Who is responsible for more deaths ?

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="red"]This is not even close[/color]





[i]"If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." [/i]
[b]--- Noam Chomsky [/b]

[Jamie_B]

Noam Chomsky [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31.gif[/img]

[Storm]

Abraham Lincoln

[The Scales]

Is this a trick question?

Gotta go with my gut and say- Bush?

[Homer_Rice]

Jefferson Davis

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]Wow this proves my point that despite the facts some can't bear the reality[/b][/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[url="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884893.html"]http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884893.html[/url]

[u]Suspected al-Qaeda Terrorist Acts under Bin Laden[/u]
1993 (Feb.): Bombing of World Trade Center (WTC); 6 killed.
1993 (Oct.): Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.
1996 (June): Truck bombing at Khobar Towers barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killed 19 Americans.
1998 (Aug.): Bombing of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania; 224 killed, including 12 Americans.
1999 (Dec.): Plot to bomb millennium celebrations in Seattle foiled when customs agents arrest an Algerian smuggling explosives into the U.S.
2000 (Oct.): Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.
2001 (Sept.): Destruction of WTC; attack on Pentagon. Total dead 2,992.
2001 (Dec.): Man tried to denote shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.
2002 (April): Explosion at historic synagogue in Tunisia left 21 dead, including 14 German tourists.
2002 (May): Car exploded outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.
2002 (June): Bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.
2002 (Oct.): Boat crashed into oil tanker off Yemen coast, killing 1.
2002 (Oct.): Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, killed 202, mostly Australian citizens.
2002 (Nov.): Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, killed 16.
2003 (May): Suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
2003 (May): 4 bombs killed 33 people targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.
2003 (Aug.): Suicide car-bomb killed 12, injured 150 at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
2003 (Nov.): Explosions rocked a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia housing compound, killing 17.
2003 (Nov.): Suicide car-bombers simultaneously attacked 2 synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds.
2003 (Nov.): Truck bombs detonated at London bank and British consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 26.
2004 (March): 10 bombs on 4 trains exploded almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 202 and injuring more than 1,400.
2004 (May): Terrorists attacked Saudi oil company offices in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, killing 22.
2004 (June): Terrorists kidnapped and executed American Paul Johnson, Jr., in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
2004 (Sept.): Car bomb outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, killed 9.
2004 (Dec.): Terrorists entered the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, killing 9 (including 4 attackers).
2005 (July): Bombs exploded on 3 trains and a bus in London, England, killing 52.

[color="red"]= Added up together is Less than 4,000 Deaths [/color]


[u]Bushie[/u]

[url="http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1417965.htm"]http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1417965.htm[/url]

[quote]US-led forces, insurgents and criminal gangs have killed nearly 25,000 civilians, police, and army recruits since the war began in March 2003, according to a survey by Iraq Body Count.

Of the total, nearly [u]37 per cent [/u]have been killed by US-led forces.[/quote]

[b]This is just civilians in Iraq mind you and not those killed in Afghanistan and it already equals

[color="red"]= 9,000 Civilian Deaths[/color] (not to mention insurgent deaths) [/b]

[Guest oldschooler]

How about all of the Civilians killed in Iraq
by the terrorist ?

10,861 civilians have been killed by terrorist
in Iraq since May 1st 2003.


[url="http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=8298"]http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=8298[/url]

How about the 1000 people that died at the mere mention
of a suicide bomber ?


[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_050831205860;_ylt=AlqR7atS_5MVRHUNfWBL.CgUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA2ZGZwam4yBHNlYwNmYw--"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_...m4yBHNlYwNmYw--[/url]

Anyway play your game and let`s say that
Osama (who is raising his hand)
only killed 4,000 people.

And let`s say that a War Saddam Hussein started
that Bush led killed 9,000 people. It doesn`t take away
the fact that the civilians in Iraq weren`t targets for the U.S.
...can Osama say the same ?

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]How about all of the Civilians killed in Iraq
by the terrorist ?

10,861 civilians have been killed by terrorist
in Iraq since May 1st 2003.[/quote]

[b]Wow Fox has really done their Job....

Bush lovers now equate all Iraqi insurgent deaths to Al Qaeda and Bin Laden .....

Are you fucking kidding me

Most of the insurgents in Iraq have nothing to do with Al Qaeda... they want us the fuck out of their country...... Also I love the vague word "Terrorist" that you use and ultimatley try to tie that to Osama.

