|kennethmw| Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1306859702' post='995439'] Not convinced? I'm not only not convinced I'm sure we don't. Aren't you at this point? You're on crack. They're all the same dude. You say republicans - you can insert democrats into the same spot and it all reads the same. They didn't do shit for the first 2 years of his presidency either when repubs were minorities in both sides of Congress. Jack shit was done then... jack shit is done now. And... we're worse today than we were when he started, or even just this time last year, a whole 2 1/2 years after he started. This. This. Not at all. Just like legitimate jobs are not getting created no matter which party is in office. [b]You're crazy. Apparently, you watch a different version of NBC, CBS, ABC evening news than everyone else does. WE'RE WORSE NOW THAN WE WERE WHEN HE WAS ELECTED and that was after Bush had presided over this collapse for about 1 1/2 - 2 years, which means that we'd be 4-4 1/2 years into it right now. Don't be a sheep man. He doesn't give two shits about you or anybody else. [/quote][/b] You must have me confused with one of the morons. Obama has been able to get a lot accomplished, he has also compromised on some stuff, and he's failed at some stuff. But, there is NO WAY we are worse than when he was elected. And if there were ANY Grownups in the republican party, we'd be a lot further along. Here's what Politifact says. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/ I didn't expect superman, and we didn't get him. But the man has done about as much as one man could do, and I think he does give a shit about me and this country. Your Republican friends, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Take note that this is the cofounder of Reganomics saying this stuff. The important thing to note here is that the elite are trying to lower the wages the idea being that jobs will come back when wages are low enough to compete. Here is the problem were competing with China which is largely 3rd world. Second do you think they will lower debit? Hardly. You will be in what is effectively a debitors prison. We need to be doing the exact opposite of this wages need to go up for the middle class so they can participate in the economy again, the corporations that are offshoring shouldnt be rewarded for it, they should be TAXED for doing it. We have a system that effectively is allowing multi-national corporations to move your job outside the US because Chinese labor is cheap. In turn the shareholders are happy because it creates record profits for them but it does so at the expense of American jobs. This is why we have record corporate profits but continuing high unemployment. We are effectively eating our own and the things we need to be doing to stop it are the things that these idiots in tri-cornered hats prancing around because we have a black president (for some) or because he's a democrat (for most) (laughingly calling him Liberal) dont get it. And the sad part about that is they are the ones most effected by it while defending the people doing it to them. Then, and with all due respect to you kenneth, there are those democrats that are blind as well. People who still think Clinton was good while he was the one effectively setting up alot of the mess were in now, be it through deregulation of the banking system, or the opening of free trade with NAFTA and China. And anyone who thinks Obama is going to fix this is blind to the fact that the bankers are the ones who funded his campaign. That's EXACTLY why they arent getting arrested for this fraud, hell alot of it wasnt illegal because they deregulated it to not be illegal. Obama isnt going to stop that because he is holden to the people who got us in this mess. Say what you will about John Edwards, but he was right. We have two America's. One for the well to do's and one for everyone else. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/co-founder-reagonomics-paul-craig-roberts-there-probably-more-democracy-china-there-west [quote]Co-Founder Of Reaganomics, Paul Craig Roberts, "There Is Probably More Democracy In China Than There Is In The West" Paul Craig Roberts: "The west prides itself that it is the standard for the world, that it is a democracy. But nowehere do you see democratic outcomes: not in Greece, not in Ireland, not in the UK, not here, the outcomes are always to punish the innocent and reward the guilty. And that's what the Greeks are in the streets, protesting. We see this all over the west. There is no democracy, there are oligarchies, some of these smaller European countries are not even run by their own governments, they are run by Wall Street... There is probably more democracy in China than there is in the west. Revolution is the only answer... We are confronted with a curious situation. Throughout the west we think we have democracy, we hold ourselves up high, we demonize China, we talk about the mafia state of Russia, we talk about the Arabs and so on, but where is the democracy here?" [/quote] Part 1 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEPob3kQ-6g&feature=player_embedded[/media] Part 2 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX7M3w02Bfw&feature=player_embedded[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1306867601' post='995460'] Take note that this is the cofounder of Reganomics saying this stuff. The important thing to note here is that the elite are trying to lower the wages the idea being that jobs will come back when wages are low enough to compete. Here is the problem were competing with China which is largely 3rd world. Second do you think they will lower debit? Hardly. You will be in what is effectively a debitors prison. We need to be doing the exact opposite of this wages need to go up for the middle class so they can participate in the economy again, the corporations that are offshoring shouldnt be rewarded for it, they should be TAXED for doing it. We have a system that effectively is allowing multi-national corporations to move your job outside the US because Chinese labor is cheap. In turn the shareholders are happy because it creates record profits for them but it does so at the expense of American jobs. This is why we have record corporate profits but continuing high unemployment. We are effectively eating our own and the things we need to be doing to stop it are the things that these idiots in tri-cornered hats prancing around because we have a black president (for some) or because he's a democrat (for most) (laughingly calling him Liberal) dont get it. And the sad part about that is they are the ones most effected by it while defending the people doing it to them. [b]Then, and with all due respect to you kenneth, there are those democrats that are blind as well.