Repeater Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 So... because your QB has only 1 decent season... you want to use that. When we're talking 'Career' here fellas, it's 2 or 3 seasons. We're not talking about Drew Bledsoe or Steve McNair. I'd say you are the one trying to use a specific range of numbers to support YOUR argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 dude, carson has been wining at all levels. he was doing it in High school, college, and he's doing it in the pros. now don't get me wrong, he doesn't have a superbowl ring yet, and his level in the nfl is in the top 3 of qb's. you can not knock on carson, he is a golden child. now i'll admit for the first time, i really think that big ben can play, but he needs to pass the ball more often to prove that he's an all around qb, and him trying to switch to no huddle might show what he's about. if he does well at it, then you guys are straigt, if he starts throwing mad interceptions, then go back to what you guys do best and just run the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278866' date='Jun 7 2006, 01:25 PM']So... because your QB has only 1 decent season... you want to use that. When we're talking 'Career' here fellas, it's 2 or 3 seasons. We're not talking about Drew Bledsoe or Steve McNair. I'd say you are the one trying to use a specific range of numbers to support YOUR argument.[/quote] 2-3 seasons is not a career either, 'tard! At the end of both QB's career we'll see...and you know it. This asshole is a perfect specimen for BJ's "cleansing" All aboard the gas train... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278866' date='Jun 7 2006, 01:25 PM']So... because your QB has only 1 decent season... you want to use that. When we're talking 'Career' here fellas, it's 2 or 3 seasons. We're not talking about Drew Bledsoe or Steve McNair. I'd say you are the one trying to use a specific range of numbers to support YOUR argument.[/quote] Jebus... 1 decenct season?!? He's only been on the field for 2 years. Is this really that tough to understand? Here this is Troy Aikmans stats (and I use Aikman because thats who palmer has been compared to) [url="http://members.aol.com/bluekate/troybio_stats.htm"]http://members.aol.com/bluekate/troybio_stats.htm[/url] If you take the 1st year here he had a 55.7 rating, 9TDs and 18INTs Are you seriously going to even attempt to tell me Turdburgerler is better than Aikman? How about someone who we probabally could agree is the best QB in the game today. Payton Manning. [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531"]http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531[/url] He had a 71.2 rating 26TDs and 28 INTs. [b]PLEASE[/b] dont tell me you think that Ben is on the level of Manning? You have to throw out the 1st year because they are never indicative of what a QB really is about. But hey if Ben really does get to run the no huddle and pass more this year, perhaps that will settle this absurd debate. Or hell you could take a look at my sig and see what Ben himself had to say about it. But hey go ahead and tell me again about "carreer". Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repeater Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 So... You want to throw out his first(second) year because it was his first year starting and therefore he couldn't have played well... Then you want to count his second(third) year because he played really well... Ok... So Roethlisberger's 2nd year rating was 98.6 for the season... Palmers 2nd(3rd) year rating was 101.1 for the season... A whopping 2.5 point difference. Now, since your team is enjoying the success of Rudi Johnson, season rushing career holder for the Bengals, that must mean your running game is not struggling... Since your team is enjoying the fine play of Chad Johnson, who has been among the top receivers in the league for the last couple years, you clearly have tremendous talent at the receiver position... So why exactly is it... that Ben Roethlisberger who does NOT have that kind of talent at the running back position, or apparently at the receiver position and who is such a TERRIBLE quarterback is able to put up a season QB rating that is merely 2.5 pts behind what many of you believe is the greatest quarterback ever to grip a football... 2.5 pts over a whole season... That's CRAZY HUGE! Dear GOD, how could 2.5 pts over a season even be made up? It's such an earth-shattering chasm... a gulf if you will that no mere mortal could possibly conceive the mind-bending statsitical hyperbole that is required to begin to explain it. 2.5 pts... Dear God, it may as well be... 2.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278899' date='Jun 7 2006, 02:37 PM']So... You want to throw out his first(second) year because it was his first year starting and therefore he couldn't have played well... Then you want to count his second(third) year because he played really well... Ok... So Roethlisberger's 2nd year rating was 98.6 for the season... Palmers 2nd(3rd) year rating was 101.1 for the season... A whopping 2.5 point difference. Now, since your team is enjoying the success of Rudi Johnson, season rushing career holder for the Bengals, that must mean your running game is not struggling... Since your team is enjoying the fine play of Chad Johnson, who has been among the top receivers in the league for the last couple years, you clearly have tremendous talent at the receiver position... [b]So why exactly is it... that Ben Roethlisberger who does NOT have that kind of talent at the running back position, or apparently at the receiver position [/b] and who is such a TERRIBLE quarterback is able to put up a season QB rating that is merely 2.5 pts behind what many of you believe is the greatest quarterback ever to grip a football... 