Chad: 'Hurtful year'

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Gonzoid' post='614693' date='Dec 28 2007, 11:30 AM']Actually, no. Digital cable companies do track ratings but it's for internal use only. They cannot sell that data to the Bengals or anyone. They could at one time but that was back in the mid-80s.

The only ratings information that can be used is measured by Nielsen. Those are tracked via a written diary or a device attached to every TV in a Nielsen family's house. That data is gained voluntarily, meaning, the Nielsen Company has to contact you and ask you to join in and you have to agree to allow them in. Then your household becomes a "Nielsen family". And I'm not one of them.[/quote]


I seriously doubt you are correct.

[quote]The Cable Act authorizes HTC Digital Cable as a cable operator to disclose personal information concerning any subscriber for the following purposes if the disclosure is:

[b]Necessary to render or conduct a legitimate business activity related to the cable service or other services provided to the subscriber. [/b]Required by law or legal process.
Names and addresses of subscribers for "mailing list" or other purposes.
The Cable Act of 1992 prohibits HTC Digital Cable from disclosing personal information concerning subscriber for any purpose other than those listed above without the subscriber's prior written or electronic consent.

These kinds of disclosures typically involve billing and collections, administration, [b]surveys, marketing,[/b] service delivery and customization, maintenance and operations, and fraud prevention. [b]We may also collect, use and disclose information about you in non-personally identifiable or aggregate formats, such as ratings surveys and service usage and other statistical reports, which do not personally identify you, your particular viewing habits, or the nature of any transaction you have made over the cable system. [/b][/quote]


This is from a cable providers FAQ. It's someting Ifound with a quick web search.

The law you are referring to only prevents cable companies from providing or selling viewer statitistical data that reveals identities or other personal information. Using block viewing data that does not reveal private information is perfectly legal, and you can bet your ass that they do sell/provide that information.

[Gonzoid]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='614657' date='Dec 28 2007, 09:59 AM']Bill Cowher followed a Hall of Fame coach that had been the coach
for 23 years. Mike Tomlin follwed Cowher. It`s not like that Franchise
has had to install a new culture and try to rebuild anytime in the recent past.[/quote]
It's called consistency. They've been a consistently good team and you always build on a good foundation. I wish the Bengals had that. I wish there would have been only three coaches for the Bengals in my lifetime instead of nine.

[quote name='oldschooler' post='614657' date='Dec 28 2007, 09:59 AM']I also notice that you went out of your way to make sure you called
them the Steelers and not the Stealers. Don`t worry, that word filter
isn`t there anymore for that. You come off more as a Steelers fan
than a Bengals fan. I mean, you`ve said more nice things about
them, even in this thread, than I have ever seen you say about the Bengals.[/quote]
Yah, I go out of my way because it was an incredibly stupid, petty and infantile thing to do. And just because I don't stoop down to your level doesn't mean I love the Steelers. Heck, I envy them and their fans. I wish our team could have that sort of ferocity and, yes, excellence. Five Super Bowl titles is more impressive than two Super Bowl appearances.

[quote name='oldschooler' post='614657' date='Dec 28 2007, 09:59 AM']Oh and I haven`t checked the stats lately, but Chad was leading
the NFL in 1st downs for WRs, just a few weeks ago, and hasn`t
been showboating much at all this season . . .[/quote]
Because he hasn't been many any touchdown catches. Sorry, but everything I need to know about Chad Johnson and Chris Henry, I learned during the Arizona Cardinals game.

[Gonzoid]

[quote name='Lucid' post='614697' date='Dec 28 2007, 11:37 AM']The law you are referring to only prevents cable companies from providing or selling viewer statitistical data that reveals identities or other personal information. Using block viewing data that does not reveal private information is perfectly legal, and you can bet your ass that they do sell/provide that information.[/quote]
That data is not used in the same ways that Nielsen uses their data. The ratings you're talking about are used by cable companies to get local businesses to buy airtime (commercials). They can't sell that information to outside organizations so those organizations can use it for their own purpose.

Anyway, how can the Bengals use it to get media deals done when they're already on a particular station? It's not up to the Bengals to sell airtime during the game, it's up to the broadcaster/network.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Gonzoid' post='614700' date='Dec 28 2007, 11:52 AM']You're misunderstanding. That data is not used in the same ways that Nielsen uses their data. The ratings you're talking about are used by cable companies to get local businesses to buy airtime (commercials). They can't sell that information to outside organizations.

Anyway, how can the Bengals use it to get media deals done when they're already on a particular station? It's not up to the Bengals to sell airtime during the game, it's up to the broadcaster/network.[/quote]

DING!!DING!!DING!!

