PatternMaster Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 I started this thread to discuss current events and to give historical context in hopes of having an educated discussion on this unfortunate situation. Here's a good doc from Frontline that gives a modern history lesson on the relationship between these two groups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Here's an article about how current Israeli PM Bibi Netanyahu supported and helped legitimize Hamas, the group that carried out the terror attacks earlier this month. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ Quote For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group. The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state..... Quote Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015. According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. Instead of dealing with the Palestinian Authority Government, which is a peaceful government that only wanted statehood for its people and peace, he chose to deal with a terrorist organization with a clear goal of killing Israelis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Hezbollah has entered the chat... https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-israel-hezbollah-gaza-clashes-c279d38d6b67cac526ac95e63f9cca73 Quote Hezbollah and Israel fought a monthlong war in 2006 that ended in a tense stalemate. Lebanon’s state-run National News Agency reported that small arms fire was heard along the tense border coming from near the Lebanese village of Aitaroun toward the northern Israeli town of Avivim where key military barracks are located. Meanwhile, Israel shelled areas near the southeastern Lebanese town of Blida. Israel sees Iran-backed Hezbollah as its most serious threat, estimating it has some 150,000 rockets and missiles aimed at Israel.... “Bottom line is … Hezbollah is playing a very, very dangerous game,” he said. “(It is) extremely important for everybody in Lebanon to ask themselves the question of the price. Is the Lebanese state really willing to jeopardize what is left of Lebanese prosperity and Lebanese sovereignty for the sake of terrorists in Gaza?” The international community and Lebanese authorities have been scrambling to ensure the cash-strapped country does not find itself in a new war. Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah, has yet to comment on the latest Hamas-Israel war, though other officials have. Hezbollah legislator Hassan Fadlallah said Sunday said Nasrallah’s silence was part of a strategy to deter Israel from Lebanon and to “prevent the enemy from reaching its goal in Gaza.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Meanwhile.... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/israel-palestine-hamas-war-arms-exports-uk-government/ Quote The UK government has no plans to suspend arms sales to Israel, despite human rights campaigners warning its exports have been used to kill civilians, openDemocracy has been told. Francesca Albanese, the UN’s special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories, warned last week that “Palestinians are in grave danger of mass ethnic cleansing”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Meanwhile, much needed aid for the Palestinians is too little and slow... About a dozen trucks carrying desperately needed aid – the third convoy in three days – arrived in Gaza from Egypt on Monday through Rafah, Gaza's only crossing not controlled by Israel. The flow of aid, however, is deemed too small and too slow by humanitarian groups as too small and too slow. "It's nothing compared to the needs," Head of Mission for Doctors without Border Leo Cans said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 hours ago, PatternMaster said: Meanwhile, much needed aid for the Palestinians is too little and slow... About a dozen trucks carrying desperately needed aid – the third convoy in three days – arrived in Gaza from Egypt on Monday through Rafah, Gaza's only crossing not controlled by Israel. The flow of aid, however, is deemed too small and too slow by humanitarian groups as too small and too slow. "It's nothing compared to the needs," Head of Mission for Doctors without Border Leo Cans said. Read where they're trying for 20 trucks a day. Some say 100 is needed. Depends on how long the terrorists keep it coming in. Hamas and other terrorist factions of Iran don't care about Palestinian needs. Their Only goal is to destroy Israel and other Western countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2023 https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/israel-hamas-war-latest-updates-5793764/ Israel continued to step up its air assaults in the war on Hamas Tuesday. Military officials said they had launched 400 more airstrikes in the past day, including some aimed at Hezbollah targets on the Lebanese border, on top of 320 strikes the day before. Jets also targeted a military compound in Gaza after the Israeli navy intercepted Hamas militants attempting to enter southern Israel by sea, officials said. Hamas released two more hostages late Monday, elderly women taken from Nir Oz kibbutz during the Oct. 7 attacks, as international pressure grew to free more than 200 others thought to remain captive. Speaking at a United Nations Security Council meeting Tuesday, Secretary General António Guterres said Hamas’ attacks were “appalling” but that they “did not happen in a vacuum.” Secretary of State Antony Blinken told the U.N. that the U.S. doesn’t want the war to become a larger regional conflict, but “if Iran or its proxies attack U.S. personnel anywhere … we will defend our people.” French President Emmanuel Macron proposed an international coalition to fight terror groups while in Israel Tuesday. More than 1,400 people in Israel died in the Oct. 7 terror attacks. The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said at least 5,700 people have died since Israel began retaliating. The World Health Organization said Tuesday that six hospitals in Gaza closed due to a fuel shortage and called for an immediate ceasefire so aid could be distributed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2023 On 10/23/2023 at 2:35 PM, claptonrocks said: Read where they're trying for 20 trucks a day. Some say 100 is needed. Depends on how long the terrorists keep it coming in. Hamas and other terrorist factions of Iran don't care about Palestinian needs. Their Only goal is to destroy Israel and other Western countries. So why would Netanyahu choose to work with them instead of a peaceful Palestinian government whose goal is to establish a Palestinian state? It's almost as if he wanted Hamas to attack so he could have justification to commit genocide on the Palestinian people under the guise of fighting Hamas..which is exactly what they are doing... Netanyahu has been against the creation of a legitimized Palestinian state and siding with Hamas over the Palestinian Authority government was his way of keeping Palestine in a state of chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 25, 2023 Report Share Posted October 25, 2023 2 hours ago, PatternMaster said: So why would Netanyahu choose to work with them instead of a peaceful Palestinian government whose goal is to establish a Palestinian state? It's almost as if he wanted Hamas to attack so he could have justification to commit genocide on the Palestinian people under the guise of fighting Hamas..which is exactly what they are doing... Netanyahu has been against the creation of a legitimized Palestinian state and siding with Hamas over the Palestinian Authority government was his way of keeping Palestine in a state of chaos. Im guessing Netanyahu was dealing with Arafat not PLA due to the terrorist's taking control. Hard dealing with savages as they're only goal is to destroy Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2023 28 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Im guessing Netanyahu was dealing with Arafat not PLA due to the terrorist's taking control. Hard dealing with savages as they're only goal is to destroy Israel. You are guessing wrong and calling people savages is...well yeah....Arafat was against Hamas, he worked with Israel to kill Hamas leaders and soldiers. He was the president of the PLA until his death in 2004, he wanted peace between Palestine and Israel and did not support any form of terrorism. Netanyahu didn't want to work with Arafat's successor because he didn't want a Palestinian state and by default, he didn't want peace...so he got October 7th in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 25, 2023 Report Share Posted October 25, 2023 21 minutes ago, PatternMaster said: You are guessing wrong and calling people savages is...well yeah....Arafat was against Hamas, he worked with Israel to kill Hamas leaders and soldiers. He was the president of the PLA until his death in 2004, he wanted peace between Palestine and Israel and did not support any form of terrorism. Netanyahu didn't want to work with Arafat's successor because he didn't want a Palestinian state and by default, he didn't want peace...so he got October 7th in return. Point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 25, 2023 Report Share Posted October 25, 2023 Until both Israel and the Palestinians give up their "Right of Return" nothing will ever get resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 I believe Israel will continue their effort to destroy the Hamas in Gaza. The efforts of Arab nations for a ceasefire and negotiations with the hamas savages will not last and Israel knows this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 17 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: I believe Israel will continue their effort to destroy the Hamas in Gaza. The efforts of Arab nations for a ceasefire and negotiations with the hamas savages will not last and Israel knows this. What about the Americans trapped in Gaza, when is Biden going to stand up for them...600 Americans are there right now and I don't see any press conferences for American Palenstinians.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 30 minutes ago, PatternMaster said: What about the Americans trapped in Gaza, when is Biden going to stand up for them...600 Americans are there right now and I don't see any press conferences for American Palenstinians.. Hamas won't let them out. What can Biden/Blinkin do? You tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Hamas won't let them out. What can Biden/Blinkin do? You tell me. Says who...that's not logical. Israel has destroyed every escape route and the US isn't doing enough to get them out. If the US can get Israeli hostages released from Hamas how can they not get Palestinian Americans out of Palestine..where there is a will there is a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 Noam Chomsky on why no government supports the Palestinians but why the US blindly supports Isreal. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyijUNwLjXk/?fbclid=IwAR2Ja1yQAJiGc-Ss71o4Ph2DtObTzlQF3Ra6qpY9zTZWMYzSFYWKnTOKk4Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 hour ago, PatternMaster said: Says who...that's not logical. Israel has destroyed every escape route and the US isn't doing enough to get them out. If the US can get Israeli hostages released from Hamas how can they not get Palestinian Americans out of Palestine..where there is a will there is a way. Bargaing chips. Israel has forwarned the palistinians to move south in Gaza Up to Hamas to let them or use them as shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Bargaing chips. Israel has forwarned the palistinians to move south in Gaza Up to Hamas to let them or use them as shields. lol.... are you purposely ignoring what is being reported that directly conflicts with what you are saying? They are telling them to move south, then they are bombing them along the way and bombing the exit points. Giving 1.1 million people 24 hours to evacuate a city isn't realistic, are you trying to be disingenuous purposely or do you receive your info from biased news sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 30, 2023 Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 hours ago, PatternMaster said: lol.... are you purposely ignoring what is being reported that directly conflicts with what you are saying? They are telling them to move south, then they are bombing them along the way and bombing the exit points. Giving 1.1 million people 24 hours to evacuate a city isn't realistic, are you trying to be disingenuous purposely or do you receive your info from biased news sources? It was more than 24 hrs The Hamas wants shields. They build their headqtrd under hospitals . Savage animals who attacked and lkilled Israeles to start this war. I suppose you believe George Soros is a great guy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 30, 2023 Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 Asymmetrical Warfare against an opponent that is vastly superior in their forces and technology gives you what Hamas does. Not defending it by any stretch of the imagination, it's cowardly, but that's what you have to do in that kind of fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, claptonrocks said: It was more than 24 hrs The Hamas wants shields. They build their headqtrd under hospitals . Savage animals who attacked and lkilled Israeles to start this war. I suppose you believe George Soros is a great guy too. This war has been going on for decades, and who started it is up for debate, how Israel is handling their response is in direct conflict with international law and is a war crime...I guess 2 wrongs make it right. Hamas are cowardly POS, no question about it..but killing innocent civilians because you can doesn't make it better. If Israel were to go into Palestine and capture those loyal to Hamas it would be better than carpet bombing the whole damn country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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