ONYX's State of Bengal Nation Poll

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='ONYX' post='491353' date='May 26 2007, 02:10 AM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I just wanted to add some more perspective on the profiling thing.

I am a black male, 33 years old, I am a registered voter, earn about 60,000 a year, dont drink
or smoke, no arrests and no criminal record.

I have lived in Cincinnati my entire life, and I cant tell you how many times I have been pulled over by
the police for virtually nothing. I cant tell you how many times that I have been followed by store security,
ranging from stores in upscale neighborhoods to your local Big Lots when I have never stole anything.

It has happen to me so many times, I expect it.

When the police pull me over, I hear things like......

"Your light over your licsense plate has gone out.......where are you going, where are you coming from,
do you have any drugs in the car?"

"Your sticker on your licsense plate is crooked.......where are you going , where are you coming from,
you dont have any weapons in the car, do ya?"

I have not had a traffic ticket since 1996, yet I get stopped about 5 times a year.

I know and other minorities already know how it is here in Cincinnati.

So does Marvin.

Cincinnati does not operate like New York, Chicago or Atlanta. Cincinnati is like Mayberry compared
to those places. As if Larry Flynt, Maplethorpe, Marge Schott and the Timothy Thomas riots was not
proof already.

I already know this, So does Marvin. So what does this got to do with the players you ask?
These players are extremely young, and young people have a tendency to do stupid things. Now if you
factor in that a lot of these players didn't have the same kind of stable upbringing and parenting like
a lot of us here have been fortunate to have........

AND

the fact they dont have the financial restrictions that would prevent them from doing ill advised things.....

AND

the fact that these players are not from Cincinnati and do not have any idea how the police or city
operate here.

One can understand better where Marvin is coming from.

Also, his interview the other day was unfortunate because for once, Marvin was "keeping it real", and
he got blasted for it. I promise you now, if you thought Marvin did not say much or did not open up before,
you have seen nothing yet. For now on, Marvin's words will be even shorter and even more measured.[/b][/color][/quote]

Damn crazy story man.



One time, I was driving in downtown cincy. I had my windows down, blaring rap music and had smoke coming out of my car. My car wasn't super pimped out or anything, but I'm sure it looked somewhat suspicous. I was pulled over and had really no idea why.

When the officer came to my window he said "I pulled you over because you were driving 10 MPH over the speedlimit"...





What's the common theme between all of our stories? We were pulled over because we weren't following the law, not because you were being racially profiled. I was speeding, Henry did not put on his turn signal, you had a light over your plate out, etc etc etc...

I don't care if he was profiling or not, the man would not have pulled anyone over if they weren't doing something to break the law... end of story.

I do feel that many cops are racist, but let's not pull this whole thing where everyone was innocent and they were just pulled over for the fuck of it.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='KoKaine777' post='491492' date='May 26 2007, 12:15 PM']not a black persons car? hmmm didn't know we all drove the same cars..wonders if I am driving a black persons car or someone elses..will be pissed if I am driving a white car![/quote]


It's not a white bronco is it?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='491635' date='May 26 2007, 09:50 PM']Damn crazy story man.
One time, I was driving in downtown cincy. I had my windows down, blaring rap music and had smoke coming out of my car. My car wasn't super pimped out or anything, but I'm sure it looked somewhat suspicous. I was pulled over and had really no idea why.

When the officer came to my window he said "I pulled you over because you were driving 10 MPH over the speedlimit"...
What's the common theme between all of our stories? We were pulled over because we weren't following the law, not because you were being racially profiled. I was speeding, Henry did not put on his turn signal, you had a light over your plate out, etc etc etc...

I don't care if he was profiling or not, the man would not have pulled anyone over if they weren't doing something to break the law... end of story.

I do feel that many cops are racist, but let's not pull this whole thing where everyone was innocent and they were just pulled over for the fuck of it.[/quote]



i got pulled over just because my license, tags, and plates had expired, oh but it was because i was "speeding" yea, i BET, i was profiled because i didnt "have a valid license" and "didnt register my vehicle properly" ... cmon.. its because i was white and you know it!!!!

