Steelernation

[AAA]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Jul 21 2005, 09:51 PM']b/c there is no distinction from playing behind by 3 points or 33 points... those stats prove nothing, just like the majority of any sports "statistics"

nobody is discrediting ben to the degree for which you are accusing them of...

the facts are that ben was never under the same pressure that carson was under and rarely passed the ball, he was a handoff specialist, but its ok, i dont care, as long as you all claim he is god i am willing to sacrifice my first born on behalf of all high and mighty benjamin rothlesomething

and "sluzilla" wasnt banned, he was given a suspension and even he knows that he can return soon, however he was suspended for being a duechebag... acting like a little punk and not debating or providing any usefull posts, his posts were full of personal attacks and little logic (something the owner here tends to frown on), had he of not been a fucking moron he probably wouldnt have had his account suspended

anyways, welcome to the site, enjoy...
[right][post="117404"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Not one Steeler fan in this thread is claiming Ben to be God. NOT ONE. It’s the Bengal fans that continue to think that Ben can’t possibly improve one bit. Only Carson will get better. And continue to ignore the fact that Ben was a ROOKIE and Carson was in his 2nd season. I mean any QB can go 14-1 as a rookie. It's just that simple. What was that about using little logic??????

Sluzilla was providing more logic and factual information than any Bengal fan in this thread combined. If people should be suspended for insults, acting like morons or not using logic then most of the Bengals fans should have been suspended or banned in this thread.

[BrassBengal]

Steeler fans dont get enough sex, thats whats wrong. Such built up anger and frustration.

[JC]

[quote name='AAA' date='Jul 22 2005, 12:03 AM']I guess you have no clue what fantasy football is. [b]They're [/b]not saying he will be a better football player because of stats. [b]They're[/b] saying he will be better for those who play fantasy football. You might want to look up what fantasy football is before you stick your foot in your mouth again. Do you [b]KNOW[/b] English by any chance???? As for the rest of your gibberish all I can say is that you must have grown up eating paint chips.
[right][post="117412"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


And fantasy football is all about stats am i correct...so they are basically saying he will have better stats and in most cases that makes him a better player if im not mistaken right? Your probably thinking a better player will get the wins...so in that case i could be wrong to. Just the way you like at it

[JC]

[quote name='BrassBengal' date='Jul 22 2005, 12:24 AM']Steeler fans dont get enough sex, thats whats wrong.  Such built up anger and frustration.
[right][post="117419"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Maybe they dont have that much selection its ok bengals fans are pimps...we do have the biggest pimp in the nfl on our team

[The Scales]

Here i'll settle it

Carson>Rothlisbugur Always and forever.

If you can't see that then take off the homer shades because it is so (insert favorite curse word here) OBVIOUS.






AND , No one believes that carson is dumb, or too thick to pick up the offense, so give it up.










Please note all misspellings and gramatical errors are intentional.

[CoolieMan]

[quote name='BrassBengal' date='Jul 22 2005, 01:24 AM']Steeler fans dont get enough sex, thats whats wrong.  Such built up anger and frustration.
[right][post="117419"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


come on now...does any man ever really get what he truely believes is enough sex?

[Steel Balls]

[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 22 2005, 08:12 AM']come on now...does any man ever really get what he truely believes is enough sex?
[right][post="117486"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Coolie, really, you're tryin' your damnest to tap into these thick-sculled retards.

They cannot reason nor render any (Jamie is ok) friendly football talk, or give any lucent comments or feedback.

I would love for these folks to register onto SN and hang on our board for a week, if they had the backbone that is. They’d surely after one mere week, learn that SN is a board comprised of highly knowledgeable football members to say the very least.

Stop on by, we don’t bite. If you browse the board before joining, you’ll learn that any non-Steelers fan from whatever team that posts there is treated with respect if they’re not an a-hole, unlike many in this place.

[VaSteelerFan]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:51 PM']b/c there is no distinction from playing behind by 3 points or 33 points... those stats prove nothing, just like the majority of any sports "statistics"[/quote]


There is a distinction between 1-8 and 9-16 though. In each case, Ben was better.



