Steve Nash Wins NBA MVP .....

[NateDawg]

here ill just let somebody else tell you for me

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/050509"]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=bayless/050509[/url]

[Guest 34inXXIII]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 9 2005, 04:04 PM'][b]Do you all actually believe that there isn't one single voter who subconsciously or consciously gave more consideration to Nash because he was white?  Not one?

Is Nash a quality player sure.... Is he the most valuable?  not by a long shot.  Would the Suns trade Nash for Shaq - Yes.  Would the Heat trade Shaq for Nash - No.  The Suns improvment is based upon uentin Richardson and Amare not being hurt plus Nash. Not solely because of him.  Nash plays no defense, isn't a scoring threat, doesn't rebound, and most of his assists consist of passing into Amare while Amare turns and shoots.  Hell i could do that.

Shaq changes every facet of the game.  Defenders can't go inside, he alwats draws a double team leaving someone open, (Damon Jones is now able to light it up), Shaw crashes the boards and gives you 2nd shot oppurtunitys, blocks shots, and shots over 60% from the field, far better than Nashs 50 %.  [/b]
[right][post="90265"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

It's funny how people will argue their own perspective of what the MVP award represents just to fit their candidate (most valuable to the league not the team, most dominant, would be first player picked if all players were drafted, etc.) Regardless, if you want to argue with stats, then I'm all in favor of it. You make a striong case for Shaq. Similarly, a strong case can be made for Nash. For example, the Suns were 50-15 with him in the lineup and 2-5 without. - a significantly lower scoring team without, in fact, according to the stats I heard today.

Let me go back to the unfortunate point of this whole thread, though...

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 9 2005, 04:04 PM'][b]Do you all actually believe that there isn't one single voter who subconsciously or consciously gave more consideration to Nash because he was white?  Not one?[/quote]

Riddle me this...do you actually believe that there isn't one single voter who subconsciously or consciously gave more consideration to Shaq - or McGrady, Garnett, Kobe, et al. over the past few seasons - because he they are black? Not one?

Could there be one? Sure...but that pendulum swings both ways.

[jza10304]

[quote name='BengalsCat' date='May 9 2005, 07:11 PM']NO WAY... yall r crazy

Shaq's stats were down for him....... Also if his dominate as yall say should win the award why hasnt he won more then 1 if he has been dominate for so long..... ur logic is soft....
[right][post="90319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
The same reason the greatest player on the planet only won 5. Because it would get pretty boring watching Jordan win it every year.

[Hooky]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 9 2005, 06:04 PM'][b]Do you all actually believe that there isn't one single voter who subconsciously or consciously gave more consideration to Nash because he was white?  Not one?[/quote]

Perhaps, but how many voted for Shaq because Nash is white?

[Jason]

How anyone could see race as an issue in this is unbelieveable. How many black NBA MVPs have there been? Probably more than there have been white. Heck Wilt won several when race was a bigger national issue than it is now. Not to mention Bill Russel, Oscar Robinson, and Kareem.

Whether the MVP should have been Nash or Shaq is a valid arguement. But to think race played a part is just ludicrous!

[Hooky]

I'm with you, Jason. It's amazing. This type of thing is never going to end.

[BengalsCat]

Still crazy SHAQ"S NUMBERS WHERE DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!! from previouse years year he did not win the MVP... why this year when his preformance why still domianting was not as dominating as it was in years past. If shaq should have gotten the MVP he should have gotten about 3-5 years back year after year.....

[sean]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 6 2005, 06:59 PM'][color="red"][b][u]The Fact that Nash has won MVP is dumb founding to me for the following reasons:[/u][/b]

- Nash isn't even the best player on his team (Amare is)

- Nash avged under 16 pts a Game

- Nash plays absolutley no defense (only useful on 1 side of the court)

- Only 2 PG's have ever won PG - Big O and Magic Johnson he is clearly not at their level

- He isn't even the best rated PG in the league

- The Mavs lost him and still were Good , the Lakers lost Shaq and fell apart (Value?)

- Value to me means who would someone take if given the choice of the two ?  Every team in the league would take Shaq

- Other PG's always have similar stats to Nash but not his skin color

- All 10 players on the Heat have had the best FG % of their careers with Shaq in the lineup

- Shaq affects everything in the Game Defensivley and Offensivley[/color]
[right][post="89401"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I thought the award was most valuable player not best player. Without Nash the Suns sucked. With Nash they had the best record. When Nash was hurt they had trouble winning games.

