What is it about Pitt ???

[cwing]

Fix or not, these guys got it done---------HOW ???

They are the team that everyone comes away from saying, "if we played them again we would kill them". "We should have beaten them", "we beat ourselves, they didn't beat us". "If we did this, if we did that". "We should have done this, we could have done that". So how can they keep doing this? What is it that they do to teams that are better than they are. How do they frustrate teams and makes them play Pitt game?

Why, why, why????????????? and how do we get some ?????

Barring the fix, what are the reasons they won this thing? (note---the fix was on for Pitt to lose to Indy but they overcame).

[Guest steggyD]

Well, Indy was straight up outplayed until the last quarter, so that's easy. Denver also. But last night's game, well, how can you beat a team if the zebras won't let you in the endzone?

Oh, and one other way to get it done, take out the opposing QB that you fear the most.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[size=3][u][b]4 step plan to a Championship [/u] [/size]

Step 1 - Injure the Games Best QB who shreaded your team previously

Step 2 - Play a distracted coach who a week earlier was giving a Eulogy for his teenage son who killed himself

Step 3 - Play a Plummer who instead of a QB .... should really be a Plumber

Step 4 - Have the Refs spot you 25 points by taking away 3 opposing TD's and giving you one instead of the FG you deserve [/b]

[cwing]

I agree with all the above. However, not the conversation I was hoping for.



How does Pitt take teams out of their game plans and frustrates them to the point that they play Pitts game?

Everyone wants a 2nd shot at them. Everyone thinks they can beat them. Everyuone thinks that they beat themselves and Pitt did not actually beat them.

Pitt has holes everywhere but no one seems to exploit them.

Basially, they force you to implode.

How??? Why???

Watching that game yesturday was just like watching Bengals PItt one and Bengals Pitt playoff game.

Even today I feel Seattle is better than Pitt, Indy is better than Pitt, Denver is better than Pitt and Cincy is far far better than Pitt. However, Pitt is the SB Champs. Pitt did not win those games, they frustrated teams into losing them.......How ??? Why ???

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote]Everyone thinks they can beat them[/quote]

[b]and most teams are when they don't have their Stud QB carted off from a cheapshot .... or have the refs take away 21 points from them [/b]

[DanvilleBengal]

[quote name='cwing' post='214770' date='Feb 6 2006, 03:04 PM']I agree with all the above. However, not the conversation I was hoping for.



How does Pitt take teams out of their game plans and frustrates them to the point that they play Pitts game?

Everyone wants a 2nd shot at them. Everyone thinks they can beat them. Everyuone thinks that they beat themselves and Pitt did not actually beat them.

Pitt has holes everywhere but no one seems to exploit them.

Basially, they force you to implode.

How??? Why???

Watching that game yesturday was just like watching Bengals PItt one and Bengals Pitt playoff game.

Even today I feel Seattle is better than Pitt, Indy is better than Pitt, Denver is better than Pitt and Cincy is far far better than Pitt. However, Pitt is the SB Champs. Pitt did not win those games, they frustrated teams into losing them.......How ??? Why ???[/quote]
Part of it is confidence and intimidation. The Cheaters always go out there, spew their filth, and get into other people's heads. Instead of the other team playing and sticking to their gameplan, they go out and try to show up the bastards. that force4s them into mistakes, and before you know it, they've lost the game and are crying about wantin a second chance. The time we beat them, we were the ones doing the intimidation and the shit talk, forcing them to play our game. We fell into that same trap the first time around, and we were all set to put foot to ass in the third go=round.

[DanvilleBengal]

Simply put, stand up to the bully and kick him in the nuts. A bully can't do shit if their victims aren't scared of them.

[Guest Master Shake]

[quote]What is it about Pitt?[/quote]

[size=7]THEY CHEAT[/size]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][b][size=4]Stuart Scott of ESPN had two great lines today about Raglessgina: ....[/size][/b]


[size=3][i]"At the end of the first quarter Big ben only had one more yard passing than I did"



"Big Ben is the first Quarterback to win a Superbowl with a Passing rating lower than his age... and he is 23"[/i][/size][/center]

[VonBlade]

They are just utterly classness. Bitch when they lose. Gloat when they are handed a victory. Sorry, gloat when they "win". Late tackles, helmet hits, knees and elbows.

Just utterly classless fuckwits.