[quote]the facts are that ben was never under the same pressure that carson was under and rarely passed the ball, he was a handoff specialist, but its ok, i dont care, as long as you all claim he is god i am willing to sacrifice my first born on behalf of all high and mighty benjamin rothlesomething[/quote]

Correction - Ben rarely threw the ball in the SECOND HALF. He threw plenty in the first half of games. In the first half, Ben threw 167 times, Carson 213. Of those 167 times, 29 went for more than 20 yards. Palmer threw 12 of 20+ yards, but was sacked half as much. 17 fewer passes over 20 yards with almost 50 more attempts? This is your great QB? Sure seems to me that Ben was throwing down the field and completing an awful lot of long passes in the first half for being a handoff specialist... don't ya think? Or is that just another one of those stats that we should ignore by holding our hands over our ears while yelling "la la la, I can't hear you."

It was in the 2nd half that Carson had to throw about twice as often. Partly because of the 29 passes of greater than 20 yards in the first half. Ben didn't simply hand off, and if you had watched any of the games, you would know that. It's not Ben's fault his defense actually could hold a lead enabling the Steelers to simply pound the ball in the second half.

Stop trying to convince yourself that Carson was the better QB last year - EVERY stat I have seen so far proves otherwise.

[quote]and "sluzilla" wasnt banned, he was given a suspension and even he knows that he can return soon, however he was suspended for being a duechebag... acting like a little punk and not debating or providing any usefull posts, his posts were full of personal attacks and little logic (something the owner here tends to frown on), had he of not been a fucking moron he probably wouldnt have had his account suspended[/quote]

I just think your mods need to grow a little thicker skin. What he was called by your moderator was far worse than what he said. Talk about logic. Why is it that even though every QB stat that means anything shows Ben was the better QB last year, but all we hear on this site are the excuses why the stats don't measure up?

[VaSteelerFan]

[quote name='The Scales' date='Jul 22 2005, 04:43 AM']Here i'll settle it

Carson>Rothlisbugur  Always and forever. 

If you can't see that then take off the homer shades because it is so (insert favorite curse word here)  OBVIOUS.
AND , No one believes that carson is dumb, or too thick to pick up the offense, so give it up.
Please note all misspellings and gramatical errors are intentional.
[right][post="117464"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



... I find it amusing that you failed to use a stat to back up your post. Could it be because it is so hard to find a stat that shows Carson was a better QB?


...and Steeler fans are the ones with the "homer shades" on. LMAO

[JC]

[quote name='VaSteelerFan' date='Jul 22 2005, 10:22 PM']... I find it amusing that you failed to use a stat to back up your post.  Could it be because it is so hard to find a stat that shows Carson was a better QB?
...and Steeler fans are the ones with the "homer shades" on.  LMAO
[right][post="117896"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


He has a better arm and thats not deniable. Down the road if duce and jerome are gone and you dont have a running back ben will have a hard time because he will be forced to pass more and the running game was one of the reasons you guys were always ahead and ben probably isnt to used to playing from behind and having to throw the ball. Thats where carson is better....ben is better at winning games and managing the clock. He can win games and thats a good thing but when he gets from behind hes going to have his struggles. The steelers still have two running backs that bust there ass so he wont struggle that much or if at all unless they both go down. Its going to be a exciting season and the afc is up for grabs to 3 of the 4 teams. Kyle boller isnt that great so it might just be the bengals and the steelers but no matter what the steelers and the bengals will have two excellent games. Best of luck to the steelers...just dont be suprised if the bengals grab one or two games on you guys this season

[Steel Balls]

[quote name='VaSteelerFan' date='Jul 22 2005, 10:20 PM']I just think your mods need to grow a little thicker skin.  What he was called by your moderator was far worse than what he said.  Talk about logic.  Why is it that even though every QB stat that means anything shows Ben was the better QB last year, but all we hear on this site are the excuses why the stats don't measure up?
[right][post="117894"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Does one of the moderators or webmaster of this mess of a board have a retort?

