap our heads around the concept. [/b] So, in my view, both the traditional scripture of God as the Father, and the Dishwalla song about "Tell me all your thoughts on God, cause I'm on my way to see [i]Her[/i]" are just ways of trying to bring the idea to our plane of existence.[/quote] I like to wrap my brain around such metaphysical and cosmic concepts as well. I would like to write a book about God as a cosmic traveller that visits many planets bearing life in many different galaxies across the Universe, and upon each planet he bequeaths a Jesus-figure that looks and speaks just like the inhabitants of whatever planet they were on (ie, Jesus the octopus-shaped alien, Jesus the quadropod, Jesus the Human) and yet the message of Christ was always the same. God as the Unifying Force of Life, if you will, and each planet would have a set of scriptures (their Bibles) that speak of a mighty and loving God that begot his only Son to save them from themselves...and the idea of the Second Coming would be addressed in a manner such that God would drop by, instill awareness in the inhabitants of a given world, bequeath the Son, and promise to come back and check up on them later as He moved on to other planets to do the same. Invariably, upon His return, He would always find that life had gone awry and steeped itself in sins of some kind or another and had fallen away from the vision and words of God. I need to write that book, because I honestly believe that parts of this idea are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [b]I believe that Jesus most likely either looked similar to Osama Bin Laden ... or Bob Marley (I believe he was dread locked with a very long locked beard as well). If you are looking for an ethnicity I would say present day Ethiopian - which is where I believe the Jews of Jesus' time now mostly reside - along with the arc etc. He surely did not look like the blonde blue eyed version of european myth ... [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='442930' date='Feb 19 2007, 08:26 PM'][b]I believe that Jesus most likely either looked similar to Osama Bin Laden ... or Bob Marley (I believe he was dread locked with a very long locked beard as well). If you are looking for an ethnicity I would say present day Ethiopian - which is where I believe the Jews of Jesus' time now mostly reside - along with the arc etc. He surely did not look like the blonde blue eyed version of european myth ... [/b][/quote] There really aren't any biblical accounts that describe his appearance, are there? And I agree....you'd have to be insane to believe that Christ would have looked much different from the inhabitants of the land from where He was from. I mean, if He really was a blue-eyed, blonde-haired dude walking around in the Middle East 2000+ years ago, performing the miracles He did, saying the things He said, surely somewhere in the Gospels they would have mentioned that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoBengal Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I believe Jesus looked like former Hollywood Squares announcer Shadoe Stevens. [img]http://www.nndb.com/people/959/000044827/shadoe.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [center][img]http://www.beloit.edu/~classics/main/courses/fyi2000/museum/unusual_jesus/Crucifixion_Ethiopia(c1450).jpg[/img] [img]http://www.arcworld.org/databases/Jesus.jpg[/img] [img]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/AGF/9558~Black-Jesus-and-Scenes-of-Life-Posters.jpg[/img] [img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/bengals/KKK.jpg[/img] [size=7][i]"God Save Us" [/i][/size][/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='442920' date='Feb 19 2007, 07:07 PM']I like to wrap my brain around such metaphysical and cosmic concepts as well. I would like to write a book about God as a cosmic traveller that visits many planets bearing life in many different galaxies across the Universe, and upon each planet he bequeaths a Jesus-figure that looks and speaks just like the inhabitants of whatever planet they were on (ie, Jesus the octopus-shaped alien, Jesus the quadropod, Jesus the Human) and yet the message of Christ was always the same. God as the Unifying Force of Life, if you will, and each planet would have a set of scriptures (their Bibles) that speak of a mighty and loving God that begot his only Son to save them from themselves...and the idea of the Second Coming would be addressed in a manner such that God would drop by, instill awareness in the inhabitants of a given world, bequeath the Son, and promise to come back and check up on them later as He moved on to other planets to do the same. Invariably, upon His return, He would always find that life had gone awry and steeped itself in sins of some kind or another and had fallen away from the vision and words of God. I need to write that book, because I honestly believe that parts of this idea are true.