[sean]

[quote name='Bengal_Freak' date='May 9 2005, 07:33 PM']here ill just let somebody else tell you for me

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/050509"]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=bayless/050509[/url]
[right][post="90348"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Please don't reference Skip Bayless. He is a complete 1diot.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="purple"][b][u]Here is the Problem with the MVP award[/color][/u][/b]

[b]- The NBA gives a Coach of the Year award - to the Best Coach that year
- They give an executive of the year award = to the best executive that year
- They give a 6th man award fot the best player off the bench
- They give a rookie of the year to the best rookie player

then instead of just having a Best Player award.... they get all ambiguous and call it "Most Valuable"......

then don't define what entails such a title....

Most people find it to mean "Best player".... thus they wonder why Shaq and Jordan aren't the winners every year.... Other says it is for most valuable to their team, most valuable to the league, who makes others better, the best player overall, the most dominant, etc etc etc etc

Call the Damn thing Best Player in the NBA this year Award and there would be no problem with the outcome.... and Nash would be nowhere in the picture.... Hell he is only the 3rd best player on his own team. [/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b][color="blue"]Also the Suns coach got Coach of the Year.... so which is it, if their coach had the most valuable player then he obviously didn't have to be a good coach, or was Nash the MVP because he had the "Coach of the year"..... That award was also a joke.... Karl from Denver was obviously the coach of the year [/color][/b]

[Nati Ice]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img]

everyone is acting like this is the first time in the history of the nba where the best player may not have received the mvp award. but the fact is that is the most valuable player award and not the best damn player award and until the name changes the selection was good enough not to provoke any questioning behind the motives of the voters, especially when everyone feels the need to throw the race card out there without any shred of evidence. this type of debate amazes me more and more each day. do u all not think that maybe, just maybe, the race card that everyone seems to be playing in this debate is in fact a two way street? its a non-issue, this is ludicrous and redundant as hell.

[quote]Nash was the NBA's Catalyst of the Year.[/quote]
[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/050509"]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=bayless/050509[/url]

'nuff said

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/27.gif[/img]

[Guest 34inXXIII]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 10 2005, 09:48 PM']Call the Damn thing Best Player in the NBA this year Award and there would be no problem with the outcome.[/quote]

First of all, I'd say most people don't believe there IS a problem with the outcome (and we know an unfortunate reason why some apparently do).

Furthermore, it's a vote amongst humans. Call it whatever you want, but that will always eventually generate a difference of opinions - sometimes more than others.

Lastly, on TNT, we saw Charles Barkley - a very outspoken black man - strongly criticizing a white reporter (Dan LeBatard) who insisted the Nash won because he was white. Magic Johnson also supported the vote. That doesn't seem to me like there's such a clear cut for Shaq as you would like everyone to believe.

Actually, I found one point Barkely made to be quite interesting. He mentioned that he believes people may have a tendency to vote for a small man over a big man - regardless of race - when there is a legitimate case for both. One could look at Iverson beating Shaq and Jason Kidd seriously challenging Tim Duncan in previous MVP voting.

[Nati Ice]

i think we should just throw everybody in jail for possibly subconsciously making a decision based on race

[Guest 34inXXIII]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 10 2005, 09:50 PM'][b][color="blue"]Also the Suns coach got Coach of the Year.... so which is it, if their coach had the most valuable player then he obviously didn't have to be a good coach, or was Nash the MVP because he had the "Coach of the year"..... That award was also a joke.... Karl from Denver was obviously the coach of the year [/color][/b]
[right][post="90781"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


C'mon now, BJ. Now you're just acting like a little brat because your big black brother didn't claim the MVP - which you seem to care about far more than he does. Were you equally offended and outraged when Tim Duncan won the MVP and his coach Gregg Popovich won Coach of the Year simultaneously? How about AI & Larry Brown claiming those awards in the same season? And what of Michael Jordan & Phil Jackson? Hell, Jackson had MJ and then the almighty Shaq; by your standards, he "obviously didn't have to be a good coach". Oh, and let's not forget Magic & Pat Riley.