[Guest BadassBengal]

God, these Sqeeler fans are boring me.

Bottom line: Ben had the #1 D and a top 5 running game. Not to mention having two #1 WRs. Carson had no where close, on any of those. Carson threw for atleast 150 more times than Ben. Ben's defense controlled the flow of his games. He hardly ever had to make a comeback win, and when he did, it was agaisnt shitty teams. Ben would have never threw his way into the same victory that Carson did against the Ravens in the 4th. Why? Cause he never had to throw!

OROY my ass. Maybe if there was anotha competition for the best handoffs, he woulda deserved that...

[Guest BadassBengal]

[quote name='AAA' date='Jul 21 2005, 03:33 PM']However, I don't think Carson will ever get it and thus he will hold your team back.
[right][post="117156"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Is that right?

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Someone didnt watch Mr. Palmer durin the second half of the season...

[AAA]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 22 2005, 08:43 PM']ben is better at winning games [right][post="117910"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I sure hope I would have the QB who is better at winning on my team. Last time I checked that was the whole point. Btw, if Ben is better at winning that means Carson must be better at losing. But hey, Carson throws the ball more so he’s better.

What I’ve learned from Bengals fans:
Ben will never get better after playing well his [b]ROOKIE[/b] season. He will only get worse.
Carson will only get better after playing decent for [b]HALF[/b] a season. Which was his [b]SECOND[/b] season in the NFL.
Carson Palmer didn’t have the running game and receivers Ben had.
But Palmer will be better and Ben will suck because the Bengals have better receivers and backs. (Blatant contradiction)
The Bengals defense made Carson play catch up all season.
That same horrible defense is going to somehow make Ben look awful.
The Patriots figured out that stopping the run and making the Steelers pass is simple. (As if no one else thought of that or tried that during the season.)
Palmer was under more pressure than Ben while playing for a losing team with nothing on the line.
Ben was under less pressure while playing for a playoff contender for a city who cares about nothing but football.

And the Steelers fans are blind homers? WTF?

[mulepower]

[quote name='BadassBengal' date='Jul 22 2005, 11:30 PM']God, these Sqeeler fans are boring me.

Bottom line: Ben had the #1 D and a top 5 running game. Not to mention having two #1 WRs. Carson had no where close, on any of those. Carson threw for atleast 150 more times than Ben. Ben's defense controlled the flow of his games. He hardly ever had to make a comeback win, and when he did, it was agaisnt shitty teams. Ben would have never threw his way into the same victory that Carson did against the Ravens in the 4th. Why? Cause he never had to throw!

OROY my ass. Maybe if there was anotha competition for the best handoffs, he woulda deserved that...
[right][post="117928"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

So Jacksonville is a shitty team? Dallas and the Giants i'll give you.

Shouldn't a QB have a good running game and defense to help them out...isn't that what all teams try to accomplish for their QB?


Lets talk about the Carson Palmer who brings his team back He's a number one pick who had ample opportunities to win more games.



Against the NYJ,Palmer throws a pick with two minutes left on the last drive when a TD could have tied it,sending the game into OT. Hey that was his first start so give him a pass.

Third start,3 int. against the Ravens and couldn't get them into the end zone. Hey its the Ravens so we'll give him a pass.

Fourth start,a little over two minutes left down by four points against the Steelers. What does he do? Troy Polomalu picks his pass off and runs him over at the goal line to score. Then next possession Palmer throws an int. to Chad Scott to just about end the game.

Why couldn't Palmer against the Browns in the first game lead the Bengals to any TDs in the second half?

Against Tennessee,Palmer had 2nd and goal at the 9 with 35 seconds left. He even said," I should've gone one-two and thrown it out of the back of the end zone, stop the clock and give us a chance on third down," Palmer said. Instead was sacked by Haynesworth and fumbled. This is the Tennessee team that wins their division yearly. Oh thats right,they went 5 and 11,last in the division. Before that game,they were 2 and 5.

