I want Darren Sproles!

[eva4ben-gal]

I've been wanting Sproles for awhile — and I think he'd make a good addition to the football team too

But seriously - the reasons a Sproles deal could/should happen:
We'll be dropping large salaries in Chris Perry and John Thornton (even if he resigns it will be at a much reduced price)
We might be dropping a huge salary in Ocho Cinco
TJ's odds of retuning aren't looking good (possible solution: tag and trade - would only work if Chargers really felt they needed another receiver and would be willing to do the same with Sproles - odds still not good)
Our O-line has shown promise and a speedy back that can cut on a dime is the perfect guy to have when running lanes are breaking down
He'd be a perfect 1-2 punch with Benson -like what Jax has done in their backfield
2010 might be uncapped so we can throw whatever money we wanted at him
Palmer would absolutely shred defenses with Sproles in the backfield; a 2005 version of Henry split wide and Caldwell in the slot (BTW if both Ocho and Housh leave I want a receiver no later than round 3 for insurance, Hakeem Nicks, Derrick Williams, Brian Robiskie or Mahamad Massoquoi would be nice if they fell to round 3, Pat White could be late round gamble if he sticks around, or a free agent like Shaun McDonald, Amani Toomer, Bobby Engram, Bryant Johnson, Devery Henderson or Nate Washington)

Reasons it won't happen:
The Chargers would be retarded to let him go
Some other team will outbid us


Guy I would want in the draft that could be a Sproles-type player:
Dexter McCluster, Mississippi, junior
Anybody that watched the Cotton Bowl knows how good he is and he's too small to be a wide receiver in the NFL at 5-8, 165, but pack a few pounds on him and he could be a Sproles/Jerious Norwood type player. He averaged 6 yards a run this season and led the Rebels in rushing yards per game. Plus he caught 44 passes for 625 yards with an average of 14 yds a catch. It doesn't look like he does kick returns but we have Caldwell to do that. Hopefully he declares early.

[cincity]

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='737490' date='Jan 4 2009, 05:13 PM']Sproles will get big time money somewhere.


James Johnson looked JUST fine for us that we have our complimentary back. We just need to resign Benson.[/quote]


I was thinking the same thing. Give him a lil more time in learning the playbook and assignments. He runs hard when he has the ball, good hands and seems like he has the speed to be a mismatch on LBs.

[eva4ben-gal]

Have everybody on this board suddenly turned into Mike Brown - I'm sure he thinks Johnson can put up Sproles numbers on the cheap too. Johnson is a poor man's Sproles (has the measurables but not the production) and if we continue to settle for poor man's players we get a poor man's football team. Just sayin.
The offensive line does not need a complete overhaul and shouldn't impact our signing impact players at other positions.

[Marvin]

i was fully expecting to sign on today and see the "we need sproles" thread, its one game. he is an exciting player but his season long numbers were pretty paltry. we can get someone in rounds 4-7 that fits the same mold at a percentage of the price. there are a multitude of more pressing needs in FA. but whatever.

[-GoBengals-]

he did almost nothing in the regular season... and fumbled 3 times lost 2. benson did quite a bit more than him only playing part of the year...

he wont be worth much money, the chargers should be able to keep him easily.. good compliment to LT...

[cwing]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='737564' date='Jan 4 2009, 07:54 PM']he did almost nothing in the regular season... and fumbled 3 times lost 2. benson did quite a bit more than him only playing part of the year...

he wont be worth much money, the chargers should be able to keep him easily.. good compliment to LT...[/quote]

61 = 330 yds.

Yes I would like to have him but only after other issues are addressed and I would not overpay.

[cwing]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737548' date='Jan 4 2009, 06:33 PM']Have everybody on this board suddenly turned into Mike Brown - I'm sure he thinks Johnson can put up Sproles numbers on the cheap too. Johnson is a poor man's Sproles (has the measurables but not the production) and if we continue to settle for poor man's players we get a poor man's football team. Just sayin.
The offensive line does not need a complete overhaul and shouldn't impact our signing impact players at other positions.[/quote]


Sounds like you are the one that is thinking like Mike Brown. Ignore the real issues and go and get some icing before you have the cake.


