Lawman Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote]a occupied territiory of gaza[/quote] [i]To my knowledge, the Israeli's have evacuated Gaza. Meaning it is no longer occupied[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote]I had a hard time taking it in as I wanted to keep bias out of it.[/quote] [i]The information provided could of easly been validated and any bias connotation identified and removed.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532523' date='Aug 23 2007, 06:42 PM'][i]Woud you dismiss the site [/i] [i]There is alot of information that they present that can be readily researched for accuracy.[/i] [i]Now, before we head down the path of distraction from the original thread; I caught CNN's with Christine Amanpour "Gods Warriors". There was a name she brought up [/i][url="http://www.cfr.org/publication/9178/"]Kahane[/url]. [i]I think the actions of this group is what some use to represent and broadbrush as the whole Israeli positon.[/i][/quote] Let me ask this then. Would you dismiss this? [url="http://mondediplo.com/2003/11/04apartheid"]http://mondediplo.com/2003/11/04apartheid[/url] Here are her credientials. [url="http://www.pol-sci.umb.edu/faculty/farsakh.html"]http://www.pol-sci.umb.edu/faculty/farsakh.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532525' date='Aug 23 2007, 06:44 PM'][i]To my knowledge, the Israeli's have evacuated Gaza. Meaning it is no longer occupied[/i] [/quote] I could have sworn that I saw a piece saying that they moved their tanks back into the area after this recent scirmish(sp?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Also was Tutu wrong about the suffering that goes on there? Or was he simply misguided at best and antisemetic at worst? And if so does that make the International Commitee Of The Red Cross misguided or antisemetic when they say this.. [url="http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList4/F06BB484D900B227C1256E3E00324D96"]Israel/Occupied and Autonomous Palestinian Territories: West Bank Barrier causes serious humanitarian and legal problems[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I don't know how much more I can take on this particular topic. I believe that God will return to Earth someday, but to try to predicate such an arrival by the actions of men is ludicrous. There is no presuming to know the Mind Of God. Certainly a loving God has plans for the emancipation of all oppressed peoples, even those that are "enslaved" at the hands of "His Chosen People".. I am of a mind that if everything over in the Middle East is progressing according to some divine plan (and that's what I have to believe), that nothing i say or do can possibly alter that course. Unfortunately, that course is going to be the cause of a LOT more violence and bloodshed before anything gets better. As more and more violated souls cry out to God, surely at some point he will act. And probably in a way that cannot possibly be predicted by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='532541' date='Aug 23 2007, 07:06 PM']I don't know how much more I can take on this particular topic. I believe that God will return to Earth someday, but to try to predicate such an arrival by the actions of men is ludicrous. There is no presuming to know the Mind Of God. Certainly a loving God has plans for the emancipation of all oppressed peoples, even those that are "enslaved" at the hands of "His Chosen People".. I am of a mind that if everything over in the Middle East is progressing according to some divine plan (and that's what I have to believe), [color="#FF0000"]that nothing i say or do can possibly alter that course.[/color] Unfortunately, that course is going to be the cause of a LOT more violence and bloodshed before anything gets better. As more and more violated souls cry out to God, surely at some point he will act. And probably in a way that cannot possibly be predicted by man.[/quote] or speed it up, like some are attempting to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='532533' date='Aug 23 2007, 06:54 PM']Also was Tutu wrong about the suffering that goes on there? Or was he simply misguided at best and antisemetic at worst? And if so does that make the International Commitee Of The Red Cross misguided or antisemetic when they say this.. [url="http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList4/F06BB484D900B227C1256E3E00324D96"]Israel/Occupied and Autonomous Palestinian Territories: West Bank Barrier causes serious humanitarian and legal problems[/url][/quote] Jamie_B, [i]I am not try to be curt here but think about it this way; if so many Arab countries are concerned with the Palestinian plight, why do they not invite them into their respective countries?[/i] [i]read this:[/i] [url="http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_refugees_arabs_what.php"]http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independe..._arabs_what.php[/url] [url="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/21_Refugees.html"]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...1_Refugees.html[/url] [i]then this:[/i] [url="http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catId=48&type=ind"]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDe...48&type=ind[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 What exactly are you saying here? That the plight is propaganda and that tutu is wrong?? Explain the statments of international orginizations that say otherwise then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532571' date='Aug 23 2007, 05:34 PM']Jamie_B, [i]I am not try to be curt here but think about it this way; if so many Arab countries are concerned with the Palestinian plight, why do they not invite them into their respective countries?