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Buckeyes Against a Nation


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[quote]Buckeyes against a nation

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
November 6, 2007





TUSCALOOSA, Ala. – As they drank away the hours to kickoff Saturday at the Legacy Bar just off campus here, fans of Alabama and Louisiana State couldn't agree on much.

There was the argument over whose coach sucked more, whether putting purple in houndstooth was sacrilegious and even which fans smelled more like corndogs (insider SEC joke). Considering the tales of fist fights all over town the night before, these arguments were not for the faint of heart.

It wasn't until a television showed Wisconsin taking a 17-10 lead on Ohio State that everyone – at least everyone who didn't have money on the game – found some common ground.

"Ohio State is a joke," one guy said. "Let 'em play a real schedule."

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Meet your Ohio State Buckeyes, the top-ranked and perhaps most-doubted team in America (now that BC is finished).

Ten weeks and 10 victories into the season – not a single one remotely in doubt (they'd rally to hammer Wisconsin 38-17) – and the Buckeyes are so questioned they can even bring the Tigers and the Tide together.

No one seems capable of getting over Ohio State's title game performance against Florida last season or the weakness of its league this year.

So all OSU does is win, and all the rest of America does is doubt. All Jim Tressel's team does is show up on Saturday focused, prepared and fully motivated, and all everyone does is complain about the competition.

Not just here in the South, but out West where Oregon frets about being left out again, and on the Plains where three top six teams prepare for a battle royal that may mean nothing.

The Buckeyes, to so many, are just a product of a breeze of a schedule, which is essentially true, yet misses the point.

There is little question Ohio State is set to waltz into its second consecutive BCS title game via the easiest road imaginable. The Buckeyes haven't beaten a top-line team thus far and the only quality opponent remaining is Michigan, which lost at home to both a I-AA team and No. 3 Oregon, by 32 points.

Not even the Big Ten's angry, letter-writing commissioner can dream up a defense.

None of which addresses some simple points. First, the Buckeyes just might be really good – as in championship good – anyway. Second, how is it their fault? What exactly do you want Tressel and his head-strong, ultra-consistent, take-care-of-business team to do?

Ohio State may be the beneficiaries of a bottomed-out Big Ten, but it wasn't the Buckeyes who bottomed it out. If rival fans in rival conferences want to place blame on Ohio State skating to New Orleans, then blame Joe Paterno or Lloyd Carr or Joe Tiller.

Or blame your own commissioners for signing off on a championship system that rewards weak schedules and punishes difficult ones. Blame the apologists who sell the idea that the entire season is a playoff, even if not everyone has to face playoff caliber competition.

But don't blame Ohio State. They line 'em up and beat 'em, a remarkable 28 consecutive regular season games and 20 in a row in conference, a Big Ten record.

It wasn't Ohio State which fell to some middle of the road league opponent the way LSU, Oklahoma, West Virginia and Oregon did.

Tressel's teams just don't lose games they are supposed to win. Each week the Buckeyes live the coaching mantra of taking it one game at a time. Which is how they entered this season with lots of questions but turned it into the inside track on the title game again anyway.

Now, would any of the above mentioned teams also roll through the Buckeyes slate unblemished? Probably. Would Ohio State be exposed in a superior league, where the grind of multiple real challenges is the greatest hurdle? Maybe.

[b]But there's nothing Ohio State can do about any of that. They play in a league that used to be good, should be good again someday[/b], but is lousy right now. The league's signature non-conference victory is probably the Buckeyes over 3-6 Washington. Yeah, it's that bad.

Yes, Ohio State's non-conference slate was an abomination. As one fan pointed out on a message board, the helmets of its first four opponents spelled Y-A-W-N (Youngstown, Akron, Washington and Northwestern). And they played Kent State, too.

That said, Ohio State completed a home and home with Texas last year and is about to start one with Southern California. It kind of got caught in the middle this year.

And since neither the BCS formula nor the voters seem to care, why should Ohio State? It's just beating the system the way it beats up on its league, with shocking, mocking ease.

Still, all over America, fans are bristling, angry and united. By far the weakest of the BCS leagues is about to deliver the Buckeyes back to the title game, virtually untested.

You can understand the frustration. But they can also underestimate Ohio State at their own risk.

