Bengals looking to replace Brad St Louis ?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Yojimbo' post='460474' date='Mar 22 2007, 10:26 AM'][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/StatlerAndWaldorf.jpg[/img]

Statler: I don't know why I bother sometimes...

Waldorf: I don't know why you bother ever.

Both: Ahhahahahahahhahaha![/quote]


GoBengals: Ahhahahahahahhahaha!

[Sox]

You can keep a guy who does nothing but long snap as long as he does it flawlessly.When he can't,he becomes a liability.

[Jason]

[quote name='Sox' post='460607' date='Mar 22 2007, 01:15 PM']You can keep a guy who does nothing but long snap as long as he does it flawlessly.When he can't,he becomes a liability.[/quote]

NOBODY does their job flawlessly 100% of the time.

Oh, and he does more than snap. He tackles too.

Brad, Kyle and Shayne are fine, I would rather not mess with the chemistry.

[Guest Patmo]

Should be no big deal and it's no knock on St.Louis.Marvin is always looking to upgrade.The Bengals and Marvin are just utilizing their time to find any player that's gives them improvement.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Jason' post='460623' date='Mar 22 2007, 01:44 PM']NOBODY does their job flawlessly 100% of the time.

Oh, and he does more than snap. He tackles too.

Brad, Kyle and Shayne are fine, I would rather not mess with the chemistry.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]True, nobody does their job flawlessly 100% of the time, but St. Louis has
shown that he folds under pressure. One could argue, that his bad snap
swung the momentum in the playoff game.

And without a doubt, St. Louis' bad snap cost the Bengals an oppurtunity to
send the game in Denver to overtime.

Marvin Lewis has always said that he will move players out of the line up when
they start costing the team games. It's time to show Bradley the door.

BTW, it's not like he is a stud as a special team tackler, anyway.
[/b][/color]

[Jason]

[quote name='sneaky' post='460673' date='Mar 22 2007, 03:06 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]True, nobody does their job flawlessly 100% of the time, but St. Louis has
shown that he folds under pressure. One could argue, that his bad snap
swung the momentum in the playoff game.

And without a doubt, St. Louis' bad snap cost the Bengals an oppurtunity to
send the game in Denver to overtime.

Marvin Lewis has always said that he will move players out of the line up when
they start costing the team games. It's time to show Bradley the door.

BTW, it's not like he is a stud as a special team tackler, anyway.
[/b][/color][/quote]

I guess we should cut Shayne too then.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Jason' post='460686' date='Mar 22 2007, 03:57 PM']I guess we should cut Shayne too then.[/quote]

I don't think we should get rid of St. Louis (although competition is a good thing, and may the best man win), but it's harder to find a Shayne Graham than it is a Brad St. Louis.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Jason' post='460686' date='Mar 22 2007, 03:57 PM']I guess we should cut Shayne too then.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I bet if Shayne didn't have such a bum as long snapper, he would have had a
better year last year. Keep the Pro-Bowler, lose the bum.[/b][/color]

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='sneaky' post='460695' date='Mar 22 2007, 04:07 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I bet if Shayne didn't have such a bum as long snapper, he would have had a
better year last year. Keep the Pro-Bowler, lose the bum.[/b][/color][/quote]

I don't think that has anything to do with how well Shayne performed last year. One extra point is all that St. Louis cost Graham. If St. Louis didn't botch anything, Shayne would have one extra point added to his total. The rest would be Shayne's or Larson's fault, not St. Louis.

But I agree, get rid of St. Louis. Bring in a guy that COULD play somewhere else (even in goal line to solely block) and contribute more to this team in any way other than long-snap. St. Louis has one job, and he failed us twice in crucial times.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Tigris' post='460766' date='Mar 22 2007, 05:02 PM']I don't think that has anything to do with how well Shayne performed last year. One extra point is all that St. Louis cost Graham. If St. Louis didn't botch anything, Shayne would have one extra point added to his total. The rest would be Shayne's or Larson's fault, not St. Louis.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I disagree. Instead of concentrating soley on kicking the ball, in the back of
Grahams' mind, was the concern if the snap was going to be good enough.

Hell, Larson probably wondered if he was going to need a fish net to catch the snap.[/b][/color]

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='sneaky' post='460770' date='Mar 22 2007, 05:07 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I disagree. Instead of concentrating soley on kicking the ball, in the back of
Grahams' mind, was the concern if the snap was going to be good enough.

Hell, Larson probably wondered if he was going to need a fish net to catch the snap.[/b][/color][/quote]
Other than the blatant fuck up in Denver, I don't recall even thinking about St. Louis before then... must of meant he had a pretty decent run before that being that was the second to last game of the season.

And you said it yourself, you don't notice the long-snapper until he screws up. Can you honestly tell me that you were thinking "oh fuck, Brad St. Louis is in the game". Maybe in the first game if you remember the prior year's FG mishap. As for myself, I was so pumped about beating up on the Chiefs, it did not occur to me once that St. Louis was going to make a bad snap.

Am I defending Brad St. Louis?

Nah...

[|Lucid|]

Honestly, I think WAY too much is being made of this whole thing really.

Up until that one goof everyone here would have told you that although it sucks to tie up a position on the rostor for a long snapper, they had no problem with St. Louis. And even if he gets replaced, so what? Reliable long snappers are a dime a dozen... How many times has anyone here said "_________ is a good team but MAN thier long snapper sucks!"

Never?

That's because it's a non issue. Either you don't notice the position, or you do and you replace the player with a new one. What's most important is that Shayne is comfortable with him.. As sneaky stated, the last thing you want Shayne thinking about before a kick is whether the snap will be good. As long as Shayne and Darrin have faith in him, I could care less who is filling that role for us.