[/i] [i]read this:[/i] [url="http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_refugees_arabs_what.php"]http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independe..._arabs_what.php[/url] [url="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/21_Refugees.html"]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...1_Refugees.html[/url] [i]then this:[/i] [url="http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catId=48&type=ind"]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDe...48&type=ind[/url][/quote] I have often thought that....many Arab countries hostile to the USA and Israel use the Paelstinian issue as a way to sway public opinion....yet they do little or nothing to help them out, take them in, give them a home, etc. Most of them would rather pay a suicide bomber's family money for carrying out nefarious acts rather than be part of the solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='532578' date='Aug 23 2007, 07:48 PM']I have often thought that....many Arab countries hostile to the USA and Israel use the Paelstinian issue as a way to sway public opinion....yet they do little or nothing to help them out, take them in, give them a home, etc. Most of them would rather pay a suicide bomber's family money for carrying out nefarious acts rather than be part of the solution...[/quote] Of course, because both sides are using this situation to have a war by proxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532571' date='Aug 23 2007, 09:04 PM']Jamie_B, [i]I am not try to be curt here but think about it this way; if so many Arab countries are concerned with the Palestinian plight, why do they not invite them into their respective countries?[/i] [i]read this:[/i] [url="http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_refugees_arabs_what.php"]http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independe..._arabs_what.php[/url] [url="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/21_Refugees.html"]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...1_Refugees.html[/url] [i]then this:[/i] [url="http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catId=48&type=ind"]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDe...48&type=ind[/url][/quote] What kind of bullshit is that? If they cared more about the Palestinians, they would invite them into their respective countries.....pfffft! Now, it is no doubt that the leaders of the Arab countries are cowards and corrupted pieces of crap, and even though many of the people of these countries cry out for the Palestinians, they are not REALLY doing anything about it....obviously.......but to say that they should invite them into their own countries??? Utter bullshit.........that is THEIR homeland and they shouldn't have to vacate it. Now, back to the topic and the questions Jaime posed............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 [quote name='IKOTA' post='532584' date='Aug 23 2007, 05:51 PM']What kind of bullshit is that? If they cared more about the Palestinians, they would invite them into their respective countries.....pfffft! Now, it is no doubt that the leaders of the Arab countries are cowards and corrupted pieces of crap, and even though many of the people of these countries cry out for the Palestinians, they are not REALLY doing anything about it....obviously.......but to say that they should invite them into their own countries??? Utter bullshit.........that is THEIR homeland and they shouldn't have to vacate it. Now, back to the topic and the questions Jaime posed............[/quote] But if they truly cared, wouldn't Islam dictate that they welcome a fellow Muslim into their home/country with open arms? ESPECIALLY in the face of the evil Jewish state? Just wondering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='Bunghole' post='532587' date='Aug 23 2007, 09:24 PM']But if they truly cared, wouldn't Islam dictate that they welcome a fellow Muslim into their home/country with open arms? ESPECIALLY in the face of the evil Jewish state? Just wondering...[/quote] Of course Islam dictates that, but that's besides the point. It's no secret that Muslims aren't acting the way they should at this time in history but again that's besides the point. You can't expect people to vacate their homes and their homeland. The better thing to do would be to ensure that the injustices don't happen and actually DO something about them if/when they do happen....and this goes the other way too....Islam dictates that you stop fellow Muslims from carrying out injustices also.......Help people in need and keep people from being oppressors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='IKOTA' post='532597' date='Aug 23 2007, 08:11 PM']Of course Islam dictates that, but that's besides the point. It's no secret that Muslims aren't acting the way they should at this time in history but again that's besides the point. You can't expect people to vacate their homes and their homeland. The better thing to do would be to ensure that the injustices don't happen and actually DO something about them if/when they do happen....and this goes the other way too....Islam dictates that you stop fellow Muslims from carrying out injustices also.......Help people in need and keep people from being oppressors.[/quote] [quote]It's no secret that Muslims aren't acting the way they should at this time in history but again that's besides the point.[/quote] [i]Why is that beside the point? It is the point, you just cannot admit it. When the Jews were forced to leave their homes in Arab countries; they did not recieve repatriation. However, when the palestinian's (which is a misnomer because that weren't called Palestians in 1947) so, the Arabs left their homes because of the outbreak of War, Israel repatriated them.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='IKOTA' post='532597' date='Aug 23 2007, 06:11 PM']Of course Islam dictates that, but that's besides the point. It's no secret that Muslims aren't acting the way they should at this time in history but again that's besides the point. You can't expect people to vacate their homes and their homeland. The better thing to do would be to ensure that the injustices don't happen and actually DO something about them if/when they do happen....and this goes the other way too....Islam dictates that you stop fellow Muslims from carrying out injustices also.......Help people in need and keep people from being oppressors.