Don't suppose they've got someone from Miami due to retire next year?? Just in case the NFL need to fix something else.
VB

[-GoBengals-]

its mostly mental, and only tj and a few other not so big name huys were up to the mental challenge in the palyoff game, aside from the bs calls(which didnt start in the playoffs, but this mess aside) porter called themselves out, they arent a smart team, they dont have great coaches, and thier players arent pro bowlers, i dont care how good the fairy tail is, there is nothing ground breaking going on in pitstburgh, thier qb is average and lucky, every big play they had, was a broken one, or a trick play, they cant outsmart anyone, they cant out talent anyone, they can beat you down, an extra 1-2 guys on the pile, twice as many hits wears a player down, mentally and physically. if your a runnig back, your gonna run the ball 20 times(for hits and grins) your gonna get tackled by 1-2 guys, thats 20-40 hits a game, lets say 30 for fun.. if the steelers are hitting you, slowly tackling so you can get hit again, people diving over the pile knicking it but looking like they are trying to avoid you, if your getting hit by 1-2 extra people in each play, thats twice as many hits in each game, if your a WR and make a catch and 2 guys tackle you, hold you down and stand up on top of you and drag thier crotch against your helpmet all stopping you from getting up, its going to play a mental and physical effect on you, not to mention the furstration of it not quite being a penalty, and if it was, the blind eye the refs show "cause its just hard nosed football right?" why do you think they preech and proclaim to be hard nosed and punch you in the mouth football? because they cant out talent you, they cant out smart you, so they are going to cheap shot you, like porter hoping up after the sack of manning and stepping on his ankle, but he was looking forward so it must be an accident right? please, they paly dirty from start to finish, and unless your straight out talenting them(which 5 teams did with ease) they will be successful, it cant last forever, only so many league saving all pro QB's or WR, or RB can get injured before the foot is put down and all the calls are going against them, will the officials of the league make up for the BS in the playoffs with some opposing calls for other teams this season? can you imagine the mental breakdown the brybaby steelers players will have? can you imagine a questionable call going against ward? he may just very well shit his pants... he bitches enough as it is...christ

or is it the officials dont want to hear the bitching from the pittsburgh thugs all game so they get a few calls extra thier way and the steelers just play..

who knows.. but next year will be a great year...

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='214763' date='Feb 6 2006, 02:53 PM'][size=3][u][b]4 step plan to a Championship [/u] [/size]

Step 1 - Injure the Games Best QB who shreaded your team previously

Step 2 - Play a distracted coach who a week earlier was giving a Eulogy for his teenage son who killed himself
[u]
[b][i]Step 3 - Play a Plummer who instead of a QB .... should really be a Plumber[/i][/b][/u]

Step 4 - Have the Refs spot you 25 points by taking away 3 opposing TD's and giving you one instead of the FG you deserve [/b][/quote]


That step u forgot something. They got to play a team who was using their 4th string RB, plus the shitty QB.

[TheBZ]

[quote name='cwing' post='214770' date='Feb 6 2006, 03:04 PM']How does Pitt take teams out of their game plans and frustrates them to the point that they play Pitts game?

Everyone wants a 2nd shot at them. Everyone thinks they can beat them. Everyuone thinks that they beat themselves and Pitt did not actually beat them.

Pitt has holes everywhere but no one seems to exploit them. Basially, they force you to implode.
How??? Why???

Watching that game yesturday was just like watching Bengals PItt one and Bengals Pitt playoff game.[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, and I think this is a good topic.

I think it is all about dictating the tone and having supreme confidence in your scheme/gameplan.

You're right in that the game we won was when we finally pressed the issue, dictated the tone, and took the game to a place where they DID NOT want it to go.

Alot of their dictation comes from the zone blitzing on D and controlling the personnel on the field...And frankly, we were really one of few teams this season who showed the talent and coordination to dictate to their Defense and wear them out personnel-wise.

So...I think the way to beat them is just the way we did it...And the way Seattle was trying to do it. Penalties aside, Seattle just didn't have the practice put in to execute No Huddle, or have the versatility on Offense to go to Shotgun, etc. (No shotgun in West Coast?)

You play them hard and fast...Stifle their personnel changes, and attack them through the air. You alter your blocking schemes and worry less about them attacking on D, because you are the one attacking.