Because after all the unity and hi-fives at the Legacy Bar about how justice would be an Ohio State loss, the Buckeyes unleashed 28 unanswered points to overwhelm Wisconsin. It was a show of force &ndahs; a potent offense to go with a physical defense – if anyone was still paying attention.

Yes, the Big Ten and the BCS might stink, but that doesn't necessarily mean Ohio State does, too.[/quote]


Also, not that I'm claiming that the Big Ten is stronger than the SEC, but why does the SEC get credit for being balanced when everyone beats each other up, but the Big Ten does not? The Big Ten is going to have 7, maybe 8, teams win 7 games this season, but not many high ranked ones because they are beating each other. By comparison, the SEC wil likely have 9. Not much difference.

For that matter, the Big Ten currently has six 7 win teams. The SEC by comparison, only has three at the moment.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='588675' date='Nov 7 2007, 09:23 PM'][url="http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Au6cv58SOZH25tRCl1WElyE5nYcB?slug=dw-ohiostate110607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns"]http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Au...o&type=lgns[/url]





Also, not that I'm claiming that the Big Ten is stronger than the SEC, but why does the SEC get credit for being balanced when everyone beats each other up, but the Big Ten does not? The Big Ten is going to have 7, maybe 8, teams win 7 games this season, but not many high ranked ones because they are beating each other. By comparison, the SEC wil likely have 9. Not much difference.

For that matter, the Big Ten currently has six 7 win teams. The SEC by comparison, only has three at the moment.[/quote]


[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='588679' date='Nov 7 2007, 09:30 PM']To put is succinctly...

The SEC can suck my BIG TEN.

:wave:[/quote]
You two are knuckleheads...

Go look at the teams Tennessee has played. 5 teams ranked 25 or higher, 1 still to go...

Go look at the teams Florida has played. 5 teams ranked 25 or higher...

Go look at the teams Georgia has played. 4 team ranked 25 or higher, with 2 to go...

Go look at the teams LSU has played. 6 teams ranked 18 or higher...

Go look at the teams Alabama has played. 3 teams ranked 25 or higher, with 1 to go...

Go look at the teams Auburn has played. 3 teams ranked 25 or higher, with 2 to go...


To say these teams in the Big Ten have 7 wins proves the point. 7 wins can be achieved very easily when you don't play a single 25 team...

Ohio State has played 2, one ranked 20, the other 25. I would love for Ohio State to have to play SEC schools week after week. It is hard to get up every week for a top 25 opponent - just ask LSU. Kentucky was a let down game for them since they had Florida the week before and Auburn the week after. It is just a lot to ask.

The SEC stuck a BIG TEN right up your ass this past January... 41-14...


And, steggyD - yes I would love a 16 team playoff - and I would love for teams to get more credit for playing ranked opponents - even in a loss. It would get teams to schedule ranked opponents more and make better regular season, out of conference games.

A good loss (say 7 or less to a top 25 or 20 opponent) should carry more weight than a big win over a chump team.

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='589300' date='Nov 8 2007, 02:59 PM']You two are knuckleheads...

Go look at the teams Tennessee has played. 5 teams ranked 25 or higher, 1 still to go...

Go look at the teams Florida has played. 5 teams ranked 25 or higher...

Go look at the teams Georgia has played. 4 team ranked 25 or higher, with 2 to go...

Go look at the teams LSU has played. 6 teams ranked 18 or higher...

Go look at the teams Alabama has played. 3 teams ranked 25 or higher, with 1 to go...

Go look at the teams Auburn has played. 3 teams ranked 25 or higher, with 2 to go...


To say these teams in the Big Ten have 7 wins proves the point. 7 wins can be achieved very easily when you don't play a single 25 team...

Ohio State has played 2, one ranked 20, the other 25. I would love for Ohio State to have to play SEC schools week after week. It is hard to get up every week for a top 25 opponent - just ask LSU. Kentucky was a let down game for them since they had Florida the week before and Auburn the week after. It is just a lot to ask.

The SEC stuck a BIG TEN right up your ass this past January... 41-14...


And, steggyD - yes I would love a 16 team playoff - and I would love for teams to get more credit for playing ranked opponents - even in a loss. It would get teams to schedule ranked opponents more and make better regular season, out of conference games.