The more money the programming slot earns the better. I never said digital cable ratings counted in Neilson ratings. And what I quoted seems to contradict what you keep saying about not being able to sell it.

[quote]We may also collect, [b]use and disclose information about you in non-personally identifiable or aggregate formats, such as ratings surveys and service usage and other statistical reports[/b], which do not personally identify you, your particular viewing habits, or the nature of any transaction you have made over the cable system.[/quote]

The key phrase here being "use and [b]DISCLOSE[/b]".. Use implies internal use. Disclosing means giving that information to 3rd parties.. Whatever transaction which occurs to make this happen is up to the parties involved.

You are going to have to show me something which contradicts this since this particular cable company is telling their customers otherwise.. As does Time Warner if you read the fine print on thier service agreement.

[Gonzoid]

[quote name='Lucid' post='614704' date='Dec 28 2007, 11:59 AM']The more money the programming slot earns the better. I never said digital cable ratings counted in Neilson ratings. And what I quoted seems to contradict what you keep saying about not being able to sell it.[/quote]
Cable Company X cannot sell viewer information to Company Y so that Company Y can use it to broker media deals for themselves.

[quote name='Lucid' post='614704' date='Dec 28 2007, 11:59 AM']The key phrase here being "use and [b]DISCLOSE[/b]".. Use implies internal use. Disclosing means giving that information to 3rd parties.. Whatever transaction which occurs to make this happen is up to the parties involved.[/quote]
The third parties referred to are cable networks, not professional sports organizations. The 1992 act you're referring too was passed to help cut down the monopolizing of cable companies.

The data that cable companies collect is also used to fine tune their channel lineups and VOD services as well as for their local cable advertising.

Me watching the Bengals on WKRC through cable is not measured or metered or tracked in any way unless I am a Nielsen subscriber. Me watching does not boost the ratings for WKRC, the Bengals or the NFL.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Gonzoid' post='614747' date='Dec 28 2007, 01:18 PM']Cable Company X cannot sell viewer information to Company Y so that Company Y can use it to broker media deals for themselves.


The third parties referred to are cable networks for negotiating purposes, not professional sports organizations. The 1992 act you're referring too was passed to help cut down the monopolizing of cable companies.

The data that cable companies collect is also used to fine tune their channel lineups and VOD services as well as for their local cable advertising.

Me watching the Bengals on WKRC through cable is not measured or metered or tracked in any way unless I am a Nielsen subscriber. Me watching does not boost the ratings for WKRC, the Bengals or the NFL.[/quote]

Ok, you're not very convincing since I am reading official sources that contradict you, and all you offer is your opinion.

[Gonzoid]

[quote name='Lucid' post='614748' date='Dec 28 2007, 01:21 PM']Ok, you're not very convincing since I am reading official sources that contradict you, and all you offer is your opinion.[/quote]
Then share your official sources.

[BengalsOwn]

[quote name='Lucid' post='614748' date='Dec 28 2007, 01:21 PM']Ok, you're not very convincing since I am reading official sources that contradict you, and all you offer is your opinion.[/quote]

[url="http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.43afce2fac27e890311ba0a347a062a0/?show=%2FFilters%2FPublic%2Ftop_tv_ratings%2Fcable_tv&vgnextoid=9e4df9669fa14010VgnVCM100000880a260aRCRD"]http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site...000880a260aRCRD[/url]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img]

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='614753' date='Dec 28 2007, 01:33 PM'][url="http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.43afce2fac27e890311ba0a347a062a0/?show=%2FFilters%2FPublic%2Ftop_tv_ratings%2Fcable_tv&vgnextoid=9e4df9669fa14010VgnVCM100000880a260aRCRD"]http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site...000880a260aRCRD[/url]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img][/quote]

I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is, but I never suggested that the Nielson ratings were in any way influenced by cable viewing data. In actuality, I stated the opposite.

The matter being argued is whether cable companies compile anonymous statistical data which they can sell to 3rd parites. My argument is that they can and do.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='614753' date='Dec 28 2007, 01:33 PM'][url="http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.43afce2fac27e890311ba0a347a062a0/?show=%2FFilters%2FPublic%2Ftop_tv_ratings%2Fcable_tv&vgnextoid=9e4df9669fa14010VgnVCM100000880a260aRCRD"]http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site...000880a260aRCRD[/url]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//39.gif[/img][/quote]


interesting, so in a revenue sharing leauge the #1 thing watched on tv ends up lining the pockets of mike brown anyway... Damn all those Bears/Vikings fans.