The reality is -------- this team was a pass rusher & run stuffer away from competing for a SB in 2005. It appears the run stopping part may have improved but they still have the worst pass rush in the league.

The offensive line has been declining since after the 2005 season. This has resulted in a declining offense that cannot run the ball effectively or protect the QB in the passing game. I guess your ok with this?

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='cwing' post='737559' date='Jan 4 2009, 07:45 PM']Not trying to insult you but if you do not beleive the oline is prioity #1 then you do not know football.[/quote]

You mean that offensive line that finally seemed to come together with a pair of 100-yard rushing games to close out the season, after struggling with a scheme change that didn't fit the personell. Yeah, no way at least a few of those guys can be good starters next year. We have a starting tackle on the roster in Collins - no reason he shouldn't be. All we need is a solid tackle in the draft or free agency and a starting-caliber center by the same means.
In no way do we absolutely have to spend two or three high draft picks on the line.
IMO most people on here seem to think if we draft a LT, RT and C then we'll be a playoff team in '09 but the o-line doesn't score touchdowns and anytime you can get a playmaker like Sproles that can score four different ways- including times when the O-line is not on the field - you do it.
Sproles overall numbers may not be the best, but I've watched several Chargers games and when he puts his hands on the ball you never know what could happen.
There are several ways to fix the o-line, and not all of them involve huge amounts of cash.
Priority No. 1 is making this team better and you have to focus on many areas to do that, if you don't know that ...

[cwing]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737546' date='Jan 4 2009, 06:27 PM'][size=6]Our O-line has shown promise [/size]

[size=6]I want a receiver no later than round 3 for insurance[/size],[/quote]


Not trying to insult you but if you do not beleive the oline is prioity #1 then you do not know football.

Levi is done. His knee, his ability to stay in the lineup and his performance has droped each of the last 3 seasons. No reason to beleive he will ever be the same. He is now a backup at best.

Collins has not yet locked up anything and gawd forbid if Mikey moves forward thinking he has. The guy played in a limited offense with no deep patterns and is now and has always been projected to replace an unsignable Andrews at RT. Yes, he shows pronmise but bring in bodies to compete and make him earn the job.

There is no center on the roster that is an upgrade over Guycheck and Guycheck is not getting it done. Enough said.

Andrews the starter at RT the last 2 season is unsigned and hurt. Even if brought back for cheap he is unlikely to be back to form until mid season, if at all.

Williams is an 8-9 yr guy and you better be looking to develop his replacment as he will not have many yrs left ---- of would you prefer they ignore the future and wait to address it when it costs us another season.

Whit is too slow for Lt, is an unknown for RT and his slow feet have hurt the running game as he cannot pull.

Livings also shows promise but under the same offensive scheme as Collins ------ that is not the offense we will play with a healthy CP.

Kooster has never pushed anyone.

Even if things go well and Collins becomes an all pro at one tackle ------- who is the other and who is the center? If you move Whit to RT or LT then who replaces him at LG?

Fix this mess and you do not need to spend big money on RB's -------- Reference Denver !!!

We drafted 3 wide receivers last season with at least Caldwell looking like he may be a force. Plus we have COC under contract who will again be healthy and with something to prove. We will again have Henry and he now appears to have gotten it. Considering his last issues were found to be bogus he has not had any incidents in 2 years. Chatman had performed very well prior to IR and a healthy Utech will be expected to be a big factor.

All this and you want draft wide receivers and go after RB's................

Please tell me you were just kidding.

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='cwing' post='737559' date='Jan 4 2009, 07:45 PM']We drafted 3 wide receivers last season with at least Caldwell looking like he may be a force. Plus we have COC under contract who will again be healthy and with something to prove. We will again have Henry and he now appears to have gotten it. Considering his last issues were found to be bogus he has not had any incidents in 2 years. Chatman had performed very well prior to IR and a healthy Utech will be expected to be a big factor.

All this and you want draft wide receivers and go after RB's................

