Guest oldschooler Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 14 2005, 04:15 PM']She is a loser...of her son. She wants to protest peacefully, that's okay by me. [right][post="130771"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] She is a loser for exploiting the death of her son... I guess you missed these quotes from her AFTER she met George Bush ? Here let me post them again... [b]"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss.[/b] And I know he's a man of faith." For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle. For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again. [b]"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said. [/b] She got what she wanted in her first meeting. Now she just wants to be a bullhorn for the MoveOn.org`s and other Liberal Anti-War Anti Bush bull shit artist...It wouldn`t surprise me if she was getting paid to protest. She should STFU already... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/32.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 14 2005, 06:15 PM']She is a loser...of her son. She wants to protest peacefully, that's okay by me. [right][post="130771"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I agree with you homer she has lost her son, and she does have the right to do what she is doing. Even if she becomes the Terri Schiavo of the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 14 2005, 04:32 PM']I agree with you homer she has lost her son, and she does have the right to do what she is doing. [right][post="130784"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I agree she has the right. She is acting like Bush hasn`t ever taken the time to hear her and like he doesn`t care... But she met with him once before and came away from THAT meeting talking differently than she is now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Doesn't she realize that he is President of nearly 300 million people? And she wants him all to herself. She sounds pretty selfish to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 I am tired of the media devotion given to this woman, particularly in light of the fact that she has shown nothing but media savvy rather than true remorse, that she is tied to and has become the mouthpiece of BS groups like MoveOn.suckmy[b]org[/b]an and that she showed up in a bus emblazoned with impeachment slogans against Bush. Sure, it's her right to assemble and protest as she sees fit. But all of her ducks aren't in a row. I am so sick of garbage like this that I wouldn't object if Secret Service decided to snipe her whiny ass from the grassy knoll on direct orders from the President for being a hypocritical, limelight-grubbing pain in the ass.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 It amazes me that some of you folks get riled up about this, but that you barely peep at the mismanagement of this ill-conceived, ill-advised, immoral war. Not only has this admin fucked up our foreign policy for the next generation while saddling your kids with incredible debt, he is also destroying the military in the process. "BOHICA!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote]It amazes me that some of you folks get riled up about this, but that you barely peep at the mismanagement of this ill-conceived, ill-advised, immoral war.[/quote] [b]Reminded me of this old Joke ....[/b] A guest pastor walks into a church and starts talking. "I have three things to say to you today – 1) “Millions of children die in Africa each year from starvation.†2) “You don't give a fuck about it.†3) “Most of you are more upset by the fact that I just said 'fuck ' in church than you are about the fact that millions of children die of starvation every year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Clinton destroyed our military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 15 2005, 12:11 AM']It amazes me that some of you folks get riled up about this, but that you barely peep at the mismanagement of this ill-conceived, ill-advised, immoral war. Not only has this admin fucked up our foreign policy for the next generation while saddling your kids with incredible debt, he is also destroying the military in the process. "BOHICA!" [right][post="131010"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I have stated my position several times. Saddam should have been taken out in 1991. He wasn`t...we ALLOWED him to stay in power. He had terms to his surrender that ALLOWED him to stay in power. But He kicked the weapons inspectors out in 1998. He shot at our planes patrolling the No Fly Zones. He tortured and killed MILLIONS of his own people. He defied the terms that ALLOWED him to stay in power for 11 years. After 9/11 the way Saddam HAD to be dealt with changed. We couldn`t ALLOW him to continue to be the way he had been before. HE could have avoided war...but HE CHOSE not to. So it was a price that had to be paid...and money well spent. How about we start blaming the people that are actually the reason wars started instead of a President that you don`t like because of his party affliation or because he is a devout Christian, or because he doesn`t care what "some people" think... he`s does what he thinks is right for OUR Country. We ALL are on the SAME side. We ALL want the SAME things... America to be safe, prosperous and at peace with the World. But sometimes you got to have WAR to have PEACE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 15 2005, 01:11 AM']It amazes me that some of you folks get riled up about this, but that