A good loss (say 7 or less to a top 25 or 20 opponent) should carry more weight than a big win over a chump team.[/quote]


did you miss the part where I said I don't think the Big Ten is better than the SEC? OSU would have their hands full in the SEC. Plus, conference schedule aside, I'm willing to bet that in MOST years, Ohio State plays tougher out-of-conference games than most SEC teams. You don't see SEC teams scheduling games with the likes of Texas, USC, Washington, Washington State, Virginia Tech, and Oklahoma.


Plus, of those ranked teams that the SEC teams are playing, how many of them are from outside of the SEC? While I think the SEC is the best conference, I'm also willing to bet that quite a few of their teams get overhyped because they are from the SEC.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='588675' date='Nov 7 2007, 08:23 PM'][url="http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Au6cv58SOZH25tRCl1WElyE5nYcB?slug=dw-ohiostate110607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns"]http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Au...o&type=lgns[/url]





Also, not that I'm claiming that the Big Ten is stronger than the SEC, but why does the SEC get credit for being balanced when everyone beats each other up, but the Big Ten does not? The Big Ten is going to have 7, maybe 8, teams win 7 games this season, but not many high ranked ones because they are beating each other. By comparison, the SEC wil likely have 9. Not much difference.

For that matter, the Big Ten currently has six 7 win teams. The SEC by comparison, only has three at the moment.[/quote]

I hate the SEC. They have parity within, and yet no one seems to comment when they leave the conference and get beat up. Pretty much every conference is weak except for 1 or 2 teams. The SEC has the rep otherwise but is really not that much different.
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[quote name='steggyD' post='589427' date='Nov 8 2007, 03:41 PM']You mean the way that SEC was beaten up in the Bowl game last year?


Oh wait.[/quote]

florida's 2nd national championship. They still have a ways to go. No conference is dominant.

They all have about 2 good teams. they SEC is just especially annoying about pretending otherwise.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='589300' date='Nov 8 2007, 07:59 PM']You two are knuckleheads...

Go look at the teams Tennessee has played. 5 teams ranked 25 or higher, 1 still to go...

Go look at the teams Florida has played. 5 teams ranked 25 or higher...

Go look at the teams Georgia has played. 4 team ranked 25 or higher, with 2 to go...

Go look at the teams LSU has played. 6 teams ranked 18 or higher...

Go look at the teams Alabama has played. 3 teams ranked 25 or higher, with 1 to go...

Go look at the teams Auburn has played. 3 teams ranked 25 or higher, with 2 to go...


To say these teams in the Big Ten have 7 wins proves the point. 7 wins can be achieved very easily when you don't play a single 25 team...

Ohio State has played 2, one ranked 20, the other 25. I would love for Ohio State to have to play SEC schools week after week. It is hard to get up every week for a top 25 opponent - just ask LSU. Kentucky was a let down game for them since they had Florida the week before and Auburn the week after. It is just a lot to ask.

The SEC stuck a BIG TEN right up your ass this past January... 41-14...


And, steggyD - yes I would love a 16 team playoff - and I would love for teams to get more credit for playing ranked opponents - even in a loss. It would get teams to schedule ranked opponents more and make better regular season, out of conference games.

A good loss (say 7 or less to a top 25 or 20 opponent) should carry more weight than a big win over a chump team.[/quote]

It was a joke ;)

It's based off a t-shirt I saw at FSU when UVa played there in 95. The shirts they were wearing said "the SEC can kiss my ACC". I thought it was hilarious, and just added my own twist.

I would love to see OSU play in the SEC too. So they could kick UT's ass every season for the next 20 years -_-

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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='589350' date='Nov 8 2007, 03:48 PM']did you miss the part where I said I don't think the Big Ten is better than the SEC? OSU would have their hands full in the SEC. Plus, conference schedule aside, I'm willing to bet that in MOST years, Ohio State plays tougher out-of-conference games than most SEC teams. You don't see SEC teams scheduling games with the likes of Texas, USC, Washington, Washington State, Virginia Tech, and Oklahoma.


Plus, of those ranked teams that the SEC teams are playing, how many of them are from outside of the SEC? While I think the SEC is the best conference, I'm also willing to bet that quite a few of their teams get overhyped because they are from the SEC.[/quote]
I agree to an extent. But when you're playing 5-6 ranked teams out of 8 league games alone what more do you want? Tennessee has played home and homes with Cal, Miami (the U), Notre Dame, UCLA, just to name a few over the last few years.