2.5 pts over a whole season... That's CRAZY HUGE! Dear GOD, how could 2.5 pts over a season even be made up? It's such an earth-shattering chasm... a gulf if you will that no mere mortal could possibly conceive the mind-bending statsitical hyperbole that is required to begin to explain it. 2.5 pts... Dear God, it may as well be... 2.7[/quote] You said it not me. Which means Chad > Hines and Rudi > Parker/fat fuck bettis (Since YOU said it) Now as far as the numbers... do I have to now explain Pass to Run ratio? This was posted by one of our posters earlier today. He explains it pretty damn well so Ill borrow it from him. [quote]I will use 23 attempts per game as the benchmark because that is the average attempts for Ben for his career (689 attempts in 31G not including XL = 22.23, rounding up to 23) Ben has lost 5 times (career 26-5 not including XL) He has 23 or more attempts in 4 of those 5 losses. 7 of the 26 wins came when Ben threw more than 23 times. Therefore Ben with more than his average 23 attempts per game is 7-4 compared to a record of 19-1 when he attempts 22 or less passes. running the no huddle increases the # of pass attempts in the game because as was talked about it makes no sense to run in the no huddle. Go ahead Ben-if you run it (no-huddle) they (intros) will come...[/quote] So you see we here in Bengalland [b]HOPE TO GOD[/b] he passes more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repeater Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 So... Why don't you guys run more so you can win some big games...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repeater Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 And of course, you are factoring in the fact the pissburgh is a ball-control team... So the only time we would panic and start throwing the ball around is if we were... way way behind. Which... may lead to a loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Is this guy seriously trying to argue that ben is a better qb? I don't no who would have qualified to be the QB on last year's team...Randel El or Worthlessburger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278912' date='Jun 7 2006, 02:52 PM']So... Why don't you guys run more so you can win some big games...?[/quote] Hell Ill agree with you on a point you made earlier, Rudi was beating the hell out of your D in that 1st game last year, and for some unexplainable reason Brat stopped using him, dont ask me why I dont know. One would think if he didnt there might be the chance that we pull two wins on you. Who knows, not me. That said though when you guys get a QB that is capeable of passing the ball like Palmer does and some WRs that are capeable of what Chad is, (remember you said Chad is better than Ward) youll understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278914' date='Jun 7 2006, 02:53 PM']And of course, you are factoring in the fact the pissburgh is a ball-control team... So the only time we would panic and start throwing the ball around is if we were... way way behind. Which... may lead to a loss...[/quote] Well duh. That's kind of my point here genius. Ben hasnt been asked to do what Palmer has, he hasnt had to come back from games in the manner in which Palmer has (that ravens game 2 years ago comes to mind). If you want to tell me because thats because your D is better than ours, you wolnt get any disagreements here. Hell when you run two backup safties, two rookie linebackers, one DE that is playing at a heavy weight than he did previously and his first full year at the position, and all of the players on that line playing a new position, and under a new coordinator that tends to happen. HOWEVER things are getting better on that side of the ball, Adams and Jackson add are quality additions, having a healthy Madieu back will be helpfull as well. EXPECT things to improve for us on that side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repeater Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 And yes... when that happens (Defense becomes more consistent) I expect the Bengals to take the step to the next level. And while Roethlisberger has not often been asked to come back or win games from far behind, he has done it... I would also point out that the stealers came up with quite a different plan in the playoffs regarding the offensive strategy. Roethlisberger threw quite a bit in the opening halves of those games and with the unfortunate exception of the Superbowl, he did very well. So, you're absolutely right. Time will tell how well Ben can handle the pressure of increased passes in a game, however I feel pretty comfortable that he'll do a fine job. He may never be the greatest passing QB in the world, but he does win. Like him or not, Roethlisberger has a knack for coming up with big plays at big moments even if he hasn't played terribly well up to that point. I just think it's exciting that the AFC North has a couple of talented QB's and with McNair coming in, there will be a good deal of veteran talent as well. As usual... the Browns languish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278944' date='Jun 7 2006, 03:23 PM']And yes... when that happens (Defense becomes more consistent) I expect the Bengals to take the step to the next level. And while Roethlisberger has not often been asked to come back or win games from far behind, he has done it... I would also point out that the stealers came up with quite a different plan in the playoffs regarding the offensive strategy. Roethlisberger threw quite a bit in the opening halves of those games and with the unfortunate exception of the Superbowl, he did very well. So, you're absolutely right. Time will tell how well Ben can handle the pressure of increased passes in a game, however I feel pretty comfortable that he'll do a fine job. He may never be the greatest passing QB in the world, but he does win. Like him or not, Roethlisberger has a knack for coming up with big plays at big moments even if he hasn't played terribly well up to that point. I just think it's exciting that the AFC North has a couple of talented QB's and with McNair coming in, there will be a good deal of veteran talent as well. As usual... the Browns languish.