[/b]
[quote]And let`s say that a War Saddam Hussein started
that Bush led killed 9,000 people.[/quote]

[b]You shoud almost be admitted for Loss of reality with this statement "That Saddam Started" --- I have heard it all now and damn that actually drove me to open up a beer (Unbelievable) [/b]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:32 AM'][b]Wow Fox has really done their Job....

Bush lovers now equate all Iraqi insurgent deaths to Al Qaeda and Bin Laden .....

Are you fucking kidding me

Most of the insurgents in Iraq have nothing to do with Al Qaeda... they want us the fuck out of their country...... Also I love the vague word "Terrorist" that you use and ultimatley try to tie that to Osama. [right][post="148091"][/post][/right][/quote]

Why do you ALWAYS bring up Fox News ?
I have already told you that I watch MSNBC.


Here let my clue you in Mr Clueless...


They aren`t FROM Iraq so they can`t be INSURGENTS
The tactics they are using are TERRORISTIC.
Abu Musab Zarqawi is a KNOWN MEMBER OF AL QAEDA.

[url="http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041120-120220-6261r.htm"]http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041120-120220-6261r.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4829643"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4829643[/url]

[url="http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Abu+Musab+Zarqawi+is+a+KNOWN+MEMBER+OF+AL+QAEDA.&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t-286&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8"]http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Abu+Musab...1&cop=&ei=UTF-8[/url]


[quote]You shoud almost be admitted for Loss of reality with this statement "That Saddam Started" --- I have heard it all now and damn that actually drove me to open up a beer   (Unbelievable)             [/quote]


Why is it so hard to understand that if Saddam HAD ABIDED BY TERMS
OF HIS SURRENDER that there would be no war ? We ALLOWED him
to stay in power in the first place...remember ? :roll:

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]They aren`t FROM Iraq so they can`t be INSURGENTS[/quote]

[b]Where the hell do you get that Idea ????

Of course they are from Iraq.... sure there might be small pockets of guys coming across the borders we have not secured .... but what makes you think they are not Iraqi ???


Awaits Link to Rush Limbaugh article[/b]

[Jason]

Shouldn't the question be "who has intentionally kiiled more innocent civilians?"

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Shouldn't the question be "who has intentionally kiiled more innocent civilians?"[/quote]

[b]Under which sides definition of "Innocent" ?

and under whose definition of "intentionally" ?[/b]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]The tactics they are using are TERRORISTIC.[/quote]

[img]http://www.planet.nl/upload_mm/e/0/a/1992181111_1999998864_biglebowski337x253.jpg[/img]

[i]"As if Shock and Awe doesn't cause Terror Man?"[/i]


[img]http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,252290,00.jpg[/img]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:54 AM'][b]Where the hell do you get that Idea ????

Of course they are from Iraq.... sure there might be small pockets of guys coming across the borders we have not secured .... but what makes you think they are not Iraqi ???
Awaits Link to Rush Limbaugh article[/b]
[right][post="148118"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Most of the "insurgents" FROM Iraq are Sunni`s.
They are the MINORITY of the population.

Abu Musab Zarqawi is [b]Jordanian.[/b] And
he is LEADING the insurgency.

[quote]Coalition officials said some foreign fighters are entering the country and assuming Iraqi identities. Marines in Fallujah uncovered a building loaded with clothes and identification cards used for that purpose.[/quote]

[url="http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/10_03/commentary/32984-1.html"]http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/10_0...ry/32984-1.html[/url]


[quote]More foreign fighters entering Iraq: US general

Foreign fighters entering Iraq in recent months make up a growing percentage of insurgents battling US troops and the country's fledgling security force, according to a senior US military commander.

In an interview with CNN in Mosul, General John Abizaid - the commander of US Central Command which covers Iraq - said that [b]while most insurgents appear to be Iraqis,[/b] "[b]the percentage of foreign fighters over the past several months seems to have increased".[/b]

He also said the insurgents' ranks likely include "former Baathist criminals".

"It seems to be pretty well established that they tend to cross over from Syria, although we know that there have been some infiltrations from the Saudi border, there have been some from the Iranian border," General Abizaid said.