[/quote] That sounds like a book I would read. You could be the next L. Ron Hubbard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Race? 4.1 40 on turf; 4.3 on water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoBengal Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [quote name='Homer_Rice' post='443033' date='Feb 20 2007, 06:17 AM']Race? 4.1 40 on turf; 4.3 on water.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [quote name='Homer_Rice' post='443033' date='Feb 20 2007, 07:17 AM']Race? 4.1 40 on turf[/quote] [color="#FF0000"][b]Well, this must prove that Jesus was indeed black.[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 It's a sign. [img]http://tammybruce.com/obamahalo.jpg[/img] see the halo [img]http://tammybruce.com/Obamaprays.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [color="#FF0000"][b]Even though I dont believe Jesus was white, I am 100% certain that the Anti-Christ will be.[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Enon Bengal Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 He would have to Mediterranean in appearance wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Remember, Jesus's genealogy ran through Mary's line and not Joseph's. Both of there lines can be traced back to King David; they split with David's sons Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side). [quote]I'm guessing that Jesus' race is irrelevant, or doesn't exist. Is God a race?[/quote] Sez it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 [quote name='sneaky' post='443093' date='Feb 20 2007, 11:42 AM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Even though I dont believe Jesus was white, I am 100% certain that the Anti-Christ will be.[/b][/color] [/quote] [img]http://www.dailynexus.com/system/assets/514/tb_8120_705b5ec17d03ed4e3919694cbc8d4528.jpg[/img] me dink dorge bush be anti-crist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LoyalFanInGA Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 does it really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 [quote name='LoyalFanInGA' post='443536' date='Feb 21 2007, 01:19 AM']does it really matter?[/quote] [b]If it doesn't matter ... then let's all start displaying him as black ... I'll bring the plan to Florida ... I'll let you deliver the memo to Alabama [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBZ Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='442920' date='Feb 19 2007, 08:07 PM']I like to wrap my brain around such metaphysical and cosmic concepts as well. I would like to write a book about God as a cosmic traveller that visits many planets bearing life in many different galaxies across the Universe, and upon each planet he bequeaths a Jesus-figure that looks and speaks just like the inhabitants of whatever planet they were on (ie, Jesus the octopus-shaped alien, Jesus the quadropod, Jesus the Human) and yet the message of Christ was always the same. God as the Unifying Force of Life, if you will, and each planet would have a set of scriptures (their Bibles) that speak of a mighty and loving God that begot his only Son to save them from themselves...and the idea of the Second Coming would be addressed in a manner such that God would drop by, instill awareness in the inhabitants of a given world, bequeath the Son, and promise to come back and check up on them later as He moved on to other planets to do the same. Invariably, upon His return, He would always find that life had gone awry and steeped itself in sins of some kind or another and had fallen away from the vision and words of God. I need to write that book, because I honestly believe that parts of this idea are true.[/quote] It's probably already been done...But it is still a good idea! BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LoyalFanInGA Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 [quote name='BlackJesus' post='443540' date='Feb 21 2007, 01:27 AM'][b]If it doesn't matter ... then let's all start displaying him as black ... I'll bring the plan to Florida ... I'll let you deliver the memo to Alabama [/b][/quote] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question[/url] [quote]A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question posed for rhetorical effect rather than for the purpose of getting an answer. ("How many times do I have to tell you to stop walking into the house with mud on your shoes?"). A rhetorical question seeks to encourage reflection within the listener as to what the answer to the question (at least, the answer implied by the questioner) must be. When a speaker declaims, "How much longer must our people endure this injustice?" or "Will our company grow or shrink?", no formal answer is expected. Rather, it is a device used by the speaker to assert or deny something.[/quote] If you believe in Jesus, does the color of his skin matter? Or the color of any man's skin? <<[i]hint: if it looks rhetorical, sounds rhetorical, smells rhetorical, even tastes rhetorical...it's rhetorical...and thus doesn't require answer[/i]>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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