Against the Steelers again,with a chance to win the game Carson starts at his own nine yard line. Gets sacked by 34 year old Kimo on first down.Second down,Williams and Aaron Smith hit Palmer in the end zone causing a intentional grounding penalty.Why couldn't Palmer lead his team to any TDs in the second half,heck any FGs. In the second half, Cincinnati's offense managed only 42 yards and two first downs.

The second game against the Browns,Palmer kept the Browns in it with three interceptions. Two of the picks gave the Browns field position at the seven and one making it easy to score 14 points. The other one resulted in a FG. Yeah Palmer threw 4 TDs and the Browns went 4 and 12.

Before Palmer got hurt the score was Patriots 35 and Bengals 21.So i don't think he would have won that game for the Bengals.

Yes Palmer had a great game against the Ravens the second time. Facing the Cowboys he played very well. The Broncos game,the Bengals got inside the 20-yard line five times, but had to settle for three field goals by Shayne Graham, including a career-best 53-yarder. Twice, they got inside the 10 but came away empty, Rudi Johnson was stopped on fourth-and-1 and Bailey intercepted Palmer's pass to Chad Johnson. Jake Plummer threw two picks that set up FGs. The big play and most talked about was when Chad Johnson left Champ Bailey in his tracks on a 50 yard TD catch and had another 50 yard catch against him.


Before Palmer can be considered as good as Bengal fans keep saying,the guy has to be much more consistent. He watched as a rookie so he should have had less room for error last year. With all the weapons this year,if he's as good as people think,he should be head and shoulders above Ben. He has no excuse not to.






You're using one isolated event(game) to determine the worth of a QB. Tommy Maddox led the Steelers back from a 17 point deficit in the playoffs against the Browns. Does that make him a great QB? Just like Kelly Holcomb in that same game throwing for 429 yards doesn't mean he is a great QB.

Tim Couch brought his Browns back several times during his career. In 2002,down by 14 points to the Titans with 5 minutes left,he brought them back to tie and they won in OT. Against the NYJ,down by 15 at halftime,they won by 3.

In other words,using a comeback over consistency doesn't make sense. The Bengals have just as good of an offensive line,a better RB and better WRs. He was set up to score a lot of points. Look at that arsonal. Besides,he had a whole year to learn an offense before starting. Ben didn't. You wonder why Ben didn't throw 30 times a game? The Steelers know how to put a young QB into an ideal situation when the starter and the backup QB get hurt. Thats why Ben started. He wasn't even ready.

You're acting like because of one game,Palmer is better. Its going to take more than that to prove it. Is he better now?If he is,where's the proof. Ben hasn't even begun to get his potential down while Palmer is a lot more NFL ready however at a closer glance it doesn't appear that way. Maybe if the offense revolved more around the running game,the Bengals and Palmer would be better.

Its funny that a broken down Bus and an injury prone nobody could propel the Steelers to the second best rushing attack last year. Rudi Johnson is better than both guys now but couldn't carry the load enough to help your team be better running the ball. Yeah yeah i know,Chris Perry was hurt and your O-Line toughed it out all year playing with injuries and taking one for the team.

The Steelers ran the ball 61 percent of the time because in the 4th quarter we ran the clock out.Its what Cowher does after gaining a big lead. Ben threw the ball only 65 times in the 4th quarter and completed 50 of those passes for 597 yards with 4 TDs and 1 int. Seven of those completions were over 20 yards.

Carson was more ready to start yet Ben, despite being several years away from starting,had to.

With Palmer throwing 137 more times, he averaged 19 more yards a game. Hmmmm thats not a lot more yards.

Big Ben - 14 Games - 295 Attempts,196 completions, 2621 yards.
Carson Palmer - 13 Games - 432 Attempts,263 completions, 2897 yards.

Its kinda funny that with Ben handing the ball off so much he averaged 5 less completions a game. Wonder how Ben could throw for only 276 yards less if all he did was hand off?

Steeler fans have went through every available "stat" and its been ignored by Bengal fans for whatever reason. With a set of mediocre running backs,funny how they still produced so well. Ben was more efficient which you guys equal to being mediocre.