Please tell me you were just kidding.[/quote]

Chatman? Please tell me you're kidding. He should be released immediately, can't stay on the field. Simpson has shown nothing and neither has Ocho. What makes you think we won't get another lackluster year from Ocho even if he is healthy. He's pulling a TO and will continue to play like a turd until he is traded.
We need another wide receiver in the draft or in free agency if both Housh and Ocho are gone, that's a fact.
O-line can be improved through the draft or free agency too, but we could sign an older center or tackle and then look in rounds 2-5 for an understudy. Williams is fine for a few more years. Whitworth is good where he's at. Andrews is a ? at best but Collins can play tackle, especially with another training camp under his belt.
The sky is not falling on the offensive line and we need to look for other ways to improve the team too.

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='cwing' post='737573' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:08 PM']Sounds like you are the one that is thinking like Mike Brown. Ignore the real issues and go and get some icing before you have the cake.


The reality is -------- this team was a pass rusher & run stuffer away from competing for a SB in 2005. It appears the run stopping part may have improved but they still have the worst pass rush in the league.

The offensive line has been declining since after the 2005 season. This has resulted in a declining offense that cannot run the ball effectively or protect the QB in the passing game. I guess your ok with this?[/quote]
I thought we were a healthy quarterback away from competing for a Super Bowl in '05

[eva4ben-gal]

Maybe a little clarification is needed for guys like cwing - when I said I wanted Sproles, that doesn't mean I don't think we should pursue free aganets in other areas too. Our cap room is ample and we should be a ble to sign at least a few guys. This is not a Sproles or Offensive lineman or linebacker situation, we could easily sign all three positions.
On the same note, if the Bengals focus only on lineman in free agency and don't land any of hte guys they go after, while ignoring other positions, they'll end up worse off coming out of the signing period than they went in.

Cwing- if you're going to quote me, use my entire sentence. Anything can be spun any which way when you pluck a few words from a complete thought.

[cwing]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737579' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:17 PM']Chatman? Please tell me you're kidding. He should be released immediately, can't stay on the field. Simpson has shown nothing and neither has Ocho. What makes you think we won't get another lackluster year from Ocho even if he is healthy. He's pulling a TO and will continue to play like a turd until he is traded.
We need another wide receiver in the draft or in free agency if both Housh and Ocho are gone, that's a fact.
O-line can be improved through the draft or free agency too, but we could sign an older center or tackle and then look in rounds 2-5 for an understudy. Williams is fine for a few more years. Whitworth is good where he's at. Andrews is a ? at best but Collins can play tackle, especially with another training camp under his belt.
The sky is not falling on the offensive line and we need to look for other ways to improve the team too.[/quote]

It is as simple as this;

Fix the oline and I do not give a rat's backside about who the wide outs or the running backs are. If Mikey will fix the oline so that they can protect Carson Palmer and run the ball they I can go out and get a bunch of average jouneyman and win with CP as my QB. Especailly if the defense continues to improve. The best example in teh world is NE. One great receiver last season and a bunch of jouneyman all the years they won the dance.

That said, Yes COC had a bad year but he also had a bad shoulder, a bad leg and an oline that could not protect the QB long enough to allow the QB to throw the ball downfield. Not to mention Fitz not being able to throw a deep ball accuritely. Therefore, it is very unlikely COC will be traded as the Bengals will want something big for him and no one will give it at this point. He needs to have his shoulder and leg fixed and prove himself again. As long as he can overcome his injuries, w/ a strong oline and a healthy CP --------- his trade value will increase after he returns to form, not before.

Chatman played very well prior to going down. Do I want him as a #1? NO. As a #2? Again no, but can play some 3 or 4. COC will be the #1 and Caldwell/Henry will fight it out for #2. Simpson will be in the rotation and Utech will be expected to produce as the Bengals beleive the reason he did not injury and QB protection. so again --------

If they resign Benson they will have Johnson whcih they like and Triple D will also be back. They will be looking for a new fullback and likely a FA or a late rounder to provide depth. If they do not resign Benson then who knows what will happen.


Again I say ------- FIX the OLINE and all will take care of itself.

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='cwing' post='737590' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:40 PM']Again I say ------- FIX the OLINE and all will take care of itself.[/quote]
I really think you are putting too much emphasis on the impact the o-line has. Yes it all starts up front, but even the "journeymen" New England had on their teams were better than what we have now. New England also had a core of very talented players that also were better than what we have now.
And Sproles would be like signing Welker, if both WR's leave we will have a very similar building model as the Patriots if our picks from last year all continue to improve.

