Guest BengalBacker Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Just a couple of things. I never said BJ was un-American. I don't even know what that means. I said he hates America. I think that's obvious, and I think his response supports that. I think everyone also missed the part where I said that I'm not even saying he's wrong. I think he's the direct opposite of those who blindly support anything, and everything the government does. Both are Americans. One blindly hates everything we do and one blindly loves everything we do. Common sense lies somewhere in the middle. I don't hate BJ, and I don't think he should stop voicing his dissent. I often comment that I think his methods of how he voices it are counterproductive. In a way, I try to help him make his message more effective. I don't always disagree with his points. I seldom really argue sides on the issues. I'm pretty moderate on most things, I can see where both sides are coming from. The reason I probably come off as leaning more right than I really do, is because most of you who lean left have seemingly gone off the deep end. Over the year and a half this board has existed, can anyone argue the fact that 99% of those who lean right try to make reasoned arguments to defend their points, while 99% of those who lean left tend to spew nothing but hatred for Bush and all things Republican? That seems to be the Democratic platform these days, and to me it's pretty pathetic. The division it's creating is not a healthy kind of division. What should be simple disagreements in direction and policy is becoming hatred and resentment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='221438' date='Feb 22 2006, 03:29 PM']Just a couple of things. I never said BJ was un-American. I don't even know what that means. I said he hates America. I think that's obvious, and I think his response supports that. I think everyone also missed the part where I said that I'm not even saying he's wrong. I think he's the direct opposite of those who blindly support anything, and everything the government does. Both are Americans. One blindly hates everything we do and one blindly loves everything we do. Common sense lies somewhere in the middle. I don't hate BJ, and I don't think he should stop voicing his dissent. I often comment that I think his methods of how he voices it are counterproductive. In a way, I try to help him make his message more effective. I don't always disagree with his points. I seldom really argue sides on the issues. [b]I'm pretty moderate on most things, I can see where both sides are coming from. The reason I probably come off as leaning more right than I really do, is because most of you who lean left have seemingly gone off the deep end. Over the year and a half this board has existed, can anyone argue the fact that 99% of those who lean right try to make reasoned arguments to defend their points, while 99% of those who lean left tend to spew nothing but hatred for Bush and all things Republican? That seems to be the Democratic platform these days, and to me it's pretty pathetic.[/b] The division it's creating is not a healthy kind of division. What should be simple disagreements in direction and policy is becoming hatred and resentment.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='sneaky' post='221448' date='Feb 22 2006, 02:41 PM'][quote name='BengalBacker' post='221438' date='Feb 22 2006, 03:29 PM'] Just a couple of things. I never said BJ was un-American. I don't even know what that means. I said he hates America. I think that's obvious, and I think his response supports that. I think everyone also missed the part where I said that I'm not even saying he's wrong. I think he's the direct opposite of those who blindly support anything, and everything the government does. Both are Americans. One blindly hates everything we do and one blindly loves everything we do. Common sense lies somewhere in the middle. I don't hate BJ, and I don't think he should stop voicing his dissent. I often comment that I think his methods of how he voices it are counterproductive. In a way, I try to help him make his message more effective. I don't always disagree with his points. I seldom really argue sides on the issues. [b]I'm pretty moderate on most things, I can see where both sides are coming from. The reason I probably come off as leaning more right than I really do, is because most of you who lean left have seemingly gone off the deep end. Over the year and a half this board has existed, can anyone argue the fact that 99% of those who lean right try to make reasoned arguments to defend their points, while 99% of those who lean left tend to spew nothing but hatred for Bush and all things Republican? That seems to be the Democratic platform these days, and to me it's pretty pathetic.[/b] The division it's creating is not a healthy kind of division. What should be simple disagreements in direction and policy is becoming hatred and resentment.