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='491638' date='May 26 2007, 10:10 PM']i got pulled over just because my license, tags, and plates had expired, oh but it was because i was "speeding" yea, i BET, i was profiled because i didnt "have a valid license" and "didnt register my vehicle properly" ... cmon.. its because i was white and you know it!!!![/quote]

hmmm... I can't read through the sarcasm to understand your point here.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='491641' date='May 26 2007, 10:27 PM']hmmm... I can't read through the sarcasm to understand your point here.[/quote]



just sarcasm, no point at all...

[DanvilleBengal]

If there is any profiling that is going on, it's because of stereotypes. And like someone earlier said, law enforcement has to be effeicient in how they find wrongdoers, and that does imply profiling.

I haven't been pulled over, arrested, or interrogated by authorities in any way---save for a time that I forgot to pay for gas and drove off, but I remembered to turn around and go back, and the attendant and me have a good laugh about it----so I don't have the proper perspective to comment deeply on this subject. All I have to say is that regardless of whether it was wrong or not, henry made his bed with serveral other incidents.

As for that Edmonton fellow, he needed to keep his yap shut. Public office means you have a responsibility to not blab shit that don't need to be in the publick domain. I hope he gets disciplined for it.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='491643' date='May 26 2007, 10:36 PM']If there is any profiling that is going on, it's because of stereotypes. And like someone earlier said, law enforcement has to be effeicient in how they find wrongdoers, and that does imply profiling.
[b]
I haven't been pulled over, arrested, or interrogated by authorities in any way[/b]---save for a time that I forgot to pay for gas and drove off, but I remembered to turn around and go back, and the attendant and me have a good laugh about it----so I don't have the proper perspective to comment deeply on this subject. All I have to say is that regardless of whether it was wrong or not, henry made his bed with serveral other incidents.

As for that Edmonton fellow, he needed to keep his yap shut. Public office means you have a responsibility to not blab shit that don't need to be in the publick domain. I hope he gets disciplined for it.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Danville if you lived here around Cincinnati for a while, believe me you'd understand where I was coming from.

Obviously, the community where you live now just dont pull people over just because of racial profiling, thats probably
why you rarley have interaction with the police. As far as the incident where you forgot to pay for the gas, I bet that did
not happen here in Cincinnati.

Because if it did, the gas station attendant and the police would not have been cool about it.
[/b][/color]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='ONYX' post='491727' date='May 27 2007, 02:00 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Danville if you lived here around Cincinnati for a while, believe me you'd understand where I was coming from.

Obviously, the community where you live now just dont pull people over just because of racial profiling, thats probably
why you rarley have interaction with the police. As far as the incident where you forgot to pay for the gas, I bet that did
not happen here in Cincinnati.

Because if it did, the gas station attendant and the police would not have been cool about it.
[/b][/color][/quote]


The city of Danville is literally mayberry.









Hi Danville

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='sneaky' post='491727' date='May 27 2007, 02:00 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Danville if you lived here around Cincinnati for a while, believe me you'd understand where I was coming from.

Obviously, the community where you live now just dont pull people over just because of racial profiling, thats probably
why you rarley have interaction with the police. As far as the incident where you forgot to pay for the gas, I bet that did
not happen here in Cincinnati.

Because if it did, the gas station attendant and the police would not have been cool about it.
[/b][/color][/quote]


sneaky, is it possible you assume racism is a factor when most likely it's not? When the same things happen to many of us, do you just assume we're lying or exaggerating?

If you're making $60,000 a year at 33 years old in what you see as a racist, oppressive city, I'd say you're doing alright. I'm white, 15 years older than you and I have never, and probably never will make that much money. I think the black man is keeping me down.

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='491735' date='May 27 2007, 03:08 PM']ONYX, is it possible you assume racism is a factor when most likely it's not? When the same things happen to many of us, do you just assume we're lying or exaggerating?