On Defense...You have to shut down the run (which Seattle effectively did - I think the Parker run had a hold that was one of the worst calls - Without that run, their Run O only has about 50 yards all game)...And force Roethlisberger to keep moving and throwing it on the run. The guy will get the occasional first down (as he did against Seattle) and even make some good throws...But eventually, you will force the possibility of interception, and make them go back to the Run (to settle Ben down) when they don't want to.

That's about all I can say on that...And the only thing I can think to compare it to is tennis...Where the player consistently forcing the ball and directing the play (from the backcourt or net) will eventually cause the other person to wear out, or to try to force a shot when they don't want to.

We won because we forced Pitt to take shots when they didn't want to...And Seattle was doing the same (Ben's 22.6 rating)...But those penalties at key points didn't allow their plan to fully succeed.

BZ

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='cwing' post='214751' date='Feb 6 2006, 02:34 PM']Fix or not, these guys got it done---------HOW ???

They are the team that everyone comes away from saying, "if we played them again we would kill them". "We should have beaten them", "we beat ourselves, they didn't beat us". "If we did this, if we did that". "We should have done this, we could have done that". So how can they keep doing this? What is it that they do to teams that are better than they are. How do they frustrate teams and makes them play Pitt game?

Why, why, why????????????? and how do we get some ?????

Barring the fix, what are the reasons they won this thing? (note---the fix was on for Pitt to lose to Indy but they overcame).[/quote]


Good question. I hate the Steelers, but I like what they do. They're one of the best branded products going and they've been that way for a long time. They're a football team - not a community service organization, although I'm sure they play the NFL P/R game like the rest of them - not a band of "entertainers" like Chad Johnson - a FOOTBALL team. Some teams collect "athletes," they collect football players. They've been doing the same thing the same way for a long time. They're all about consistency if nothing else, and in a grind like football, consistency always gives you a chance to come out on top by making it less likely that you'll eliminate yourself before the other guy does.

One of their guys talked before the game about Cowher telling them that they could never know how a game would unfold, which is why they had to play hard every play to give themselves a chance of being in on the three or four plays that turn the tide of the game. That's what they do. Their personnel isn't usually that great on paper any more, but they focus and they understand that the game is a grind. so they're prepared to adapt and adjust and control their emotions.

That also means that you see some personalities around Pittsburgh over the years that you don't too much see around Cincinnati. Can you really imagine a Joe Greene or L.C. Greenwood or Mel Blount or Dwight White playing long-term in Cincinnati? I can't imagine one of them being here for long, let alone all of them - especially in the era in which they played. Even some of the guys that have helped make them successful in later years would never fit in in Cincinnati - and these are the kind of guys that help them keep their cool under pressure.

The only thing that they might try to keep secret about what they do is the way they work the refs. They get calls because they cry all the time like George "Crybaby" Cannon. Other than that, they tell you what they do - play hard-nosed defense, have a versatile quarterback (which they actually have now), and have good running backs. This always keeps them reasonably competitive when they have a pedestrian passing game, and when the passing game gets some stretch to it, like they have now, they can keep up with the thoroughbreds just well enough to go deep in the playoffs.

The Steelers built their basic identity in a relatively short time though. I remember when they were a shitty joke of a team with pussy-looking yellow helmets that won 1 game in a season. They started to get better like the Bengals and then they exploded with the Steel Curtain image and all that - physical defense, running game and eventually a versatile quarterback. During the period between their heyday and now, they've always been the same kind of team, with maybe greater holes in talent, but they established a brand of football based on fundamental aspects of football and stuck to it. That's what the Bengals need to do.

I don't know that the Bengals should think in terms of trying to out-Steeler the Steelers. There are differences in the organizations and in the towns. Maybe a combination of what the Steelers do and the 49ers in their prime might be more the Bengals' style - kind of a redneck version of the Jerry Rice era Niners. But the fans and the players need to be less Mickey-Mouse oriented and more oriented toward demanding football-focus and a businesslike attitude toward executing the physical aspects of football on the field if they want to see the Bengals give the Steelers the ass-kicking they deserve on a consistent basis.

Until then, take notes, 'cause as sour a taste as it leaves in my mouth, the Steelers are the quintessential pro-football product.

[TheBZ]

Coy...

I really like the branding angle you took on the Steelers...I can completely buy that.

I also agree that we need to develop our own brand - so to speak...And I believe that has been happening over the past 3 years.