[Phatcat]

[quote name='Lucid' post='460783' date='Mar 22 2007, 05:24 PM']Honestly, I think WAY too much is being made of this whole thing really.

Up until that one goof everyone here would have told you that although it sucks to tie up a position on the rostor for a long snapper, they had no problem with St. Louis. And even if he gets replaced, so what? Reliable long snappers are a dime a dozen... How many times has anyone here said "_________ is a good team but MAN thier long snapper sucks!"

Never?

That's because it's a non issue. Either you don't notice the position, or you do and you replace the player with a new one. What's most important is that Shayne is comfortable with him.. As Onyx stated, the last thing you want Shayne thinking about before a kick is whether the snap will be good. As long as Shayne and Darrin have faith in him, I could care less who is filling that role for us.[/quote]

Two words: [b][size=2]OFF SEASON[/size][/b]

But still interesting. I like if the Bengals are thinking outside the box a little - but at the same time don't fuck up a good thing. Also, I would not mind the Bengals going to 2 QBs. But that throws in a QB on PS or Mcneal.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Phatcat' post='460790' date='Mar 22 2007, 05:32 PM']Two words: [b][size=2]OFF SEASON[/size][/b]

But still interesting. I like if the Bengals are thinking outside the box a little - but at the same time don't fuck up a good thing. Also, I would not mind the Bengals going to 2 QBs. But that throws in a QB on PS or Mcneal.[/quote]


I agree Phat... But then agian, the long snapper spends too much time with the kicker in practice to substantially contribute in some other way... If taking the snapper away from Shayne during practice in any way decreases our success in the kicking game I would say it's not worth it.

If we are simply replacing a perfectly working part with another part of unknown quality, it's a risky trade. I think what is most important here is how Shayne feels about it. And if Darrin still has faith in him. Although it would suck to get into another pressure situation only to have St Louis remove all doubt that he is a choke artist. I keep flip floppin in my head on this one. I honestly think I don't have the information I need to really form an opinion.

As far as 2 QB's goes, I strongly agree. I have always felt that a 3rd QB is a waste. Usually they are no better than someone you could pull off the street anyway. The only benefit is that one on the roster has at least SOME familiarity with your system.. Then again, if you are down to your 3rd QB, you are in pretty deep.

[Phatcat]

[quote name='Lucid' post='460804' date='Mar 22 2007, 05:42 PM']I agree Phat... But then agian, the long snapper spends too much time with the kicker in practice to substantially contribute in some other way... If taking the snapper away from Shayne during practice in any way decreases our success in the kicking game I would say it's not worth it.

If we are simply replacing a perfectly working part with another part of unknown quality, it's a risky trade. I think what is most important here is how Shayne feels about it. And if Darrin still has faith in him. Although it would suck to get into another pressure situation only to have St Louis remove all doubt that he is a choke artist. I keep flip floppin in my head on this one. I honestly think I don't have the information I need to really form an opinion.

As far as 2 QB's goes, I strongly agree. I have always felt that a 3rd QB is a waste. Usually they are no better than someone you could pull off the street anyway. The only benefit is that one on the roster has at least SOME familiarity with your system.. Then again, if you are down to your 3rd QB, you are in pretty deep.[/quote]

I agree completely on the time a long snapper could spend away from Graham and Larson and its impact. On one hand I would like someone who could offer more in terms of the roster, but on the other hand don't mess with a true specialist. I guess (as a fan) I have just lost a little faith in Stl.

But in the end, a little competition is a good thing.

[texbengal]

[quote name='Phatcat' post='460813' date='Mar 22 2007, 05:01 PM']I agree completely on the time a long snapper could spend away from Graham and Larson and its impact. On one hand I would like someone who could offer more in terms of the roster, but on the other hand don't mess with a true specialist. I guess (as a fan) I have just lost a little faith in Stl.

But in the end, a little competition is a good thing.[/quote]

I think it's more difficult to replace a good long snapper than some think. There's a reason why the Bengals signed him to a very long contract several years ago. St. Louis is a pretty good coverage guy on STs, too. He's often downfield quicky on punt coverage. I was actually surprised to see his tackle totals (or lack of same) this past year, because it seems to me that he's in on stops quite a bit.

That said, I'm all for getting some competition in there. Zac DeOssie, for example, is a good football player. He'd be a good ST contributor (on coverage units, too), and he's also a good athlete with size who can really run - he could even be a depth player at LB. Even if he doesn't play a down on defense, he might be able to play more "teams" than St. Louis does. DeOssie's old man was a very good college player at BC who played for awhile for the Cowboys and Giants, as a long snapper and LB as well.

[lslmustang]

[quote name='Phatcat' post='460813' date='Mar 22 2007, 06:01 PM']I agree completely on the time a long snapper could spend away from Graham and Larson and its impact. On one hand I would like someone who could offer more in terms of the roster, but on the other hand don't mess with a true specialist. I guess (as a fan) I have just lost a little faith in Stl.

But in the end, a little competition is a good thing.[/quote]

St Louis was a TE AND Longsnapper before Lewis showed up and said, "ye shall be a long snapper and Special Teamer only. Focus on the long snap Brad!" So it surprises me he would want someone else to come in and do more than one job. Brad still warms up with the TE group but isn't on the depth chart there anymore since the arrival of Lewis... I'm wondering if he's changing his tune or just looking at a backup for him??? Brad it turned out was injured most of the season and since we didn't have a backup, he played hurt.
If we bring in competition, I think that would be a good thing but if he looses his job, I bet the replacement will be a long snapper number 1 and not a position player first.