If you're making $60,000 a year at 33 years old in what you see as a racist, oppressive city, I'd say you're doing alright. I'm white, 15 years older than you and I have never, and probably never will make that much money. I think the black man is keeping me down. [/quote]

... Word?


Don't break the law and you won't get pulled over.

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='491739' date='May 27 2007, 03:39 PM']... Word?
Don't break the law and you won't get pulled over.[/quote]

I'm not saying that. Again, I've been pulled over when I wasn't breaking the law.

I'm saying if you get pulled over, don't assume it's because you're black and the cop is racist. Could that be the case? Of course, but that doesn't mean it is. Maybe the cop is gay and he thinks you look gay, so he wants to meet you.

[|Bunghole|]

I thought Onyx lived in NYC?

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='491744' date='May 27 2007, 09:06 PM']I thought sneaky lived in NYC?
[/quote]
Nope. I was headed to visit him right after visiting you...


... if only BA hadn't lost my fucking luggage

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='491735' date='May 27 2007, 03:08 PM']sneaky, is it possible you assume racism is a factor when most likely it's not? When the same things happen to many of us, do you just assume we're lying or exaggerating?

If you're making $60,000 a year at 33 years old in what you see as a racist, oppressive city, I'd say you're doing alright. I'm white, 15 years older than you and I have never, and probably never will make that much money. I think the black man is keeping me down. [/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I have not seriously assumed or implied that anyone here is lying or exaggerating about their personal experiences.

I also did not state that Cincinnati is "oppressive". How much I make or what I do for a living has nothing to do
with racial profiling. The main reason I told you guys how much I made, is the point to the irony, that even though
I can afford to buy things in expensive stores or things in cheap stores, it does not matter to store security because
to them, my skin color makes me a prime suspect to shoplift.

Same thing goes for the police. When racial profiling goes on, a respectable businessman is just as much of a
suspect as a thug who sells on street corners if their skin color is the same.

Oh stop, I might make more money than you (for now) but I can promise you, that whatever you make is more
money than what 80% of other black folk make that live in your region.
[/b][/color]
[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='491739' date='May 27 2007, 03:39 PM']... Word?
Don't break the law and you won't get pulled over.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]If I was breaking the law or was doing something seriously wrong when I get pulled over, why dont
I get at least cited for it. All the examples that I talked about such as crooked licsense plate stickers,
are red herrings used so that the cops can stop me and check me out because I am black.

Look at this way. I dont break the law, I dont do anything wrong because I am mature and
know better. Yet, I still get pulled over many times. Now plug in that kid that is not as mature
and does not know better. Because he is targeted by his race, he is bound to get caught sooner
or later.

Is that kid's race the only race guilty of breaking the law. Of course not. But because his race is a
prime target, his lifestyle must be more righteous than any of his peers who are different races, because it is
his race that is the target.

When you think about it, this in essence, explains why the ratio of arrests to the population of minorities
are disproportionately high.
[/b][/color]
[quote name='BengalBacker' post='491741' date='May 27 2007, 03:51 PM']I'm not saying that. Again, I've been pulled over when I wasn't breaking the law.

I'm saying if you get pulled over, don't assume it's because you're black and the cop is racist. Could that be the case? Of course, but that doesn't mean it is. [b]Maybe the cop is gay and he thinks you look gay, so he wants to meet you.[/b]
[/quote]



[quote name='Bunghole' post='491744' date='May 27 2007, 04:06 PM']I thought sneaky lived in NYC?
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Nope, wrong negro. Bengal Smoov lives in NYC.[/b][/color]

[Guest ONYX]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I also want to point out that profiling of any kind, ultimately is a racket ran by communities and law enforcement.
Poor whites, blacks and Hispanics have been and always will be a target for the police. This country's
justice system is set up so that impoverished people can not afford adequate legal representation.

Instead they are forced to have public defenders that do not benefit from a lengthy legal process.