As for what it should be...I think it should fit a 'tiger'.

Agressive, fast, alert, relentless, attacking...Those things are already showing up on the field...Where we lack is having enough of those aforementioned archetypal 'figures' to keep on the program.

I think Carson Palmer was on his way to picking up that more agressive edge; and it has showed in some of his recent interviews/comments.

There was also a recent article mentioned about Marvin pushing 'leadership' on Chad Johnson...And if you remember, I think that was one of the keys that was pressed on Dillon right from the beginning, as far as addressing the media with the Bengals 'brand' in mind.

I hope that David Pollack can grow into that kind of role on D...Because I believe that is what Marvin wants...And it certainly couldn't hurt to pick up a few more 'tigers' in this off-season.

BZ

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='TheBZ' post='214942' date='Feb 6 2006, 08:32 PM']Coy...

I really like the branding angle you took on the Steelers...I can completely buy that.

I also agree that we need to develop our own brand - so to speak...And I believe that has been happening over the past 3 years.

As for what it should be...I think it should fit a 'tiger'.

Agressive, fast, alert, relentless, attacking...Those things are already showing up on the field...Where we lack is having enough of those aforementioned archetypal 'figures' to keep on the program.

I think Carson Palmer was on his way to picking up that more agressive edge; and it has showed in some of his recent interviews/comments.

There was also a recent article mentioned about Marvin pushing 'leadership' on Chad Johnson...And if you remember, I think that was one of the keys that was pressed on Dillon right from the beginning, as far as addressing the media with the Bengals 'brand' in mind.

I hope that David Pollack can grow into that kind of role on D...Because I believe that is what Marvin wants...And it certainly couldn't hurt to pick up a few more 'tigers' in this off-season.

BZ[/quote]

"Leadership" where Chad is concerned is a euphemism for "grow up you big baby." What a team like the Bengals lacks is leadership from a linebacker or a saftety - somebody that hits and gets hit every play and puts people on the ground. You've got some of that from the more cerebral side on the OL and the QB, but they need to fill in the defense with some studs that can physically man-handle some people while setting a [b]disciplined [/b] as well as aggressive tone.

That includes being able to earn enough respect that when it's time to tell Chad to shut the fuck up and strap it on, it gets done. I can't help but think of a team that needs leadership from Chad Johnson as suffering from a critical lack of leadership elsewhere. Chad's just a kid that you leave out on the perimiter and let do his thing until you have to reign him in. You've got to have some ballers on the defense to have the proper balance.

[BengalBeotch]

[quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='214781' date='Feb 6 2006, 08:26 PM'][quote name='cwing' post='214770' date='Feb 6 2006, 03:04 PM']
I agree with all the above. However, not the conversation I was hoping for.



How does Pitt take teams out of their game plans and frustrates them to the point that they play Pitts game?

Everyone wants a 2nd shot at them. Everyone thinks they can beat them. Everyuone thinks that they beat themselves and Pitt did not actually beat them.

Pitt has holes everywhere but no one seems to exploit them.

Basially, they force you to implode.

How??? Why???

Watching that game yesturday was just like watching Bengals PItt one and Bengals Pitt playoff game.

Even today I feel Seattle is better than Pitt, Indy is better than Pitt, Denver is better than Pitt and Cincy is far far better than Pitt. However, Pitt is the SB Champs. Pitt did not win those games, they frustrated teams into losing them.......How ??? Why ???[/quote]
Part of it is confidence and intimidation. The Cheaters always go out there, spew their filth, and get into other people's heads. Instead of the other team playing and sticking to their gameplan, they go out and try to show up the bastards. that force4s them into mistakes, and before you know it, they've lost the game and are crying about wantin a second chance. The time we beat them, we were the ones doing the intimidation and the shit talk, forcing them to play our game. We fell into that same trap the first time around, and we were all set to put foot to ass in the third go=round.
[/quote]


well said Danville!!

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='TheBZ' post='214849' date='Feb 6 2006, 05:01 PM'][quote name='cwing' post='214770' date='Feb 6 2006, 03:04 PM']
How does Pitt take teams out of their game plans and frustrates them to the point that they play Pitts game?

Everyone wants a 2nd shot at them. Everyone thinks they can beat them. Everyuone thinks that they beat themselves and Pitt did not actually beat them.

