NateDawg Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 reportedly going to be named MVP...or as steven a. smith called it...best player after shaq award Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050131/capt.sge.gey26.310105003507.photo00.photo.default-277x384.jpg[/img] [b]VS.[/b] [img]http://www.donyell.net/images/shaq.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 [color="red"][b][u]The Fact that Nash has won MVP is dumb founding to me for the following reasons:[/u][/b] - Nash isn't even the best player on his team (Amare is) - Nash avged under 16 pts a Game - Nash plays absolutley no defense (only useful on 1 side of the court) - Only 2 PG's have ever won PG - Big O and Magic Johnson he is clearly not at their level - He isn't even the best rated PG in the league - The Mavs lost him and still were Good , the Lakers lost Shaq and fell apart (Value?) - Value to me means who would someone take if given the choice of the two ? Every team in the league would take Shaq - Other PG's always have similar stats to Nash but not his skin color - All 10 players on the Heat have had the best FG % of their careers with Shaq in the lineup - Shaq affects everything in the Game Defensivley and Offensivley[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 [b]Do I think Race played a part absolutley.... Nash is the small, slow, white guy in a mostly tall black mans game. In an era of me first players he passes and the voters like that and his attitude. Do I htink Voters were necessarily racist, No... most of it was probably in the subconscious but I think it definetly played a Part. Shaq is the most dominating Player in the NBA and is the MVP every year by definition. He is the highest paid, most sought after, and he causes coaches the most problems/headaches. If you put Shaq on any team they go the playoffs. If you place Nash on other teams without his great lineup in Phoenix he is an afterthought.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza10304 Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 6 2005, 07:59 PM'][color="red"][b][u]The Fact that Nash has won MVP is dumb founding to me for the following reasons:[/u][/b] - The Mavs lost him and still were Good , the Lakers lost Shaq and fell apart (Value?) [/color] [right][post="89401"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Nash also left as a free agent, the Lakers got ODOM, BUTLER, AND BRIAN GRANT FOR SHAQ!!!!!!!!!! This is ridiculous, but hey, I don't care as long as we get the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 shaq is mvp....look at how good he made miami and how bad the lakers got after he left...they werent even a playoff team...meanwhile after nash left dallas they didnt really suffer...it seems crazy that shaq isnt mvp...he could be mvp every year and if he retires with 1 mvp it will be sad because hes one of the most dominant players of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Nash probably wasn't the best player but he was the Most Valuable. The suns would have been lucky to make the playoffs if it wasn't for Nash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Remember though Most Valuable Player is supposed to represent the Most valuable in the NBA.... Not the most valuable to your team. If there was a fantasy draft where all teams started from scratch... Nash wouldn't even be in the first round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 look at what they did for their new teams....Nash took a phoenix team who didnt make the playoffs last year....made everybody else better.... and made them one of the best teams in the league....shaq joined a Miami team who was in the playoffs last year i believe as the 4 or 5 seed...made everybody around him better and made miami one of the best teams in the league.... now look at the teams they left....Dallas didnt reall suffer that much from losing nash....dallas is still in the top 4 teams in the West which is about where they were last year with nash...now look at the lakers...they got Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant for Shaq but still failed to make the playoffs i think shaq and nash are even if pretty much every arguement except this one and thats why I think shaq should be MVP....but i also think he should be MVP every year but then people would just constantly cry about it Stats: Shaq- 73 GP 22.9 pts 10.4 reb 2.7 ast 2.34 blk .601 FG% .461 FT% Nash- 75 GP 15.5 pts 3.3 reb 11.5 ast 0.99 stl .502 FG% .887 FT% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Sorry BJ, but you have a life-long Suns fan in me. Nash is the MVP of this league hands down. The Suns were in utter disaray last season. No one sharing, all shooting. Nash comes in and they go from 27 wins to the best team in the league, while playing in the West to. Shaq is dominate, don't get me wrong. But he hasn't been as effective as in year's past and Miami was almost as good last year without him. Nash improves everyone around him and that is what the MVP does. Look at the Suns record without Nash this season. It was horrible. He deserves the MVP and I'm glad he got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Claptonrocks Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Very few players make everyone around them better...Shaq and Nash are two of those players. Duncan being the other one. Kobe isnt. Garnet isnt. McGrady isnt. This are individuals that put up great numbers but their team suffers without the player to make the team better. Nash went to a team that had the same players last season and transformed them from 29 wins to 62 wins thus becoming the only MVP to raise his team's totals by more than 30 wins.. Marbury