Ultimately, these public defenders persuade their clients to take plea bargains. Plea bargains that
result in unaffordable fines or time spent in jail but rarely do the cases go to court. The defendants
choose the latter. This outcome is a financial profit to local and state branches of law enforcement.

Have you ever noticed how this process is vastly different when wealthy people get charged with
the same things?

If the prosecutor determines that the suspect is capable of affording a sufficient legal defense, he more
often than not drops the charges and the case is thrown out. Not because these people are innocent but
because it would cost his (the prosecutor's) community money to present a case that would go to court.

No easy profitable plea bargains resulting in big fines or jail time, so the prosecutor says "fuck it".

In a nutshell, that's how justice and law enforcement in America works.

It's a business. And like most businesses, if certain people can be exploited to net huge profits, then
those people are fucked.

[/b][/color]

[Actium]

[quote name='sneaky' post='491752' date='May 27 2007, 04:35 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I also want to point out that profiling of any kind, ultimately is a racket ran by communities and law enforcement.
Poor whites, blacks and Hispanics have been and always will be a target for the police. This country's
justice system is set up so that impoverished people can not afford adequate legal representation.

Instead they are forced to have public defenders that do not benefit from a lengthy legal process.

Ultimately, these public defenders persuade their clients to take plea bargains. Plea bargains that
result in unaffordable fines or time spent in jail but rarely do the cases go to court. The defendants
choose the latter. This outcome is a financial profit to local and state branches of law enforcement.

Have you ever noticed how this process is vastly different when wealthy people get charged with
the same things?

If the prosecutor determines that the suspect is capable of affording a sufficient legal defense, he more
often than not drops the charges and the case is thrown out. Not because these people are innocent but
because it would cost his (the prosecutor's) community money to present a case that would go to court.

No easy profitable plea bargains resulting in big fines or jail time, so the prosecutor says "fuck it".

In a nutshell, that's how justice and law enforcement in America works.

It's a business. And like most businesses, if certain people can be exploited to net huge profits, then
those people are fucked.

[/b][/color][/quote]

So what's your solution to fix it? Not too long ago people didn't even have public defenders. And I know some public defenders--there are good people and are not out to exploit the poor man while laughingly lighting a cigar with a $100 bill.

the real problem is, most of the people who are arrested actually committed the crime. And the evidence is overwhelming. That makes defending them pretty hard.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Actium' post='491759' date='May 27 2007, 06:22 PM']So what's your solution to fix it? Not too long ago people didn't even have public defenders. And I know some public defenders--there are good people and are not out to exploit the poor man while laughingly lighting a cigar with a $100 bill.

the real problem is, most of the people who are arrested actually committed the crime. And the evidence is overwhelming. That makes defending them pretty hard.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]The solutions are simple but it serves no benefit to the current way things are run in this country.

If you look at all the communities in this country that are plagued with crime, they all have the same
common issues.

_No good jobs around and no infrastructure developed that would attract new businesses to come in.

_Poor funding or poor management for the funding of it's public schools.

_Establishments such as markets and pony kegs with liquor licsenses are plentiful.


These are the primary ingredients needed to create a crime infested hot bed. The logical solution
if America was serious about curbing crime is to put restrictions on welfare and public assistance,
pump more money into the area's schools and if the schools funds are being mismanaged, remove
or prosecute the people that are mismanaging these funds. Set up infrastructures that would encourage
new businesses to come in and give those businesses huge tax breaks for hiring local residents. Put
restrictions on liquor licsenses to clubs, bars or establishments that want to do business in areas that
already have a history of high crime volumes.

But doing that would cost lots of money. It is much easier and profitable to just deal with the result of crime as opposed
to trying to stem the cause of crime.[/b][/color]

[Guest ONYX]

[color="#FF0000"][b]When police use profiling, are they actually protecting the community from
crime or are they just trying to catch individuals who look a certain way that may or may not
be doing something illegal?

When the police pull over someone who looks like Chris Henry because that person did
not use a turning signal, does it make you any safer?