Ben will be much improved in certain areas due to having a year under center. Ben will be able to work on his mechanics,study defenses,know the playbook wherein last year he only was able to work with parts of it in part because of inexperience.

First off Ben was probally the least ready QB of the first 5 or so taken. The Steelers then fit the offense around him to help him along. Pretty smart by the coaching staff. One thing he was told to do was not force it along with taking the sack if noone was open. The Steelers had 2 QBs hurt so they had no choice to put him in.

You believe that Ben won't be able to get better? He knew very little last year and relied on his athletic ability. Coming up to the LOS looking at his wristband for the play shows he still was assimilating the offense. This year he won't be concerned with the offensive players lining up correctly or whether he knows the play but looking over the defense at the formations for pre snap reads and looking for continual mismatches,checkdowns and hot reads.






Ben played the top seven overall defenses in points allowed, excluding the Steelers of course.

NE #2 overall

Philly #3 overall

NYJ #4 overall

Washington #5 overall

Baltimore #6 overall

Jax #7 overall

Ben faced NE in the seventh game of the season,Philly the eighth game of the season,Washington the eleventh game of the season,Jax the twelfth game of the season,NYJ thirteenth game of the season,Baltimore the fifteenth game of the season. Whenever Pittsburgh and Baltimore play, because of the rivalry,it doesn't matter what time of year.They always will hate each other and its a battle.

The four out of the last 5 regular season games for Ben were against.

11/28 16-7 W WAS #5
12/05 17-16 W at JAC #7
12/12 17-6 W NYJ #4
12/18 33-30 W at NYG
12/26 20-7 W BAL #6

He had two great games,one good game,one mediocre and one poor.


When ARE started for Plaxico he equaled what Plax would average during that time period. ARE had 13 catches for 268 yards in those 4 games. Wilson will be playing the slot IMHO and played on one of the worst offenses with a horrible team who were sacked 52 times. What he can do behind a decent offense is the question.


The playoff talk is another matter. Who knows if he was healed from the rib injury. No matter,he played bad.So few rookie QBs have started in the playoffs. Dan Marino was 0 and 1 in the playoffs as a rookie losing to the 9 and 7 Seattle Seahawks. The only one,besides Ben, who won a playoff game was Shaun King in 99 who threw 28 out of 61 for 310 yards,0 TDs, 3 Int. winning in the divisional playoffs against the Skins but losing to the Rams in the Conference Championships 11 to 6. That goes back to the 1970 merger. Even Ken Anderson and Boomer Esiason couldn't do that.

[mulepower]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 22 2005, 10:43 PM']He has a better arm and thats not deniable.  Down the road if duce and jerome are gone and you dont have a running back ben will have a hard time because he will be forced to pass more and the running game was one of the reasons you guys were always ahead and ben probably isnt to used to playing from behind and having to throw the ball.  Thats where carson is better....ben is better at winning games and managing the clock.  He can win games and thats a good thing but when he gets from behind hes going to have his struggles.  The steelers still have two running backs that bust there ass so he wont struggle that much or if at all unless they both go down.  Its going to be a exciting season and the afc is up for grabs to 3 of the 4 teams. Kyle boller isnt that great so it might just be the bengals and the steelers but no matter what the steelers and the bengals will have two excellent games.  Best of luck to the steelers...just dont be suprised if the bengals grab one or two games on you guys this season
[right][post="117910"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


If you mean he can throw further in the EA QB challenge yeah. Hey Kyle Boller and Mike Vick have stronger arms than both and how accurate are they right now? I don't think Cowher is going to leave Ben out in the cold with no decent RB. There are other RBs we can get when Bettis retires and Duce is gone or replaced. Do you realize that Ben will grow as a QB? This rookie year isn't all there is to his legacy. Winning from behind isn't something QBs can count on all the time and using that to make your case isn't going to work. A little tidbit about that.