[/quote] [/quote] backer, sneaky's reply explains the problem the left has right now.. they don't think they have a problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='sneaky' post='221400' date='Feb 22 2006, 01:35 PM'][quote name='The_Joker' post='221395' date='Feb 22 2006, 02:29 PM'] I am giving BJ the benifit of the doubt ... Until I see him burning a flag he is still an American in my book.[/quote] [quote name='BlackJesus' post='221328' date='Feb 22 2006, 11:17 AM']Joker, I believe one of the most patriotic symbols that we have is a burning American flag .... to me it symbolizes a country that is so secure within it's principles that it understands they can't be harmed with a few matches ....[/quote] [quote name='The_Joker' post='221395' date='Feb 22 2006, 02:29 PM']BJ, Sure you you can make that argueement or free speech issue..blah blah...blah. But to do so out of hatred for this nation in protest is just a lack of respect for those who have defended your right to do so.[/quote] So I have the right to disrespect everybody else except for the people who defended my right to disrespect everyone else? [/quote] My quote was for symbolism...now as far as the disrespect goes..disrespect who you want, but then beware of the consequences. Disrespect the wrong person and your rights might be violated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalBacker Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='sneaky' post='221448' date='Feb 22 2006, 02:41 PM'][quote name='BengalBacker' post='221438' date='Feb 22 2006, 03:29 PM'] Just a couple of things. I never said BJ was un-American. I don't even know what that means. I said he hates America. I think that's obvious, and I think his response supports that. I think everyone also missed the part where I said that I'm not even saying he's wrong. I think he's the direct opposite of those who blindly support anything, and everything the government does. Both are Americans. One blindly hates everything we do and one blindly loves everything we do. Common sense lies somewhere in the middle. I don't hate BJ, and I don't think he should stop voicing his dissent. I often comment that I think his methods of how he voices it are counterproductive. In a way, I try to help him make his message more effective. I don't always disagree with his points. I seldom really argue sides on the issues. [b]I'm pretty moderate on most things, I can see where both sides are coming from. The reason I probably come off as leaning more right than I really do, is because most of you who lean left have seemingly gone off the deep end. Over the year and a half this board has existed, can anyone argue the fact that 99% of those who lean right try to make reasoned arguments to defend their points, while 99% of those who lean left tend to spew nothing but hatred for Bush and all things Republican? That seems to be the Democratic platform these days, and to me it's pretty pathetic.[/b] The division it's creating is not a healthy kind of division. What should be simple disagreements in direction and policy is becoming hatred and resentment.[/quote] [/quote] And once again, sneaky helps to prove my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='The_Joker' post='221460' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:14 PM']My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... [/quote] If we TRULY live in a free society where we can express our beliefs or opinions no matter how popular or unpopular they are.................................................................... then why should flag burning be illegal? Some say because it is disrespectful to the people who fought and died for this country. Well, some think a confederate flag is disrepectful to blacks, should we ban that flag? Some think swastikas are offensive to Jews, should we make those illegal too? Why should ones group or affiliation's disgust or anger be more important than anothers? Also, isnt it somewhat disrectful to put words in the deceased mouths? If we could communicate with the fallen, do you think they really would care? Do you think they would feel like that their sacrifices or accomplishments are now diminished because someone they never knew or met has just torched a flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='ONYX' post='221488' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:36 PM'][quote name='The_Joker' post='221460' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:14 PM'] My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... [/quote] If we TRULY live in a free society where we can express our beliefs or opinions no matter how popular or unpopular they are.................................................................... then why should flag burning be illegal? Some say because it is disrespectful to the people who fought and died for this country. Well, some think a confederate flag is disrepectful to blacks, should we ban that flag? Some think swastikas are offensive to Jews, should we make those illegal too? Why should ones group or affiliation's disgust or anger be more important than anothers? Also, isnt it somewhat disrectful to put words in the deceased mouths? If we could communicate with the fallen, do you think they really would care? Do you think they would feel like that their sacrifices or accomplishments are now diminished because someone they never knew or met has just torched a flag? [/quote] There is no such thing as absolute free speech. [url="http://www.freewarehof.org/speech.html"]http://www.freewarehof.org/speech.