Isn't possible that if energy and resources are spent to profile one type of person, that another
type of person could easily do the same kind of crime or worse?[/b][/color]

[Actium]

[quote name='sneaky' post='491777' date='May 27 2007, 07:44 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]The solutions are simple but it serves no benefit to the current way things are run in this country.

If you look at all the communities in this country that are plagued with crime, they all have the same
common issues.

_No good jobs around and no infrastructure developed that would attract new businesses to come in.

_Poor funding or poor management for the funding of it's public schools.

_Establishments such as markets and pony kegs with liquor licsenses are plentiful.
These are the primary ingredients needed to create a crime infested hot bed. The logical solution
if America was serious about curbing crime is to put restrictions on welfare and public assistance,
pump more money into the area's schools and if the schools funds are being mismanaged, remove
or prosecute the people that are mismanaging these funds. Set up infrastructures that would encourage
new businesses to come in and give those businesses huge tax breaks for hiring local residents. Put
restrictions on liquor licsenses to clubs, bars or establishments that want to do business in areas that
already have a history of high crime volumes.

But doing that would cost lots of money. It is much easier and profitable to just deal with the result of crime as opposed
to trying to stem the cause of crime.[/b][/color][/quote]

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's possible to eliminate the status of the poor from society, no matter how many programs are put in place. Also with regard to schools, throwing money at them doesn't always result in better education--the students have to want to learn.

I believe that more emphasis should be placed on vocational education in addition to academics.

Crime will always exist. The ultimate cause of crime in human frailty. But some of the suggestions you make could potentially help to reduce crime, or perhaps to prevent it from concentrating/

[rudi32]

ok, for almost a week I have been silent on this. but as a police officer in the cincinnati area I will give my opinion.

First, every police ofc that I know voted AGAINST ed for county prosecutor, many people wanted him out, way prior to anything Henry related. All that can be looked up through fop websites, (ref endorsements), cause he didnt get ours.

next, racial profiling. To me its BS. I have stoped thousands of cars, and what amazes me is that I get the "you stopped me because I am (insert anything)'

this is total BS.

I want people like sneaky to go to the Cincy PD, and do a 'ride along' in district one on a saturday night. I am serious. I ask you to do this because It will change your life, or at least the way you see police.

See at my pd we have tons of riders. I love it when I get another race, etc to ride with me...why? So I can help get rid of their wrong ideas. I was sitting one day with an older male black rider. Im in my 30s and he was in his 50s. we were talking while I was running stationary radar. I tried something. I said, "I want you to tell me the color of the driver of every car that passes us while we are running radar.' He looked at me kinda funny. He tried but after a few minutes stated "I cant tell if its a green alien driving the car" I laughed and said, see when police pull over a minority they screem racial profiling, but the fact is, especially at night (100%), that you cant tell the race, sex, religion etc of the driver when you pull out to stop them. An officer Doesnt know until he walks up to the car and makes contact.

All I am saying is, you guys don't do the job, so its easy to monday morning crap all day. But see it from our point of view and your perspective might change.

sneaky, I feel sry for you man if you get pulled over alot, but it sounds like you havent been getting any thickets or 'falsely' accused of stuff, but I do hope you have better luck in the future....in the mean time, dont speed and get your registration taken care of,..lol


I hope this helped shead so light .

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Actium' post='491782' date='May 27 2007, 09:18 PM']I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's possible to eliminate the status of the poor from society, no matter how many programs are put in place.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I am well aware that crime and poverty cannot be totally eliminated but one day before I die, I would like to
see this country at least try to eliminate at least some of it.[/b][/color]

[quote]Also with regard to schools, throwing money at them doesn't always result in better education--the students have to want to learn.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I find this line of thinking to be such a cop out considering that there has never been any serious effort on a national
level to financially support public schools in low income communities. Also I find it interesting that it is always supported to
spend money on schools in upper level income and well-to-do neighborhoods, but when poor kids are concerned,
people become a lot more skeptical and the same kind of funding is viewed as "throwing money at them".