[Jamie_B]

I would rather find a part time RB later in the draft. Save money and spend it on bigger needs.

And WR in the first 3?? Didnt we just do that last year 2xs?

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='737594' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:47 PM']I would rather find a part time RB later in the draft. Save money and spend it on bigger needs.

And WR in the first 3?? Didnt we just do that last year 2xs?[/quote]
If you read the entire sentence it says WR in the first three IF Ocho and Housh both are gone. And with waht we have that is proven on the roster, which is no starters, a third round pick on a WR would be wise.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737596' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:49 PM']If you read the entire sentence it says WR in the first three IF Ocho and Housh both are gone. And with waht we have that is proven on the roster, which is no starters, a third round pick on a WR would be wise.[/quote]


I really dont see BOTH gone, and wouldnt be supprised to see both stay. (by way of tagging TJ)

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='737600' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:54 PM']I really dont see BOTH gone, and wouldnt be supprised to see both stay. (by way of tagging TJ)[/quote]
We'll hopefully have that figured out by the draft though.

[Palmer4HOF]

There will be at least 3 darren sproles in this upcoming draft... the question is will we be able to find one?

Sproles was drafted round 4, pick 130 late as a kick returner specialist guy (btw, i always drafted him in Madden...)

Good RBs go pretty much every year round 4 or later, no need to spend big money to get a guy like that when we could just draft one ... hell we have one of the greatest OC's in the league, he surely knows how to scout a great RB late in the draft

2008:
- Slaton (round 3, pick 89)
- Choice (round 4, pick 122)
- Hightower (round 5, 149)

2007
- kolby smith (round 5, 148)
- bradshaw (round 7, 250)

2006
- norwood (round 3, 79)
- robinson (round 4, 100)
- washington (round 4, 117)

2005
- gore (round 3, 65)
- barber (round 4, 109)
- jacobs (round 4, 110)
- sprole (round 4, 130)

2004
- moore (round 4, 119)
- turner (round 5, 154)
- ward (round 7, 235)

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737546' date='Jan 4 2009, 06:27 PM']I've been wanting Sproles for awhile — and I think he'd make a good addition to the football team too

But seriously - the reasons a Sproles deal could/should happen:
We'll be dropping large salaries in Chris Perry and John Thornton (even if he resigns it will be at a much reduced price)
We might be dropping a huge salary in Ocho Cinco
TJ's odds of retuning aren't looking good (possible solution: tag and trade - would only work if Chargers really felt they needed another receiver and would be willing to do the same with Sproles - odds still not good)
Our O-line has shown promise and a speedy back that can cut on a dime is the perfect guy to have when running lanes are breaking down
He'd be a perfect 1-2 punch with Benson -like what Jax has done in their backfield
2010 might be uncapped so we can throw whatever money we wanted at him
Palmer would absolutely shred defenses with Sproles in the backfield; a 2005 version of Henry split wide and Caldwell in the slot (BTW if both Ocho and Housh leave I want a receiver no later than round 3 for insurance, Hakeem Nicks, Derrick Williams, Brian Robiskie or Mahamad Massoquoi would be nice if they fell to round 3, Pat White could be late round gamble if he sticks around, or a free agent like Shaun McDonald, Amani Toomer, Bobby Engram, Bryant Johnson, Devery Henderson or Nate Washington)

Reasons it won't happen:
The Chargers would be retarded to let him go
Some other team will outbid us


Guy I would want in the draft that could be a Sproles-type player:
Dexter McCluster, Mississippi, junior
Anybody that watched the Cotton Bowl knows how good he is and he's too small to be a wide receiver in the NFL at 5-8, 165, but pack a few pounds on him and he could be a Sproles/Jerious Norwood type player. He averaged 6 yards a run this season and led the Rebels in rushing yards per game. Plus he caught 44 passes for 625 yards with an average of 14 yds a catch. It doesn't look like he does kick returns but we have Caldwell to do that. Hopefully he declares early.[/quote]


I'm a huge McCluster fan and would love to see him in stripes, but I don't know if he can make it in the NFL with his size. He makes guys like Sproles, Ginn, and DeSean Jackson look big.