[quote name='Actium' post='589551' date='Nov 8 2007, 08:10 PM']florida's 2nd national championship. They still have a ways to go. No conference is dominant.

They all have about 2 good teams. they SEC is just especially annoying about pretending otherwise.[/quote]
Actium - I usually agree with a lot of your opinions... I don't here.

Some facts since the BCS system came into play starting in 98:

National Championships:
ACC - 1
Big 12 - 2
Big East - 1 (while Miami was in it)
Big 10 - 1
Pac 10 - 1
SEC - 3

Overall BCS Game records:
ACC - 1-8 .111 winning %
Big 12 - 5-7 .417 winning %
Big East - 5-4 .555 winning %
Big 10 - 8-7 .533 winning %
Pac 10 - 7-4 .637 winning %
SEC - 9-4 .692 winning %

I'll let that speak for itself.


[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='589558' date='Nov 8 2007, 08:50 PM']It was a joke ;)

It's based off a t-shirt I saw at FSU when UVa played there in 95. The shirts they were wearing said "the SEC can kiss my ACC". I thought it was hilarious, and just added my own twist.

I would love to see OSU play in the SEC too. So they could kick UT's ass every season for the next 20 years -_-[/quote]
Gotcha. Good enough. Just hadn't seen those shirts. No harm done.

OSU beating UT - just like the last time they played down in the Citrus Bowl, right?

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[quote name='Actium' post='589551' date='Nov 8 2007, 07:10 PM']florida's 2nd national championship. They still have a ways to go. No conference is dominant.

They all have about 2 good teams. they SEC is just especially annoying about pretending otherwise.[/quote]



[quote][size=5][b]Deeper look shows SEC not so super [/b][/size]
Sunday, November 4, 2007
Rick Bozich



Don't some of these chowder heads in the media make you want to go Mike Gundy on them sometimes? Don't you wonder if they go all year without setting back their clocks?

Football teams from the mighty Southeastern Conference have played 10 nonconference games this season against opponents from the five other Bowl Championship Series leagues.

If you look at The Associated Press Top 25 poll, where SEC teams occupy seven of the top 24 spots (29 percent), you'd think that SEC teams have won at least seven of those games.

If you listen to SEC assistant commissioner Colin Cowherd of ESPN radio, you'd guess the SEC was at least 9-1.

And if you read some comments made last week by other folks who cover the SEC, you'd say that the SEC hasn't lost a nonconference game since Bear Bryant was a cub. An article in The Plain Dealer out of Cleveland polled media guys who follow SEC football. The suggestion was that a BCS title game that did not include an SEC team would be, well, unwatchable.



Take off your houndstooth cap and guess again.

Here is the mighty SEC's record in those 10 games against teams from other BCS leagues:

Five wins.

Five losses.

[b]No evidence of greatness[/b]
I don't have a math degree from Ole Miss, but I'd guess that would qualify as average. I wasn't on the debate team at Auburn, but I'm prepared to argue there isn't one great league this season. There are a number of very good leagues.

Yes, the SEC is one of them. It might prove it's the best during bowl season -- as it did last year. I haven't forgotten last season.

But nothing that has happened during this regular season convinces me the SEC stands alone. I really struggle to understand why a two-loss SEC team would deserve to play for the national title simply because it has to beat teams such as Mississippi State or Vanderbilt every week .

If you're ranking the six BCS leagues by their records in games against other BCS leagues, the SEC sits third -- behind the Pacific-10 (5-3) and Big Ten (5-4). The Big East and Atlantic Coast conferences are 7-8. The Big 12 is 5-6.

Looks awfully balanced to me, especially during a season where parity has been the flavor of the year.

[b]Good win, bad losses[/b]
Would somebody please explain how 5-5 translates to seven spots in the top 24 when no other league has more than four? And a really solid league like the Pac-10 has three?

I know the answer: Because it's the mighty SEC, the league with the largest crowds, highest-ranked recruits, highest-paid coaches, the most laudatory TV coverage -- and, typically, the most schools on NCAA probation. Oops.

Now let's roll videotape from some results.