Over the course of Dan Marino’s 17-year career with the Dolphins, he brought the team back from a fourth quarter deficit a total of 37 times, with 21 fourth quarter triumphs at home and 16 on the road … Included in that total were three playoff games in which Marino led Miami back in the fourth quarter … Marino’s total of 37 fourth quarter comeback wins does NOT include 13 additional games, (12 in the regular season and one in the playoffs), that Marino won when the Dolphins were tied (but never did trail) in the fourth quarter, ten at home (one playoff contest and nine regular season games) and three on the road; If those 13 fourth-quarter tied situations are included, then Marino led the Dolphins on a total of 50 game-winning drives (31 at home and 19 on the road) … With 37 fourth quarter comeback victories, Marino ranks second in that category: Denver’s John Elway has 43 final period come-from behind wins.

Joe Montana led 31 fourth-quarter comeback victories, including playoffs. Brett Favre has 24 fourth-quarter comeback victories. Roger Staubach 23 fourth- quarter victories.

My point,expecting a QB to bring you from behind all the time goes against the odds. Look at those above. I sincerely hope you don't think Carson can be as good as any of those in fourth quarter comebacks based on one Ravens game. To do it once a year is good,twice is excellent,anymore is Hall of Famerish.

I expect every division game to be tough and for any team to sweep another would be difficult. The thing that will put the winner of the division on top is the coaching. Whichever team does the best job in that has the best chance to win the division IMHO. Injuries have a big part to play as you guys know about that with the 17 players on IR from last year.

[Guest The Carson Show]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 23 2005, 01:49 AM']So Jacksonville is a shitty team?  Dallas and the Giants i'll give you.   

    Shouldn't a QB have a good running game and defense to help them out...isn't that what all teams try to accomplish for their QB?
  Lets talk about the Carson Palmer who brings his team back  He's a number one pick who had ample opportunities to win more games.
  Against the NYJ,Palmer throws a pick with two minutes left on the last drive when a TD could have tied it,sending the game into OT. Hey that was his first start so give him a pass.

Third start,3 int. against the Ravens and couldn't get them into the end zone. Hey its the Ravens so we'll give him a pass.

Fourth start,a little over two minutes left down by four points against the Steelers. What does he do? Troy Polomalu picks his pass off and runs him over at the goal line to score. Then next possession Palmer throws an int. to Chad Scott to just about end the game.

Why couldn't Palmer against the Browns in the first game lead the Bengals to any TDs in the second half?

Against Tennessee,Palmer had 2nd and goal at the 9 with 35 seconds left. He even said," I should've gone one-two and thrown it out of the back of the end zone, stop the clock and give us a chance on third down," Palmer said. Instead was sacked by Haynesworth and fumbled. This is the Tennessee team that wins their division yearly. Oh thats right,they went 5 and 11,last in the division. Before that game,they were 2 and 5.

Against the Steelers again,with a chance to win the game Carson starts at his own nine yard line. Gets sacked by 34 year old Kimo on first down.Second down,Williams and Aaron Smith hit Palmer in the end zone causing a intentional grounding penalty.Why couldn't Palmer lead his team to any TDs in the second half,heck any FGs. In the second half, Cincinnati's offense managed only 42 yards and two first downs.

The second game against the Browns,Palmer kept the Browns in it with three interceptions. Two of the picks gave the Browns field position at the seven and one making it easy to score 14 points. The other one resulted in a FG. Yeah Palmer threw 4 TDs and the Browns went 4 and 12.

Before Palmer got hurt the score was Patriots 35 and Bengals 21.So i don't think he would have won that game for the Bengals.

Yes Palmer had a great game against the Ravens the second time. Facing the Cowboys he played very well. The Broncos game,the Bengals got inside the 20-yard line five times, but had to settle for three field goals by Shayne Graham, including a career-best 53-yarder. Twice, they got inside the 10 but came away empty, Rudi Johnson was stopped on fourth-and-1 and Bailey intercepted Palmer's pass to Chad Johnson. Jake Plummer threw two picks that set up FGs. The big play and most talked about was when Chad Johnson left Champ Bailey in his tracks on a 50 yard TD catch and had another 50 yard catch against him.
Before Palmer can be considered as good as Bengal fans keep saying,the guy has to be much more consistent. He watched as a rookie so he should have had less room for error last year. With all the weapons this year,if he's as good as people think,he should be head and shoulders above Ben. He has no excuse not to.
   