[/quote] So in other words, Jews, Christians and Muslims have all been found wanting in their treatment of their fellow man as prescribed by their respective texts? Geez, if Rodney King's plea could only be adhered to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote]Utter bullshit.........that is THEIR homeland and they shouldn't have to vacate it.[/quote] [i]When was Palestine ever a Nation? Of course the answer is never. But, I am not suggesting they leave their Homeland, I am saying theyare being played as pawns by other Arab countries as part of their proxy war with Israel. If outside force were to restrain from influence, their could be a two-state entity in the Palestine region ; whichwould in effect benefit the Palestinians. [/i] IT's NOT THE ISRAELI's THAT ARE THE OBSTRUCTIONIST IN THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROCESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532608' date='Aug 23 2007, 06:32 PM'][i]Why is that beside the point? It is the point, you just cannot admit it. When the Jews were forced to leave their homes in Arab countries; they did not recieve repatriation. However, when the palestinian's (which is a misnomer because that weren't called Palestians in 1947) so, the Arabs left their homes because of the outbreak of War, Israel repatriated them.[/i][/quote] Well, sort of...both sides are guilty of so much shit and terror tactics it's all anyone can do to stomach that, forgive it, move on and start with a clean slate and give a displaced people the land they rightly deserve. Israelis have a place to live...Palestinians do also, sort of... God would want us to arrange a solution that was fair an equitable to both sides...you know, "love thy neighbor" and all...even if that means Jews giving up a portion of their "Biblically inherited" land, so be it. I have come around to the opinion that Israeli Jews have used the Holocaust as an excuse for their existence long enough...and that as a wealthy, prosperous nation, they should share that wealth with their displaced neighbors. Kinda like the USA does, but that never gets any press.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532610' date='Aug 23 2007, 06:39 PM'][i]When was Palestine ever a Nation? Of course the answer is never. But, I am not suggesting they leave their Homeland, I am saying theyare being played as pawns by other Arab countries as part of their proxy war with Israel. If outside force were to restrain from influence, their could be a two-state entity in the Palestine region ; whichwould in effect benefit the Palestinians. [/i] [b]IT's NOT THE ISRAELI's THAT ARE THE OBSTRUCTIONIST IN THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROCESS[/b][/quote] That's just patently untrue. Neither side will give an inch of their respective scraps of religiously-important scraps of desert, and that is the truth. Part of the Israeli's reluctance is the fact that they would have to give equal access to religious sites that are holy to both religions. I realize that terrorism exists, i cannot help but wonder on what scale that terrorism would continue if Israel took the first step and "turned the other cheek" and allowed some access to holy sites without undue oppression....it is a commandment, after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 There was no palastine because they didnt have a flag!!!!!!1111111111111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532610' date='Aug 23 2007, 10:09 PM']IT's NOT THE ISRAELI's THAT ARE THE OBSTRUCTIONIST IN THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROCESS[/quote] You state this like its fact........ Both sides are at fault, you have to be pretty ignorant not to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='IKOTA' post='532630' date='Aug 23 2007, 09:08 PM']You state this like its fact........ Both sides are at fault, you have to be pretty ignorant not to understand that.[/quote] [i]Yes, It is Israels fault do to it's mere existence and it is not the Palestinians fault as implied; it is outside forces at work that keep this conflict boiling.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532608' date='Aug 23 2007, 10:02 PM'][i]Why is that beside the point? It is the point, [b]you just cannot admit it[/b]. When the Jews were forced to leave their homes in Arab countries; they did not recieve repatriation. However, when the palestinian's (which is a misnomer because that weren't called Palestians in 1947) so, the Arabs left their homes because of the outbreak of War, Israel repatriated them.[/i][/quote] Are you f'ing serious? I just DID admit it. That's the reason Muslims find themselves in the position they are in these days.....they have stopped following the prescribed way of life.......it's even written it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote name='Lawman' post='532634' date='Aug 23 2007, 10:44 PM'][i]Yes, It is Israels fault do to it's mere existence and it is not the Palestinians fault as implied; it is outside forces at work that keep this conflict boiling.[/i][/quote] Thats a given in any conflict...outside forces.....intelligence agenies etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 [quote]That's just patently untrue. [b]Neither side will give an inch of their respective scraps of religiously-important scraps of desert, and that is the truth.[/b]Part of the Israeli's reluctance is the fact that they would have to give equal access to religious sites that are holy to both religions.[/quote] [i]No Bung, it is deeper than that on several levels and yes I will agree with you that religonis one of them. The other is political.[/i] [i]The Muslim Waqf has responsibility for the mosques on the [url="http://www.templemount.org/"]Temple Mount[/url].[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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