gets assists but Nash gets his assists by getting the ball exactly where his teammate wants it.. He did it with Dirk in Dallas.. Dirk said as much... Anyone can feed it.. Feeding it where a player is most effective takes a special playeer.. Nash hit over 50 per cent of his shots... How many guards in the NBA do that? He's allmost automatic at the free throw line as well.... You dont have to put up big numbers to be a great player... Its how you make your team perform and Nash made his team perform great this year.. he made Stoudemire a much better player....amare said as much.. So Shaq didnt get it this year.. Maybe he should but dont rag on Nash because he plays a black man's game with great consistancy and plays the ultimate TEAM ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 [quote name='Claptonrocks' date='May 8 2005, 06:56 AM']Very few players make everyone around them better...Shaq and Nash are two of those players. Duncan being the other one. Kobe isnt. Garnet isnt. McGrady isnt. This are individuals that put up great numbers but their team suffers without the player to make the team better. Nash went to a team that had the same players last season and transformed them from 29 wins to 62 wins thus becoming the only MVP to raise his team's totals by more than 30 wins.. Marbury gets assists but Nash gets his assists by getting the ball exactly where his teammate wants it.. He did it with Dirk in Dallas.. Dirk said as much... Anyone can feed it.. Feeding it where a player is most effective takes a special playeer.. Nash hit over 50 per cent of his shots... How many guards in the NBA do that? He's allmost automatic at the free throw line as well.... You dont have to put up big numbers to be a great player... Its how you make your team perform and Nash made his team perform great this year.. he made Stoudemire a much better player....amare said as much.. So Shaq didnt get it this year.. Maybe he should but dont rag on Nash because he plays a black man's game with great consistancy and plays the ultimate TEAM ball. [right][post="89870"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Garnett made everyone better last year. This year, Spreewell and Cassel all complained because they were too old and thought they needed more money. This made them bad this year. If they didnt complain, T'wolves would win the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 34inXXIII Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 7 2005, 05:55 PM'][size=7]Remember though Most Valuable Player is supposed to represent the Most valuable in the NBA.... Not the most valuable to your team.[/quote] Where exactly did you get this information from? If the award goes to who is most valuable in the league then personal stats wouldn't matter at all. Nor would wins. All that would matter is whose team had the greatest road attendance and who sold the most jerseys. Of course it's about who is most valuable to their team, and stats aren't even the sole measurement of that (see 1995 NL MVP Barry Larkin). I don't follow the NBA much at all but I do know the Suns improved at least as much by adding Nash as the Heat did with Shaq, and in a far tougher conference. Maybe Shaq deserved the MVP nonetheless, but to imply it's about race is not just preposterous, but sad. The previous 18 NBA MVPs were black. I suppose 18 was the threshold for racism in NBA MVP voting and the voters could not allow it to continue. Besides, I would dare say there are more black media members voting on this award than there was even a decade ago. Maybe the poll should be to vote upon whose actions are more motivated by race...the NBA MVP voters or those of you who can't seem to overcome the fact that Steve Nash is white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 this whole arguement is stupid, seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 shaq had his least statistcal year ever. Nash was MVP... He sparked a turn around in the suns orgination.. and this is comming from a heat fan too.. Shaq is a close second but i think nash won fair and square Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Race related? Sure. A black man just can't catch a break in the NBA? You're kidding, right? How many white Americans are there in the league. That kid from Kansas and who else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 ummm white people play in the NBA?????? didnt even know that...... but seriousely they are the minority i dont think there is any reason to turn this into a black and white argument. people r just pissed shaq didnt win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza10304 Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' date='May 8 2005, 12:51 AM']Sorry BJ, but you have a life-long Suns fan in me. Nash is the MVP of this league hands down. The Suns were in utter disaray last season. No one sharing, all shooting. Nash comes in and they go from 27 wins to the best team in the league, while playing in the West to. Shaq is dominate, don't get me wrong. But he hasn't been as effective as in year's past and Miami was almost as good last year without him. Nash improves everyone around him and that is what the MVP does. Look at the Suns record without Nash this season. It was horrible. He deserves the MVP and I'm glad he got it. [right][post="89827"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] The Heat were 4th seed in the East (at 2 games over .500 42-40) and this year they get home-court throughout the playoffs in the East and the 2nd best record in franchise history (59-23). All this while giving up Odom, Butler, and Grant. Nash helped them out tremendously but he is not the most dominant player in