  You're using one isolated event(game) to determine the worth of a QB. Tommy Maddox led the Steelers back from a 17 point deficit in the playoffs against the Browns. Does that make him a great QB? Just like Kelly Holcomb in that same game throwing for 429 yards doesn't mean he is a great QB.

Tim Couch brought his Browns back several times during his career. In 2002,down by 14 points to the Titans with 5 minutes left,he brought them back to tie and they won in OT. Against the NYJ,down by 15 at halftime,they won by 3.

In other words,using a comeback over consistency doesn't make sense. The Bengals have just as good of an offensive line,a better RB and better WRs. He was set up to score a lot of points. Look at that arsonal. Besides,he had a whole year to learn an offense before starting. Ben didn't. You wonder why Ben didn't throw 30 times a game? The Steelers know how to put a young QB into an ideal situation when the starter and the backup QB get hurt. Thats why Ben started. He wasn't even ready.

You're acting like because of one game,Palmer is better. Its going to take more than that to prove it. Is he better now?If he is,where's the proof. Ben hasn't even begun to get his potential down while Palmer is a lot more NFL ready however at a closer glance it doesn't appear that way. Maybe if the offense revolved more around the running game,the Bengals and Palmer would be better. 

  Its funny that a broken down Bus and an injury prone nobody could propel the Steelers to the second best rushing attack last year. Rudi Johnson is better than both guys now but couldn't carry the load enough to help your team be better running the ball. Yeah yeah i know,Chris Perry was hurt and your O-Line toughed it out all year playing with injuries and taking one for the team.   

  The Steelers ran the ball 61 percent of the time because in the 4th quarter we ran the clock out.Its what Cowher does after gaining a big lead. Ben threw the ball only 65 times in the 4th quarter and completed 50 of those passes for 597 yards with 4 TDs and 1 int. Seven of those completions were over 20 yards. 

  Carson was more ready to start yet Ben, despite being several years away from starting,had to.

With Palmer throwing 137 more times, he averaged 19 more yards a game. Hmmmm thats not a lot more yards. 

  Big Ben - 14 Games - 295 Attempts,196 completions, 2621 yards.
Carson Palmer - 13 Games - 432 Attempts,263 completions, 2897 yards.

  Its kinda funny that with Ben handing the ball off so much he averaged 5 less completions a game. Wonder how Ben could throw for only 276 yards less if all he did was hand off?

Steeler fans have went through every available "stat" and its been ignored by Bengal fans for whatever reason. With a set of mediocre running backs,funny how they still produced so well. Ben was more efficient which you guys equal to being mediocre.


   
  Ben will be much improved in certain areas due to having  a year under center. Ben will be able to work on his mechanics,study defenses,know the playbook wherein last year he only was able to work with parts of it in part because of inexperience. 

First off Ben was probally the least ready QB of the first 5 or so taken. The Steelers then fit the offense around him to help him along. Pretty smart by the coaching staff. One thing he was told  to do was not  force it along with taking the sack if noone was open. The Steelers had 2 QBs hurt so they had no choice to put him in.

You believe that Ben won't be able to get better? He knew very little last year and relied on his athletic ability. Coming up to the LOS looking at his wristband for the play shows he still was assimilating the offense. This year he won't be concerned with the offensive players lining up correctly or whether he knows the play but looking over the defense at the formations for pre snap reads and looking for continual mismatches,checkdowns and hot reads.
  Ben played the top seven overall defenses in points allowed, excluding the Steelers of course.

NE #2 overall

Philly #3 overall

NYJ #4 overall

Washington #5 overall

Baltimore #6 overall

Jax #7 overall

Ben faced NE in the seventh game of the season,Philly the eighth game of the season,Washington the eleventh game of the season,Jax the twelfth game of the season,NYJ thirteenth game of the season,Baltimore the fifteenth game of the season. Whenever Pittsburgh and Baltimore play, because of the rivalry,it doesn't matter what time of year.They always will hate each other and its a battle.