Here is the SEC's one quality nonconference victory: Louisiana State 48, Virginia Tech 7. That was a big-time win.

Here is the SEC's one nonconference road victory against a team from another BCS conference: South Carolina 21, North Carolina 15. Dazzled? I'm not.

Three of the SEC's five losses to teams from other BCS leagues have been by two touchdowns or more.

Tennessee traveled to California. I applaud Phil Fulmer. Most SEC coaches would invite the Internal Revenue Service to audit their summer camps before they'd play a quality opponent on the road.

What happened to the Vols is what happens to most teams when they play a quality opponent on the road -- they lost 45-31. Just as Mississippi State, winners against Auburn and Kentucky, got smacked by West Virginia.

Nice league, the SEC. But not nice enough to have seven of the top 24 teams in the country.[/quote]



[url="http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071104/COLUMNISTS01/711040736/1002/SPORTS"]http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.d...736/1002/SPORTS[/url]
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[quote name='oldschooler' post='589716' date='Nov 9 2007, 03:18 PM'][url="http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071104/COLUMNISTS01/711040736/1002/SPORTS"]http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.d...736/1002/SPORTS[/url][/quote]
nice read. a fresh look at what's going on, and some facts to actually back it up.
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I would agree that this year the SEC is down, a little. I'm not going to argue that point. But, I don't see any other conference jumping out in the supposed "power conference vacuum"? Do you? It is funny though that you pull the article from Louisville home of the Cardinals that got beat by Kentucky, an SEC school...

Losing to Cal, on the road, in game one of the season isn't necessarily embarrassing as I see it.

I'll say again - what "quality" opponents has Ohio State, or anyone in the Big Ten, played either at home or on the road?

Youngstown State
Akron
Washington
Northwestern
Minnesota
Purdue ranked #20
Kent State
Michigan State
Penn State ranked #25
Wisconsin
Illinois
Michigan

I'll give you Washington because it was on the road although they weren't ranked, at all, and are 3-6 thus far...
Purdue, Penn State are both good wins. Wisconsin would have been had 2 of their 3 big offensive weapons not been out hurt.

Michigan has fought back from losing to Appy St. and taking a 32 point beating, at home, to Oregon. Oregon appears to be a good team so I'll even count that as a quality game.


I guess we'll all just agree to disagree but to dispute the SEC as the premier college football conference year in and year out is just ludicrous... yes, they'll have down years, but I say again - I don't see any other conference grabbing the torch and taking it this year, do you?

Even the forever OSU homer and favored son, Kirk Herbstreit has said as much on the broadcasts he's done. You can't deny what a former OSU player, and QB at that, says, can you? :P

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='589750' date='Nov 9 2007, 11:21 AM']I would agree that this year the SEC is down, a little. I'm not going to argue that point. But, I don't see any other conference jumping out in the supposed "power conference vacuum"? Do you? It is funny though that you pull the article from Louisville home of the Cardinals that got beat by Kentucky, an SEC school...

Losing to Cal, on the road, in game one of the season isn't necessarily embarrassing as I see it.

I'll say again - what "quality" opponents has Ohio State, or anyone in the Big Ten, played either at home or on the road?

Youngstown State
Akron
Washington
Northwestern
Minnesota
Purdue ranked #20
Kent State
Michigan State
Penn State ranked #25
Wisconsin
Illinois
Michigan

I'll give you Washington because it was on the road although they weren't ranked, at all, and are 3-6 thus far...
Purdue, Penn State are both good wins. Wisconsin would have been had 2 of their 3 big offensive weapons not been out hurt.

Michigan has fought back from losing to Appy St. and taking a 32 point beating, at home, to Oregon. Oregon appears to be a good team so I'll even count that as a quality game.


I guess we'll all just agree to disagree but to dispute the SEC as the premier college football conference year in and year out is just ludicrous... yes, they'll have down years, but I say again - I don't see any other conference grabbing the torch and taking it this year, do you?

Even the forever OSU homer and favored son, Kirk Herbstreit has said as much on the broadcasts he's done. You can't deny what a former OSU player, and QB at that, says, can you? :P[/quote]


lol you seem to be getting awfully defensive.

