MichaelWeston Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 I really like the discussion of who we take at our pick. It seems to have centered on QB, WR, DT, DE or DB. We have heard the names of QB: Luck, Mallett, Newton WR: Green (Blackmon, Jones if trade down) DT: Fairley, Dareus DE: Bowers, Quinn DB: Peterson, (Namukara sic) I think the majority want a DT or DE while a vocal minority want Green and a handful are intrigued about what Peterson could do at FS (Or if Joseph was gone) The argument for a DT/DE seems to be that 1) You can never have enough pass rushers 2) Despite some talent at the position we were horrible the last two years in terms of pass rush 3) This is a deep draft for WR and we can get one in the second round The argument for WR seems to be 1) We need to let OC and TO go 2) We have more talent at DE/DT then WR The argument for FS/DB seems to be 1) Peterson is a ridiculous stud 2) We have no real FS At WR we have WR Johnson 2011 Cosby 2010 Hodge 2010 WR Shipley 2013 Simpson 2011 WR Owens 2010 Caldwell 2011 At DT/DE we have LE Dunlap 2013 Johnson 2012 Rucker 2010 Ruffin UDFA LT Atkins 2013 Johnson 2013 McDonald 2011 RT Peko 2014 Sims 2011 RE Geathers 2012 Fanene 2010 Odom 2012 Ayendeju AT FS/CB we have S Williams 2010 Ndukwe 2010 Murray 2010 Miles UDFA White Harris S Crocker 2012 Nelson 2010 Wilson 2010 Nelson 2010 Ratliff CB Hall 2011 Ghee 2013 Trent 2012 Bennett CB Joseph 2010 Jones 2011 Wade In the last 4 drafts these players have been chosen in the top 10 at these positions WR 2009-7 Darius Heyward Bey-Raiders 2009-10 Michael Crabtree-49ers 2007-2 Calvin Johnson-Lions DT 2010-2 Ndamukong Suh-Lions 2010-3 Gerald McCoy-Bucs 2009-9 BJ Raji-Packers 2008-5 Glenn Dorsey-Cheifs 2008-7 Sedrick Ellis-Saints 2007-10 Amobi Okoye-Texans DE 2010-10 Tyson Alualu-Jaguars 2009-3 Tyson Jackson-Cheifs 2008-2 Chris Long-Rams 2008-6 Vernon Gholston-Jets 2008-8 Derrick Harvey-Jaguars 2007-4 Gaines Adams-Bucs 2007-8 Jamaal Anderson-Falcons 2006-1 Mario Williams-Texans S 2010-5 Eric Berry-Chiefs 2007-6 Laron Landry-Skins 2006-7 Michael Huff-Raiders 2006-8 Donte Whitmer-Bills The success of the players who have been recently drafted at these positions are not really an indicator of success for other players, however this seems to be a deterrent for taking a DE and makes DT look like a pretty safe pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 If Atkins and Dunlap had not revived our pass rush, I would have been on board with Bowers. (I still wouldn't be "upset" if we took him.) But if we had been pressuring the QB all year the way we have since Dunlap and Atkins started playing a lot, we would be in the top 10 or 12 in sacks. I can live with that as good as our CBs are. As for Fairly or Dareus, the way we rotate our DTs, and move DEs inside on passing downs, would either of them really play enough to justify a very high pick? Our biggest need is O-line, but none of them are worth where we are picking. Safety is a need, but there are several good safeties that will be available in 2 or 3. I'm not sure I want to use the 3rd pick on a safety who has never played safety before. Plus I think Reggie Nelson is showing some positive signs. The biggest remaining need is WR, and as highly rated a prospect as AJ Green is, it's a good fit. As for QB, I don't think Carson has been the biggest problem this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1293917701' post='955553'] [b]If Atkins and Dunlap had not revived our pass rush, I would have been on board with Bowers. (I still wouldn't be "upset" if we took him.) But if we had been pressuring the QB all year the way we have since Dunlap and Atkins started playing a lot, we would be in the top 10 or 12 in sacks. I can live with that as good as our CBs are. As for Fairly or Dareus, the way we rotate our DTs, and move DTs inside on passing downs, would either of them really play enough to justify a very high pick?[/b] Our biggest need is O-line, but none of them are worth where we are picking. Safety is a need, but there are several good safeties that will be available in 2 or 3. I'm not sure I want to use the 3rd pick on a safety who has never played safety before. Plus I think Reggie Nelson is showing some positive signs. The biggest remaining need is WR, and as highly rated a prospect as AJ Green is, it's a good fit. As for QB, I don't think Carson has been the biggest problem this year. [/quote] I think I agree with everything you said, but I wouldn't under state the need for quality depth at DL. How did the Giants take down the greatest offensive juggernaut ever assembled? With Strahan, Umenyora, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I don't think we have a single 3 down DT on the roster. Can Fairley be that guy? Adding a piece who can play in every situation would be a huge boost to our DL rotation and give them even more freedom to confuse offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1293926943' post='955575'] I think I agree with everything you said, but I wouldn't under state the need for quality [b]depth[/b] at DL. How did the Giants take down the greatest offensive juggernaut ever assembled? With Strahan, Umenyora, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I don't think we have a single 3 down DT on the roster. Can Fairley be that guy? Adding a piece who can play in every situation would be a huge boost to our DL rotation and give them even more freedom to confuse offenses. [/quote] But do you take "depth" with a top 10 pick? I could easily see DT or DE in the 3rd or 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1293927690' post='955579'] But do you take "depth" with a top 10 pick? I could easily see DT or DE in the 3rd or 4th. [/quote] We have a lot of depth, but really lack an every down guy. Fairley or Bowers would give us a legit presence to (hopefully) pair with Dunlap and allow the part time players we have (Geathers, Peko and Sims on the early downs, MJ and Atkins on the passing downs) to find even more success in their roles. Bowers-Peko-Sims-Dunlap on rush downs Bowers-Atkins-Dunlap-MJ on pass