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Of course with any display of belief or opinion one should realize that there will be consequences. Positive, or negative responses should be expected. IMO, jail shouldn't be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 it shouldn't be illegial... but it should be frowned upon and people that do it, shouldn't expect any respect for doing it... burning the flag is literally saying "i hate america"... if you hate the current administration or hate the war, then voice your opinions... sure, you can burn the flag but by doing that, you are not saying "no iraq war"... you are saying "fuck america, i hope they all burn in hell"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='221492' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:43 PM'][quote name='sneaky' post='221488' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:36 PM'] [quote name='The_Joker' post='221460' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:14 PM'] My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... [/quote] If we TRULY live in a free society where we can express our beliefs or opinions no matter how popular or unpopular they are.................................................................... then why should flag burning be illegal? Some say because it is disrespectful to the people who fought and died for this country. Well, some think a confederate flag is disrepectful to blacks, should we ban that flag? Some think swastikas are offensive to Jews, should we make those illegal too? Why should ones group or affiliation's disgust or anger be more important than anothers? Also, isnt it somewhat disrectful to put words in the deceased mouths? If we could communicate with the fallen, do you think they really would care? Do you think they would feel like that their sacrifices or accomplishments are now diminished because someone they never knew or met has just torched a flag? [/quote] There is no such thing as absolute free speech. [url="http://www.freewarehof.org/speech.html"]http://www.freewarehof.org/speech.html[/url] [/quote] jamie, youre against my freedom of speech... and that article supports those faggots in the aclu... you obviously hate america, wo why dont you just just move to china, commie [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//33.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='221498' date='Feb 22 2006, 05:53 PM'][b][color="#CC0000"]it shouldn't be illegial[/color][/b]... [b][color="#3333FF"]but it should be frowned upon and people that do it, shouldn't expect any respect for doing it... burning the flag is literally saying "i hate america"... if you hate the current administration or hate the war, then voice your opinions... sure, you can burn the flag but by doing that, you are not saying "no iraq war"... you are saying "fuck america, i hope they all burn in hell"...[/color][/b][/quote] [b][color="#CC0000"]Hmmm....this is rare because I agree. Not only do I think it shouldn't be illegial but illegal too.[/color][/b] [b] [color="#3333FF"]That is a matter of opinion.[/color][/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='Nati Ice' post='221500' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:59 PM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='221492' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:43 PM'] [quote name='ONYX' post='221488' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:36 PM'] [quote name='The_Joker' post='221460' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:14 PM'] My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... [/quote] If we TRULY live in a free society where we can express our beliefs or opinions no matter how popular or unpopular they are.................................................................... then why should flag burning be illegal? Some say because it is disrespectful to the people who fought and died for this country. Well, some think a confederate flag is disrepectful to blacks, should we ban that flag? Some think swastikas are offensive to Jews, should we make those illegal too? Why should ones group or affiliation's disgust or anger be more important than anothers? Also, isnt it somewhat disrectful to put words in the deceased mouths? If we could communicate with the fallen, do you think they really would care? Do you think they would feel like that their sacrifices or accomplishments are now diminished because someone they never knew or met has just torched a flag? [/quote] There is no such thing as absolute free speech. [url="http://www.freewarehof.org/speech.html"]http://www.freewarehof.org/speech.html[/url] [/quote] jamie, youre against my freedom of speech... and that article supports those faggots in the aclu... you obviously hate america, wo why dont you just just move to china, commie [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//33.gif[/img] [/quote] Aside from my distane for the ACLU. That's Mr. Pinko Commie to you. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 [quote name='sneaky' post='221502' date='Feb 22 2006, 05:00 PM'][quote name='bengalrick' post='221498' date='Feb 22 2006, 05:53 PM'] [b][color="#CC0000"]it shouldn't be illegial[/color][/b]... [b][color="#3333FF"]but it should be frowned upon and people that do it, shouldn't expect any respect for doing it... burning the flag is literally saying "i hate america"... if you hate the current administration or hate the war, then voice your opinions... sure, you can burn the flag but by doing that, you are not saying "no iraq war"... you are saying "fuck america, i hope they all burn in hell"...[/color][/b][/quote] [b][color="#CC0000"]Hmmm....this is rare because I agree. Not only do I think it shouldn't be illegial but illegal too.[/color][/b] [b] [color="#3333FF"]That is a matter of opinion.[/color][/b] [/quote] shit, i guess i'm out of the spelling bee now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henrys Dealer Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Man I had no idea this thread exploded. BZ causing the ruckus from the shores of Lake Ontario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 I have no problems personally with anyone here. Hell, what's an internet message board really but an opinion board? I never would imply Bj or anyone else here is unamerican. Everyone's entitled to their thoughts, opinions, etc. And that kinda proves my earlier point that America (and BJ, to his credit, touched on this in a previous post) is the best country in the world for not only the opportunities it provides for those willing to educate themselves, work hard and build up a future or a retirement, but we can say, think or do just about anything we want to, and that includes criticising our government without fear of disappearing in the middle of the night and being shipped to the gulag or executed. And I hate to say it, right or wrong, that it is our financial compassion and our military might that in large part provides us these liberties and helps keep us in the position we are in. The video I posted that spawned all this nonsense was homemade by a bunch of marines that really don't have a choice in their destination or wars they have to fight once they sign up for service. I only take offence to the implication that serving your country by being a soldier is anything less than a noble venture. I did it, so did my Dad and both his brothers, three of my cousins, many friends, both grandpas...it's "in our blood", you could say. And I will vehemently defend our and this country's honor in that regard if it kills me. Instead of blaming the soldier, blame the policy if you wish. But don't demean a bunch of highly-trained, highly motivated killers having a little fun making a tape of their sorry situation. they HAVE to kill! It is their JOB! Somebody has to do it! As long as the "rules" are maintained with honor and integrity. Don't sit back while enjoying the freedoms our military provides and then do nothing but bitch about the manner in which it is provided... And furthermore, to finish, I'm tired of people bringing up our past social ills to try to demean America, like the plight of the American Indian, blacks, etc. While it was surely wrong, regrettable and distasteful, not only is there nothing us current generations of Americans can do about it but learn by not repeating those mistakes, but...admit reality and realize that EVERY OTHER COUNTRY on this planet has had these VERY SAME issues...and most haven't even progressed to our level! Chew on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote name='sneaky' post='221488' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:36 PM'][quote name='The_Joker' post='221460' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:14 PM'] My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... [/quote] If we TRULY live in a free society where we can express our beliefs or opinions no matter how popular or unpopular they are.................................................................... then why should flag burning be illegal? Some say because it is disrespectful to the people who fought and died for this country. Well, some think a confederate flag is disrepectful to blacks, should we ban that flag? Some think swastikas are offensive to Jews, should we make those illegal too? Why should ones group or affiliation's disgust or anger be more important than anothers? Also, isnt it somewhat disrectful to put words in the deceased mouths? If we could communicate with the fallen, do you think they really would care? Do you think they would feel like that their sacrifices or accomplishments are now diminished because someone they never knew or met has just torched a flag? [/quote] With out disrepecting the dead.... I would bet a years paycheck that if you were to raise a starved Jew, a beat to death or hung slave, a veteren from D-Day and wanted to tattoo the Jew with a swastika, the black man with stars and bars and burn the flag in front of the