[Guest BlackJesus]

I guess I can only hope that Phoenix meets Miami in the Finals and then we can see who the MVP really is .....

[Guest 34inXXIII]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='May 11 2005, 12:52 AM']I guess I can only hope that Phoenix meets Miami in the Finals and then we can see who the MVP really is .....
[right][post="90911"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

So last year's MVP should have been Ben Wallace, right?

[BengalsCat]

? Who was last years MVP... Next ? does it matter?? and finaly Who Cares????????

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengal_Freak' date='May 9 2005, 04:40 PM']if you wanna say that just the fact that nash took phoenix from not making the playoffs to the #1 team then maybe we can get Ben Gordon a couple of votes too...[b]i think every body seems to forget how the lakers have fallen apart since shaq left...did the same happen to dallas? no...[/b]
[right][post="90294"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


I think you forgot that they lost ALOT more than just Shaq.
They lost their coach AND the coach that replaced him.
They lost Gary Payton, Carl Malone AND Shaq too.

But the Suns improved 33 games from last year.
Nash made them better....I think he deserved the MVP no matter
what color he is...

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

Look at what happened to Phoenix when he was out earlier. What were they? 2-7.

And he was also the first since Stockton to average double digit assists.

Amare is a beast, but at least 5 points of his average is pure Nash. For Richardson and Joe Johnson...I'd say 6-8 pts.

I watch Phoenix games whenever I can...he runs the floor really well. Even Leandro Barbosa...who was a complete liability earlier in the season, seems to have learnt for him.

I think the only thing that might stop Nash are his defensive frailties and the fact that people might argue he's on a team of good shooters. But a lot of times, they're getting good looks cos of him.

Dallas need to step up and pull moves in the offseason to go to the all white lineup. Cuban should get it done.

Dirk, now Van Horn, Bradley in the middle, Pavel Podzolkin off the bench.


Swap Marquis Daniels for Bob Sura. Jerry Stackhouse should be moved for Jiri Welsch or for Bostjan Nachbar. Dampier, Finley and Abdul Wahad to Sacramento for Brad Miller and Darius Songalia and two second round picks. Jason Terry traded to Philly for Kyle Korver and 1st round pick. Josh Howard is dispatched to Utah for Matt Harpring or perhaps to the Bulls for Andres Nocioni

Finally, Dallas moves a pick to New Orleans and gets Casey Jacobsen. Maybe sign Chris Anderson as a free agent.

They can all grow Larry Bird type mullets. They'd be like Hick America's team...and the jersey of choice for the KKK.

Think about it Mark Cuban. Think about it.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Stanley Wilson's Dealer' date='May 11 2005, 04:53 PM']Look at what happened to Phoenix when he was out earlier. What were they? 2-7.

And he was also the first since Stockton to average double digit assists. 

Amare is a beast, but at least 5 points of his average is pure Nash. For Richardson and Joe Johnson...I'd say 6-8 pts.

I watch Phoenix games whenever I can...he runs the floor really well. Even Leandro Barbosa...who was a complete liability earlier in the season, seems to have learnt for him.

I think the only thing that might stop Nash are his defensive frailties and the fact that people might argue he's on a team of good shooters. But a lot of times, they're getting good looks cos of him.

Dallas need to step up and pull moves in the offseason to go to the all white lineup. Cuban should get it done.

Dirk, now Van Horn, Bradley in the middle, Pavel Podzolkin off the bench.
Swap Marquis Daniels for Bob Sura. Jerry Stackhouse should be moved for Jiri Welsch or for Bostjan Nachbar. Dampier, Finley and Abdul Wahad to Sacramento for Brad Miller and Darius Songalia and two second round picks. Jason Terry traded to Philly for Kyle Korver and 1st round pick. Josh Howard is dispatched to Utah for Matt Harpring or perhaps to the Bulls for Andres Nocioni

Finally, Dallas moves a pick to New Orleans and gets Casey Jacobsen. Maybe sign Chris Anderson as a free agent.

They can all grow Larry Bird type mullets. They'd be like Hick America's team...and the jersey of choice for the KKK.

Think about it Mark Cuban. Think about it.
[right][post="91081"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

[BengalsCat]

[quote name='Stanley Wilson's Dealer' date='May 11 2005, 04:53 PM']Look at what happened to Phoenix when he was out earlier. What were they? 2-7.