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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='589755' date='Nov 9 2007, 11:28 AM']lol you seem to be getting awfully defensive.[/quote]
No - just bringing a little fact into the argument. I know most folks here don't like to see those but, as Marvin says:

"It is what it is"...

But, I guess with Illinios winning Saturday I don't have to hear anymore nonsense about OSU winning the National Championship this year...

[quote name='oldschooler' post='590221' date='Nov 10 2007, 07:01 PM']Two words.

Gardner


Webb[/quote]
Oh, did we switch over to basketball?

I've got three more for you -

Florida

Florida, again!

National Champions that is...

It is all good. I guess nobody is going to change anyone else's mind... :D

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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='591786' date='Nov 12 2007, 08:07 AM']Oh, did we switch over to basketball?

I've got three more for you -

Florida

Florida, again!

National Champions that is...

It is all good. I guess nobody is going to change anyone else's mind... :D[/quote]


He is a UK fan. I could have kept it in football, but the loss to
Gardner-Webb was more painful and recent to him.

And I find it pretty ironic that you mentioned a team
that destroyed your Vols this year 59-20.

I`ve got 4 words for you . . .

California.
Florida.
And Alabama.

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[quote name='oldschooler' post='591890' date='Nov 12 2007, 12:10 PM']He is a UK fan. I could have kept it in football, but the loss to
Gardner-Webb was more painful and recent to him.

And I find it pretty ironic that you mentioned a team
that destroyed your Vols this year 59-20.

I`ve got 4 words for you . . .

California.
Florida.
And Alabama.[/quote]
Thanks old - you're making my point for me...

We can get this thread back on track - we were discussing the Big Ten vs. the SEC and the caliber of team in each league I believe and the non-conference schedule that the Luckeyes, etc. play.

Do a little research for me - what were those teams ranked when the Vols played them? A little hint - add up the rankings at the time we played them of California and Florida and the sum is still less than the highest rated team OSU played... I'm not going to sit here and imply that the Vols are better than any of those teams - although I'd like another shot at California and Alabama. But if we played Florida 10 more times we'd lose 9 of them...

But, whatever floats the Buckeye fans/homers/enthusiasts boats on here...
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='591949' date='Nov 12 2007, 01:02 PM']Thanks old - you're making my point for me...

We can get this thread back on track - we were discussing the Big Ten vs. the SEC and the caliber of team in each league I believe and the non-conference schedule that the Luckeyes, etc. play.

Do a little research for me - what were those teams ranked when the Vols played them? A little hint - add up the rankings at the time we played them of California and Florida and the sum is still less than the highest rated team OSU played... I'm not going to sit here and imply that the Vols are better than any of those teams - although I'd like another shot at California and Alabama. But if we played Florida 10 more times we'd lose 9 of them...

But, whatever floats the Buckeye fans/homers/enthusiasts boats on here...[/quote]


Who cares what teams were ranked when you LOST to them.
Obviously they were over rated.
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[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='591786' date='Nov 12 2007, 02:07 PM']No - just bringing a little fact into the argument. I know most folks here don't like to see those but, as Marvin says:

"It is what it is"...

But, I guess with Illinios winning Saturday I don't have to hear anymore nonsense about OSU winning the National Championship this year...


Oh, did we switch over to basketball?

[b]I've got three more for you -

Florida

Florida, again![/b]

National Champions that is...

It is all good. I guess nobody is going to change anyone else's mind... :D[/quote]
:huh: That's one strange post...

WTF kind of UT fan would EVER brag about UF winning?

There is not a chance in hell I would ever rub someone else's face in it by mentioning meatchicken winning anything.

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[quote name='oldschooler' post='592074' date='Nov 12 2007, 04:03 PM']Who cares what teams were ranked when you LOST to them.
Obviously they were over rated.[/quote]

If you think so... look at the teams those teams lost to. Not chump change - I assure you. But, I say again, we're arguing over something that neither of us is going to concede. You're an Buckeye fan - I'm glad for you. Good luck Saturday - although I wish both teams could lose mutually!!!


[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='592171' date='Nov 12 2007, 07:48 PM']Because you like to see other teams from your conference do well against teams outside of it. It adds to the overall strength of your conference.[/quote]
Exactly - we were in an SEC v Ohio State / Big Ten argument and anytime you can point out success from a team within your conference it makes your conference stronger.
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