The four out of the last 5 regular season games for Ben were against.

11/28 16-7 W WAS #5
12/05 17-16 W at JAC #7
12/12 17-6 W NYJ #4
12/18 33-30 W at NYG
12/26 20-7 W BAL #6   

  He had two great games,one good game,one mediocre and one poor.
  When ARE started for Plaxico he equaled what Plax would average during that time period. ARE had 13 catches for 268 yards in those 4 games. Wilson will be playing the slot IMHO and played on one of the worst offenses with a horrible team who were sacked 52 times. What he can do behind a decent offense is the question.
The playoff talk is another matter. Who knows if he was healed from the rib injury. No matter,he played bad.So few rookie QBs have started in the playoffs. Dan Marino was 0 and 1 in the playoffs as a rookie losing to the 9 and 7 Seattle Seahawks.  The only  one,besides Ben, who won a playoff game was Shaun King in 99 who threw 28 out of 61 for 310 yards,0 TDs, 3 Int. winning in the divisional playoffs against the Skins but losing to the Rams in the Conference Championships 11 to 6. That goes back to the  1970 merger. Even Ken Anderson and Boomer Esiason couldn't do that.
[right][post="118010"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]

[Guest BadassBengal]

[quote name='The Carson Show' date='Jul 23 2005, 02:37 AM'] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]
[right][post="118042"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

exactly

God damn, muthafucka. Is it THAT crucial?!

Carson did more with less at the end. That's all I care about when it comes to my QB. Now we're givin him some shit, and he's gonna do some shit. Muthafucka has more stats than oldschooler...

[Guest The Carson Show]

[quote name='BadassBengal' date='Jul 23 2005, 02:58 AM'] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

exactly

God damn, muthafucka. Is it THAT crucial?!

Carson did more with less at the end. That's all I care about when it comes to my QB. [b]Now we're givin him some shit, and he's gonna do some shit.[/b] Muthafucka has more stats than oldschooler...
[right][post="118063"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
speak english Urkel

[Randog]

[quote name='The Carson Show' date='Jul 23 2005, 02:37 AM'] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/28.gif[/img]
[right][post="118042"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Don't blame ya for being bored. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Or at least a story that makes you look good, as long as you ignore the facts.

Make the playoffs. Since 89 or whatever it was. Then we can talk. Ben vs. Palmer? Last time I checked, Ben made the playoffs his first time out. Palmer still hasn't. "Yeah, but he will this year! We're SOOOO much better now!" Fuck that. Prove it. Untill then, STFU. What retard would argue against that logic?

Oh, yeah. Bengals fans.

[Nati Ice]

so are you a browns fan dog? or are you just another choke artist...

[Randog]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Jul 23 2005, 03:17 AM']so are you a browns fan dog? or are you just another choke artist...
[right][post="118079"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Steeler fan through and through.

2 SBs for you and 2 losses.

Who choke? You choke.

[Nati Ice]

excellent...

:twiddles fingers:






welcome, enjoy, etc.

[VaSteelerFan]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 22 2005, 12:44 AM']And fantasy football is all about stats am i correct...so they are basically saying he will have better stats and in most cases that makes him a better player if im not mistaken right? Your probably thinking a better player will get the wins...so in that case i could be wrong to.  Just the way you like at it
[right][post="117423"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



No, it just means they expect the Bengals will have to sling the ball all over the field late in games because the defense will be giving up 30 points a game. Throwing more means more yards for the QB.

Although, I am not sure why they rank them the way they do. Last season, Ben outscored Carson in most FF leagues.

[VaSteelerFan]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 22 2005, 10:43 PM']He has a better arm and thats not deniable. 
[right][post="117910"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Then why did Ben have 29 throws of 20+ yards to Carson's 12 in the first half... with almost 50 more attempts. One would think that Carson's better arm would lead him to more than just 12 passes of more than 20 yards. Again, the stats simply do not back up your statements.