you barely peep at the mismanagement of this ill-conceived, ill-advised, immoral war. Not only has this admin fucked up our foreign policy for the next generation while saddling your kids with incredible debt, he is also destroying the military in the process. "BOHICA!" [right][post="131010"][/post][/right][/quote] not everyone thinks that... our foreign policy has supposedly been fucked for a long time now... and destroying the military?? come on homer... our military was cut by clinton... that is a fact... bush has upgraded the military to at least respectablility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 My goodness. The first step to fixing a problem is to recognize that a problem exists. Old, I don't doubt your honest motivations. I just think you are wrong. I have reasons for thinking you are wrong and they are mostly along methological lines. If you think I oppose this war because I dislike the Prez's party affiliation or his faith, then that simply proves my point. I've actively supported a number of Republican candidates with both labor and dollars over the years, even though I consider myself to be a conservative Democrat. And it is true that I think there is a lot of bad theology going on nowadays, and that the Prez believes in some of it; but it is also true that I think that has less relevance in determining foreign policy than others do. Clinton didn't destroy our military, that honor goes to the current holders of power, especially Rummy's faction of military strategists. I do agree that Clinton's impulse in the post Cold War era was to take advantage of a "peace dividend" that may have been a little chimerical, but that's only a contribution to the situation. It's one thing not to put gas in the car: that's careless. It's another thing to know that the car is low on gas and to still take it out for a spin: that's reckless. And I agree that our foreign policy has been problematic. My arguments in this regard would go back to the post WWII period. But even in the prevailing geopolitical climate (much of which I disagree with), it's pretty clear that the implementation of the Bush Doctrine represents an important change of direction the conduct of American foreign policy. The concepts of "pre-emption" and "imminent danger" are a tricky topic in international law, but we've gone too far, imo. But forget all that, let's just buy into the cynical counterattack of the apologists for this admin's actions by beating up on a woman who lost her son and who is trying to use our political system to change what she believes it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Ok, so you have a team, you cut their funds, their uniforms are shabby, some players don't even have jerseys. They don't get out on the playing field. Then the next coach comes along, gets their funding, puts them out there in the game. Who ruined our military again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 homer, you act like we're so stupid b/c we don't agree that its a mistake to fight back against terror... i think that its wrong for you to continuely point out that "we'll never fix the problem if we don't recognize it" and you completely dismiss our premise all together... my problem w/ these statements are this... if we find chemical weapons, they're not nuclear... if we find a connection w/ al qaeda and iraq, its not a 9/11-iraq connection... IF there is a 9/11-iraq connection, you guys will just move to the nuclear weapons not being found again (like they couldn't have moved them)... there is no way for you to ever support what we are doing... but you criticize us for not jumping on the antiwar movement... quite frankly, i would rather be wrong fighting, than be right and not fighting... though i don't think we're wrong in what we're doing, my point still stands... my problem w/ your reasoning is that i don't think you are open to change any judgements... you always call this an unjust war, but i dont' think that if we found the "smoking gun" w/ a nuclear bomb and a picture of saddam pissing on an american flag, you still wouldn't change your view... maybe you think the exact same thing as pro iraq war folks, but you have to see our point... we were attacked... saddam was warned many many times... we do have a point... evidence is filtering through that may or may not change the views of historians in this war (you know what documents i mean) and they even found mass quantities of chemicals again... they may or may not be proven to be used as weapons, but even if they are, they won't be enough to stop you from saying it was just all lies... imo, history is important... no question about that... BUT it isn't everything... this isn't 1969 in vietnam... this isn't the (whatever century) of the roman empire... we haven't faced an enemy like we are today EVER.... so we need to pay attention to history, but not base everything off of history... i'll end my rant by saying that i do respect your point of view, b/c you are more knowledgable about the world in general than i probably ever will be... but i know one thing... when faced w/ a threat, i fight... we were threatened by saddam like we are now by iran... i don't say lets start a bombing raid on tehran, but i do say lets threaten them so they don't obliverate israel, our troops in iraq, afghanistan, or God forbid, Washington DC... i'm not tryng to change your mind necessarily, b/c i dont' think that is possible.. i just want to point out what i see (and others probably see also)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 