So where ya watching the game on sunday?

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Knucklehead' post='614643' date='Dec 28 2007, 08:54 AM']That being said, it is frustrating to come here. To constantly read the bashing posts. I might as well go to the Stealer board for that. It's okay to vent during the game or after a loss, but the constant whining (IMO) drags this board down. I'm tired of reading Olds posts having to defend this team.[/quote]


It's like being in a room with a bunch of PMSing women. (no offense to the wonderful ladies we have on the board) Or maybe a better analogy would be a room full of screaming, whining, foot stomping preschoolers who haven't had their nap.

There are a handful of posters here who I wish would do us all a favor and either find a new team, a new board to carry on their constant bitch fest, or try to stop being such miserable fucks. You know who you are.

I realize we've had a suck ass season and people are frustrated. It does suck though to come to your favorite board of the team you root for and see the constant bashing, worse than your most hated rivals would bash you.

As a mod team though, what do you do? We don't want to ban people for venting, but we don't want the board to be ruined by people who seemingly hate everything about the team and never see a positive side to anything. I think everyone who posts here wants the Bengals to win, but some seem to want it to be a place where they can take out their frustrations, rather than kicking their dog or beating their wife.

Losing sucks for all of us, whether you're a homer or a basher. The constant bashing just gets old though in my opinion.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='614784' date='Dec 28 2007, 03:20 PM']It's like being in a room with a bunch of PMSing women. (no offense to the wonderful ladies we have on the board) Or maybe a better analogy would be a room full of screaming, whining, foot stomping preschoolers who haven't had their nap.

There are a handful of posters here who I wish would do us all a favor and either find a new team, a new board to carry on their constant bitch fest, or try to stop being such miserable fucks. You know who you are.

I realize we've had a suck ass season and people are frustrated. It does suck though to come to your favorite board of the team you root for and see the constant bashing, worse than your most hated rivals would bash you.

As a mod team though, what do you do? We don't want to ban people for venting, but we don't want the board to be ruined by people who seemingly hate everything about the team and never see a positive side to anything. I think everyone who posts here wants the Bengals to win, but some seem to want it to be a place where they can take out their frustrations, rather than kicking their dog or beating their wife.

Losing sucks for all of us, whether you're a homer or a basher. The constant bashing just gets old though in my opinion.[/quote]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='614784' date='Dec 28 2007, 03:20 PM']It's like being in a room with a bunch of PMSing women. (no offense to the wonderful ladies we have on the board) Or maybe a better analogy would be a room full of screaming, whining, foot stomping preschoolers who haven't had their nap.

There are a handful of posters here who I wish would do us all a favor and either find a new team, a new board to carry on their constant bitch fest, or try to stop being such miserable fucks. You know who you are.

I realize we've had a suck ass season and people are frustrated. It does suck though to come to your favorite board of the team you root for and see the constant bashing, worse than your most hated rivals would bash you.

As a mod team though, what do you do? We don't want to ban people for venting, but [color="#FF0000"]we don't want the board to be ruined by people who seemingly hate everything about the team and never see a positive side to anything[/color]. I think everyone who posts here wants the Bengals to win, but some seem to want it to be a place where they can take out their frustrations, rather than kicking their dog or beating their wife.

Losing sucks for all of us, whether you're a homer or a basher. The constant bashing just gets old though in my opinion.[/quote]


been a concern of mine for a while

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

Careful what you wish for.

You may get the big circle jerk you seem to crave for this site.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='LudwigVan Kubrick' post='614802' date='Dec 28 2007, 03:48 PM']Careful what you wish for.

You may get the big circle jerk you seem to crave for this site.[/quote]


Really?

Because before you (and others) showed up, we used to have serious football conversations. Lots of disagreement.. But plenty of laughs and good discussions.

If you ask me the circle jerk is the bash-fest and subsequent arguments that insue.

At least it [i]seems[/i] as pointless and repetitive as wanking off.

[Phatcat]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='614797' date='Dec 28 2007, 04:36 PM']been a concern of mine for a while[/quote]


Mine as well.

It will be a long off season if we don't come to some kind of truce among our "half glass empty" vs. our "half glass full" contingent.

I'm a relative newbee to the message board scene, but I have visted every Bengal board I could find to know this is the best site on the web to discuss Bengals football. How do we keep it that way?

Obviously all opinions are welcome (I assume Go would agree), but there is also a fine line that both groups cross at times. The utopian way is that people realize when they are constantly beating and beating and beating a dead horse and move on to other points of discussion. The Mike Brown sucks crowd will infest threads with that opinion, no matter what it is. The homers feel a need to combat the Mike Brown Sucks crowd to try to show them why it isn't that bad and things are better. Both sides can present facts to support their opinion, it is more of a mind set and diversity among all of us that differentiates how we view the same set of facts.