[/quote] I think the Browns may supprise some this year. Frankly after the NFC East, we are probabally the 2nd toughest division. And one might even be able to argue that with the AFC being pretty much superior to the NFC, we might have the toughest division in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repeater Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 I was merely talking about the QB position. Clearly Cleveland is trying to load up across the boards. However, dragging in tons of FA talent does not always equate success. I don't think Frye is quite there yet, but he could surprise me. Word is Boller is ready for a breakout season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 every year boller is ready for a breakout season, the dude stinks, i think charlie frye is a better qb than boller. he's gone after this season along with his head coach, mark my words on that. but as far as carson and roethlesberger, this year we'll be able to tell more since it's their third year/4th year as starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='278985' date='Jun 7 2006, 04:31 PM']I was merely talking about the QB position. Clearly Cleveland is trying to load up across the boards. However, dragging in tons of FA talent does not always equate success. I don't think Frye is quite there yet, but he could surprise me. [b]Word is Boller is ready for a breakout season![/b][/quote] And you think you can see QB talent in Bendover... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] Wait...Wait...oh... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repeater Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [i]sarcasm[/i] Believe me... Nobody loves Kyle Boller at QB for the Ravens more than Steeler fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Joker Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='Repeater' post='279288' date='Jun 8 2006, 10:28 AM'][i]sarcasm[/i] Believe me... Nobody loves Kyle Boller at QB for the Ravens more than Steeler fans.[/quote] I didn't recognize it...are you being sarcastic when you talk about Bendover too? If so..welcome to the board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oftt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 The problem with throwing out the QB's first year numbers is that Palmer doesnt have any. He started as a second year QB. So if you throw out both QB's first year numbers....Palmer still has a lifetime QB rating of 90.2, but Ben's moves up to 98.6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='oftt' post='279333' date='Jun 8 2006, 11:41 AM']The problem with throwing out the QB's first year numbers is that Palmer doesnt have any. He started as a second year QB. So if you throw out both QB's first year numbers....Palmer still has a lifetime QB rating of 90.2, but Ben's moves up to 98.6.[/quote] OMG REALLY?!?! Even though Carson probably has a season more of pass attempts then worthlessburger? Get over it man...Carson is the better QB. Ben doesn't do shit...hasn't had to do shit. He used to have a top 10 back in the nfl ever in fat fuck bettis and Duce and that fast guy. He hands it off and watches the play. Then his defense can actually go out and stop the run. Ben isn't going to make a 21 point come back to a top 5 defense in the nfl. He isn't made to do that. If Ben expands his role...he will most likely throw more interceptions and you will watch that 98.6 plummet and fall and keep falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oftt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='JC' post='279337' date='Jun 8 2006, 11:46 AM']OMG REALLY?!?! Even though Carson probably has a season more of pass attempts then worthlessburger? Get over it man...Carson is the better QB. Ben doesn't do shit...hasn't had to do shit. He used to have a top 10 back in the nfl ever in fat fuck fat fuck bettis and Duce and that fast guy. He hands it off and watches the play. Then his defense can actually go out and stop the run. Ben isn't going to make a 21 point come back to a top 5 defense in the nfl. He isn't made to do that. If Ben expands his role...he will most likely throw more interceptions and you will watch that 98.6 plummet and fall and keep falling.[/quote] Palmer may be a better passer, but he is not a better QB. Same deal with the Peyton and Bradyargument of the past 3 years. Throwing is only part of leading the team. I am glad you guys like your QB. Personally I would rather take the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='oftt' post='279341' date='Jun 8 2006, 11:52 AM']Palmer may be a better passer, [b]but he is not a better QB.[/b] Same deal with the Peyton and Bradyargument of the past 3 years. Throwing is only part of leading the team. I am glad you guys like your QB. Personally I would rather take the winner.[/quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] breathe [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] wipes tear [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='oftt' post='279341' date='Jun 8 2006, 11:52 AM']Palmer may be a better passer, but he is not a better QB. Same deal with the Peyton and Bradyargument of the past 3 years. Throwing is only part of leading the team. I am glad you guys like your QB. Personally I would rather take the winner.[/quote] Im saying if Pissburgh would have gotten Carson instead of Ben...they may have not lost a game yet. Maybe besides if you sat all the starters...but choose who you want...They lost fat fuck bettis and now a couple of defensive players...the browns even kicked the super bowl champs ass in offseason...they might be able to kick pissburghs ass in the real season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 [quote name='oftt' post='279333' date='Jun 8 2006, 11:41 AM']The problem with throwing out the QB's first year numbers is that Palmer doesnt have any. He started as a second year QB. So if you throw out both QB's first year numbers....Palmer still has a lifetime QB rating of 90.2, but Ben's moves up to 98.6.[/quote] 1st year playing dumbass, I'm pretty sure I was clear about saying that. [img]http://www.carlosmencia.com/imgs/carlossingle.jpg[/img] [b][size=3]"Dee dee dee"[/size][/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 why are you guys waisting your time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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