downs Or Geathers-Peko-Fairley-Dunlap on rush downs MJ-Atkins-Fairley-Dunlap on pass downs Both situations leave quality guys on the bench (Geathers, Fanene, and Sims) and have players that can get to the QB on the field in every situation. Year in and year out the way to win this division is to impose your will on defense. Adding the best defensive player in this draft could give us the best DL in the division and I think that will get us closer to the playoffs than picking up a dominant WR that good defensive teams (read: Steelers) can completely take out of the game (think Chad for the past 8 years) with good scheming and QB pressure. I think a part of me just really really wants to be a dominant defensive team at any cost to the offense, but I believe we have a lot of the peices in place to have an efficient offense that would be a great compliment to an excellent defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1293931684' post='955598'] We have a lot of depth, but really lack an every down guy. Fairley or Bowers would give us a legit presence to (hopefully) pair with Dunlap and allow the part time players we have (Geathers, Peko and Sims on the early downs, MJ and Atkins on the passing downs) to find even more success in their roles. Bowers-Peko-Sims-Dunlap on rush downs Bowers-Atkins-Dunlap-MJ on pass downs Or Geathers-Peko-Fairley-Dunlap on rush downs MJ-Atkins-Fairley-Dunlap on pass downs Both situations leave quality guys on the bench (Geathers, Fanene, and Sims) and have players that can get to the QB on the field in every situation. Year in and year out the way to win this division is to impose your will on defense. Adding the best defensive player in this draft could give us the best DL in the division and I think that will get us closer to the playoffs than picking up a dominant WR that good defensive teams (read: Steelers) can completely take out of the game (think Chad for the past 8 years) with good scheming and QB pressure. I think a part of me just really really wants to be a dominant defensive team at any cost to the offense, but I believe we have a lot of the peices in place to have an efficient offense that would be a great compliment to an excellent defense. [/quote] Pretty interesting take. What do you think is a greater difference from our current reality? I think Tank Johnson needs to be included as well. He is signed through 2013 Bowers-Peko-Sims-Dunlap on rush downs Bowers-Atkins-Dunlap-MJ on pass downs Or Geathers-Peko-Fairley-Dunlap on rush downs MJ-Atkins-Fairley-Dunlap on pass downs Vs Geathers-Peko-Sims-Dunlap on rush downs Johnson-Atkins-Johnson-Dunlap on pass downs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 While AJ Green and Fairley provide a similar level of ability at their respective positions, I think the thing that seperates Fairley is his leadership, presence, and his ability to motivate those around him. Based on this, Fairley ticks off more of the boxes that the Bengals require at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 [quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1300669144' post='978541'] While AJ Green and Fairley provide a similar level of ability at their respective positions, I think the thing that seperates Fairley is his leadership, presence, and his ability to motivate those around him. Based on this, Fairley ticks off more of the boxes that the Bengals require at this point in time. [/quote] There are a lot of things I like about Fairley, but I'm not sure leadership is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfan850 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1300711982' post='978610'] There are a lot of things I like about Fairley, but I'm not sure leadership is one of them. [/quote] yeah i haven't heard anything about him really being a leader. could be wrong tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1300711982' post='978610'] There are a lot of things I like about Fairley, but I'm not sure leadership is one of them. [/quote] jason, if you watched nick's games (and i'm sure you did, maybe just with different eyes) it was incredible how his emotion would seem to flow throughout the team. i saw this happen not only with the defense, but when he changed momentum with a big play, it often had a carryover effect and sparked the offense out of their previous doldrums. i got the feel of that often. now maybe the level of my take was over hyped, but it sure seemed to me he was their leader and inspired them to a different level. i call that putting a team on your back and carrying them, and that's what i often saw nick fairley do. it wasn't so much a vocal thing, but it sure seemed to be an example type situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1301349220' post='980523'] jason, if you watched nick's games (and i'm sure you did, maybe just with different eyes) it was incredible how his emotion would seem to flow throughout the team. i saw this happen not only with the defense, but when he changed momentum with a big play, it often had a carryover effect and sparked the offense out of their previous doldrums. i got the feel of that often. now maybe the level of my take was over hyped, but it sure seemed to me he was their leader and inspired them to a different level. i call that putting a team on your back and carrying them, and that's what i often saw nick fairley do. it wasn't so much a vocal thing, but it sure seemed to be an example type situation. [/quote] I'm not saying his play didn't inspire his teammates, but that wasn't what I was thinking of as "leadership". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1301354588' post='980541'] I'm not saying his play didn't inspire his teammates, but that wasn't what I was thinking of as "leadership". [/quote] ok good enough. we'll call it a matter of terminology. but it's been well documented that some lead vocally, and some really do lead by example. i think nick has shown a propensity for the latter, that's all i was sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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