Both sides are trying to tell the other side why they are wrong. I know this is the basic concept of a message board - to share thoughts and debate. But going on adnausem as to why the other side is wrong is what becomes tiresome for me personally. Not the fact I don't agree with them, but the 5 page debate with each side trying to convince, demean, and insult the other side.

I really hope we can table this specific conflict and just discuss the team we all love and learn to agree to disagree before it hits the 3rd page.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Phatcat' post='614806' date='Dec 28 2007, 03:58 PM']Mine as well.

It will be a long off season if we don't come to some kind of truce among our "half glass empty" vs. our "half glass full" contingent.

I'm a relative newbee to the message board scene, but I have visted every Bengal board I could find to know this is the best site on the web to discuss Bengals football. How do we keep it that way?

Obviously all opinions are welcome (I assume Go would agree), but there is also a fine line that both groups cross at times. The utopian way is that people realize when they are constantly beating and beating and beating a dead horse and move on to other points of discussion. The Mike Brown sucks crowd will infest threads with that opinion, no matter what it is. The homers feel a need to combat the Mike Brown Sucks crowd to try to show them why it isn't that bad and things are better.

Both sides are trying to tell the other side why they are wrong. I know this is the basic concept of a message board - to share thoughts and debate. But going on adnausem as to why the other side is wrong is what becomes tiresome for me personally. Not the fact I don't agree with them, but the 5 page debate with each side trying to convince, demean, and insult the other side.

I really hope we can table this specific conflict and just discuss the team we all love and learn to agree to disagree before it hits the 3rd page.[/quote]


Yeah Im not really sure how the best way to resolve it is, ive been racking my brain for a while on this specific thing, im not sure what if anything can be done.

[Rick]

This is an interesting evolution to watch. The evolution of the board, the people and ideas. Over time, this board and the members will change in many ways.

I'm here every day of the week.

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='614807' date='Dec 28 2007, 04:04 PM']Yeah Im not really sure how the best way to resolve it is, ive been racking my brain for a while on this specific thing, im not sure what if anything can be done.[/quote]


Fact is, whether you like it or not, the biggest complainers about a 5 page thread they don't like, are the ones who read every page and keep coming back to it.

The solution you seek jamie, is already here. Its called the ignore feature. Problem is, people from both sides of the coin would rather bitch and moan than actually use it.

So you get people like oldschooler, saying all I do is say bad shit about the Bengals, when a quick search proves otherwise. And you get people like me who say oldschooler is up Mike Brown's ass like there is no tomorrow, when clearly this isn't the case either.

You speak of beating a dead horse. But for every bash of Mike Brown here, so too is there the "we were a playoff team before all the injuries, which player will make pro bowl first Odell or Pollack," etc etc.

That dead horse gets beaten on both sides of the orange glasses, make no mistake.

Look, I understand the premise of being a homer. Part of me admires it and wishes I could do so. But the more you analyze this team, the more you see that there is simply not a foundation in place that is conducive to winning. The Bengals could still be successful, as long as all their cards line up right. But anything more than a stiff wind, and this team topples like a cheap deck of cards. Or a straw house.

The Bengals are in my blood, as they are in many of yours. But just because I am a fan, doesn't mean I have to close my eyes to the glaring issues with this franchise.

I believe many threads that go back and forth between traditional die hards and fedups are the bread and butter of this site. People say they hate them, yet they can't seem to stop clicking on them. Now consider the alternative. What many of you refer to as good football talk, is just 4 or 5 guys jerking each other off. Do a search. Its all there.

This franchise... I mean, my goodness! Normally I hold my tongue. But every so often, this week in particular, the orange flavored rationalizations are just too juicy to pass up.

Rudi not the problem
We didnt need Toe anyway
Mike Brown is a middle of the road NFL owner
Which impact player will we sign this offseason
Chad is a cancer
Fire Marvin Lewis

shit like this, I take the bait every time. Its a weakness, I know.

But spare me your fake ass outrage... you've probably already clicked on the next "fed-up" thread.

[|Lucid|]

First.. The ignore function is broken because you still read those peoples posts in other peoples replies.

Secondly what you claim is the "bread and butter" of this site is a fairly new occurance.. And I hate to break it to you.. But so are you. And this site was great, and doing LOTS of traffic LONG before you came along. In fact most of the reasons you and others are here is because the word was spreading about the "Best Bengals site on the net"

Try and pretend that your pompous ass and denigrating attitude are some how making this site tick all you want, but the fact of the matter is, you could leave tomorrow and few would miss you.