15 2005, 11:50 AM']My goodness. The first step to fixing a problem is to recognize that a problem exists. Old, I don't doubt your honest motivations. I just think you are wrong. I have reasons for thinking you are wrong and they are mostly along methological lines. If you think I oppose this war because I dislike the Prez's party affiliation or his faith, then that simply proves my point. I've actively supported a number of Republican candidates with both labor and dollars over the years, even though I consider myself to be a conservative Democrat. And it is true that I think there is a lot of bad theology going on nowadays, and that the Prez believes in some of it; but it is also true that I think that has less relevance in determining foreign policy than others do. [right][post="131176"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Then you would fall under the "because he doesn`t care what "some people" think... he`s does what he thinks is right for OUR Country." hater... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [img]http://www.afa.org/magazine/april2000/0400def1a.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote]or God forbid, Washington DC[/quote] Yes please stay away from DC, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [img]http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/mt/hey_cindy.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Here's a funny twist. Seems these rural neighbors are getting a little pissed at these protesters. I probably would too, since most people that live out in the rural areas do so to escape the noise of too many people. [url="http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16264378-23109,00.html"][b]Shots fired near Bush protesters[/b][/url] [quote]August 15, 2005 A FRUSTRATED local farmer fired shots into the air today near hundreds of protesters who began their second week of demonstrations against the Iraq war outside US President George W Bush's ranch. Larry Mattlage, who lives next to the Bush ranch where the president is spending a five week vacation, complained about the 200 protesters, media and government security officials occupying the road outside his own residence after firing a rifle into the air several times. "Five weeks of this is too much. We live here, this is our community," Mattlage said in footage shown by CNN television, while insisting the gunshots were just him "getting ready for dove season". "I shot at a bird, and missed it a while ago," he said. Asked if the gunshots had another message, Mattlage told reporters: "Figure it out for yourself". An anti-war protest outside Bush's Prairie Chapel ranch, launched a week ago by Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, has garnered heavy media attention as public opinion polls show a sharp decline in support for the Iraq war. The demonstrators have planted some 500 white wooden crosses on the road to the Bush ranch, each with the name of a US soldier killed in Iraq, including Sheehan's son Casey.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [i]Hell opened up and put on a sale Gather 'round and haggle For hard cash, we will lie and deceive Even our masters don't know the web we weave [/i] [b]---Pink Floyd, Dogs of War[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='steggyD' date='Aug 15 2005, 01:09 PM']Ok, so you have a team, you cut their funds, their uniforms are shabby, some players don't even have jerseys. They don't get out on the playing field. Then the next coach comes along, gets their funding, puts them out there in the game. Who ruined our military again? [right][post="131202"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] You're a jarhead (and I say that affectionately, as a squid) so surely you can see that there are some serious problems running this war on the ground. As I said, I don't absolve the Clinton admin. But, you can't blame that admin for how this war is being run. Who fired Shinseki? Who planned the CPA? Who fired Garner and hired Bremer? Who said that we would be welcomed as liberators? Who took 1.4 billion out of the budget for vets, only putting it back in when pressured? Who is doing the BRAC closings? There's more, but you get the thrust of my concerns. I'm worried that we might not have much of a force left by the time we extract ourselves from the country. (And I know that that cannot be done overnight.) The civilians running the show are making a lot of senior officers angry. Is that anger misplaced? I would love to hear the pov of Bung's father, as he was up there in the hierarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Aug 15 2005, 01:22 PM']homer, you act like we're so stupid b/c we don't agree that its a mistake to fight back against terror... i think that its wrong for you to continuely point out that "we'll never fix the problem if we don't recognize it" and you completely dismiss our premise all together... my problem w/ these statements are this... if we find chemical weapons, they're not nuclear... if we find a connection w/ al qaeda and iraq, its not a 9/11-iraq connection... IF there is a 9/11-iraq connection, you guys will just move to the nuclear weapons not being found again (like they couldn't have moved them)... there is no way for you to ever support what we are doing... but you criticize us for not jumping on the antiwar movement... quite frankly, i would rather be wrong fighting, than be right and not fighting... though i don't think we're wrong in what we're doing, my point still stands...