veteran you would face some adversity in doing so. I think they would all care....a least a little. After all they paid the ultimate price....would you? For anything? Confederate flag=dumb ass uneducated redneck Swastika= white supremisist peice of shit Burning the flag=People who hate America regardless of their race, color or creed....even the Hippies. Now given these categories, would we be better off in this world with out the extreme side of this? I never said that burning the flag was illegal, and I don't think it is. As a matter of fact that is the proper way to discard the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote name='The_Joker' post='221550' date='Feb 22 2006, 07:44 PM'][quote name='ONYX' post='221488' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:36 PM'] [quote name='The_Joker' post='221460' date='Feb 22 2006, 04:14 PM'] My burning the flag comment was meant to say that if you TRULY hate this country to burn our most sacred symbol then grab your sack and turn in your citizenship and move to another country that you can relate to. Disagree with our policies, people in office or voice your opinion how you wish that is the backbone of our nation. But what would burning our flag prove or help matters for that fact. It would only prove you have no idea WTF you stand for...IMO which with that and $.50 you can't even get a warm cup of that capitalisitic Starbucks... [/quote] If we TRULY live in a free society where we can express our beliefs or opinions no matter how popular or unpopular they are.................................................................... then why should flag burning be illegal? Some say because it is disrespectful to the people who fought and died for this country. Well, some think a confederate flag is disrepectful to blacks, should we ban that flag? Some think swastikas are offensive to Jews, should we make those illegal too? Why should ones group or affiliation's disgust or anger be more important than anothers? Also, isnt it somewhat disrectful to put words in the deceased mouths? If we could communicate with the fallen, do you think they really would care? Do you think they would feel like that their sacrifices or accomplishments are now diminished because someone they never knew or met has just torched a flag? [/quote] With out disrepecting the dead.... I would bet a years paycheck that if you were to raise a starved Jew, a beat to death or hung slave, a veteren from D-Day and wanted to tattoo the Jew with a swastika, the black man with stars and bars and burn the flag in front of the veteran you would face some adversity in doing so. I think they would all care....a least a little. After all they paid the ultimate price....would you? For anything? Confederate flag=dumb ass uneducated redneck Swastika= white supremisist peice of shit Burning the flag=People who hate America regardless of their race, color or creed....even the Hippies. Now given these categories, would we be better off in this world with out the extreme side of this? I never said that burning the flag was illegal, and I don't think it is. As a matter of fact that is the proper way to discard the flag. [/quote] Obviously there is a vast difference between burning the flag as a means of proper disposal and simply burning it because you hate the flag and everything it stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henrys Dealer Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote]Swastika= white supremisist peice of shit[/quote] [img]http://www.jainworld.org/general/prem/Clip%20Art%20for%20Education/images/SWASTIK.jpg[/img] But originally a 5,000 year old Hindu symbol meaning "let good prevail" and "prayer" Talk about totally changing the context of an image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote name='Bunghole' post='221534' date='Feb 22 2006, 07:17 PM']they HAVE to kill! It is their JOB! Somebody has to do it! As long as the "rules" are maintained with honor and integrity. Don't sit back while enjoying the freedoms our military provides and then do nothing but bitch about the manner in which it is provided...[/quote] [img]http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9913/afewgoodmen0md.jpg[/img] [size=4]You need me on that wall...I got a greater resposibility than you can even fathom[/size] Hey Bung I smell plagerism.... j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote name='Bunghole' post='221534' date='Feb 22 2006, 07:17 PM']I have no problems personally with anyone here. Hell, what's an internet message board really but an opinion board? I never would imply Bj or anyone else here is unamerican. Everyone's entitled to their thoughts, opinions, etc. And that kinda proves my earlier point that America (and BJ, to his credit, touched on this in a previous post) is the best country in the world for not only the opportunities it provides for those willing to educate themselves, work hard and build up a future or a retirement, but we can say, think or do just about anything we want to, and that includes criticising our government without fear of disappearing in the middle of the night and being shipped