Pitt has holes everywhere but no one seems to exploit them. Basially, they force you to implode.
How??? Why???

Watching that game yesturday was just like watching Bengals PItt one and Bengals Pitt playoff game.[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, and I think this is a good topic.

I think it is all about dictating the tone and having supreme confidence in your scheme/gameplan.

You're right in that the game we won was when we finally pressed the issue, dictated the tone, and took the game to a place where they DID NOT want it to go.

Alot of their dictation comes from the zone blitzing on D and controlling the personnel on the field...And frankly, we were really one of few teams this season who showed the talent and coordination to dictate to their Defense and wear them out personnel-wise.

So...I think the way to beat them is just the way we did it...And the way Seattle was trying to do it. Penalties aside, Seattle just didn't have the practice put in to execute No Huddle, or have the versatility on Offense to go to Shotgun, etc. (No shotgun in West Coast?)

You play them hard and fast...Stifle their personnel changes, and attack them through the air. You alter your blocking schemes and worry less about them attacking on D, because you are the one attacking.

On Defense...You have to shut down the run (which Seattle effectively did - I think the Parker run had a hold that was one of the worst calls - Without that run, their Run O only has about 50 yards all game)...And force Roethlisberger to keep moving and throwing it on the run. The guy will get the occasional first down (as he did against Seattle) and even make some good throws...But eventually, you will force the possibility of interception, and make them go back to the Run (to settle Ben down) when they don't want to.

That's about all I can say on that...And the only thing I can think to compare it to is tennis...Where the player consistently forcing the ball and directing the play (from the backcourt or net) will eventually cause the other person to wear out, or to try to force a shot when they don't want to.

We won because we forced Pitt to take shots when they didn't want to...And Seattle was doing the same (Ben's 22.6 rating)...But those penalties at key points didn't allow their plan to fully succeed.

BZ
[/quote]

This is all true, but you can't accomplish this when you need to without having built for it in your personnel make-up and without having established the fundamental principles that allow you to do this in the core of your organizational culture.

Take the Bengals, as far as where they were at the end of this year. Willie Anderson talked about guys' eyes getting big after the Detroit game when ML talked about having the opportunity to play 7 more weeks of football. You could see it when they dropped the Buffalo game, and ML recognized it after the Pittsburgh game, because he talked about getting rid of the guys that don't want to play that long of a season. Football has only been the primary focus during the recent history of the bengals for 3 years. How long that continues and how far it goes depends on the same thing that brought about the change in focus - consumer demand for good FOOTBALL product.

[TheBZ]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='214951' date='Feb 6 2006, 08:45 PM']"Leadership" where Chad is concerned is a euphemism for "grow up you big baby." What a team like the Bengals lacks is leadership from a linebacker or a saftety - somebody that hits and gets hit every play and puts people on the ground. You've got some of that from the more cerebral side on the OL and the QB, but they need to fill in the defense with some studs that can physically man-handle some people while setting a [b]disciplined [/b] as well as aggressive tone.

That includes being able to earn enough respect that when it's time to tell Chad to shut the fuck up and strap it on, it gets done. I can't help but think of a team that needs leadership from Chad Johnson as suffering from a critical lack of leadership elsewhere. Chad's just a kid that you leave out on the perimiter and let do his thing until you have to reign him in. You've got to have some ballers on the defense to have the proper balance.[/quote]

I 100% agree.

Good stuff.

BZ

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='214781' date='Feb 6 2006, 03:26 PM'][quote name='cwing' post='214770' date='Feb 6 2006, 03:04 PM']
I agree with all the above. However, not the conversation I was hoping for.



How does Pitt take teams out of their game plans and frustrates them to the point that they play Pitts game?

Everyone wants a 2nd shot at them. Everyone thinks they can beat them. Everyuone thinks that they beat themselves and Pitt did not actually beat them.

Pitt has holes everywhere but no one seems to exploit them.

Basially, they force you to implode.

How??? Why???

Watching that game yesturday was just like watching Bengals PItt one and Bengals Pitt playoff game.