I'm not attacking your opinion personally, I'm just speaking in general terms.[/b][/color]

[quote]I believe that more emphasis should be placed on vocational education in addition to academics.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Thats a good idea, but that will cost money......know whatta I mean?[/b][/color]

[quote]Crime will always exist. The ultimate cause of crime in human frailty. But some of the suggestions you make could potentially help to reduce crime, or perhaps to prevent it from concentrating/[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Agreed.[/b][/color]

[Guest Bengals1181]

rudi32, what is your opinion on Marvin's comments?



I still beleive he meant his players were being profiled as being Bengals, not being profiled because of race.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='rudi32' post='491792' date='May 27 2007, 09:39 PM']ok, for almost a week I have been silent on this. but as a police officer in the cincinnati area I will give my opinion.

First, every police ofc that I know voted AGAINST ed for county prosecutor, many people wanted him out, way prior to anything Henry related. All that can be looked up through fop websites, (ref endorsements), cause he didnt get ours.

next, racial profiling. To me its BS. I have stoped thousands of cars, and what amazes me is that I get the "you stopped me because I am (insert anything)'

this is total BS.

I want people like sneaky to go to the Cincy PD, and do a 'ride along' in district one on a saturday night. I am serious. I ask you to do this because It will change your life, or at least the way you see police.

See at my pd we have tons of riders. I love it when I get another race, etc to ride with me...why? So I can help get rid of their wrong ideas. I was sitting one day with an older male black rider. Im in my 30s and he was in his 50s. we were talking while I was running stationary radar. I tried something. I said, "I want you to tell me the color of the driver of every car that passes us while we are running radar.' He looked at me kinda funny. He tried but after a few minutes stated "I cant tell if its a green alien driving the car" I laughed and said, see when police pull over a minority they screem racial profiling, but the fact is, especially at night (100%), that you cant tell the race, sex, religion etc of the driver when you pull out to stop them. An officer Doesnt know until he walks up to the car and makes contact.

All I am saying is, you guys don't do the job, so its easy to monday morning crap all day. But see it from our point of view and your perspective might change.

sneaky, I feel sry for you man if you get pulled over alot, but it sounds like you havent been getting any thickets or 'falsely' accused of stuff, but I do hope you have better luck in the future....in the mean time, dont speed and get your registration taken care of,..lol
I hope this helped shead so light .[/quote]

[b][color="#FF0000"]Rudi32,

The example you posted is when you are clocking somebody on radar and if they are speeding, it does not
matter what color they are. That is not the scnenarios that I am talking about. The scenarios in which I am
describing is when the police officers are well aware of the drivers' race before they stop them via visual
identification or running a licsense plate through[/color][/b]

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='ONYX' post='491752' date='May 27 2007, 05:35 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I also want to point out that profiling of any kind, ultimately is a racket ran by communities and law enforcement.
Poor whites, blacks and Hispanics have been and always will be a target for the police. This country's
justice system is set up so that impoverished people can not afford adequate legal representation.

[/b][/color][/quote]

give me a fucking break...


I can't read anymore of this fucking bullshit.

[Actium]

[quote name='sneaky' post='491799' date='May 27 2007, 09:36 PM'][I find this line of thinking to be such a cop out considering that there has never been any serious effort on a national
level to financially support public schools in low income communities. Also I find it interesting that it is always supported to
spend money on schools in upper level income and well-to-do neighborhoods, but when poor kids are concerned,
people become a lot more skeptical and the same kind of funding is viewed as "throwing money at them".

I'm not attacking your opinion personally, I'm just speaking in general terms.[/quote]

I attended Lorain City Schools, which had to close several schools because of lack of funding. They were listed in "Academic Emergency" because of the extremely high rate of failure of proficiency exams. The percentage going to college wasn't all that high. The schools were not well funded and were nothing special. But teachers there genuinely cared. The students who wanted to learn, did.

But ultimately the problems we in society face are so interconnected that meaningful change is extremely difficult. It would take a level of reform that is not really possible in the current political system. I think that's what you've been saying all along. In that case, I agree with you.