The fact is, this message board has been far more of a "circle jerk" since all the foul miserables arrived. And I am pretty sure anyone who was a part of it before would concur.

Keep pretending that before you got here it was just a bunch of homers cheerleading and "jerking each other off" all you like, but it's simply not true.

[CarsonDaMan]

[quote name='Lucid' post='614828' date='Dec 28 2007, 05:41 PM']First.. The ignore function is broken because you still read those peoples posts in other peoples replies.

Secondly what you claim is the "bread and butter" of this site is a fairly new occurance.. And I hate to break it to you.. But so are you. And this site was great, and doing LOTS of traffic LONG before you came along. In fact most of the reasons you and others are here is because the word was spreading about the "Best Bengals site on the net"

Try and pretend that your pompous ass and denigrating attitude are some how making this site tick all you want, but the fact of the matter is, you could leave tomorrow and few would miss you.

The fact is, this message board has been far more of a "circle jerk" since all the foul miserables arrived. And I am pretty sure anyone who was a part of it before would concur.

Keep pretending that before you got here it was just a bunch of homers cheerleading and "jerking each other off" all you like, but it's simply not true.[/quote]

It's very true.

Do you honestly think anyone would miss your kool aid opinion if you were to skip out of here tomorrow? The fact here is that you don't agree with other peoples opinions so you just assume they leave. What kind of garbage is that? Should this site be all blonde hair and blue eyed to you?

What brings people here is debate and conversation. No one is going to leave here because I bash something. Me not agreeing with someones opinion does in no way wish they were not here. That's in fact a childish, elitist, you can't play with my toys because i dont like what you say attitude.

No one forces you to read anything you don't want to. You can have your conversations and i can have mine. If you don't like what you see from me then don't respond to it. It is really that simple.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='CarsonDaMan' post='614843' date='Dec 28 2007, 06:09 PM']It's very true.

Do you honestly think anyone would miss your kool aid opinion if you were to skip out of here tomorrow? The fact here is that you don't agree with other peoples opinions so you just assume they leave. What kind of garbage is that? Should this site be all blonde hair and blue eyed to you?

What brings people here is debate and conversation. No one is going to leave here because I bash something. Me not agreeing with someones opinion does in no way wish they were not here. That's in fact a childish, elitist, you can't play with my toys because i dont like what you say attitude.

No one forces you to read anything you don't want to. You can have your conversations and i can have mine. If you don't like what you see from me then don't respond to it. It is really that simple.[/quote]

When did I ever indicate that I was in any way important to this board?

I was replying to someone who obviously does.. So why are you defending it? You feel like your contributiolns are the "bread and butter" of this site?

[CarsonDaMan]

[quote name='Lucid' post='614846' date='Dec 28 2007, 06:12 PM']When did I ever indicate that I was in any way important to this board?

I was replying to someone who obviously does.. So why are you defending it? You feel like your contributiolns are the "bread and butter" of this site?[/quote]

Am i the bread and butter? Not in the least bit. No one person here is.

But sitting here saying this place would be better off with certain people like me is exactly the attitude your trying to claim the so called "others" have.

Nobody is going to come here if they think they can't be part of your lil be happy and positive all the time club. A good majority of people don't want to hear that either.

I would say I respect everyones opinion around here. I can get frustrated and push buttons, but in the end i still respect what you say. But I'm never going to stoop to the level of saying people like you shouldn't be allowed here. That is just classless and juvenile to me.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='CarsonDaMan' post='614849' date='Dec 28 2007, 06:17 PM']Am i the bread and butter? Not in the least bit. No one person here is.

But sitting here saying this place would be better off with certain people like me is exactly the attitude your trying to claim the so called "others" have.

Nobody is going to come here if they think they can't be part of your lil be happy and positive all the time club. A good majority of people don't want to hear that either.

I would say I respect everyones opinion around here. I can get frustrated and push buttons, but in the end i still respect what you say. But I'm never going to stoop to the level of saying people like you shouldn't be allowed here. That is just classless and juvenile to me.[/quote]


When the fuck did I ever say anything of the sort?

Seriously, you need to learn to read.

[CarsonDaMan]

[quote]There are a handful of posters here who I wish would do us all a favor and either find a new team, a new board to carry on their constant bitch fest, or try to stop being such miserable fucks. You know who you are.[/quote]

That from Bengal Backer.

I took it from you and misquoted you. My apologies. But you and Jamie also agreed with it.