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='737604' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:55 PM']There will be at least 3 darren sproles in this upcoming draft... the question is will we be able to find one?

Sproles was drafted round 4, pick 130 late as a kick returner specialist guy (btw, i always drafted him in Madden...)

Good RBs go pretty much every year round 4 or later, no need to spend big money to get a guy like that when we could just draft one ... hell we have one of the greatest OC's in the league, he surely knows how to scout a great RB late in the draft

2008:
- Slaton (round 3, pick 89)
- Choice (round 4, pick 122)
- Hightower (round 5, 149)

2007
- kolby smith (round 5, 148)
- bradshaw (round 7, 250)

2006
- norwood (round 3, 79)
- robinson (round 4, 100)
- washington (round 4, 117)

2005
- gore (round 3, 65)
- barber (round 4, 109)
- jacobs (round 4, 110)
- sprole (round 4, 130)

2004
- moore (round 4, 119)
- turner (round 5, 154)
- ward (round 7, 235)[/quote]

And I suggested McCluster this year if he declares. I'm not saying we can't find a Sproles-type guy in the draft, but I would opt for a guy with a few years under his belt and some proven skill at the highest level over a draft pick if I had the choice.

[cwing]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737584' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:26 PM']Cwing- if you're going to quote me, use my entire sentence. Anything can be spun any which way when you pluck a few words from a complete thought.[/quote]

Not necessary in this case. I wanted to hit on those 2 key points and despite only being excerts from those they were very clear and the rest of your sentences did nothing to change your point.

For instance the first one regarding the oline ------- the rest of your sentence did not explain why the oline was coming around. It did go into how nice it would be for DS to be in the lineup. I agree that I would also like to pick him up as I would like to pick up every player possible and let them fight it out in camp. However, that is not going to happen.

Therefore, l disagree not with point of what he may be able to provide. I disagree with your assessment of the offensive line as i see far more questions than answers.

The 2nd sentence regarding the wide outs. You are merely giving examples of who you would like to pick. Again, I do not disagree. As i said above I would like to bring in a hundred guys and let them all fight it out. However, that is not how it works.

Therefore, the point I wanted to hit on was the need of using yet another draft pick on a wide receiver. Again, I say no way. Solve the oline issues and the persons they have will be good enough or they could go out and grab a stop gap guy on teh FA market when/if it proves to be necessary. Now if the let Tj go, trade COC and Henry gets in trouble again, obviusly then things may change.

The bottom line is ----------- they must do some things by signing FA's and they must do some by draft. Depending on who they draft may it will change who they sign as a FA and vice versa. Barring anything unforeseen ------------- nearly every signing by draft or FA should address the oline and the front 7 on defense.

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' post='737607' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:58 PM']And I suggested McCluster this year if he declares. I'm not saying we can't find a Sproles-type guy in the draft, but I would opt for a guy with a few years under his belt and some proven skill at the highest level over a draft pick if I had the choice.[/quote]

I like that pick... he'll be a guy who will be down on everyones draft boards due to "size"...

As long as he keeps getting up after hits, he'll find a spot on a NFL team as a return guy

(as a side note, he was a starter on my fantasy college football team this year so i got to watch a lot of his games... he's very fun to watch)

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='737606' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:57 PM']I'm a huge McCluster fan and would love to see him in stripes, but I don't know if he can make it in the NFL with his size. He makes guys like Sproles, Ginn, and DeSean Jackson look big.[/quote]
Chris Johnson - 5'11, 200
Darren Sproles - 5'6, 181
DeSean Jackson - 5'10, 175
Reggie Bush 6'0, 203
Brian Westbrook -5'10, 203
Barry Sanders - 5'8, 203


I think McCluster could find a role on an NFL team with a few more pounds of muscle on him.

[WhoDeeez]

[quote name='cwing' post='737590' date='Jan 4 2009, 09:40 PM']Again I say ------- FIX the OLINE and all will take care of itself.[/quote]
IMO... He's right, sorry guys. I completely agree with him. O-Line is THE major difference in Bengals offense.