And he was also the first since Stockton to average double digit assists. 

Amare is a beast, but at least 5 points of his average is pure Nash. For Richardson and Joe Johnson...I'd say 6-8 pts.

I watch Phoenix games whenever I can...he runs the floor really well. Even Leandro Barbosa...who was a complete liability earlier in the season, seems to have learnt for him.

I think the only thing that might stop Nash are his defensive frailties and the fact that people might argue he's on a team of good shooters. But a lot of times, they're getting good looks cos of him.

Dallas need to step up and pull moves in the offseason to go to the all white lineup. Cuban should get it done.

Dirk, now Van Horn, Bradley in the middle, Pavel Podzolkin off the bench.
Swap Marquis Daniels for Bob Sura. Jerry Stackhouse should be moved for Jiri Welsch or for Bostjan Nachbar. Dampier, Finley and Abdul Wahad to Sacramento for Brad Miller and Darius Songalia and two second round picks. Jason Terry traded to Philly for Kyle Korver and 1st round pick. Josh Howard is dispatched to Utah for Matt Harpring or perhaps to the Bulls for Andres Nocioni

Finally, Dallas moves a pick to New Orleans and gets Casey Jacobsen. Maybe sign Chris Anderson as a free agent.

They can all grow Larry Bird type mullets. They'd be like Hick America's team...and the jersey of choice for the KKK.

Think about it Mark Cuban. Think about it.
[right][post="91081"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


that is some of the funniest shit i have read today

[NateDawg]

[quote name='BengalsCat' date='May 11 2005, 09:15 AM']? Who was last years MVP... Next ? does it matter?? and finaly Who Cares????????
[right][post="90941"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

im pretty sure it wa Duncan....i might be wrong though...anyways if it was duncan i think we saw shaw and tha lakers beat them

after every game i start to believe more and more thats its gonna be miami and phoenix....hopefully it is so we can finally see who the real mvp is

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengal_Freak' date='May 11 2005, 04:50 PM']im pretty sure it wa Duncan....i might be wrong though...anyways if it was duncan i think we saw shaw and tha lakers beat them

after every game i start to believe more and more thats its gonna be miami and phoenix....hopefully it is so we can finally see who the real mvp is
[right][post="91125"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



It was Kevin Garnett.

[url="http://www.nba.com/news/garnett_mvp_040503.html"]http://www.nba.com/news/garnett_mvp_040503.html[/url]



And how could we see who the real MVP is if they play ?
The best TEAM wins...not the best PLAYER.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='jza10304' date='May 9 2005, 02:47 PM']The Heat were 4th seed in the East (at 2 games over .500 42-40) and this year they get home-court throughout the playoffs in the East and the 2nd best record in franchise history (59-23).  All this while giving up Odom, Butler, and Grant.  Nash helped them out tremendously but he is not the [b]most dominant player[/b] in the league, much less his team (Stoudamire is).
[right][post="90205"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
goo thing its not the MDP award then isnt it?

[quote name='Hooky' date='May 10 2005, 09:06 AM']Perhaps, but how many voted for Shaq because Nash is white?
[right][post="90526"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

testify...

[quote name='Jason' date='May 10 2005, 09:35 AM']How anyone could see race as an issue in this is unbelieveable.  How many black NBA MVPs have there been?  Probably more than there have been white.  Heck Wilt won several when race was a bigger national issue than it is now.  Not to mention Bill Russel, Oscar Robinson, and Kareem.

Whether the MVP should have been Nash or Shaq is a valid arguement.  But to think race played a part is just ludicrous!
[right][post="90532"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

testify....


and what happened to the teams they left is a non issues as well, LA also lost a 5+ time championship winnin coach, shaw left kobe with a bunch of young rookies, average older players, and a new coach. nash left with the entire team still in tact,

nash deserved it, but i think the voting came down to expectation, shaq is expected to do this or that, nash came in and did soemthing he isnt expected to do, and he and shaq were about equal in value, respectively. if you put shaq in the suns do they win anymore games? maybe 1-3, if you put nash on the heat do they win anymore games? maybe 1-3... i think it was probably a draw, but nash made people around him better, and shaq, continued to make himself, the spotlight..