to the gulag or executed. And I hate to say it, right or wrong, that it is our financial compassion and our military might that in large part provides us these liberties and helps keep us in the position we are in. The video I posted that spawned all this nonsense was homemade by a bunch of marines that really don't have a choice in their destination or wars they have to fight once they sign up for service. I only take offence to the implication that serving your country by being a soldier is anything less than a noble venture. I did it, so did my Dad and both his brothers, three of my cousins, many friends, both grandpas...it's "in our blood", you could say. And I will vehemently defend our and this country's honor in that regard if it kills me. Instead of blaming the soldier, blame the policy if you wish. But don't demean a bunch of highly-trained, highly motivated killers having a little fun making a tape of their sorry situation. they HAVE to kill! It is their JOB! Somebody has to do it! As long as the "rules" are maintained with honor and integrity. Don't sit back while enjoying the freedoms our military provides and then do nothing but bitch about the manner in which it is provided... And furthermore, to finish, I'm tired of people bringing up our past social ills to try to demean America, like the plight of the American Indian, blacks, etc. While it was surely wrong, regrettable and distasteful, not only is there nothing us current generations of Americans can do about it but learn by not repeating those mistakes, but...admit reality and realize that EVERY OTHER COUNTRY on this planet has had these VERY SAME issues...and most haven't even progressed to our level! Chew on that.[/quote] I have David Pollack in my sig. Recognize! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 [quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='221553' date='Feb 22 2006, 07:50 PM'][quote]Swastika= white supremisist peice of shit[/quote] [img]http://www.jainworld.org/general/prem/Clip%20Art%20for%20Education/images/SWASTIK.jpg[/img] But originally a 5,000 year old Hindu symbol meaning "let good prevail" and "prayer" Talk about totally changing the context of an image. [/quote] I amy be wrong and Mully might know but I think when the symbol was taken by Hitler it was reversed. Like in a mirror....you know the opposite of good...evil. They were all over the temples in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 swastikas were also use in early scandinavia, most noticeably in scandinavian mythology... a class i failed misserably, to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBZ Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 First, I'll address Oldschooler way back, because he picked up on my 'This is what hate is' rant. Hate is a pretty strong word...And I was trying to use my feelings to put BJ's stance in perspective. I thought he was getting a raw deal at that time in the discussion, and so I wanted to take the heat off of him. (Not that he needs my help) In doing so, I 'outed' myself for a lot of contempt that I never wanted to show here; partly because I didn't want to piss of the membership...But also because I think that contempt isn't a useful expression of ideas. (It just comes out sometimes...) That having been said, I wouldn't rank my feelings as hate...I don't want to see anyone killed or injured, nor do I want to see anyone lose their job or their freedoms. I simply have moments of 'Rage against the Machine', and I was putting my confession out there to try to clarify BJ's stance vs. the concept of 'Unamerican'. Obviously...I am Unamerican. [quote name='BlackJesus' post='221328' date='Feb 22 2006, 11:17 AM'][color="#3366FF"]As for BZ [/color] ..... I understand many of the things you are saying ..... and admire your honesty with which you state them ...... too many times in our current climate people fear speaking how the feel ..... as for rooting for the insurgents ..... to me it is a little bit more nuanced than that and depends on the situation .... Many of the insurgent groups I hate ..... the bastard sunnis in iraq will get no support of mine because I realize also that they were the ones who propped up Saddam while he killed Kurds and Shia at will ....[/quote] You are right about the nuance, and I was greatly over-simplifying things. There is a ton of gray morality there, but I would speak more to supporting those who believe they are combatting an occupation. It is what I would do if I was in their place, and I shouldn't have to ask most people here what they would do if their country was occupied by an army who was trying to convince you that you were better off with them controlling your every move. [quote name='Nati Ice' post='221403' date='Feb 22 2006, 01:37 PM']BZ - it sounds as though you have major issues with capitalism... and obviously a deep resentment towards America, but the problems I’m beginning to see in your argument all revolve around the fact that you are a self-loathing capitalist in sheep’s wool... Go ahead and bash the US, because for the most part I agree with you. Just don’t be surprised when you find