Even today I feel Seattle is better than Pitt, Indy is better than Pitt, Denver is better than Pitt and Cincy is far far better than Pitt. However, Pitt is the SB Champs. Pitt did not win those games, they frustrated teams into losing them.......How ??? Why ???[/quote]
Part of it is confidence and intimidation. The Cheaters always go out there, spew their filth, and get into other people's heads. Instead of the other team playing and sticking to their gameplan, they go out and try to show up the bastards. that force4s them into mistakes, and before you know it, they've lost the game and are crying about wantin a second chance. The time we beat them, we were the ones doing the intimidation and the shit talk, forcing them to play our game. We fell into that same trap the first time around, and we were all set to put foot to ass in the third go=round.
[/quote]


If Seattle, Indy, Denver or Cincinnati were better than Pittsburgh this year, they had the chance to show it.

People whine about cheating. Did you cheat back?!!! What the fuck is this shit?!!!

Did you ever see the games the Eagles and Skins had when Wilbert Montgomery was playing? Or the wars the Cowboys and Skins used to have? What about the Oilers and the Browns or the Browns and the Steelers? The old "Black and Blue" NFC Central? I think they actually had brass knuckles and knives on the field when the Bears and Lions used to play. The Giants were reputed to have plenty of "class" back in the Sam Huff days when they'd pick a man and a body part and work on it all game long. And I haven't even got to the wars between the Steelers and the Raiders that made Chuck Noll call his own safety part of the "criminal element" in football.

The Bengals had a reputation of being "soft" in those days, and all this whining is soft now. Even the namby-pamby Bengals, when they got themselves together and went somewhere, developed a nasty streak and from time to time put people that were giving them hell out of games. I'm sure people whined about them "cheating" too.

The simple fact of life is that in most sports, champions cheat. If you want to be a champion, quit whining, grow some stones so you can concentrate on your job when somebody tries to fuck you up, and learn how to cheat right with 'em. It also doesn't hurt to cry to the refs about the other guy's dirty play right after you've kneed him in the kidney. That way, if he's got enough energy left to come after you, the ref will be tipped off.

[DanvilleBengal]

This is growing to be an excellent topic, and I commend everyone for channelling their hatred for the Cheaters into thought-provoking responses on how they get the job done.

Now I think it was Coy that put out that the Cheaters play a "brand" of football. I think I agree 100% with that viewpoint. I think this is what Marvin means when he says that he is making the Bengals into the image of the Cheaters and the Ravens. Both of those teams, as much as we hate to admit, are sound in their fundamentals, and they steadily desire to attack and dictate to the other side what they are going to do. Both those teams are physical, and they have that mentality that they are going to crush you into the dirt and that you are going to like it.

I believe everyone knows what a Bengal tiger is---a majestic animal of exquisite beauty, and at the same time, an animal that is cunning and unafraid to attack to defend its turf. I am beginning to see that with our football team. We have the beauty in our offense--crisp throws, great runs, sharp routes. WE are starting to develop the agressiveness and cunning of the Bengal Tiger in the way that our offense loves to attack and push the ball down the field, but more so in our defense, where we have so many ball hawks on the field at the same time. And the cunning is slowly being formed, because I noticed how later on when the defense actually appeared to regress, our defense were able to put looks on the field that even some of us on here were unable to deduce what they were doing, and it resulted in a big play for the defense. The pick of Culpepper by Tory comes to mind, when Keiwan faked the blitz, and Culpepper threw it right into that area.

WE have already established that we are going to be a smart, agressive football team that isn't afraid to take risk, but at the same time, we are going to outwork the other team, be better prepared, and be more sound in techniques, fundamentals, and recognition. The foundation has been laid, and it's only a matter of time before we get to see the finished product. What we say this season in our team was a revelation of what's to come. I am quite pissed that the Cheaters were given the Superbowl, but at the same time, I laugh at them, because I know that that Lombardi is the last one the Cheaters are going to see in a long time.

WHO-DEY

[TheBZ]

[quote name='Coy Bacon' post='214966' date='Feb 6 2006, 09:38 PM']If Seattle, Indy, Denver or Cincinnati were better than Pittsburgh this year, they had the chance to show it.

People whine about cheating. Did you cheat back?!!! What the fuck is this shit?!!!

Did you ever see the games the Eagles and Skins had when Wilbert Montgomery was playing? Or the wars the Cowboys and Skins used to have? What about the Oilers and the Browns or the Browns and the Steelers? The old "Black and Blue" NFC Central? I think they actually had brass knuckles and knives on the field when the Bears and Lions used to play. The Giants were reputed to have plenty of "class" back in the Sam Huff days when they'd pick a man and a body part and work on it all game long. And I haven't even got to the wars between the Steelers and the Raiders that made Chuck Noll call his own safety part of the "criminal element" in football.