the league, much less his team (Stoudamire is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 no Nash is def not more domminant then shaq.. but He was THE MOST VALUEBLE PLAYER to his team this year. With out nash the suns wouldnt be in the playoffs...without shaq miami still would be there but not going as deep or with such ease. Nash helped out his team more then shaq did........................... Nash= MVP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 [b]Do you all actually believe that there isn't one single voter who subconsciously or consciously gave more consideration to Nash because he was white? Not one? Is Nash a quality player sure.... Is he the most valuable? not by a long shot. Would the Suns trade Nash for Shaq - Yes. Would the Heat trade Shaq for Nash - No. The Suns improvment is based upon uentin Richardson and Amare not being hurt plus Nash. Not solely because of him. Nash plays no defense, isn't a scoring threat, doesn't rebound, and most of his assists consist of passing into Amare while Amare turns and shoots. Hell i could do that. Shaq changes every facet of the game. Defenders can't go inside, he alwats draws a double team leaving someone open, (Damon Jones is now able to light it up), Shaw crashes the boards and gives you 2nd shot oppurtunitys, blocks shots, and shots over 60% from the field, far better than Nashs 50 %. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted May 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 if you wanna say that just the fact that nash took phoenix from not making the playoffs to the #1 team then maybe we can get Ben Gordon a couple of votes too...i think every body seems to forget how the lakers have fallen apart since shaq left...did the same happen to dallas? no...and if this is shaqs worst year thats still pretyy damn good....but a lot of what he brings doesnt show up in his stats...it doesnt show double teams he draws that gives guys like damon jones and eddie jones open shots and increases their field goal %....just his presence on the court makes everybody better....you know there are a lot of guys who dont really wanna take the ball to the hoop with shaq in there....hes simply the most dominant player in the league and he is the MVP....he should be MVP every year but we all know that isnt going to happen....nash had a great season...phoenix wouldnt be where they are today without him but i think guys like amare, shawn marion, and quentin richardson could hurt the tema just as much if they were gone...mean while if you take dwayne wade away...it will hurt but not near as much as taking shaq....well im done argueing about this...i think we will really see who the MVP is if these two teams meet in the finals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BadassBengal Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Shaq deserved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 NO WAY... yall r crazy Shaq's stats were down for him....... Also if his dominate as yall say should win the award why hasnt he won more then 1 if he has been dominate for so long..... ur logic is soft.... Nash Was the MOST VALUBLE. Shaq= MOst DOMINATE.......... Nash took a crappy franchise made and is taking them to the finals.... Shaq took a playoff team and made it better which one is harder? and BJ i respect your opion normaly. but man get off the race card. Race had nothing to do with this. Personaly i just think its because we have become to used to shaq dominating the league... U have to impress people to win the award. shaq was just average.. by shaq standards if that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted May 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='BengalsCat' date='May 9 2005, 06:11 PM']NO WAY... yall r crazy Shaq's stats were down for him....... [b]Also if his dominate as yall say should win the award why hasnt he won more then 1 if he has been dominate for so long[/b]..... ur logic is soft.... Nash Was the MOST VALUBLE. Shaq= MOst DOMINATE.......... Nash took a crappy franchise made and is taking them to the finals.... Shaq took a playoff team and made it better which one is harder? and BJ i respect your opion normaly. but man get off the race card. Race had nothing to do with this. Personaly i just think its because we have become to used to shaq dominating the league... U have to impress people to win the award. shaq was just average.. by shaq standards if that makes sense [right][post="90319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] you cant honestly say that shaq hasnt really been dominant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='Bengal_Freak' date='May 9 2005, 07:15 PM']you cant honestly say that shaq hasnt really been dominant [right][post="90323"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] No Shaq is the most dominate force in the NBA... i just want to get across shaq has been dominate will be dominate and is the essence of dominance... doesnt guarentee him an MVP award.......... I see it as nash was more valuable to the suns then shaq was to miami...... Miami was in playoffs last year... Suns at the begging of the year would have been lucky to make it to the playoffs.. All steve nash did was lead his team to the best record in the league by making everyone better on his team.. Everyone around him stats went up shooting % went up.... and then suddenly in the games nash didnt play the whole team fell apart and couldnt even look like a basketball team... When shaq went out everyone else was still functioning... Shaq is dominate... nash was more valuable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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