[/b] People who still think Clinton was good while he was the one effectively setting up alot of the mess were in now, be it through deregulation of the banking system, or the opening of free trade with NAFTA and China. And anyone who thinks Obama is going to fix this is blind to the fact that the bankers are the ones who funded his campaign. That's EXACTLY why they arent getting arrested for this fraud, hell alot of it wasnt illegal because they deregulated it to not be illegal. Obama isnt going to stop that because he is holden to the people who got us in this mess. Say what you will about John Edwards, but he was right. We have two America's. One for the well to do's and one for everyone else. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/co-founder-reagonomics-paul-craig-roberts-there-probably-more-democracy-china-there-west Part 1 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEPob3kQ-6g&feature=player_embedded[/media] Part 2 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX7M3w02Bfw&feature=player_embedded[/media] [/quote] No offense taken. I realize that "the dumb" doesn't just rest in one party. My only concern is that the Right is currently applauding dumbness and doing everything they can to promote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1306872842' post='995474'] No offense taken. I realize that "the dumb" doesn't just rest in one party. My only concern is that the Right is currently applauding dumbness and doing everything they can to promote it. [/quote] What concerns me is that due to a lack of seriousness on their part there is no real "check" on those on our side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1306863976' post='995454'] I didn't expect superman, and we didn't get him. But the man has done about as much as one man could do, and I think he does give a shit about me and this country. [b]Your Republican friends[/b], not so much. [/quote] You're confusing me with someone else. Yes, I lean conservative a lot of issues. But, please, please don't lump me in with repubs. [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1306872842' post='995474'] No offense taken. I realize that "the dumb" doesn't just rest in one party. My only concern is that the Right is currently applauding dumbness and doing everything they can to promote it. [/quote] While I agree with the repubs applauding dumbness... I don't see what the left has done to move things along and it appears that they're happy just setting up bills to fail so come election time they can say "see, we tried, but the repubs are blocking it" bullshit. I go back to - its all about getting re-elected and not about what is best. IMO, you think too highly of your chosen party and don't see the faults that are there. You also see more "progress" than what most others see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1306941781' post='995541'] You're confusing me with someone else. Yes, I lean conservative a lot of issues. But, please, please don't lump me in with repubs. While I agree with the repubs applauding dumbness... I don't see what the left has done to move things along and it appears that they're happy just setting up bills to fail so come election time they can say "see, we tried, but the repubs are blocking it" bullshit. I go back to - its all about getting re-elected and not about what is best. IMO, you think too highly of your chosen party and don't see the faults that are there. [b]You also see more "progress" than what most others see.[/b] [/quote] That's probably true. I am a commissioned salesperson for a living, in the American side of the auto industry(with a little Benz thrown in). I saw my income drop in half, my 401k drop in half, and all my other investments go in the shit. For a while even the Good credit customers had a hard time getting a loan, and if the Obama administration hadn't bailed out GM, I would have probably lost everything. But, it stabilized in '09, improved slightly in '10, and is growing again in '11. I guess if you work for an hourly wage or a salary, it might be hard to see the improvement, but I can, and believe me I just don't want economic stupidity to put us back in the ditch that we are slowly coming out of. As far as my party, I see the negatives and I do realize that we are way closer to a corporatocracy than a democracy, and that is a result of both parties. But the left is pretty much the same today as it was 15 years ago, if not a little more center than left, while the right is WAY RIGHT. I am amazed at the republican assaults on Public Employees, the entire social net, the public education system, the non-carbon based energy system, and women's uteruses, as well as their disdain for anyone that isn't wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1306943986' post='995545'] That's probably true. I am a commissioned salesperson for a living, in the American side of the auto industry(with a little Benz thrown in). I saw my income drop in half, my 401k drop in half, and all my other investments go in the shit. For a while even the Good credit customers had a hard time getting a loan, and if the Obama administration hadn't bailed out GM, I would have probably lost everything. But, it stabilized in '09, improved slightly in '10, and is growing again in '11. I guess if you work for an hourly wage or a salary, it might be hard to see the improvement, but I can, and believe me I just don't want economic stupidity to put us back in the ditch that we are slowly coming out of. As far as my party, I see the negatives and I do realize that we are way closer to a corporatocracy than a democracy, and that is a result of both parties. But the left is pretty much the same today as it was 15 years ago, if not a little more center than left, while the right is WAY RIGHT. I am amazed at the republican assaults on Public Employees, the entire social net, the public education system, the non-carbon based energy system, and women's uteruses, as well as their disdain for anyone that isn't wealthy. [/quote] Democrats are now Republicans, Republicans are now Fascists. OK, the second part pertains more to the Tea Baggers and religious zealots that have hijacked the Republican party, but the lack of push back from the mainstream makes me feel less guilty about lumping them all together. There is no real "left" remaining in America, at least not one with any power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1306944459' post='995546'] Democrats are now Republicans, Republicans are now Fascists. OK, the second part pertains more to the Tea Baggers and religious zealots that have hijacked the Republican party, but the lack of push back from the mainstream makes me feel less guilty about lumping them all together. There is no real "left" remaining in America, at least not one with any power... [/quote] Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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