out the objections you so openly display have come true... only to reach back to give you a nice smack on the face. You go ahead and call America the most selfish nation in the world... because that may be rightfully so, but don’t you dare confuse security and capitalism with selfishness. Its easy to be an armchair quarterback... hell, that’s all I am anymore, but our real life and your philosophical views are in direct conflict. America is fat, but there is still widespread poverty and unemployment in our homeland. Yet, somehow, the good old U. S. of Mother Fucking A. still donates more money to foreign charities than the rest of the world COMBINED. Sure, it is in part because of our strong economy, but proportionally, we still donate FAR more money, time, and workers, than most developed nations. Yea, were bullies, but were bullies so that we can survive. Do I believe in Dubya, or his imperialist agenda? Hell no, but do I believe many of the practices we’ve put into place are necessary? You have better believe it.[/quote] You are probably right to point some of that out....I don't know about self-loathing as much as conflicted, and probably even somewhat bitter at times over some of the choices I have made. When I was of a University age, I drew on hefty student loans and went to one of the more 'privileged 'schools in Canada. There, I found myself surrounded by a majority of people who were shepherded through private schools, never had to work or pay back anything, and yet were being fast-tracked to white collar jobs because of Mommy and Daddy's class status. This never sat well with me then, and even less now after I spent 8 years paying off loans just to get where these people started directly after graduation. The feelings are further compounded by the amount of young people I have met in the last few years (through tutoring) that the slimmest of chances to even get the level of schooling that I did, and my wife works full-time with troubled kids, of whom 95% come from homes below the poverty level. At the conclusion of my degree, I was forced to make a tough decision to turn down law school or a Masters Degree, because my system-related angst was overflowing. So I moved out west and spent 3 years doing blue-collar work (assembly line, warehousing, driving a forklift) to make sure that I wasn't scared of physical labour after 4 years in a preppy U. That's where I met my wife, and where things definitely get complicated if you are a 'wannabe' socialist. I find that she not so keen on never owning a house or car; although we're pretty much on the same page with volunteering and keeping our luxuries down to a minimum. I have a very average-paying job as (ironically) a purchasing agent for a luxury cruise ship (*cough*), but what the hell...Retired people deserve a trip, and my job gives me 4 months off in the winter to work on writing, which is all I have ever really wanted to do...But writing doesn't pay the rent until you sell a book or two. [i](You can see what I'm working on via my Profile...It is a SF setting that was originally created to critique the current trend torwards global corporatization...But ended up having an accompanying criticism of regulatory and government controls as well. Talk about wanting it both ways...Apparently, I want it neither way. )[/i] We now have an 18 month old son, and it is tough because I have little desire to withhold luxuries or experiences from him. I would love to set up my family in a new house, but because I specifically took a working class route (taking longer to pay off my loans), it will take a lot longer than I would like to give them the home they deserve. So there is your conflict...and the case of me probably getting smacked in the face by what I thought were moral decisions, as far as work, etc...And even now I am trying to build my own company (to publish the book), doing branding, advertising, and selling...If I am successful, I wonder if I'm not just 20 years away from being one of those parents who just pays their son or daughter through school and sets them down a privileged path....What delicious irony that would be. With regard to America as a source of charity...I believe that exists. I believe that there are a lot of giving people there, and that the capacity to do good is very large. I also believe a nation has every right to security, and to defend itself when necessary. I just have trouble believing that cake-walking over Iraq (as Joker alluded to) bears any resemblance to self-defense. [quote]Man I had no idea this thread exploded. BZ causing the ruckus from the shores of Lake Ontario![/quote] I hate when I do that...This is why I only post in this section once every couple of months. Then I have to lay low for awhile. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henrys Dealer Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 The parallels between the perversion of a religious symbol by Hitler and the Nazi's, and the bastardization of our beloved chant by the Pissburgh Steelers is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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