"The Syrians are not doing everything we've asked them to do," he said, adding that Syria's intelligence services are not being aggressive enough in dismantling "facilitation cells" inside Syria.


[b]Asked for an update on the ongoing US manhunt for Iraq's most-wanted insurgent - the Al Qaeda linked Jordanian Abu Masab Al-Zarqawi - General Abizaid said Zarqawi's followers were certainly operating in western Iraq. [/b][/quote]


[url="http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1332344.htm"]http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200503/s1332344.htm[/url]










Oh ....and FUCK OFF with your God Damn FOX News and Rush
Limbaugh bullshit. [img]http://www.imagemagician.com/images/nebsmak/emotes/flip.gif[/img]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]Old none of that equates the majority of insurgents to foriegners....

at least I know you can't read now [/b][/i]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 13 2005, 11:14 AM'][i][b]Old none of that equates the majority of insurgents to foriegners....

at least I know you can't read now  [/b][/i]
[right][post="148135"][/post][/right][/quote]


Obviously YOU can`t read.

I like how you are trying to sway the argeument
to whether or not "the majority" are Iraqi`s. :roll:


Fact is they are LED by a MEMBER OF AL QAEDA
that is LED BY OSAMA BIN LADEN.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]I like how you are trying to sway the argeument
to whether or not "the majority" are Iraqi`s.


Fact is they are LED by a MEMBER OF AL QAEDA
that is LED BY OSAMA BIN LADEN. [/quote]

[i][b]you think that the most wanted man in the Nation of Iraq.... Zarqawi is conductiong full operations where he is able to lead many different groups of insurgents and their attacks.... if that is the case then

1. We are failing miserably.... which you say we are not...... (you can't have it both ways)

2. Zarqawi is leading small bands of fighters and the rest of the insurgents are conducting their own operations.... [/b][/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[i][b]Showing how distorter Americans have become... we make documentaries about bombing the fuck out of other people

[img]https://www.thecnl.com/products/DVE175120.jpg[/img]


Gerbels never even made a "Blitzkrieg" video to recruit with [/b][/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[img]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3796/shock5bk.jpg[/img]
[color="red"]And I am sure that this guy was comforted when American troops told him a month later that they were really aiming for a Saddam Palace when they dropped a bomb on his house ....... (but don't worry the purpose was not to cause "Terror". and you'll have a McDonalds in a years time [/color]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Sep 13 2005, 11:21 AM'][i][b]you think that the most wanted man in the Nation of Iraq.... Zarqawi is conductiong full operations where he is able to lead many different groups of insurgents and their attacks.... if that is the case then

1. We are failing miserably.... which you say we are not...... (you can't have it both ways)

2.  Zarqawi is leading small bands of fighters and the rest of the insurgents are conducting their own operations.... [/b][/i]
[right][post="148143"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



No we aren`t failing miserably...the Iraqi people are on OUR SIDE.
Plus...

[b]Al Qaeda leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi reported "wounded"[/b]
[url="http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda_leader_Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi_wounded"]http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda_leade...Zarqawi_wounded[/url]

No he isn`t leading ALL insurgents.
But when I said he is leading the insurgency I was saying that he is THE
MAIN PLAYER IN IT...and if you don`t think he has been THE MAIN PLAYER
in the Insurgency... then you`re even more clueless than I had thought...

[b]Terror Broker
Bin Laden needed a role in the Iraqi insurgency, and Zarqawi needed outside support. How a deadly deal was made.[/b]
[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7369892/site/newsweek/"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7369892/site/newsweek/[/url]


[quote]On October 21, 2004, Zarqawi officially announced his allegiance to Al Qaida; on December 27, 2004, Al-Jazeera broadcast an audiotape of bin Laden calling Zarqawi "the prince of al Qaeda in Iraq" and asked "all our organization brethren to listen to him and obey him in his good deeds."


Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is widely regarded as the leader of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal Jihad (Unification and Holy War Group), an insurgent network operating in Iraq[/quote].


[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi[/url]


[quote]The Jordanian-born fugitive heads a group called al-Qaida-in-Iraq blamed in attacks killing hundreds of people, including US soldiers.[/quote]


[url="http://zarqawiblog.blogspot.com/"]http://zarqawiblog.blogspot.com/[/url]



So yeah...Osama is to blame for ALOT of Iraqi forces, civilian and
Coalition forces and other deaths that you failed to list...