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Thanks for this thread. So tired of the constant doom and sadness. Frankly, I am super interested in what a fresh approach and new coaches and new coaching might do to breathe life back into what is still, at its core, a group of very talented players.

Everything hinges on Taylor and his staff. If he's some sort of "gem" coach he's going to build a roster that doesn't rely on big-ticket FA's or home-run draft picks (which I believe can be done under the MB regime). Yes, on paper the Bengals are no better than last year so this year certainly doesn't look promising, and they're definitely not a Super Bowl contender on paper. But let's take the defense as an example. The biggest change last year was a DC who was nothing less than hot garbage. Thus, I'm not sure a defensive lineup that remained largely unchanged between the year before and last season performing so much worse can't perform that much better with an actual coach who knows what he's doing (which we don't know about the new guy yet either). As for the "window closing" argument, what happened the last time we had a full-on changing of the guard? Yep, we went to the playoffs for 5 years straight. We can nit-pick and argue over individual players and their impact, but using history as a guide doesn't exactly support a 5-year window of misery just because we have to find a new core. To be fair the original article/argument is whether a team is a *Super Bowl* contender, not just a playoff team, and that is certainly a harder criteria to meet, and out of those playoff years I personally only felt like we were contenders maybe twice. The only piece of *potential* (yet circumstantial) evidence we have is the assumption that Taylor will run the team like McVey runs the Rams. Under that assumption we'd need to be able to sign some significant FA's, and yes I agree there's no evidence that that will suddenly start happening. But again, that hinges on Taylor and until we see the outcomes none of us knows anything worth making bets on.

This is where I’m at. The big thing is seeing if a fresh, younger coaching staff can manage to gameplan and scheme based on the talent in the building. That is, acknowledging round pegs and creating round holes for them to play within. It’s tough to tell how shitty or lackluster some of our guys truly were the past couple seasons and how much of it was just shitty, uninspired and unbending coaching. I am a believer that good coaching and teaching actually can make a difference, even at the NFL level. Time and time again New England, for instance, has been able to weather tough mid season injuries and still win championships.

Well we're not discussing a competent franchise, we're discussing our beloved Bengals. They thought enough of Smith to draft him #6 overall 10 years ago despite him completely bombing the pre-draft process, so obviously they are big time Smith fans.

& I'm starting to think a swift exit in free agency. Why would you not go get paid more to play for a better team? I guess there's the benefit of low expectations or being able to sometimes botch a catch for an interception & know everyone will blame the QB. On a more talented team he would be held accountable instead of being treated like a guest of honor just for showing up.

Thanks Inigo!...I always enjoy reading recaps from folks that attend training camp in person. Speaking of that...does anyone know if Patmo is still around? He was awesome this time of year...sadly I've not seen any posts from him in a looonnnngggg time.

Fair enough. Embarrassing story time? I'm pretty sure he was signing autographs at a Reds game I went to years ago & I only vaguely knew who he was then. I've never been much for autographs but there wasn't even a line since the game had started & they were packing up the booth. Exchanged a hello & wave walking by but of course now I wish I would've stopped to at least shake his hand. Not just because I've since learned he was one of the greatest; automatic 1st round HoF'er with more accolades than you can count. NL Rookie of the Year in 1956 says everything if you consider our history but he won everything else too. MVP in both leagues! 3 different teams retired his number.. I've posted the list down below, it's crazy. So yeah my ignorant ass just walked by like "oh yeah I've heard of this guy!" Derp. Honestly he seemed like such a nonchalant chill older gentleman you'd have no idea the guy was who he was. Had the laugh-line wrinkles though like I bet his grandkids had many a quarter pulled out of their ears. Anyway.. RIP to one BAMF. 14× All-Star (1956, 1957, 1959, 1959², 1961, 1961², 1962², 1965–1967, 1969–1971, 1974) 2× World Series champion (1966, 1970) NL MVP (1961) AL MVP (1966) World Series MVP (1966) Triple Crown (1966) NL Rookie of the Year (1956) Gold Glove Award (1958) AL Manager of the Year (1989) Cincinnati Reds No. 20 retired Baltimore Orioles No. 20 retired Cleveland Indians No. 20 retired Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame Baltimore Orioles Hall of Fame Cleveland Indians Hall of Fame Washington Nationals Ring of Honor