[/quote] I don't quite get this graf, but I think that you attribute some claims that other people have made to me. My objections to invading Iraq are not that complex, really. I think the country was sufficiently contained and was not a threat to our interests. I think the reason we invaded Iraq had to do with a shift in geopolitical strategy. I disagree with that shift. Now, history may prove me wrong, but as of this moment, I have no reason to think otherwise. [quote]quite frankly, i would rather be wrong fighting, than be right and not fighting...[/quote] Think about what you said for a while. Maybe there's a better way to state your idea? [quote]my problem w/ your reasoning is that i don't think you are open to change any judgements... you always call this an unjust war, but i dont' think that if we found the "smoking gun" w/ a nuclear bomb and a picture of saddam pissing on an american flag, you still wouldn't change your view... maybe you think the exact same thing as pro iraq war folks, but you have to see our point... we were attacked... saddam was warned many many times... we do have a point...[/quote] I see your point, I simply disagree with it. If you think I easily came to the conclusion that this is an unjust and immoral war, then we disagree. And it is not likely I will change my view. [quote]evidence is filtering through that may or may not change the views of historians in this war (you know what documents i mean) and they even found mass quantities of chemicals again... they may or may not be proven to be used as weapons, but even if they are, they won't be enough to stop you from saying it was just all lies...[/quote] Not sure what you mean here. But it is true that I think the American population was lied to on numerous occasions. [quote]imo, history is important... no question about that... BUT it isn't everything... this isn't 1969 in vietnam... this isn't the (whatever century) of the roman empire... we haven't faced an enemy like we are today EVER.... so we need to pay attention to history, but not base everything off of history...[/quote] I think you are either misunderstanding what I said, or misrepresenting it. But, Mithradates VI Eupator, approx 80/90 bc. The "terrorist" act that provoked warfare then was in some respects more terrible than what happened on 9-11. [quote]when faced w/ a threat, i fight... we were threatened by saddam like we are now by iran... i don't say lets start a bombing raid on tehran, but i do say lets threaten them so they don't obliverate israel, our troops in iraq, afghanistan, or God forbid, Washington DC... [right][post="131213"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Well, the four years I spent in the Navy wasn't the act of a conscientious objector, so I have no problem with your sentiment. It does help to pick the right fights, though. I don't think we'll be suckered into war with Iran like we were suckered into war with Iraq. Though, the neocons are trying, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 15 2005, 01:22 PM']Then you would fall under the "because he doesn`t care what "some people" think... he`s does what he thinks is right for OUR Country."[/quote] Well, I wish he'd do a little more negotiating with himself before he commits the lives of Americans to battle. [quote]hater... [right][post="131214"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] What are you, a kettle looking for a lid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 15 2005, 02:06 PM']Well, I wish he'd do a little more negotiating with himself before he commits the lives of Americans to battle. [right][post="131266"][/post][/right][/quote] Saddam had 11 years. He had almost a full year after Bush started getting tough with him. I`m glad you didn`t dispute he is doing what he thinks is right for OUR Country though... [quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] What are you, a kettle looking for a lid?[/quote] I don`t see why or how this is funny. I`m not hating on Bush or any other Government official. Unlike you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 15 2005, 03:46 PM']I`m not hating on Bush or any other Government official. Unlike you... [right][post="131294"][/post][/right][/quote] Perhaps because you prefer to direct your hatred towards women who lose children in war? Feel free to copy and paste some hate from [url="http://www.nk-news.net/extras/insult_generator.php"]here.[/url] A few samples: You sycophantic running dog, you have glaringly revealed your true colours! You bloodthirsty hooligan, we will resolutely smash your desperate war moves! You bourgeois reactionary, we will thwart your frantic attempts to stifle us! You ultra-right philistine, we will annihilate you with a fresh revolutionary upswing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 15 2005, 04:53 PM']Perhaps because you prefer to direct your hatred towards women who lose children in war? [right][post="131388"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] When did I say I hate her ? I said... "I agree she has the right. She is acting like Bush hasn`t ever taken the time to hear her and like he doesn`t care... But she met with him once before and came away from THAT meeting talking differently than she is now..." Her family is begging her to stop exploiting her son`s death. And really that`s all I have done...I don`t hate her for it. I think she is blaming the wrong person for this war... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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