The Bengals had a reputation of being "soft" in those days, and all this whining is soft now. Even the namby-pamby Bengals, when they got themselves together and went somewhere, developed a nasty streak and from time to time put people that were giving them hell out of games. I'm sure people whined about them "cheating" too.

The simple fact of life is that in most sports, champions cheat. If you want to be a champion, quit whining, grow some stones so you can concentrate on your job when somebody tries to fuck you up, and learn how to cheat right with 'em. It also doesn't hurt to cry to the refs about the other guy's dirty play right after you've kneed him in the kidney. That way, if he's got enough energy left to come after you, the ref will be tipped off.[/quote]

You had me with you for a bunch of these posts...But I think you're losing me here.

I'm all for being rough and aggressive...and I would love to see an added edge and intimidation.

But I couldn't and wouldn't advocate the whining and kneeing people in the kidneys. I think that's bullshit...And if that's the underbelly of football, then I'd much rather see hockey where you can drop the gloves and go toe-to-toe with a guy who would do that to you.

Maybe that's just me, because I was raised on hockey...But I would play my ass off out there, until the point that stuff started happening. Then, I would be wading into the opposing bench for a full-out brawl.

Hell...Those things usually even out personnel-wise...So it could be worth it to make a statement.

Kneeing someone in the kidneys is a punk move...Punching them in the face just says..."Let's play".

BZ

PS. The above statement is probably why I led the high school basketball league in technical fouls...A very short career, to say the least.

[Guest Claptonrocks]

Steeler footbal is about running the ball and stopping the run...
very simple philosophy....
Ravens adhere to the same principal....

It seems to work in the AFCN and takes them well into the playoffs.
both teams have loud obnoxious ( to opponents ) players that get their team in Fighting spirit which carries onto the field..
Joey Porter and Ray Lewis define what a hardnosed team is all about, by the words, actions and the players buy into it...

Pittsburgh and Baltimore are old blue collar meat and potatoe cities.
the team takes on that personna as well.. Its about beating you in the trenches year in year out....

Cincinnati seems to want to play Indy type ball.. Air it out and outscore you..

I think the Bengal philosophy will change to incorporate the defensive trench wars.. Its has to or we'll be looking at quick exits if we even get to the playoffs...

Dont unerestimate Cowher... He's tough and relentless...hate him all you want but the man gets his players is a frenzy mode when they hit the field.... Hopefully some of that rubbed off on Marvin and his staff..

[|Lucid|]

I have to disagree with you Coy...

Champions do not have to cheat to become champions... However, cheationg is an effective way of making a chump into a champion.

I guess you can make the argument that a true champion refuses to lose at any cost, and thus is willing to do what it takes to beat his opponent.

I say I true champion, after losing to the cheater, pulls themsleves up, looks down deep, and finds the way to make themselves better, and to learn forom the experience. So that next time, the cheater will not succeed.

You have the Raiders, and then you have the Cowboys (Landry).

I am not trying to say that football is a game for boy scouts and choir boys. But there is a difference between pushing the envelope of what is legal (NE's DB's the past few years) and down right cheating.

Some people love the Raiders, and the thuggish "win at all costs, honor means nothing" attitude.

But that doesn't mean that is the only way to get there. There is still class to be found in the NFL.. I will stick with the way Paul Brown invisioned it.

[Guest OzBengal]

I'm really not buying all this 'branding' and philosophy stuff. Pittsburgh just made some good calls and got lucky. They really did not play that well but it was enough to beat what was on the field. I really don't think they provide some kind of 'model' that all teams should be aspiring to. Lets look at their scores, which essentially all came off big plays. 1 was off a long run as a result of a missed assignment by the linebacker/safety. You put that one on the defense. Big Ben's phantom TD came after a hail mary pass he threw across the field that should have been picked off but the DB lost his footing. And the other was the trick play. Trick plays shouldnt work but they had a backup safety on the field who bit on it. As Bengals fans we all know what thats like. Most of the time, their offense struggled but they came up with the big play either through sheer luck or a good playcall from OC Ken Whisenhunt. It was just their time. They were the most consistent team left standing while their opponents essentially beat themselves.